Is there an alternative to Shell's LA3624 fluid for 540s?

[rnrn]

I've read that many have switched to Redline's ATF, but has anyone used any Amsoil products or Mobil1 ATF? I'm interested only because a lifetime fluid is a lifetime of ********. I spent too much money on my rebuild last year and WILL NOT leave this stuff in there indefinitely. Just looking for you opinions or experience.

[byurko]

After much engineering and testing, the Shell LA3624 is the only fluid ZF recommends. I wouldn't deviate - penny-wise pound foolish IMHO.
http://www.zf-group.com/am/pc/pt/ampcpt04.phtml

From ZF's website:

Q: What type of oil do I need to use in my ZF automatic transmission?
A: Each transmission needs a specific type of transmission fluid to operate properly. The use of incorrect transmission fluid may cause extensive damage to internal parts of the transmission and may bring the transmission right back to your shop. For a complete list of ZF recommended lubricants please refer to the lubrication list.

Q: Can I fill my 5HP30 transmission with ATF Dexron II instead of the oil specified? Why?
A: It is not recommended by ZF to use any lubricant other that those specified (see lubrication list). Use of any lubricant other than those specified by ZF may cause extensive damage to the clutch (friction) plates inside the transmission and the torque converter.

I bought a 20 liter container (Part #S671 090 149) from Transtar Industries - this is enough to do 2 changes. I paid about $10/liter (a much better deal than www.jie.com!)... They only sell to dealers/transmission shops, so just make up a name! Good luck!!

Transtar Industries, Inc.
Phone: (800) 359-3339 or (440) 232-5100
infodesk@transtarindustries.com

Bryan

[632 Regal]

no because other fluids can de-laminate the friction plates.

[Tiger]

I am using Pennzoil MultiVehicle Semi-synthetic ATF. I have it the car since last summer when I had my valve body rebuilt. The car has 6000 miles on that fluid so far. Nothing wrong at all. Same feeling as original Shell...

Funfer has used Mobil 1 ATF in his car... sold to his friend and he has 45K miles on it. Funfer doesn't use this forum anymore...

There was another guy who first used Pennzoil and then switched to Redline ATF... he likes Redline better... silkier and smoother shifting.

I also have 94 540i.

[prosenfe]

Hi all,
I've never posted before, so be patient if I somehow manage to screw this up. I called Shell to ask them where I could find this wonder fluid. They told me that the LA 3624 is a Euro spec fluid and only available there. For us in the States, the rep suggested either Pennzoil Multi-vehicle synthetic ATF or Quaker State Multi-vehicle synthetic ATF. Shell makes both of these oils so I suspect they are chemically similar to the 2634 oil. I queried the guy at some length and he seems to know what he was talking about. Not sure about Amsoil or Redline, but from what I've read, Mobil 1 recommends you not use their fluid in this trans. There is a letter on some threads purporting to be from a VP at Valvoline. It claims that their fluid is completely compatible with your tranny, and seems to warranty any problems it could cause. This might be an urban legend. I emailed Valvoline some time ago for clarification, but haven't yet gotten any reply.
Hope that helps.

Paul

[gale]

I e-mailed Amsoil's tech rep some time ago and he replied NOT to use Amsoil's ATF in ZF transmissions calling for the Shell LA2634.

[tim s]

he said LA 2634 for an original transmissions, but the rebuilt he sold me had the updated parts which allows the use of esso which is what he filled it with.
tim s.

[Mr._Graybeard]

The transmission in my '95 has had Pennzoil MVATF in it for more than 25000 miles. No catastrophic failure so far!

[632 Regal]

isn't both the Esso and Shell fluid correct fluids? I cant find my chart dammit. Bill R has postd it numerous times.
he said LA 2634 for an original transmissions, but the rebuilt he sold me had the updated parts which allows the use of esso which is what he filled it with.
tim s.

[Tiger]

Agreed... I used it siince 2001... 6 years and zero problem.

[Mr._Graybeard]

Agreed... I used it siince 2001... 6 years and zero problem.

Actually, I don't think I've seen anyone post on this forum saying they experienced failure in a smooth-working transmission after installing an aftermarket ATF that the fluid manufacturer recommended for use in the 5hp30. Maybe one or two where the tranny was already failing...

I have read a lot of warnings against doing it, particularly from professional techs like Kirt Koeller. Of course, they work in a different legal environment from the guy tinkering on his own car at home -- if they improvise and something goes wrong, they pay the bill. I can't blame 'em for wanting to go by the book.

[632 Regal]

there was a poll last year on this subject and the number of failed transmissions after the switch wouldnt have made me comfortable with experimenting with it.

Actually, I don't think I've seen anyone post on this forum saying they experienced failure in a smooth-working transmission after installing an aftermarket ATF that the fluid manufacturer recommended for use in the 5hp30. Maybe one or two where the tranny was already failing...

I have read a lot of warnings against doing it, particularly from professional techs like Kirt Koeller. Of course, they work in a different legal environment from the guy tinkering on his own car at home -- if they improvise and something goes wrong, they pay the bill. I can't blame 'em for wanting to go by the book.

[Mr._Graybeard]

there was a poll last year on this subject and the number of failed transmissions after the switch wouldnt have made me comfortable with experimenting with it.

Do you mean the one asking whether changing "lifetime" fluid kills transmissions? http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=15765

I liked that thread. Of course, that poll asked only if people had changed the fluid, not what they used as a replacement. And looking back at the seven in the poll who said their trannies died after a fluid change, four are driving 525s or 535s, judging from their profiles or posting histories. No lifetime fluid in any of those. Maybe we need a new poll asking the question that's on everybody's lips...

[Bill R.]

And everytime it does if i'm around here i look up the websites from the manufacturers and see if anything has changed.

I don't think of myself as a professional tech though i do consider myself a professional mechanic. I personally would not use the pennzoil fluid in my wifes steptronic which is coming up on 50k miles soon and i will be changing out the lifetime fluid. I have never used the pennzoil on any car which specified the Shell or Esso special fluids, I've always been able to convince my customers to stick with the correct fluid.

Anyway, when this popped up again, I went to ZF's website and to pennzoils website to see if anything has changed. Nope, ZF say's only use these fluids, pennzoil still isn't on the approved list. And Pennzoil makes a very specific statement to follow the manual recommendations for your bmw. Which is a far cry from the verbal statements that some of you have indicated that you've gotten from the pennzoil reps. Here are the pages from ZF's and Pennzoils current site as of 3/2007






Actually, I don't think I've seen anyone post on this forum saying they experienced failure in a smooth-working transmission after installing an aftermarket ATF that the fluid manufacturer recommended for use in the 5hp30. Maybe one or two where the tranny was already failing...

I have read a lot of warnings against doing it, particularly from professional techs like Kirt Koeller. Of course, they work in a different legal environment from the guy tinkering on his own car at home -- if they improvise and something goes wrong, they pay the bill. I can't blame 'em for wanting to go by the book.

[Tiger]

Esso is not as expensive as Shell fluid... so stick with Esso as most of the time you are just changing maybe 4 quarts... at let's say $18 a bottle... that only comes up to $72... Cheap enough.

Shell is $30 a quart... and with a full fluid change like mine when I did valve body rebuilt... it was about 12 quarts... and that is a freaking $360... No way.

Again... 6 years and zero problem. Older Pennzoil paper said all BMW except 7 speed tranny. I guess they are just covering their ass now.

[Mr._Graybeard]

And everytime it does if i'm around here i look up the websites from the manufacturers and see if anything has changed.

I don't think of myself as a professional tech though i do consider myself a professional mechanic. I personally would not use the pennzoil fluid in my wifes steptronic which is coming up on 50k miles soon and i will be changing out the lifetime fluid. I have never used the pennzoil on any car which specified the Shell or Esso special fluids, I've always been able to convince my customers to stick with the correct fluid.


I can relate to that. People come to you to do a job and do it right. They don't want to have to come back. You want to ensure that they're happy.

I took several deep breaths before I started pumping the Pennzoil MVATF into the trans of my newly acquired 540i two years ago. I had read the warnings, but frankly they seemed kinda vague. The clutch linings will dissolve... the check balls will melt... I know you've never suggested that, but I've read them, and it reminded me of warnings to accept the Savior..or else. Grandpa was a communist, and a Bad Finn. I was compelled by my genetic makeup to question authority.

All I can say at this point is that it's working. I did find links from this site to bmwseven.com regarding maintenance, and I have read that a technical adviser to that site, Chris Koch, has stated that Quaker State/Pennzoil MVATF is a suitable replacement for the Shell OE product. I suspect he based that on a spec sheet Tiger posted back in 2004. It's in the archives.


That's all I have to say on this thread. Koombayah.

[zhandax]

The clutches on my 94 540i have not delaminated in a year on the Penzoil MVATF. If that is the biggest fear, I would say I am in good shape. I did talk to one of the engineers at Shell before I put the stuff in and he told me that Shell makes the base oil and Esso made the additives. Seems like those two would have a pretty good idea what was in the original. I do still have the rough cold shift from 3-4 which I still attribute to lack of the updated valve body from Kirt. And it is not as bad as it used to be. All in all, I am quite satisfied (particularly at $6.50 a gallon from Jiffy Lube) although I do not do 40,000 miles a year like I used to. I will not blanket recommend that anyone do it, but I will keep everyone updated on how long my transmission lasts.

[BillionPa]

There is a letter on some threads purporting to be from a VP at Valvoline. It claims that their fluid is completely compatible with your tranny, and seems to warranty any problems it could cause. This might be an urban legend. I emailed Valvoline some time ago for clarification, but haven't yet gotten any reply.

the letter is legit, it was posted by Whitney Harrison, a Valvoline tech specialist back in august 2004. it states that Valvoline MERCON V can be used in place of "BMW LT71141 or LA2634 fluids".

it also states "Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MERCON V ATF. Use of MERCON V ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty."

that being said....
the product info on valvoline's site shows a revision in 10-04 replacing the previous from 6-04, so who knows, it might have said its ok for the esso and shell at one point, but was later removed.