Building a Garage, input needed

[Dave M]

So we're looking for a garage, with a house included. However, we've found a house at a good price (80,000) without a garage, so I'm planning on building one (if they accept our offer). The catch is that we cannot cover more than 35% of the lot with the house, deck, porch etc. This means I have @310 square feet to play with. I'll insulate and likey heat the puppy so the walls must be > 6" wide. Haven't played with the dimensions too much yet, but wondering if that will give m enough room to lets say....pull the M50 and swap out the block. I don't expect a airplane hanger, but just enough for a small workbench and no serious back injuries from having to squeeeze between all the time.

Oh yeah, the house is nice too. 1100 sq' two storey 'character', 3br up, office on main, semi-finished basement with sauna and shower.

Any thoughts?

Dave M

[632 Regal]

you could buils a 26x12 (appx) which will give you a little room in the front, a 24 isnt real roomy up there. the 12 foot wide will allow you to put in an 8 foot door in the center with the access door on the side. It will be cozy and if you insulate it well you can keep it warm with a candle. Put the compressor in the attic along with some storage space.

[Badkrma]

So that is going to give about a 14' X 22' unit. That is tight. I have a 12' X 22' and I can get the car in and work on it, but it is tight (no pulling the engine room)...... I just order a portable garage 22' X 20' x 10'. The best part about it is that even thour it will be attached to the ground via concrete, it is still considered portable due to fabric top. I am going to work on putting it up this weekend I hope.

[Kalevera]

...I miss having a garage....ANY garage.

In terms of dimensions, I agree with Jeff -- rather have space up front, put the compressor upstairs (or, heck...hang it from the ceiling :) ), maybe even hang some of the other non-essentials if you're building up, and put an access door next to the actual one. That way, at least in theory (minus the junk your wife/girlfriend/live in ex girlfriend who does the laundry decides needs to go in the surrounding space), you can comfortably work around either the front or the back and one side ;)

[632 Regal]

of course you will need a utility shed for all the other things, lawn mower, chain saws, concrete mixer, asphalt brooms and all the other crap you cant throw away or sell.

[Dave M]

12' doesn't seem like much width, but you're right about wanting the room up front. With the car parked closer to one wall you should have @ 4-5' to play with on the other. But how to jack up the side closer to the wall? Haven't done enough thinking yet. Thats where you guys come in.
Good idea about storing things aloft. I'll make the builder aware of that.

Gotta go make my counter-counter offer, wish us luck,

Later,

dave m

[TheGeak]

its too small...no matter what, it'll always be too small.

[zygoteer]

hmmm .., why not do what i did ? ... buy a few more acres from adjoining land, then an 'ideal' workshop/garage doesn't become dominant (i.e. not an eyesore to my significant other)

[632 Regal]

hmm....my car is only about 6 foot wide which would leave about 6 feet to play with. 3 foot a side isnt real huge but its ok. Have you looked into a variance in zoning? I did that in one of my old houses, was limited to about the same size as you and went for a variance for a 26x24 and it passed. Between that and relocating the garden it only took 3 minutes to mow the grass in the yard.

[Kalevera]

man...I've got all of that stuff, too!! ..Except for the concrete mixer. But to make up for it, I've got two snow blowers, three leaf blowers, rototiller, vintage lawn tractor, a string trimmer, and about two million ladders...plus a bunch of lawn furniture (not my idea).

Are you planning on laying down concrete over the dirt road? :)

[JonE]

How about give up some of the other "hard cover" like downsize the porch and the deck and then build a bigger garage? In our area, even a gravel driveway isn't considered "hard cover". I assume the issue is percent of hard cover to "yard"?

[Elekta]

Can you dig/pour in a pit so you won't need a lift?...Tell insurance co it's for hurricane protection, maybe get a reduction.

Impervious cover calc's have to be right on the money...don't want to have to tear anything out. I've seen driveways that are two concrete strips with grass growing in the middle...somebody's numbers had to have been close to do that; however, that may add another 80/180 sqft....you know for that chest high roll away tool chest...ar ar ar

[632 Regal]

pits suck, I had one here and filled it in. Too short to stand up and too deep to easily access tools. Used it a few times and filled it in, everytime your down there you need another damn tool, or you drop something, or you hit your head. you would need a whole lower floor with adjustible platforms like they have in the quick oil change joints, that would be cool.

[Bellicose Right Winger]

Find a neighbor whose house/deck/porch cover more then 35%, request a variance and don't forget the grease pit in the floor.

Paul Shovestul



So we're looking for a garage, with a house included. However, we've found a house at a good price (80,000) without a garage, so I'm planning on building one (if they accept our offer). The catch is that we cannot cover more than 35% of the lot with the house, deck, porch etc. This means I have @310 square feet to play with. I'll insulate and likey heat the puppy so the walls must be > 6" wide. Haven't played with the dimensions too much yet, but wondering if that will give m enough room to lets say....pull the M50 and swap out the block. I don't expect a airplane hanger, but just enough for a small workbench and no serious back injuries from having to squeeeze between all the time.

Oh yeah, the house is nice too. 1100 sq' two storey 'character', 3br up, office on main, semi-finished basement with sauna and shower.

Any thoughts?

Dave M

[Bellicose Right Winger]

Dave M, make that a PROPERLY designed grease pit. :D

Paul Shovestul


pits suck, I had one here and filled it in. Too short to stand up and too deep to easily access tools. Used it a few times and filled it in, everytime your down there you need another damn tool, or you drop something, or you hit your head. you would need a whole lower floor with adjustible platforms like they have in the quick oil change joints, that would be cool.

[Bill R.]

vapors, gases etc accumulate in pits and are very dangerous if you don't always have forced ventilation in them, i've worked in them before and don't enjoy it.





pits suck, I had one here and filled it in. Too short to stand up and too deep to easily access tools. Used it a few times and filled it in, everytime your down there you need another damn tool, or you drop something, or you hit your head. you would need a whole lower floor with adjustible platforms like they have in the quick oil change joints, that would be cool.

[SamB]

Go underground, or have a flat roof covered in grass. Take an aerial pic and show the local authorities "look its lawn!"

[Dave M]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. Just got back from the city planning office, where a very nice girl with a 'great personality' enlightened me on a little known zoning type clause. I'm currently confined to 35% cover, but if my lawyer can prove that the lot has been 'separate' in ownership and survey from the two adjacent lots since 1984, I may get an additional 5% cover, Wooo Hooo! Thats gives me (let me get my calculator out) a whopping 464 sq' or the possibility of a 26'*18' monster garage.

I hope that works, cuz I'll be out pouding nails this summer.

The variance is another term i've heard thrown around, but haven't done the research. I'm having a blast learning all this crap, and can't wait to finally have the playpen. Set up my pillow under the well supported 5er and go for a few naps.

So with a hypothetical 464 sq', what would you do?

Back out to look at more dwellings,

Dave M

[Eric Clark]

To gain some extra space why not put in 6' doube outswig door on one side so you can open it up on nice days? It won't do much good in the winter when you are heating but will give you extra moving space when it is nice or some emergancy access to the side of the car if you have it parked to one side.

[Dave M]

Not a bad idea Eric, never thought of that. Unfortunately, all these doors and windows cost money. The better half wouldn't think much of a garage that cost more than the house,....I think :)

Thanks,

DaveM

[Dash01]

Not knowing how you're positioned with lot line setbacks and such, it's hard to properly visualize the situs of the house and lot lines, or to conceptualize any particular plan.

That said, if you only have ~310 SF to deal with, why not do ~18' X ~17' ?

Anyhow, here's a great idea that my bro. in law in Calgary did: He used radiant heating in the floor of his downstairs garage--the kind with the serpentine hydronic PEX tubing. He heats it with a water heater. That's right--the kind used to heat bathwater. IIRC, he poured the slab on ~4" of foam insulation, with more foam around its perimeter, so heat does not escape to the earth. When he wants to work on the car, he turns on the heat several hours prior, making his feet very happy, and it's really great if he has to jack up the car to work under it. And, since the garage is downstairs and since heat rises, he finds he can pretty much heat the whole house from that slab. This is actually quite cheap, despite the Calgary winter. Works great.

[MBXB]

Check out the build at

www.ultimategarage.com

That guy did a great job. You can't even tell there's a shop from the outside.

That's just one apporach too.


Ramon

[granit_silber]

Check out the build at

www.ultimategarage.com

That guy did a great job. You can't even tell there's a shop from the outside.

That's just one apporach too.


Ramon

Holy Smoke!!

Did anyone catch the last picture??

It's a 1973 3.0 CSL "Batmobile!"
-ashley

[genphreak]

what a great idea though, under floor insulated heating... I always wanted my garage under the house.

ANother idea... a friend of mine has a 4-post electric hoist next to the house under the carport. They are cheap these days, from China of course. not hard to isntall, and park two cars stacked... LOL

[Dash01]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. Just got back from the city planning office, where a very nice girl with a 'great personality' enlightened me on a little known zoning type clause. I'm currently confined to 35% cover, but if my lawyer can prove that the lot has been 'separate' in ownership and survey from the two adjacent lots since 1984, I may get an additional 5% cover, Wooo Hooo! Thats gives me (let me get my calculator out) a whopping 464 sq' or the possibility of a 26'*18' monster garage.

I hope that works, cuz I'll be out pouding nails this summer.

The variance is another term i've heard thrown around, but haven't done the research. I'm having a blast learning all this crap, and can't wait to finally have the playpen. Set up my pillow under the well supported 5er and go for a few naps.

So with a hypothetical 464 sq', what would you do?

Back out to look at more dwellings,

Dave M

Dave,

You don't need to pay the lawyer to check the history of the lot since 1984. Get that free from a title company and/or the tax assessor, along with plat maps, etc. And, a survey of the subject lot or subdivision may be on record, available for the cost of copying, such as 25 cents/page. At least around here, a phone call to either assessor or title company will get them to fax you a copy of such documents, ususally within 30 mins. or so. Also, ask the assessor's office for a copy of their 'field notes,' which consist of a sketch with dimensions of the footprint of the house. Check that against your actual measurements with a tape measure, and then go back to the personality girl with whichever measurements are most helpful to your garage plans.

And, "cover" probably means impervious cover. In other words, if a raindrop falls on the lot, but cannot soak into the ground and has to run off, that's impervious. A gravel driveway is not impervious, but a paved one is. Since the house probably has some roof overhang at the eaves, the overhang is impervious cover. But, if you tuck the garage partly under the overhang, that portion of the garage imakes no addional impervious cover. So, you get some extra latitude by placing the garage beneath whatever cover already exists. You can probably do your deal on this basis alone, but if not, then a variance may be granted, perhaps after public hearing in which the neighbors get to bitch.

It would be wise to make any offer to buy the house contingent upon such approval, so you don't lose your earnest money if the garage plan falls through. It's always wise to know as much as possible about the neighbors going in, b/c they can and will make life miserable, for years.

[Dave M]

Dash 1,

Sounds like you've been here before, or work in the city planning environment. I have found out how to access the info regarding adjacent lot histories without a lawyer (registry office) and am confident I will get the additionl 5% coverage, bumping the garage to a possible 440 sq'. In fact, another "reduced frontage" clause, which we qualify under, allows for 40% coverage (rather than the standard 35%). For good measure I've written into the offer a condition in which the current owner will secure a building permit so that the city agrees with my interpretation of the law and my calculations.

I've already spoken with a neighbour who rents the place next door and doesn't seem to care. I will get in touch with the owner, but don't expect a problem as the current structure on the lot is quite an eye-sore. We'll be sharing a case of beer and swinging some sledges if the deal goes through.

I'm learning quite bit and appreciate the interest of the forum. I now just hope that our offer of last evening will be accepted.

Crossing my fingers, will know @5:00pm tonight,

Thanks again,

Dave M

[632 Regal]

Good luck Dave!!!

[Dave M]

Offer accepted!! Now just the work permit for the garage to tackle and the deal is sealed. My palms are a bit sweaty (first house), I should wait till they dry up before I go swingin a sledge hammer.

Thank you all for your input and support,

Dave M

[tdgard]

You could also rip out your drive & replace it with pervious concrete. It's new & a little tough to find, but water runs straight through. It's a little higher in cost than concrete because they have to pay attention to the mixture more & they lay it a bit thicker, but installation is much cheaper. You don't have to have all those knuckleheads out there with their sticks smothing it, building curbs, blah blah. Truck comes out, pours it in, leaves.

Hmmm. Lets see... That would free me up about 1,700sf. With the 1,000 mine already is... Got to go talk to the wife.