OT: any alternatives to PayPal for accepting funds?

[MarkD]

Hello everyone,

I'm considering getting rid of PayPal as a method of payment for my chip website, as yesterday I noticed PayPal had frozen some funds. After spending 30 minutes on the phone at my expense, I was told that there appears to be some fraudulent activity occuring with the card used to process a payment to me. (6 weeks after the payment was made)
If this was the case, I consider it to be PayPal's problem, not mine. I am now looking for some good alternatives to PayPal, I want to find another payment solution by next week.

Has anyone got any suggestions? If you have direct experience with a company you recommend, that would be great. Here is one possiblilty I found, has anyone heard of them?

http://www.merchantplus.com/paypalalternative.php

Thanks

Mark

[uscharalph]

You could also just take Paypal balance funds and transfers from bank accounts only instead of credit cards thru PayPal. It seems there would be less chance of the type of problem you just had. Hope you get it worked out.

[pundit]

Hello everyone,

I'm considering getting rid of PayPal as a method of payment for my chip website, as yesterday I noticed PayPal had frozen some funds. After spending 30 minutes on the phone at my expense, I was told that there appears to be some fraudulent activity occuring with the card used to process a payment to me. (6 weeks after the payment was made)
If this was the case, I consider it to be PayPal's problem, not mine. I am now looking for some good alternatives to PayPal, I want to find another payment solution by next week.

Has anyone got any suggestions? If you have direct experience with a company you recommend, that would be great. Here is one possiblilty I found, has anyone heard of them?

http://www.merchantplus.com/paypalalternative.php

Thanks

Mark

I've only used PayPal twice (Ebay purchases) the second time I used it to pay for something I was informed an "Error has occured" and my payment could not be processed at this time. After checking to see if Ebay had registered the payment (it hadn't) I tried to pay a second time. Still the error message appeared. Then I checked my bank account to discover PayPal had pulled two payments from my account while Ebay was still prompting me to 'Pay Now'. After ten days of ringing my bank, PayPal and my card provider the money finally appeared back in my account. PayPal lists an Australian customer support phone number but it doesn't work. I had to ring the U.S. (international call rates) and spend nearly 20 minutes on the frigging.. "Press one, press two, press three"... merry go round only to be told I would have to dispute the payments if PayPal didn't refund my money after a week. Fortunately my money came back into my account and finally I managed to complete the payment correctly.

Did you know that PayPal can freeze your account and hold your funds for six months without you having any recourse whatsover. Just read their ULA!!

Personally I think PayPal is not much of a 'Pal' when things go wrong! :(

[shogun]

That is why I did so far not apply for Paypal.
Many people ask for it if you buy off Ebay. On the other hand it costs a lot to make a remittance from Japan. Even minimum charges for handling etc.

As I have now quite a number of used parts from my parts 750iL, I was already asked by several people in USA and Australia if I can deliver to them, but w/o Paypal or a similar system it is too expensive for both sides.
And: in Japan Paypal is not very known, as Yahoo auctions is much bigger than Ebay and they have their own system in Japan.
Really do not know what to do.

[TheGeak]

I heard google is working on something similar...

[Spasso]

Try Authorize.net or Verisign

I had a Paypal account until I read some of this stuff and heard first hand accounts from numerous people on another car site. Accounts frozen indefinitely!

http://www.paypalsucks.com/
http://www.paypalwarning.com/
http://paypalsuit.com/
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/


When I heard that they were not regulated by federal banking laws and the consumer had no recourse in a dispute I closed the account immediately.

I am not affiliated with any of the above websites.

DJ

[Spasso]

Here is an excerpt from a former employee. This is what convinced me to close my account. This is really scary stuff!


I was a "middle management type" with Pay-Pal until leaving recently- partally due to my disgust over their internal security policies which have led to the mountain of complaints seen on this and other similar boards. There aren't many PP whistleblowers; during your "exit interview" a soon-to-be-former manager is warned, intimidated and threatened against doing the very thing I'm doing right now. But since I left to start my own business, there's not a thing they can do to me.

Pay-Pal DID start as an honest, legitimate company with an innovative service concept. However, in my opinion, this concept can never actually WORK in the real world because there are legions of scammers all over the globe with reams of stolen credit card info and identifications just WAITING to swoop down on any new "payment service" like this that comes along. Credit-card transactions where the "card is not present" and thus personally examined by a clerk account for the overwhelming majority of fraud transactions.
Comparitavely, there's very LITTLE credit card fraud at Wal-Mart, because the cashieractually sees both you and the card- and can ask for supporting identification at the point of sale. Unfortunatly, the high-risk, "card not present" transactions are the ONLY kind of transaction a company like PP can do, and boy- did the con artists find them in a hurry!

The basic con was (and is) to use stolen identification information to open new PP
accounts, funnel money into them with stolen credit card numbers, then transfer the money
OUT of the account before PP gets the charge-back and can freeze it. Unfortunately, despite PP's claims of having a "tough anti-fraud program", these people are mostly impossible to catch, because when opening a new PP account, they DO have all the proper-appearing ID information (which was stolen or conned out of unsuspecting
individuals, most of whom have never HEARD of Pay-Pal). When fraud is uncovered and the account is checked out, the perp is almost never caught, since it was almost always opened under a stolen identity, and he's long abandoned the mail-drop.

Yes, the application process COULD be made more stringent, but it is felt (probably correctly) that a brand-new customer would certainly balk at doing things like sending in notorized copies of their driver's licence and so forth. So an alternate strategy" for offsetting the charge-back losses slowly evolved at PP. It's the perfect scheme really; since PP can't usually catch the scammers and dosen't want to loose customer base by making things more stringent to start with- they decided to simply re-coup their chargebacks from the pockets (and accounts) of good, solid people under the easily-defensible and impossible-to-criticize guize of "Fraud Prevention and Enforcement".. Simply put, if you're a seller and somebody pays you with a stolen credit card, you're targeted by PP security and might very well have your account siezed, investigated", closed- and the money retained by PP. (Yes... they simply "add" it to their revenues and spend it like any other income. You basically gave them permission to do this under the "terms and conditions" you originally agreed to. No, I KNOW you didn't really read it, but I bet you will the next time!). Even if the person paying you has NOT used a stolen credit card, he could have been been flagged by PP as "somebody to keep an eye on" for any one of numerous reasons. If he does business with YOU, especially multiple times- you're frozen.

OCCASIONALLY some lucky soul will complain about the siezure, and when the case is "investigated" by PP he is "cleared" and the money unfrozen. This good fortune has nothing to do with an actual "investigation" (there aren't any, really). Pay-Pal WILL unfreeze a small percentage of the accounts (as a future defense against a potential class action), so you MAY benefit from a simple luck of the draw. See, if it ever comes down to a
massive class-action lawsuit, or even testimony before the SEC or other regulatory body,
PP wants to be able to stand up in court and say "But your honor, we DON'T just freeze accounts and pocket the money. We really DO perform a painstaking investigation. Here's the proof... look at all these people who WERE suspected, but were then cleared by our "crack security staff"! If this was really a scam, why would we have given all of THIS this money back?"

I'm amused by the posts that say, "But I've been a good customer of PP since the beginning and have paid thousands in fees.... why would they have done this to ME?" Let me answer that with a hypothetical question: If you were an unregulated financial services company so embittered by fraud losses that you, yourself, had completely lost whatever moral compass you might have once possessed, what would YOU rather have: a happy,
content customer whos business might account for $5000 worth of fees over the next 10 years, or a person who's pissed off and will NEVER do business with you again, BUT you've got his $5000 up-front, TODAY- siezed directly out of his account with no appeal possible. Believe me, it's a no-brainer to these people. They have sort of developed a wierd corporate mindset wherein their past (and ongoing) victomization at the hands of con-artists somehow gives them license to "pass it along" to others. Think the E-Bay purchase will make it all better? Guess again. If ANY company knows the reality of on-line schermes and scams, it's E-Bay. While they certainly know that a nice chunk of their fee come from people who ultimately turn out to be thieves (but hey... their money is just as green as that of the honest folks) do you think E-Bay wants to open THEMSELVES (or a subsidary company) up to the same risks as their bidders are exposed to? No way.




On another issue, I see lots of complaints from those who have BOUGHT things and paid through PP who find their credit cards suddenly drained and/ or billed multiple times for the same transaction. The answer is simple; PP has very lax hiring procedures, ESPECIALLY compared to the standards any bank would impose on anybody employed in a similar position of trust. But don't forget- PP ISN'T a bank, so they feel no obligation to hire (and, of course, compensate) people as if they were. Unlike the "account freezing" thing, the scams pulled on buyer's credit cards aren't a part of any "master plan" by the company, but simply the work of some dishonest employees who nonetheless have access to ALL of a customer's personal information. Yes, it's scary. Schemes are rampent where a PP employee has a cousin or friend set up an account to receive payments in another name.

Since it's an "inside job", these "phantoms" will, of course, sail through the PP application process with flying colors- even if all of the infomation was simply "made up". Then your easily-accessable credit card number is used as payment for phony "auctions" and so forth done through the phantom account. The PP employee who actually approves this transaction might very be the one running the scheme! Given their system and the way the computers are networked together, this is pretty simple for almost any employee to do. Even if you DON'T have access to the PP customer database, you almost certainly have lunch in the break room or visit at the water cooler with someone who does. Many people have been quietly terminated for this (rarely, if ever prosecuted- since this would be a huge black eye for the company), and in reality, THIS is where the majority of PP security and
investigative resources go: to policing their shoddily-selected workforce.

[Qube]

Hello everyone,

I'm considering getting rid of PayPal as a method of payment for my chip website, as yesterday I noticed PayPal had frozen some funds. After spending 30 minutes on the phone at my expense, I was told that there appears to be some fraudulent activity occuring with the card used to process a payment to me. (6 weeks after the payment was made)
If this was the case, I consider it to be PayPal's problem, not mine. I am now looking for some good alternatives to PayPal, I want to find another payment solution by next week.

Has anyone got any suggestions? If you have direct experience with a company you recommend, that would be great. Here is one possiblilty I found, has anyone heard of them?

http://www.merchantplus.com/paypalalternative.php

Thanks

Mark


That was me :( Hope you got my email. The funds that came to me were from 'PayPal' funds and not credit card. But that goes through the loop. Someone, somewhere, used a credit card. The second link in the chain, the other fellow has contacted PayPal to clear up my end. Sorry, Mark!

This is the very reason that I left PayPal after they effectively destroyed my online business back in 2002. They have too much control of your funds, and can freeze/close/refund/chargeback on a whim. :(

Just to clear it up, no... it was not me that used a 'fraudulant card'. The funds going to you clearly noted PayPal account funded.

NB: Yes Mark, got your voicemail message too. Partial PayPal account funds are frozen as yours. For me it's been a few weeks already.

[rickm]

Bidpay might be an option, just see if you can do an account xfer instead of taking CCs.

[Qube]

BidPay has actually been quite good for me. The only problem is they do have a service charge which can be quite steep for low $$ transactions. Technically, they do not allow for payments outside of auctions, but of course, it works.

[bmwoohoo]

Mark ... I have been using Paypal for some Home Theater projector mounts that I have designed for the projectors I endorse. I have never had a problem using it. Whenever I accumulate any dollars I have it transferred so that if there is ever an issue the bank has to money.... not paypal.

If you ever read a merchant account contract it can be pretty grim for the seller. Even though you pay what would be considered to be an illegal interest rate for the use of the transaction there really is no protection if you get dinged by a crook.

Whatever you end up with make sure you read the fine print on your rights and remedies.

[gtopaul]

method available. It's the fastest too. I've been buying and selling with PayPal for 6 years with only minor problems, mostly my fault. I don't bid on auctions that don't take PayPal because I hate the time involved in sending a check or money order. I want stuff now not two weeks later. Considering the number of PayPal users there are now I would think, like Ebay, there are those that will have problems of one type or another but it's still the best game in town and the safest way to deal with overseas bidders. I don't let money accumulate in my PayPal account but transfer it to my bank account when it's more than a few hundred dollars. My only complaint is the cost of doing business through PayPal. Their fee's are high but it still works best for me.

Paul

[Qube]

method available. It's the fastest too. I've been buying and selling with PayPal for 6 years with only minor problems, mostly my fault. I don't bid on auctions that don't take PayPal because I hate the time involved in sending a check or money order. I want stuff now not two weeks later. Considering the number of PayPal users there are now I would think, like Ebay, there are those that will have problems of one type or another but it's still the best game in town and the safest way to deal with overseas bidders. I don't let money accumulate in my PayPal account but transfer it to my bank account when it's more than a few hundred dollars. My only complaint is the cost of doing business through PayPal. Their fee's are high but it still works best for me.

Paul

Simply transferring the money quickly to your bank account doesn't really solve much. Once someone somewhere manages to send bad funds (directly or indirectly), those funds are locked in your account. This may mean you have a negative balance. This also means that any money you receive will be put toward that negative balance. You LOSE MONEY! If your entire ACCOUNT is frozen, they do NOT stop you from receiving money (smart, PayPal), but you cannot access it either. It's ridiculous system.

[bmwoohoo]

Just saying I have not had a problem with thousands of transactions.

Each system has its issues with fraud. Do you blame the system, credit card company or the person performing the fraud?

[632 Regal]

just get a merchant account and a credit card machine, the machines arent very expensive for used and you can see if the cards are fraudulant or closed right away thus cutting out the pay pal middleman. You still will have transaction fees and such but its nice to be able to log into your accounts and see the money is there. With this setup you can simply use credit cards ONLY and simplify that end of your business.

I havent had any pay pal problems as to date tho.

[infinity5]

thats a good idea regal! I wonder how much merchant accounts are?

[632 Regal]

mine is 10 a month for statements which you dont need as you can print them on line, 30¢ each transaction ans whatever the CC companies charge for the transaction, about 1.5% total.

[Kalevera]

mine is 10 a month for statements which you dont need as you can print them on line, 30¢ each transaction ans whatever the CC companies charge for the transaction, about 1.5% total.
Jeff, what company do you use?

[632 Regal]

I am through a local deal the name escapes me but I switched to them after they solicited me. Ill post it tomorrow (today) but it dont really matter they fight for the biz.

[Qube]

I can't believe it! Yesterday I fax in the receipts showing actual address delivered and what not. Today, they approve the reversal for the buyer! What?!? I call them and they say they could not decipher the fax... so on that basis they refunded them money. LUDICROUS!

Now I have to file an appeal, to get this damn thing through. In the meantime, Mark and another fellows funds are on hold because of this. This is unacceptable. Seriously, I'm stupid for going back to PayPal. They have too much control and too little regulation. I'm sorry Mark, I should have done the EMT :|

*back to fighting with paypal*