E34 M50 Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick... Help!

[wishihad50k]

I know that this problem is nearly impossible to diagnose by reading a post but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway. My engine has a nasty Tick Tick Tick at idle. It only happens once and a while and its not very consistent (it happens when its cold, hot, right after start up, etc.). If I give it a little gas and rev the engine it goes away for a bit and comes back. I tryed to clean the fuel injection with a can of BG44 K and that stopped it for about a month, but then it came back. I have also noticed lately that is smells like gas in the cab??? I need some help! I thought maybe exhaust leak? Any suggestions would be great! Thanks guys!

[shogun]

Which M50 engine do you have?
The BMW M50 is an I6 piston engine. It was introduced in 1989 to replace the BMW M20 and was replaced by the BMW M52 in 1994. Displacement ranges from 2.0 L to 3.0 L. It is a DOHC 24-valve engine. A Technical Update or M50TU version from 1992 introduced VANOS variable valve timing.

The M50 was related to the M20 with the same 91 mm cylinder spacing, bore, and stroke at 2.0 and 2.5 liters.

M50B20
The 2.0 L (1991 cc) M50B20 was introduced with the 1989 520i. It has an 80 mm bore and 66 mm stroke and produces 150 hp.

Applications:

1989 520i
M50B25
The 2.5 L (2494 cc) M50B25 was introduced with the 1992 525i. It has an 84 mm bore and 75 mm stroke and produces 192 hp.

Applications:

1992-1994 525i
Note: This is the engine from which the M50TU evolved. The VaNoS update was added late 1992 and sold for 1993 model year E34s.

M50B30
The M50B30 was a 3.0 L version, which powered the US-spec E36 M3.

VANOS (Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung) is an automobile variable valve timing technology developed by BMW. VANOS varies the duration and lift of the intake valves by moving the fulcrum of the camshaft. BMW recently began offering "double" VANOS, which operates on the exhaust camshaft as well, on the BMW 3-series cars.

(copied from a BMW info page)

[Rory]

I know that this problem is nearly impossible to diagnose by reading a post but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway. My engine has a nasty Tick Tick Tick at idle. It only happens once and a while and its not very consistent (it happens when its cold, hot, right after start up, etc.). If I give it a little gas and rev the engine it goes away for a bit and comes back. I tryed to clean the fuel injection with a can of BG44 K and that stopped it for about a month, but then it came back. I have also noticed lately that is smells like gas in the cab??? I need some help! I thought maybe exhaust leak? Any suggestions would be great! Thanks guys!
Sticky lifters.....let me guess that it goes away above 2500 RPM's or so? It is perfectly acceptable but annoying. Many (including myself) have suffered from this on the M50 and it is the price yout wy for not having to do valve adjustments. What weight oil are you running? Synthetic or dino? I was running 20W-50 and the tick was really bad. Switching to 10W30 (Mobil 1 on both) takes care of most of my problem. Also, a long jaunt down the highway in 2nd and 3rd gear (5-nearly 7K RPM's) helped my noise out a lot. I think I had/have a lot of carbon buildup on the valves due to lots of short trips so the valves tend to stick a bit causing the noise. I would play with oil weights and drive it like you stole it for a few days and see if it helps.

Good Luck,
Rory

[Burell]

I know that this problem is nearly impossible to diagnose by reading a post but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway. My engine has a nasty Tick Tick Tick at idle. It only happens once and a while and its not very consistent (it happens when its cold, hot, right after start up, etc.). If I give it a little gas and rev the engine it goes away for a bit and comes back. I tryed to clean the fuel injection with a can of BG44 K and that stopped it for about a month, but then it came back. I have also noticed lately that is smells like gas in the cab??? I need some help! I thought maybe exhaust leak? Any suggestions would be great! Thanks guys!

The funny thing is ... I had what I thought was a ticking valve/sticky lifter too. After I replaced most parts of the cooling system (the famous exploding plastic impeller) the tick has totally gone since. These would still be unrelated events in my book hadn't had my father _exactly_ the same thing (familiar tick->failing waterpump) with a totally different car (GM).

Explanations anyone?

Burell

[wishihad50k]

I will try to use different oil weights, and "drive is like I stole it" (dont need an excuse to do that). If it was sticky lifters, would it come and go though? It doesnt do it all the time (thank you God) its very random, but its always during idel and yes it goes away after 2500 rpms. Thanks for the suggestions!

[Interceptor]

I will try to use different oil weights, and "drive is like I stole it" (dont need an excuse to do that). If it was sticky lifters, would it come and go though? It doesnt do it all the time (thank you God) its very random, but its always during idel and yes it goes away after 2500 rpms. Thanks for the suggestions!
Probably the hydraulic valve lifters. I had the same noise during cold starts when using 10W40 Shell Helix Plus. After switching to Mobil1 0W40 and adding LiquiMoly Hydraulic Valve Lifter Cleaner the ticking noise is almost gone (except for the first second after a cold start - this is normal behaviour, since oil needs to circulate thru the valve lifters).

[liquidtiger720]

hmm, i have the same problem! I just never thought anything of it. At the moment I am running 20w50 castrol gtx. I need to switch to synthetic, but I am afraid of a leaks. How does that hydraulic valve lifter cleaner work? pour it in, drive it awhile, then change oil?

[632 Regal]

if the lifter has a worn area on it you will hear a tick as it rotates from the worn spot to a good spot?

just guessin here.

[Brett619310]

I heard the same thing for about 5 or 10 seconds on a cold start the other day. I love this board... my question is answered before I ask it. I will switch to 0w40 on the next oil change and see what happens.

[Rory]

I heard the same thing for about 5 or 10 seconds on a cold start the other day. I love this board... my question is answered before I ask it. I will switch to 0w40 on the next oil change and see what happens.
Just to clarify a few points from this discussion as it sounds like a few folks might be confused. When your car sits, the oil will bleed down out of the lifters (and the rest of the engine) making its way to the oil pan. When you start the engine, pressure builds and circulates through the engine. The initial "tick" on startup is a delay in the hydraulic valve lifters building pressure to get to their normal operating range. It is much more prevalent in cold temperatures because of the chemical properties of the oil in cold weather as oil is much thicker at colder temps. Light weight oil is much more fluid in cold temperatures and flows more smoothly, so the oil gets into the lifters and the pressure builds. A thicker oil will not flow as well in the cold and takes more time to build the pressure. Thus the reason you run a lighter oil in Yankee Country or other cold climates.

The intermittent tick that wishihad50k had posted about is most likely a different problem. It is probably a mechanical "defect" in 1 or more lifters where pressure temporarily drops and the valves crash closed. As you press the go pedal, oil pressure builds in the engine and the lifters overcome the "defect" pumping up and the noise goes away. Playing with oil weights may or may not help depending on the problem. Some common areas are either a stuck/failed lifter, debris/crud caught in the lifter blocking path (like artherosclerosis), air pocket in the lifter displacing oil, etc. But this tick is not from the oil being too heavy initially.

Interceptor, can you give a little info on the Lubro Molly Hydraulic Valve Cleaner you used? I tried searching for it but couldn't find any info and it sounds like an interesting product.

Thanks,
Rory

[wishihad50k]

Wow great post! I would also like to here about Lubro Molly Hydraulic Valve Cleaner. Is there any kind of engine additive that I can buy to clean up the lifters and such? Cars got 170k on it so Im sure it wouldnt hurt. Thanks guys!

[Interceptor]

hmm, i have the same problem! I just never thought anything of it. At the moment I am running 20w50 castrol gtx. I need to switch to synthetic, but I am afraid of a leaks. How does that hydraulic valve lifter cleaner work? pour it in, drive it awhile, then change oil?
You just pour it in, drive, and forget about it until the next oil change. :) I'm using Mobil1 0w40 and have no oil leaks at all. Before inspection I had Shell Helix Plus 10w40 leaking from the oil filter o-ring, oil level sensor ring and oil pan gasket. When my mechanic changed all the gaskets I made a 1000 km trip almost without any oil loss. I suggest you check your gaskets before switching to Mobil1, since 1 liter of it is around $20, here :(

Btw., I'm living in mild climate, temperatures rarely go below 0° C, here - maybe 0w40 isn't right for you if it's too hot or too cold there.

[Interceptor]

Interceptor, can you give a little info on the Lubro Molly Hydraulic Valve Cleaner you used? I tried searching for it but couldn't find any info and it sounds like an interesting product.
Liqui-Moly is a reputable german company that makes all sorts of additives for cars and bikes, here's there web site (in german):

http://www.liqui-moly.de/web/lmhomede.nsf/pages/index_produkte

This is the info about the hydraulic valve cleaner (in german):

HYDRO-STÖSSEL-ADDITIV

Dämpft die Geräuschbildung ausgelaufener Hydro-Stössel. Reinigt Ventile und Bohrungen im Stössel und sorgt somit wieder für ihre optimale Funktion.
Einsatz: Zugabe zum Motorenöl. Für alle Benzin- und Dieselmotoren mit und ohne Turboaufladung. Kat getestet. Mischbar mit allen handelsüblichen Motorenölen. 300 ml ausreichend für bis zu 6 l Motorenöl.

and a babelfish translation to english:

HYDRAULIC TAPPET ADDITIVE

The noise creation of run out hydraulic tappets absorbs. Cleans valves and drillings in the tappet and provides thus again for its optimal function. Employment: Addition to engine oil. For all gasoline and diesel engines with and without turbo-loading. Kat tested. Mixable with all commercial engine oils. 300 ml sufficiently for up to 6 l engine oil.

[titanium25]

hi everyone!
I once had this problem and as i was preparing to take the valve cover off to see if there was any loose valvetrain parts i needed to remove each of the coils, upon removing, i decided to give each of the boots a good once over just cuz i never had taken them off since i got the car well.... as i removed the coil i noticed a pretty significant tear in the boot which in actuality was allowing the spark to jump from the coil to the valve cover! as a quick fix i wrapped the boot with electrical tape until i could replace with a new and found that not only was the sound gone but that driving with 6 cylinders is way better than 5! its just a suggestion as i dont really know anything about this hydraulic valve cleaner.

[6670charger]

Found this older thread during a search for a solution to a perceived problem with my engine. I have a 95 520i wagon with the 2.0L M50 engine and manual trans. The engine seems to develop normal power at all speeds and conditions. The problem is that once it warms up, it develops an anoying ticking sound that never goes away, and increases/decreases with engine speed. I've done some reading, and have found a number of references to oil weight, and possibly even loose spark plugs. The PO said it started doing this almost immediately after he put a tank of E10 fuel in the car because he was in Italy and had no other choice. I'm assuming lifter issue, but, not sure.

Just wondering what experiences anyone has had lately with a similar problem, and what did you do to fix it?

[95Five25I]

Wen was the last time you replaced the timing chain tensioner? I had the same problem but I switched oils and didnt resolve. I eventually went through the top end of my m50 and relized that it was the tensioner on the upper chain causing the noise. Just a food for thought.

[6670charger]

I have no idea. I'm on a military installation in Germany. This is a car that has been bought and sold by various soldiers countless times. It probably bears checking into.

[Russell]

i suspect you have oil draining when engine is cold. This may be oil weight related. i noticed it when i ran 0w40 or 5-40 oil. When warm or hot, I think it is lifter related (worn or dirty engine). Tiny little orfices that may clog. Our M50 engines have a lot of miles on them and in many cases several owners. Lots of opportunity for gunked up engines.

Mine had the ocassional warm idle tick. I think it was a dirty engine. I am the second owner. I cleaned it with advice from Bobistheoil guy forum with Auto-RX, MMO etc.. My Best result to clean the engine was using Kreen from Kano Laboratories, Inc. Nashville, Tenn. The engine is much quieter and seems to run better per the Butt meter. I also used it in the fuel. I think that helped as well. good luck

Also, I think the best weight oil is 10w40. 20w50 seems ok but may be too heavy for the M50?? I have used Lubro-Moly 10w40 blend and Valvoline Maxlife blend 10w40 with good results.

[6670charger]

My first thought was changing the oil. I've been wondering about the 20W50 myself. I had been running 10W40 in my 92 525 and had no problems whatsoever. I think I'll give it another week, and drop oil again and see if that does anything. The timing chain tensioner and spark plugs might bear looking into also if the oil change doesn't show at least some improvement.

[bimmerd00d]

Dump 1/4-1/2 a can of seafoam into the oil, drive the piss out of it for 300-500 miles. Change oil/filter with 10w40 or 15w50 and enjoy the quiet lifters.

[6670charger]

Does anyone know if there is a good place to buy Seafoam in Europe (Germany)? I can certainly mail-order it from somewhere, but, if I can just buy it off the shelf somewhere, that would be even more convenient.

Thanks.

[6670charger]

Well, I found the liquid Moly Hydro-stossel additive at a local German car parts store. Added a bottle and it only seems to help a little when the engine is cooler. When it's good and warm from a good long run, she chatters like crazy. Also changed oil to a 10W-30 partial synthetic. Car seems to run great, develops plenty of power, and gets decent fuel economy. Routinely get 25mpg+ on the Autobahn, just chatters like crazy when warm and sounds like hell. Seafoam isn't available here, and to ship it here by boat would take half a century. Think I'll try the timing chain adjuster in the next few weeks and see if that makes a difference. If not, it's probably just bad lifters.

[Bill R.]

Check here (http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/5-series-bmw/3866-thanks-bill-r-my-m50-lifter-noise-gone.html)

[6670charger]

Thanks Bill. I bookmarked the page as I won't be able to get to it for another week or two. Nice to have the info.

[6670charger]

I know this is a bit out of order in the scheme of replies at the top. I've been doing just as suggested by driving the car like I stole it after having changed to 10W-30 part synthetic oil and adding Liqui-Moly lifter cleaner. When I drive the car on the Autobahn for about 7-8 miles at 110mph or so, the engine seems to quiet down at all speeds for about 3 days, but then the lifter clatter starts up again during city driving. Only happens when the engine is warmed up to normal temp. When it's cold, it sounds normal.

I'm taking Bill's suggestion and changing out the gasket for the oil pickup tube in the oil pan tonight to see if the problem might be air getting into the oil causing foaming at warmer temps. I'll post and let everyone know if that solves the problem. If that doesn't solve the problem, I'm open to suggestions.

[Russell]

I know this is a bit out of order in the scheme of replies at the top. I've been doing just as suggested by driving the car like I stole it after having changed to 10W-30 part synthetic oil and adding Liqui-Moly lifter cleaner. When I drive the car on the Autobahn for about 7-8 miles at 110mph or so, the engine seems to quiet down at all speeds for about 3 days, but then the lifter clatter starts up again during city driving. Only happens when the engine is warmed up to normal temp. When it's cold, it sounds normal.

I'm taking Bill's suggestion and changing out the gasket for the oil pickup tube in the oil pan tonight to see if the problem might be air getting into the oil causing foaming at warmer temps. I'll post and let everyone know if that solves the problem. If that doesn't solve the problem, I'm open to suggestions.

I have the warm idle lifter noise, only after the oil has about 3,500 miles on it. Looking forward to your results. I would think that changing the oil pan gasket is a bit of a pain on the M50.

[6670charger]

Yes, it was. I spent about 8 hours working on the thing the other day. The gasket behind the oil pickup was the culprit. Lifters are nice and quiet now.

Had to lift the engine a couple of inches to create some clearance to get the pan out, and then remove the driver-side motor mount to replace two of the pan bolts.

[Russell]

Thanks, Looks like it will only be done by my Indy in my case. I hate the thought of his labor cost. :)

[6670charger]

The only thing that saved my butt was that I'm on a military installation, and we have what's called an Auto Craft shop. It's a fully stocked garage with workbays, lifts, tools and a few coaches who help out or give you pointers on what needs to be done. You do the lion's share of the work yourself. Costs me $7/hr for a lift bay, so I spent $50. Total was about $75 with the parts.

If it hadn't been for that, I'll bet it would have cost me a good 150-200 euro (around $200-300) to get it done provided any local mechanic would even look at a car this old. Might have had to take it to BMW, or else just junk it.