Another failed emission test sob story

[Gayle]

This is not my car. It is the 90 525 that hubby trashed with lame maintenance. 200k miles overall but only 35 on rebuilt engine (timing belt broke). Have searched and read all the threads on smog and emisson. My question is there any specific problem that causes high levels of nitrogen oxide?

Here the readings:
15/25 RPM 1787/2782

15/25 %CO2 14.0/13.8
15/25 %O2 .6/.6 Did I read somewhere that CO2 and O2 are supposed to be about the same?

15/25 HC Max allowed 108/83 Our car 23/24
15/25 CO Max allowed .71/.58 Our car .11/.20

Not bad on HC and CO but so what. I read that all cars are ok on HC and CO and that is why they went to 4 or 5 gas tests. The print out doesn't give allowables or averages for CO2 or O2 so don't know if those readings are ok or not.

The killer
15/25 NO (PPM) Max 767/706 our car 884/1124 I feel personally responsible for acid rain now.

Here is the link to the most informative site I found, but doesn't say anything about NO.

http://www.visi.com/~rhayman/smog_faq.html#Catalyst%20Out

Told hubby to drive it and get the cat hot before test. He interpreted that to mean drive 5 minutes to the next freeway exit. He will get it really hot next time and will talk them into testing it hot. With 4 cars we are one of their best customers. Read today the cat needs to be 550. Does it really get that hot?

After reading all the prior posts here is my plan:

Got the oil changed today. Will put a new air filter in.

Did the stomp test. The check engine light blinked like it was supposed to but no codes came up. Don't know what to think about that. Any ideas?

I figure it is really dirty in there. About 3 months ago, hubby put STP oil treatment in there to deal with the value noise after consulting with the guy at Pep Boys who told him he needed to goop it up, not clean it out. Wince. It pains me to write that. It started running ragged and idling crappy after that but sort of got ok after I started putting Shell gas in it. After reading all the posts about seaform, I decided to cast my vote with Bill R and not do it. After reading all I could about the various products decided we are going the slow but safe way with auto-rx. In fact we are going to take a weekend roadtrip to San Francisco in the 525 so we can put a quick 1000 miles for the cleaning phase. (Don't worry. No pics).

Read a post on some random site that turned up in search about one possible cause for high NO might be clogged valve to EGR (emission gass recirculator). Can't find anything by that name in Bentleys. Do our cars have that? Different name? If there is something that does the same job as egr, would the auto-rx clean it? If not, is there a way to clean it? Any thoughts?

Did a novel thing. Looked under the hood. Saw two things that made me want to throw up. There was one hose that looked worse than Winfred's knee booger. There was something else that looked like it should be attached to another something and wasn't. I will have to take pictures and post to have someone tell me what they are so I can read about them I find out if they could be a part of this problem.

I am actually not sorry this happened. We will be selling it and I would like to get it to decent shape first. It is an education for me. Thanks for your help.

[EonPeon]

Gayle,

Go and get yourself one of those fuel saver magnets and stick it on your exhaust.

The magnets will hold back all the crap coming out of your engine and, hey presto, you pass your emissions test.

Do I win $5?




Ian

[pundit]

Gayle,

Go and get yourself one of those fuel saver magnets and stick it on your exhaust.

The magnets will hold back all the crap coming out of your engine and, hey presto, you pass your emissions test.

Do I win $5?
Ian
No but stick 'em on Ebay and you'll make $50,000.00! ;)

[winfred]

theres no egr on a m20 motor, the "rebuild in a can" in the oil and a cold cat could of screwed the test, a good italian tune up right before testing may do it good, our emissions testing consists of pressure testing the gas cap so i am not sure on the fine points

[Bill R.]

high performance cars with large lift cams and high compression also had very high levels of nox. Anything you do to reduce the amount of energy being produced will lower your nox levels. If your running regular instead of premium your nox will be higher since theres more energy being released in regular since it burns more rapidly, so running premium will make a little difference. Running the 10% ethanol blends will also help since this reduces the amount of power in the fuel also. which will lower combustion chamber temps. The cat is going to make the biggest difference, so make sure its completely warmed up and don't shut it down any longer than needed while waiting to be tested.
If its badly in need of a tuneup that will make a difference, anything that causes pinging will raise nox also.







This is not my car. It is the 90 525 that hubby trashed with lame maintenance. 200k miles overall but only 35 on rebuilt engine (timing belt broke). Have searched and read all the threads on smog and emisson. My question is there any specific problem that causes high levels of nitrogen oxide?

Here the readings:
15/25 RPM 1787/2782

15/25 %CO2 14.0/13.8
15/25 %O2 .6/.6 Did I read somewhere that CO2 and O2 are supposed to be about the same?

15/25 HC Max allowed 108/83 Our car 23/24
15/25 CO Max allowed .71/.58 Our car .11/.20

Not bad on HC and CO but so what. I read that all cars are ok on HC and CO and that is why they went to 4 or 5 gas tests. The print out doesn't give allowables or averages for CO2 or O2 so don't know if those readings are ok or not.

The killer
15/25 NO (PPM) Max 767/706 our car 884/1124 I feel personally responsible for acid rain now.

Here is the link to the most informative site I found, but doesn't say anything about NO.

http://www.visi.com/~rhayman/smog_faq.html#Catalyst%20Out (http://www.visi.com/%7Erhayman/smog_faq.html#Catalyst%20Out)

Told hubby to drive it and get the cat hot before test. He interpreted that to mean drive 5 minutes to the next freeway exit. He will get it really hot next time and will talk them into testing it hot. With 4 cars we are one of their best customers. Read today the cat needs to be 550. Does it really get that hot?

After reading all the prior posts here is my plan:

Got the oil changed today. Will put a new air filter in.

Did the stomp test. The check engine light blinked like it was supposed to but no codes came up. Don't know what to think about that. Any ideas?

I figure it is really dirty in there. About 3 months ago, hubby put STP oil treatment in there to deal with the value noise after consulting with the guy at Pep Boys who told him he needed to goop it up, not clean it out. Wince. It pains me to write that. It started running ragged and idling crappy after that but sort of got ok after I started putting Shell gas in it. After reading all the posts about seaform, I decided to cast my vote with Bill R and not do it. After reading all I could about the various products decided we are going the slow but safe way with auto-rx. In fact we are going to take a weekend roadtrip to San Francisco in the 525 so we can put a quick 1000 miles for the cleaning phase. (Don't worry. No pics).

Read a post on some random site that turned up in search about one possible cause for high NO might be clogged valve to EGR (emission gass recirculator). Can't find anything by that name in Bentleys. Do our cars have that? Different name? If there is something that does the same job as egr, would the auto-rx clean it? If not, is there a way to clean it? Any thoughts?

Did a novel thing. Looked under the hood. Saw two things that made me want to throw up. There was one hose that looked worse than Winfred's knee booger. There was something else that looked like it should be attached to another something and wasn't. I will have to take pictures and post to have someone tell me what they are so I can read about them I find out if they could be a part of this problem.

I am actually not sorry this happened. We will be selling it and I would like to get it to decent shape first. It is an education for me. Thanks for your help.

[Gayle]

theres no egr on a m20 motor, the "rebuild in a can" in the oil and a cold cat could of screwed the test, a good italian tune up right before testing may do it good, our emissions testing consists of pressure testing the gas cap so i am not sure on the fine points

I have seen references to italian tune ups and don't know what that means. Could you explain?

[winfred]

flogg it hard

[SRR2]

Prior to the widespread availablilty of "Three-way-catalysts", Exhaust Gas Recirculation was used to lower the peak combustion temperature in the cylinder to reduce formation of oxides of nitrogen. Your car doesn't have Exhaust Gas Recirculation, so it uses a three-way-catalyst to decompose NOx into its component parts. If you car is failing NOx and the italian tuneup doesn't work, it's NEW CAT TIME!!! Yay. It is a very good idea to run the emissions test with the cat as hot as possible.

If I were you I'd be kickin' the ass of anyone who even *thinks* about buying something that bears the dreaded STP initials. Not to mention taking the advice of some goober that works in a Pep Boys.

[TheGeak]

Italian Tune-Ups are just taking the car out and ROMPING on it. Get the engine really hot, the exhaust really hot, and redlining the motor and generally taking the car to its limits.

[winfred]

yea and if it farts out a good sized cloud the first couple times it hits the redline that's a good thing, thats the carbon

[Gayle]

If I were you I'd be kickin' the ass of anyone who even *thinks* about buying something that bears the dreaded STP initials. Not to mention taking the advice of some goober that works in a Pep Boys.[/QUOTE]


Yeah he has his talents though and car maintenance just isn't one of them. I have learned my lesson though and plan to make sure he has adult supervision with his new Highlander.

[Gayle]

Before I get to the photos

Bill R. Thanks for the suggestion about premium and the explanations. I am assuming I should get the tune up after doing the auto rx?

If there was a problem with the cat, wouldn't something have showed up in the stomp codes? How could I have no codes?

Someone tell me what these things are. I understand how the internal combustion engine works, cam shafts, crank shafts, injectors, etc. I just don't know what all this other stuff under the hood is. I need a map or I got to find someone to spend 30 minutes with me to say this is your___ and this is your ____. Bentleys doesn't label. Thanks for the tolerant help.

Pic 1

The thing that made me want to throw up was this withered, rotted, digusting, necrotic, dead thing that in last nights light I though was a hose. In todays light it just looks like insulation. It doesn't photograph well cause everything around it is the same "oil dusted with dirt" color. This thing is on the passenger side, comes out of a thing that looks like a slinky by the battery, covers something that looks like a metal pipe that goes in the direction of the passenger compartment. What is it? Should I be concerned with its condition?

Pic 2

Something on the driver's side, in this open space behind the radiator. It looks like one of those tuba shaped scoops on the decks of ships. It seems weird that it is there and open. Is it supposed to be that way or is it supposed to be connected to a part that isn't there?

[632 Regal]

#1 is the insulation for the AC, nothing real important, you can replace that anytime, has nothing to do with your emmisions.

#2 is the alternator cooling vent, again has nothing to do with emmisions and is supposed to be open like that.

[Kalevera]

#1 is the insulation for the AC, nothing real important, you can replace that anytime, has nothing to do with your emmisions.

#2 is the alternator cooling vent, again has nothing to do with emmisions and is supposed to be open like that.
True, but normally #2 goes into a fitted plastic shroud that lives behind the head light and next to the radiator...theory is that it vents cool(er) air than what would otherwise end up in it from the engine compartment.

Mine is all crunched up since the 540 radiator upgrade, and the alt's still running fine.

best, whit

[Jean@MtMiguel]

This is not my car. It is the 90 525 that hubby trashed with lame maintenance. 200k miles overall but only 35 on rebuilt engine (timing belt broke). Have searched and read all the threads on smog and emisson. My question is there any specific problem that causes high levels of nitrogen oxide?

Here the readings:
15/25 RPM 1787/2782

15/25 %CO2 14.0/13.8
15/25 %O2 .6/.6 Did I read somewhere that CO2 and O2 are supposed to be about the same?

15/25 HC Max allowed 108/83 Our car 23/24
15/25 CO Max allowed .71/.58 Our car .11/.20

Not bad on HC and CO but so what. I read that all cars are ok on HC and CO and that is why they went to 4 or 5 gas tests. The print out doesn't give allowables or averages for CO2 or O2 so don't know if those readings are ok or not.

The killer
15/25 NO (PPM) Max 767/706 our car 884/1124 I feel personally responsible for acid rain now.

Here is the link to the most informative site I found, but doesn't say anything about NO.

http://www.visi.com/~rhayman/smog_faq.html#Catalyst%20Out

Told hubby to drive it and get the cat hot before test. He interpreted that to mean drive 5 minutes to the next freeway exit. He will get it really hot next time and will talk them into testing it hot. With 4 cars we are one of their best customers. Read today the cat needs to be 550. Does it really get that hot?

After reading all the prior posts here is my plan:

Got the oil changed today. Will put a new air filter in.

Did the stomp test. The check engine light blinked like it was supposed to but no codes came up. Don't know what to think about that. Any ideas?

I figure it is really dirty in there. About 3 months ago, hubby put STP oil treatment in there to deal with the value noise after consulting with the guy at Pep Boys who told him he needed to goop it up, not clean it out. Wince. It pains me to write that. It started running ragged and idling crappy after that but sort of got ok after I started putting Shell gas in it. After reading all the posts about seaform, I decided to cast my vote with Bill R and not do it. After reading all I could about the various products decided we are going the slow but safe way with auto-rx. In fact we are going to take a weekend roadtrip to San Francisco in the 525 so we can put a quick 1000 miles for the cleaning phase. (Don't worry. No pics).

Read a post on some random site that turned up in search about one possible cause for high NO might be clogged valve to EGR (emission gass recirculator). Can't find anything by that name in Bentleys. Do our cars have that? Different name? If there is something that does the same job as egr, would the auto-rx clean it? If not, is there a way to clean it? Any thoughts?

Did a novel thing. Looked under the hood. Saw two things that made me want to throw up. There was one hose that looked worse than Winfred's knee booger. There was something else that looked like it should be attached to another something and wasn't. I will have to take pictures and post to have someone tell me what they are so I can read about them I find out if they could be a part of this problem.

I am actually not sorry this happened. We will be selling it and I would like to get it to decent shape first. It is an education for me. Thanks for your help.
Use --PREMIUM HIGH OCTANE--- gas, Chevron or Shell , change plugs,oil ,oil filter, air filter run it hot before smog check as what somebody recommended, and most likely you'll pass. California smog test is one of the strictest so far but knowing how to prepare your car can ease up those anxieties. Also, the smog technician who did my BMW last time stated low octane gas tend to give high readings for failure. Did you pass the gas cap test? My other car MB300E passed everything except the gas cap test and the smog only facility sold me an OEM cap twice as much as regular price from my indy retailler, just to let you know the the slimy business some of those smog places do run. Good luck on your next stop to the smog place.

[Gayle]

I agree with everything you said. It did pass all the visuals including the gas cap.

[Gene in NC]

What the Hell is aoto rx. Every car manufacturer does their CAFE tests with Techron in the fuel. Wonder why. Run Techron acording to directions on the can and run Shell i test. You will be pleasantly surprised. Run only Shell or Cheveon 89. Good stuff.

[Gayle]

The dreaded CA smog test gave me big black FAIL last time on the nitrous oxide last time.

Passing is 706 PPM and Hubby's neglected 525 scored 1124 PPM last time. Was the queen of acid rain. This time scored 570 PPM. 50% drop in nitrous oxide.

Here is what I did. No sure which made the difference. Maybe the combination.

Did run the auto rx through the oil for 1000 miles. It is a slow decarbonizer. Did it not so much to pass the smog, but to undo the evil caused by Hubby putting STP in. No valve noise after he put the stp in but it ran like _____ after he did that. The first 20 miles after putting the auto rx in could hear the valves again as it started to clean. This step was really more to get it ready to sell but I think it helped a lot.

Drove it to San Francisco for weekend to put quick 1000 miles on with the auto rx in it and drove it hard (Italian tune up). Also started running premium. Thanks to Bill R for that suggestion. It ran much, much better. Don't know if it was the auto rx or the premium but these two things in combination made a huge improvement in power and smoothness and idling. All kinds of things seem better. Valve noise is fine. Even the clutch seems better and I know it shouldn't make any difference.

Got oil change, new plugs, and air filter.

This time Hubby got it hot before test like I told him to do last time. He got them to test it while hot.

Thought it would pass this but was amazed at improvement. All other categories of emission improved like O2 dropped to zero.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions.