Why does my car sit so low?

[632 Regal]

when I had the bav auto springs I just thought it was cause of the V8, now I have Eibach's and it still sits low, even in the rear. Anyone else have the Eibach springs?

[TheGeak]

lose some weight Jeff....then it won't sit so low ;)

[632 Regal]

http://www.bimmer.info/~regal632/Side.jpg

[GJPinAU]

She looks "all good" to me buddy. maybe a little higher than mine.
cheers, GJP

[Kalevera]

dead struts?

That was the *real* reason why my bavauto experience sucked much more than an enema.

best, whit

[ryan roopnarine]

all of them sit that way, especially the back wheel. mine does. what size tires are you running on the front?

why do you think that the whole car sits soooo low? its because they make new cars higher and higher. four years ago, i noticed how much higher a 2001 taurus was in comparison to my mother's 1999 taurus, and its springs/shocks were fine at the time. nowadays, you got the dodge ram/hemi durango hemi... all of these things alter impressions of how "high" your car is. i look at my car next to some compact, and think that the compact will mess it up if it hit it (of course it wouldn't).

[632 Regal]

well, I just hate how the front SLAMS when I hit decent size bumps. If it wasnt for the dirt road on my way to and from id be happy. I checked out if I had them washers below the strut mount and they are there. I hate to get ne ones and for them to get trashed in no time. The top little rubber snugging thingie is loose, thats why I thought I was missing the lower washer deals but that isn't it. I think the strut mount is wasted.

[Ted K]

What all did you replace with the springs? What kind of set up is it and how long have you had it?

[632 Regal]

replaced the springs with Eibach's & have Bilstein sport struts, both probably only about a year old.

[Jeff N.]

I seem to recall something about cutting the bump stops on Bilstein's with the low springs. Can't remember for sure.

Did you do anything like that?

Jeff



replaced the springs with Eibach's & have Bilstein sport struts, both probably only about a year old.

[ryan roopnarine]

wow. i think everyone here knows how much of a whiny little woman i am...if i were slamming on decent sized bumps, i'd take em off and check the shock insert operation by hand......with a box ready to send em back to bilstein, bma, whomever if i found even the slightest irregularity...that's the whole reason you replace shocks, to keep it from slamming on bumps.

ps, i guess if you were to take em out, you could put the stock springs back on the front to make sure.....lotsa hardware from bma, but if the shock is dead and its gotta lifetime warranty.....better to do it sooner than later.

[632 Regal]

the sports are supposed to have internal bump stops but if they do there a bit firm. I think im going to order new stock bumpstops so I can cut them up and stick them in to cushin it a bit. at 15 bucks a pop id rather use something else though but im drawing blanks.

Ryan, the car always slammed when I changed springs and only after, then I got the new shocks and it still slammed but a bit less. Im talking potholes that are on the verge of busting your rims not little turtle holes. the warrantee deal works like this...you order new onew, take the old ones out and send them back, they send them in and if they find them to be OK you now have 4 new struts...minus shipping of course.

[Jr ///M5]

It is also a problem with the M5's that have converted over to Bilstein sports. The internal bump stops have to be cut down. You can do this yourself or you can ship them back to Bilstein and they will do it for you. Either way, you are not getting the full travel from the shock before it bottoms out on the stop. Most of the posters on the M5 board that are running the Bilstein Sports have had this done and fixed the "bottoming out" problem.

Hope this helps,
Jr

[632 Regal]

I read about where the shocks were serviceable they could unscrew the bottom off and chop it, now they are pretty much sealed with weld or something (i dont remember) Can you point me to some of them links your talking about Jr?

[Kalevera]

Jeff -

When I had my BavAuto springs on the car, I called up the aforementioned company to bitch about strut inserts and the like...They told me that the inserts didn't need to be altered (although I *told* them about the practice of people cutting the bump stops to keep the car from bottoming out all the time).

Now, I know that you're running Eibachs...but I'm still wondering why/how the car is all of the sudden bottoming out all the time -- it didn't do it previously, did it? Seems to me like something's up with the inserts...


best, whit

[Jr ///M5]

I read about where the shocks were serviceable they could unscrew the bottom off and chop it, now they are pretty much sealed with weld or something (i dont remember) Can you point me to some of them links your talking about Jr?

I believe the bumpstop is located at the top of the shock. I've only read about other M5 owners doing it, through the E34 M5 board on Yahoo. Let me look around and do a couple of searches for you, meanwhile get in touch with Bilstein and see what they have to say about it. The others had to practically tell Bilstein how and what to do before they realized they really knew what they were talking about.

[632 Regal]

Lowell, the car has bottomed since I lowered it, a bit less with the Eibachs. It isn't an all of a sudden thing it's just that its getting warmer up here and I would like to fix it if I can. I dont mind spending money on my car (its not problematic at all) but I dont want to waste money I could spend in other places such as intake gaskets, pcv plates etc.


Jr, it does definetly seem as though the travel is limited but I cant compress the car enough to see where abouts the shock is in relation to the top. Need a spy cam in there or something. Any links are definetly appreciated as I couldnt find any definetive posts on this subject.

[Jr ///M5]

Here's a message taken from the M5 mailing list on Yahoo. Even after altering the bumpstops, there still appears to be trouble on speedbumps and such. Maybe this will help your decision.


Yes, I have had lengthy discussions starting with Will Turner and
ending with the heavily German-accented engineer from Bilstein (who
took great offense at my assertion that their engineering for our
application was lacking!) I was less than impressed when my
discussion with them started with "we do not have an application for
the E34" at which point I had to walk them through their own website
which gives the part number for our car! Only after a lengthy
discussion of rates and accelerations and "these are fine on my
wife's E34 wagon" did I finally get an admission that, "Oh, just ship
those to us and we'll install shorter internal bump stops." In the
end, I got a solution that handles great and will probably last
forever, but it still bottoms out on speedbumps and large dips. I
might try the Konis in the future if I get bored and need a project,
though.

Kurt Lehman


So are your potholes the same dynamics as the speedbumps? Having Bilstein alter the bumpstops might not be a solution afterall. The solution might be to fill the potholes...=)

Just slow it down on those damn gravel roads....=)

Jr

[ryan roopnarine]

from my somewhat thorough investigation of the subject, jeff....i'd say that a good 90% of all shocks are extremely easily disassembled, i would think that only 10% or so are welded shut. most of the time it takes a punch and a rubber mallet to disassemble, a lot of the time its easier than that, disassembly is usually popping a screw fit loose, and unscrewing at top or bottom. i never got around to disassembling the ones you sent me, however.

[632 Regal]

Ryan, thats all i need is pressurizes gas shooting across the barn. I think Im going to go for new shock mounts as the top rubber stops arent compressed at all and maybe the support is done. Im going to order the stock stops and chop them up to cushion it a bit and call it a day. Have to address the intake gaskets and such before too long.

[ryan roopnarine]

here's sean and johan e32 page on disassembling the electro-hydraulic back axle shocks.

http://bmwe32.student.utwente.nl/gavin/LAD_strut_rebuild.htm

if you read it, it mentions how easy it is to get teh things apart, i think it involved a mallet or such. this seems to be representative of getting shocks apart.

[pmlmotorsports]

I have a question..........if Bilsteins are such great products, why didn't BMW offer them as OE? Mercedes? OK Porsche does, but let's be real, they don't ride very comfy. Furthermore, I hate dealing with Bilstein, as I find them to be rude, and ignorant.........almost like they are superior beings when compared to us normal folk. I guess some Germans still share a bit of "Hitler's supreme race" theory.......lol. Anyways, I have discussed this in length with several "tuners" and most feel that although Bilstein makes a great product, the monotube design is not always best for ride quality as tey are by far and away the firmest dampener of them all. I myself find them to be way tooooooo harsh regardless of which spring they are paired with. Also, the car does seem a tad low based on the photo, but that can be the slightly larger diameter tire 225/55-16, a 215/55-16 would be closer to stock. Finally, I will post measurements and before & after pictures of my own car very soon. Just waiting for the front end components to arrive. I will be using Vogtland lowering springs w/ stock Boge Automatics dampeners, and yes I will be cutting the bump stops to make them 1" shorter. One thing is for sure, I will never EVER use a Bilstein product again.

[632 Regal]

i dont think my belsteins have an internal stop, why the f_ck would it slam so hard? If they do its made of concrete and Im gonna splurge for choped to chit stockers. I would really like to know if im actually at the end of its travel though.

[bimmerd00d]

what size tires are those? rather meaty

[632 Regal]

idonno 295 60s?

[e34it]

Yeah, i concurr with JR, my M5 has the bilsteins, and its not adjusted, so it slams when i hit bumps

[emw525E34]

Jeef, thats right for Eiback and Bilstein Sports combo. Mine is just the same low slung height. Just that underbody clearance suffers now across some speed bumps with 2 or more passengers behind.
Oh, for Bilstein shocks, they have INTERNAL bump stops so you either have to remove the existing yellow bumpstop or cut a couple of inches off. I cut mine. Never seem to bottom out still.

[Tiger]

Oh! Tell me about that slamming... I totally hated that too. Same setup... Eibach with Bilstein Sport... I will be going with Mtech setup. One other thing you can do to raise it up a bit is thicker spring pad... there is a choice between 3mm and 9 mm... but it does nothing for the slams.

[Tiger]

Bilstein Sport now has internal bumpstop... factory bumpstop is discarded in the front. Rear factory bumpstop should be shortened.

[Tiger]

Front Bilstein Sport comes with internal bumpstops... no factory sleeve or bumpstop is used... just the conical washer on the top and top mount. Rear does use factory shock sleeve but need to cut down the internal bumpstop...

[genphreak]

From what I undertsand, E34s are best balanced sitting low at the rear-like most sedans. When people drop the front they bring the weight forward and create more likelihood of oversteer, a situation many drivers 'enjoy'? encouraging perhaps many shops to do this for their customers. If you track the car, u soon find out, as when u come into corners you get all the weight you want (under brakes) on the front, and so you want to resist this somewhat to maximise cornering dynamics: Having it lower at the front (or higher at the rear) would decrease the ability to manage quite so much speed through the corner.

Consequently this is why a lot of BeeMTroubluew owners complain about tyre wear on the inside at the rear... if you simply cruise around town that's what will happen. If you drive hard the weight spends enough time shifting left to right (therefore on the outside of the rear tyres) so the wear will become more even. Again, check out the camber settings on race cars, the rear is even more 'squat', if they weren't hammering the cars round the track at maximum cornering speeds the outsides of their tyres would barely ever touch the road!

Just my 2c :) GP

On my car it is extreme as my shocks are **totally shot** at the rear and my friends in the US are taking so ong to send new ones... :( hehe, no matter what; be consolated that urs will be much better than mine :)

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

When you lower the E34 you practically eliminate any front end travel, especially with spring kits offering 1.5" of drop. The car is then nearly sitting on the bump stops. Cutting is the only way to get some suspension travel. The car will still slam over bumps when the travel limit is reached.

The Bilstien Sport internal bump stop can be taken out by removing the strut, fitting the protruding shoulder of the extreme bottom end of the damper in a vise and twisting/rocking. The internal bump stop can then be cut.

FWIW, Koni dampers have more compression damping than the Billies and have adjustable rebound to boot. I put Konis on my M5 and it never bottoms.

HTH,
Anthony

[632 Regal]

The Bilstien Sport internal bump stop can be taken out by removing the strut, fitting the protruding shoulder of the extreme bottom end of the damper in a vise and twisting/rocking. The internal bump stop can then be cut.

or see it done? This sounds like what I should do and then use the stock bumpstops and cut them down.

[bimmerd00d]

idonno 295 60s?
good god, i'm running 225/50.

[632 Regal]

I wasnt sure off the top of my head so I threw that in, no one said a thing but you...LOL


good god, i'm running 225/50.

[winfred]

mine had 265/50/15s on the back when i got it
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/750%20low%20tips
i have 215/55/14s on the e30s stock 14x6.5 basket weaves, they fit and look good plus theres little chance of dinging a rim with that much tire hanging out

[632 Regal]

thats thick meat back there!

[rockyfeller]

LOL! Good one!

[pmlmotorsports]

omg, a 265/50-15..........it's gotta be a BFGoodrich tire. Damn that's "ol' school" muscle car stuff. Was it mounted on the stock BBS wheels? Well, I guess if it fits why not......but don't do any high speed cruisin, they are not designed for it. HTH

[pmlmotorsports]

good god, i'm running 225/50.

why are you running a tire (225/50-16) that is so undersized? Besides the smaller diameter, the load-rating is way lower. I'm sure it looks fine, but it's not really the safest measure according to most tire manufacturers. In fact, your local tire dealer can not install a tire with a lower load-rating then the OE manufacturer's specification. Typically, there is a 10%-20% reduction in load capacity from the standard 225/55-16or 215/55-16 fitment.
JM2C

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

or see it done? This sounds like what I should do and then use the stock bumpstops and cut them down.

The suspension guru Gary Derian on the Yahoo! M5 group described it that way. Perhaps you could join the group and search the archives as there is huge information on E34 dampers within.

As I'm sure you know, the Bilstein dampers upper diameter precludes use of OE bump stops.

Anthony

edit: http://www.bilstein.com/html/performance/patentedperformance.htm

This link shows the cross section of the front damper with the bump stop at the bottom.

Gary's text below:

I did this myself at first, then later sent the struts to Bilstein where
they installed the short and hard stops. The original stop is about 80mm
long. I shortened it to about 20mm.

Here is a cross section of a strut.
http://www.bilstein.com/html/performance/patentedperformance.htm

Notice the outer tube is pressed into the end plate which also has the shock
rod mounted to it. This is at the bottom of the strut. I clamped the end
plate in my bench vice and grabbed the tube. By twisting and pulling I was
able to pull the tube off the end plate. The tube is greased with red
synthetic grease on the inside and forms the bearing surface for the strut
housing to reciprocate.

When the strut insert is installed, the large nut that holds the insert into
the tube keeps the insert's outer tube firmly clamped into the end plate.

Gary Derian

[winfred]

it was pepboys crap and they are long gone, i don't like staggred tire sizes as it keeps you from rotating front to back, they were on the stock basketweaves


omg, a 265/50-15..........it's gotta be a BFGoodrich tire. Damn that's "ol' school" muscle car stuff. Was it mounted on the stock BBS wheels? Well, I guess if it fits why not......but don't do any high speed cruisin, they are not designed for it. HTH