Installing 6.5" speakers in front kicks

[Paul_540i]

Those of you who've done it - how? I want to keep the plastic panel so it looks original, but it does appear quite a mystery as to mounting an MDF spacer ring with a 6.5" speaker onto a panel designed for a 5.25".

I already have the speakers (Infonity Kappa components) so would rather use the 6.5" if possible rather than having to buy a set of 5.25".

Cheers.

[Mr Project]

That's funny...I'm kinda in the same situation. I have a NOS set of Infinity components in 6.5 that I'd like to use in my E34.....so count me as another interested party!

[KCD]

First post..... I tried doing the same thing without having to cut anything out of either the plastic panel or from behind the panel (brackets and lock controlers...) but it would not work because the speakers I have are way to deep. The fist step I tried was removing the brass fittings that the stock speakers attach to, they were pretty tough, and I ended up just cutting them off with a dremel tool. After I removed the fittings I cut some plastic off the back of the panel flattening the area where the driver would sit .Next I cut a thin MDF ring that I could attach the speaker to and mount onto the stock plastic panel. At this point I noticed that no matter what I did the speakers would not fit. Below are some old pics of the panels, I've made some changes since these pictures were taken. Hope this helps..... KC

Panel One (http://images.snapfish.com/3433374%3B23232%7Ffp7%3Enu%3D3245%3E5%3B9%3E7%3A8% 3EWSNRCG%3D3232883647%3A9%3Cnu0mrj)
Panel 2 (http://images.snapfish.com/3433374%3B23232%7Ffp4%3Enu%3D3245%3E5%3B9%3E7%3A8% 3EWSNRCG%3D3232883647%3A9%3Anu0mrj)
Drivers Side (http://images.snapfish.com/3433374%3B23232%7Ffp7%3Enu%3D3245%3E5%3B9%3E7%3A8% 3EWSNRCG%3D3232883647%3A96nu0mrj)
Passenger Side (http://images.snapfish.com/3433374%3B23232%7Ffp45%3Dot%3E2336%3D6%3A%3A%3D899 %3DXROQDF%3E23237927389%3A6ot1lsi)

KC

[Incantation]

i got my Focal polyglass 165v2 in there.. they're 6.5s

you have to use the little paper circle; mark where you want the speaker to fit, and use a dremel tool to cut it out. they fit perfectly.

unfortunately no pics.. but i will try to take some soon.

[pundit]

Those of you who've done it - how? I want to keep the plastic panel so it looks original, but it does appear quite a mystery as to mounting an MDF spacer ring with a 6.5" speaker onto a panel designed for a 5.25".

I already have the speakers (Infonity Kappa components) so would rather use the 6.5" if possible rather than having to buy a set of 5.25".

Cheers.
First I have to ask the question. Why are you fitting 6.5" drivers in place of the 5.25" apart from the obvious - that you already have them? I've got a Leyland alloy V8 sitting under my house but it doesn't mean I'm going to stick it in my 535 just because it's a V8. (Stupid analogy really! :p) But if you want decent quality extended bass response you will not get it by fitting 6.5" speaker in the front kick panels no matter how good the speakers are. In fact really good bass speakers will be wasted in this location. The space behind the kick panel and the fact it's attached to a piece of plastic will simply not allow decent speakers to perform at their best at much below 100hz and even then the response will be unpredictable and hard to control as you can't really 'tune' a space like that. If you were planning on fitting a properly designed sub-woofer I wouldn't worry about changing the front 5.25" factory speakers (unless you want to fit a better quality 5.25") Just cross them over at 80-100hz and feed everything below that to a sub. That will really clean up the sound of the 5.25"s. If your Infinity speakers include a passive crossover then you will have to use all the those speakers as a system. Personally I think all the BMW factory '10 speaker' system needs is better tweeter, a sub and a decent crossover and amps to tie it all together. But then again I'm an old fart who doesn't listen to doof at 130db... but hell what do I know anyway?! :D

[Tiger]

Ditto... Just cut out the plastic and suface mount it... Hardly noticeble as it is so far into the footwell...

I got the Focal PolyKevlar... these are awesome!

[Incantation]

^ i'm not sure, really. i have 6.5 in mine.. and although i run a nice focal 13" sub for everything below 100 hz, the 6.5's pound if i turn the sub off and let the drivers run below 100hz.

i don't think anyone is mounting 6.5" components in there to get 'decent quality extended bass response'. most individuals will cross them over and have the sub do that job.

i like your list of mods

[jplacson]

I agree with pundit... if you have 6.5's... dump them in the rear deck. They fit with no mods. (I'm running 6.5 Boston's in the rear deck... no mods or cutting... there's room for a tweeter/component in the rear deck as well if you want)

The fronts will fit 6.5's with some mods... first a 'floating spacer' ... this isn't a regular spacer since you need it to become smaller... and make sure that the speaker cone isn't hitting the spacer during loud music, otherwise you've just ruined your reason for getting components. You're gonna get bad buzz and distortion if the cone hits the spacer during cone movement.

The front kicks aren't strong enough for high wattage 6.5s. The panels are just clipped plastic walls and will rattle as well... and the plastic isn't rigid enough, and will absorb a lot of the vibration energy, thus causing lower volume, and weird eq problems.

Not to mention the front kicks may not be deep enough, unless you remove the sound proofing inside... then you'll be left with bare metal that will cause high freq resonance...etc...etc.

The only way you'd be able to fit 6.5s in the kicks and still have it sound good is to do a custom kick panel. It will stick out a bit more, but you can keep your originals intact, and do justice to your speakers. I'm not saying it's impossible to mount 6.5s in the original kicks with little or no mods ... but if you're after sonic quality, you're gonna have to do a custom job.

[pundit]

^ i'm not sure, really. i have 6.5 in mine.. and although i run a nice focal 13" sub for everything below 100 hz, the 6.5's pound if i turn the sub off and let the drivers run below 100hz.

i don't think anyone is mounting 6.5" components in there to get 'decent quality extended bass response'. most individuals will cross them over and have the sub do that job.
i like your list of mods
"...i don't think anyone is mounting 6.5" components in there to get 'decent quality extended bass response'. most individuals will cross them over and have the sub do that job..."

That's basically my point. If you are going to run a sub I don't think it's worth the effort to fit 6.5" speakers in place of the 5.25"s. As long as you roll them off below about 100hz at least 12db/oct they won't be overstretched (under reasonable operation) and 'pound' as you say. Using a sub enables you to run the original factory bass drivers as 'lo-mids'... and they will now have a much more relaxing life ahead of them. :)

Cone excursion and heat disappation within the voice coil will be reduced making the speaker more linear and improving it's reliability, intermodulation & harmonic distortion is also reduced AND max SPL is increased... to name but a few advantages. It of course depends on how hard you intend pushing the limit. I'm not one to sit inside a sealed chamber (my E34!) with 120+db's of noise homogenising my brain. For some this is how they get their rocks off... and my taxes to subsidise their hearing aides when they turn 30! :p

Personally I think the factory 5.25" speakers are pretty good for an original fitment, probably better than many after market Chinese 6.5"s and their performance can be improved by the above. Yes they are a paper cone (albeit coated) but don't let paper cones put you off.

A great deal of marketing strategy relies on fashion and marketers create fashion to sell to markets. It is a proven fact the people spend a great deal more money on products that are fashion based than those that are functional, well made and do what their supposed to. Car sound is no different. Look at the useless adornments fitted to car sound equipment these days. All kinds of useless chrome, mock carbon fibre and blinking appendiges designed to attract attention to the product and give the buyer the feeling that he will attract others attention by buying it. Many of these 'adornments' especially the sculptured speakers surrounds and cone 'ornaments' actually worsen their performance.

While there has been many improvements in technology over the years, the fundemantals of speaker design has not really changed much in over 70 years. Sure materials and manufacturing techniques have improved but the fundementals are the same. I still believe some of the best sounding bass speakers don't use plastic, carbon fibre, metal or fibre glass cones, but PAPER cones. If maximum SPL is you thing then you should checkout what the major professional speaker manufacturers use in their sound systems the like used by The Rolling Stones, AC/DC and probably most Rave parties... YUP PAPER!! Car power amplifiers ratings are almost always over stated by the manufacturers by as much as much as fifty times their true ouput!... but don't let me start on this!

Most of the NAME brands now manufacture in Asia and most contract Chinese plants that build generic production line speakers to simply badge engineer speakers with their name on the front. More money is spent on the appearance and marketing than the speaker itself but this is the case with most products today anyway. Never believe the specs on the box. You may as well read tea leaves to decide what's good and what's not. Car sound specs are, in the main, ********!! How do I know this... I managed a car sound department in a large retail chain for three years.

Every speaker, sub, lo-mid, mid, tweeter etc. is designed to perform best within it's optimum frequency (and power range) understanding those requirements and designing a system accordingly will not only ensure good results but avoid spending money in areas that will provide little or no benefit. ;)

Okay. I've finished my rant now and I promise to crawl back into my cave and stay there until winter is over! :D

[BigKriss]

Hi Pundit, I am in the process of adding 6.5" drivers to the kick panels. I have done the passenger side and currently on the drivers side. I'm going to upgrade the whole stero, with 2 amps (4x50 wrms for the front and rear) and a 1x50 wrms for the amp (sony 10" free air sub firing though the ski bag area), cd player and a sony adjutable eq with sub active crossover.

My stero only came with 6 speakers (kick panels. tweeters on the dash and rear pacel shelf speakers).

I'm using the stock panel, took off all the sound dampening material and then put new sound dampening material which is approx 1 cm in depth. The kick panel fits in fine, with adquate room for the drivers magnet).

I don't know how it will sound becasue it isn't wired up yet. It does take a while to cut the hole properly for the speaker. I'll report back when it's all running. I still have some questions with the install though.

Here are some pics of the passenger side 6.5"

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=896&stc=1
http://www.bimmer.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=897&stc=1
http://www.bimmer.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=897&stc=1
http://www.bimmer.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=899&stc=1

[Rory535i]

I agree with pundit... if you have 6.5's... dump them in the rear deck. They fit with no mods. (I'm running 6.5 Boston's in the rear deck... no mods or cutting... there's room for a tweeter/component in the rear deck as well if you want)

What's involved in fitting 6.5's in the rear deck? i swapped the front 5.25's for pioneer ones and they do a great job but the ones in the back are **** even though i replaced them too. they're just too small and my sub drowns them out. I thought there was barely enough room for the standard speakers in the back never mind 6.5's! A local car audio shop sold me brackets for the back of my e30 325is that held 6x9's which made a huge difference but they sold nothing for the E34. what way did u fit your 6.5's if you say they require no mods? would be a blessing if i could whack some in there! :D TIA

[mcrum]

its been done - I had Boston Pro 6.5's in my old 1992 535i (incredible sound!). However, the speaker grills were mounted on the outside of the kick panel. I can't seem to get in touch with the installer who did the work. I had to put 5.25's in the rear deck.
Mark
1990 535im
1988 535is

[jplacson]

Rory... I just dropped them in. The only thing I did was add rubber lining around the lip of the plastic bucket to get a better seal around the edges of the speaker. Other than that... they just dropped in.

I too only have the 6-speaker setup (rear deck, kick, dash) ... I'm running Infinity Kappa 5.25 Components in the front (tweeters in the dash)... Boston 6.5s in the rear deck... and a 12" Rockford Fosgate sub in the trunk.

[Rory535i]

Rory... I just dropped them in. The only thing I did was add rubber lining around the lip of the plastic bucket to get a better seal around the edges of the speaker. Other than that... they just dropped in.

but what did you screw the speakers into? is the rim of the bucket not too narrow for larger speakers? does the speaker grille fit back over? when i put my replacement speakers in i could only get three screws in each one so i thought anything larger would be near impossible? obviously it's not if you've done it. i didn't take the cover off the rear deck, is this necessary?

[Incantation]

there's no effort to fitting 6.5's in the front.. you take the panel off, outline a circle, cut it out, and fit the speaker in. is that a lot of work? to me that's a fun morning project.

not really sure what you're getting at with the rest of your post. sounds more like you want to make it seem like you know what you're talking about, rather than addressing what we're talking about.

if our guy here is replacing his kick drivers, he should mate them with some tweets ( they're called components - now it's my turn to tell you stuff you already know). and if we read his post a little closer, we will see that he already bought the speakers, and yes, they do include tweeters.

bottom line is that it would be ridiculous to put the 6.5's in the rear deck if the tweets are up front.

[Incantation]

he bought components dude

[jplacson]

I only got 3 screws in as well... but that's why I placed the rubber lining to seal off any gaps. The screws actually don't hold my speaker in (I only screwed it in since I had nothing better to do, 3rd screw is not down all the way... it's just there to hold the speaker in place)... it's the rubber lining. (Similar to the kind used on window sills) You don't have to remove the rear deck. I also didn't use the grilles that came with the speakers anymore... since the rear deck has grilles.

[rockyfeller]

As said just dremmel the kickpanel and surface mount your speaker...Ensure you have adequate backspacing for the magnet. Though it will be a snug fit (esp on driver's side, be careful), 80% of 6.5s should clear. (driver's side is a but of a pain with the hood release in the way) I did the whole job in in 2hrs. The kick panels are kinda flimsy as a speaker mount (they can't compare to Q-logic's kick-panels, especially since the advantage of those panels are the superb imaging provided by the angle) but since there is some insulation there is no rattle at all. I would recommend speakers with swiveling midranges/tweeters as fixed ones would not be that effective. Only your sneakers will hear them. Even though I surface mounted them, they look great and almost stock. I spent a lot of thought on how to get more bass, etc, and after completing my final step of adding the subs I realized all that thinking was a waste of time. I do agree there is not too much of a difference with bass up front of 6.5s and the 5.25s with the stock deck. I changed everything else in my system so I benefit from the added power handling/response of the new speakers and I see a big difference for this reason, not necesarily because of the size upgrade. My rear deck would require a much more extensive hack job so I did the easy job of dropping in matched 5.25s. I regret it though. Though the speakers are great quality my opinion is the rear deck would better benefit from a change to larger speakers rather than upgrading to larger speakers in the kick panels. My dream would have been to drop a set of 3-way 6x9s back there as I believe they just make the best sound in a rear deck over anything else while keeping my budget. (Except maybe a really expensive high end compnent set that would require a seperate amp.) Luckily my perfect 12" subs and 1000 watt amp take over my system forgiving any shortcomings in the rest of the speakers. I didn't spend a lot of money and I have a great system with a lot of reserve that works efficient. It may be more than I need but that's what I love. (300 hp is more than I really need, but hey, I love it.) Want bass? Buy subs.... there's no substitute. Kick panel speakers will just give you a little kick...you need THUMP. Try it, you'll be addicted and any other system will sound like KRAP. :)

[jplacson]

I agree... the difference between a 5.25 and 6.5 isn't that big a deal.. if you consider all the cutting you'll be doing just to cram them into the kicks.

Get a sub or two... and a good crossover... otherwise your 6.5 or 5.25s will be struggling to play the lower freq and you'll be wasting their power in that range. And your sub will be trying to play the higher freq... if it does, it'll sound like crap... all muddy and boomy.