In the market...(E34 Newbie)

[integrale]

Hi all!

I'm looking to get an E34 for less than $7000 in the New England area, but I can't seem to find a consensus on the cars. I'm concerned, of course, about reliability (and cost of repairs) and winter driving. I love the way they look, and I love the way bimmers drive, so I'm definitely serious about getting one, I'm just not sure it's the right move.

What I've heard:

-525/530 are much more reliable than 535/540 because of sulphur somethingorother in the V8s.

-The bodies last forever, except for some rust under the doors

-They're ungodly expensive to get repaired

-RWD w/o TC in snow is suicide (I've only driven FWD and AWD in snow, though I did drive an E39 M5 in the rain).

Do you have anything to add? When I go to look at these cars, what should I ask and check out? Should I take the car to a BMW repair shop or a general auto shop to get it checked out? How much are clutches, brakes, radiators, belts...that kind of thing?

I'd really appreciate some info from you experts out there. Thanks a lot.

-int

[shogun]

As a starter read this
http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/what_will_break.htm

[Gayle]

http://www.bmw4life.com/buyingE34.htm

http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/what_will_break.htm


Unless you can work on it yourself, they are expensive to keep on the road and then they are still expensive to keep on the road. (1,000-2,000 a year is my guess based on experience.) You can buy parts at much less than dealer prices and that helps.

Buying a bmw is a decision of the heart not the head. We all love these cars and driving them and trying to make them like new again. You must have that in you or you wouldn't be considering it.

Understand that things will break. If you buy one, it will have things broken that you will discover in the first month. People freak at first and think that they have a lemon--not so. A lot of the stuff is small and no big deal really if you understand what is going on. Repairs just become a hobby.

You can get lots of help on this board and have lots of fun with the car. This is not meant to discourage you--just a realistic description of e34 ownership.

[ArtemLepilov]

Hey - basically from what ive learned, a BMW is a BMW but it is also a car and it can be treated as such with green coolant (instead of the BMW kind) and all other stuff... now in some cases it of course is more delicate but take good care of it, change oil regularly and it will last you a long time.

Now heres my story - i just got a 525I from 1991 with a slightly leaky valve gasket, low tranny fluid, blown front shocks and a few other things such as a rebuilt title and a broken front windshield. I got all that for $1200, ive put about $300 into it so far and it looks great... Im about to put another $200 into it to get new wheels (mine are leaking air) and a few more hundreds to do tihngs like oil change, tranny fluid top off, etc... And i have a completely working car after. Basically if it is your first bimmer and you want a possibly really good one - get a really cheap 525I, talk the guy down/whatever - get it really cheap and learn to fix it yourself (its really cheap to maintain to do it yourself) 525I is a great car to learn to fix cars on and if you screw up big time - hey, theres always a transplant you can do like putting in an M3 motor in the car or an M5after you've saved up like $5k on your purchase (from $7k) - you can get a LOT of power from that car...)

Sincerely, Artem Lepilov

[uscharalph]

Hi all!

I'm looking to get an E34 for less than $7000 in the New England area, but I can't seem to find a consensus on the cars. I'm concerned, of course, about reliability (and cost of repairs) and winter driving. I love the way they look, and I love the way bimmers drive, so I'm definitely serious about getting one, I'm just not sure it's the right move.

What I've heard:

-525/530 are much more reliable than 535/540 because of sulphur somethingorother in the V8s.

-The bodies last forever, except for some rust under the doors

-They're ungodly expensive to get repaired

-RWD w/o TC in snow is suicide (I've only driven FWD and AWD in snow, though I did drive an E39 M5 in the rain).

Do you have anything to add? When I go to look at these cars, what should I ask and check out? Should I take the car to a BMW repair shop or a general auto shop to get it checked out? How much are clutches, brakes, radiators, belts...that kind of thing?

I'd really appreciate some info from you experts out there. Thanks a lot.

-int
From my experience: (1) Get it checked out by an experience mechanic to especially see if something major is ready to go. (2) Repair records are very important. It's always nice to know that the maintence items have been replaced in a timely manner. They are also important to setup what items you need to get to next. And (3) the better the interior / exterior the better. You can spend a lot of money replacing seats, door panels, head liners and the dash; as well as the exterior. You are going to want to do it after you start driving the car, so it's best to get it upfront and concentrate on getting it's maintenace up to speed.

Good Luck!

[pundit]

Hi all!

I'm looking to get an E34 for less than $7000 in the New England area, but I can't seem to find a consensus on the cars. I'm concerned, of course, about reliability (and cost of repairs) and winter driving. I love the way they look, and I love the way bimmers drive, so I'm definitely serious about getting one, I'm just not sure it's the right move.

What I've heard:

-525/530 are much more reliable than 535/540 because of sulphur somethingorother in the V8s.

-The bodies last forever, except for some rust under the doors

-They're ungodly expensive to get repaired

-RWD w/o TC in snow is suicide (I've only driven FWD and AWD in snow, though I did drive an E39 M5 in the rain).

Do you have anything to add? When I go to look at these cars, what should I ask and check out? Should I take the car to a BMW repair shop or a general auto shop to get it checked out? How much are clutches, brakes, radiators, belts...that kind of thing?

I'd really appreciate some info from you experts out there. Thanks a lot.

-int

If you want power, & must have traction control, etc. get a 540 (preferably Alusil)

I don't think I'd bother with a 530 as the maintenance is about the same as a 540 with marginally better fuel economy and much less ooomph!!

If you want something simpler & less expensive to maintain get a 535i (manuals are more fun).

Remember these are not particular economical vehicles especially for city commuting. On the h'way however they're not too bad.

Buy the best E34 you can afford and get it checked out before you agree to hand over the cash.

It's better to pay extra now and get a good example, then just keep the maintenance up, than buy a 'bargain' (read **** barge) and forever pour $$$ into it from here to eternity!! ;)

[Gayle]

It's better to pay extra now and get a good example, then just keep the maintenance up, than buy a 'bargain' (read **** barge) and forever pour $$$ into it from here to eternity!! ;)

Totally agree. There is no such thing as a bargain BMW.

[Gooch]

I'm out near Worcester. 1994 525 Manual, 128K miles. White w/ silver grey interior. Winter and summer tires.

Contact me at gucc@charter.net

[Jason]

I wouldn't overlook the 535i and im not being biased. the M30 "Big Six" is often called bullet proof. It might even be a little easier on the wallet to maintain than the V8s and offers little compromise. Try to find a 5spd and you'll be happy with it. Budget 1-2k/yr on it like Gayle said and read the link that shogun posted for you. Also, there is a list of local indy's on this site that you can take it to for a pre-purchase inspection. if you don't find one in your area look up your local cca chapter and they will have some input im sure. it will be the best 75-150 bucks you ever spend. If you get the car get a bentley serivce manual. it will become your bible. If you want to know prices check out www.bmaautoparts.com alot of people here use them and they are cheap (relatively). Also, see if you can find someone with a good a car in good shape and go for a ride in it so you know what to expect. As for snow... the car has 50/50 weight distribution (i beleive) combine that with a good set of snows and a manual tranny and you should be in good shape. The car has amazed me in the winter. Ownership will have its highs and lows, but if you get the right car it will be a rewarding experience.

[JonE]

What I've heard:

-525/530 are much more reliable than 535/540 because of sulphur somethingorother in the V8s.
Probably should read 525/535 reliable and 530/540 (these are the V8s) can have Nikisil engine issue.

-The bodies last forever, except for some rust under the doors.
Correct, check under the "rust traps" to see whether just surface rust or rusted through. If rusted through, look for better doors (rust free)

-They're ungodly expensive to get repaired
Not too bad if using above listed sources for parts and DIY will make a huge difference. One thought is to look for a well maintained E34 with records, strangely, it might be better to get a good one with over 100K miles on it as many things seem to break around the 100K mark (see Bruno's site listed earlier). Also, alot of luck involved it seems. By the way, I like my automatic, don't discount them, the ZF tranny's might have better reliability than the GM trannys (again, look for maintenance records and previous owners with a light foot).

-RWD w/o TC in snow is suicide (I've only driven FWD and AWD in snow, though I did drive an E39 M5 in the rain).
Ok, I had previously driven mostly FWD Saabs and Audis and was concerned about the RWD (memories of my parents' old Mustang and LTD in the snow...), but got a set of Blizzaks with steel rims and was quite surprised/pleased at how well it handles our Minnesota winters. Oh, and my car doesn't have traction control, but does have limited slip diff. which helps some more.
Be sure to post more questions/concerns prior to buying, as you noticed there is plenty of help and advice available to you here!
JonE

[DaCan23]

If its a V-8 that has been rebuilt way back when under warranty usually theres no concern.

I can not imagine living w/o my 530iA, after 5 years and about 60k miles it has never let me down, except when the radiator neck was broke and the upper hose would not stay attached.

Well maintained & cared for an E34 is a joy to own.

My car has ASC as most do, and in the winter w/ a good set of snow tires, you'd be surprised how well it drives, I live in Mass.

They are expensive to maintain and w/o doin some/most of the work yourself they can put a hurtin on the wallet.

In New England there are a lot of E34s for sale, some well maintained, some not. I can recommend some Indys that can inspect a car if you bring it to them. On the occasion my car goes to a mechanic, it only goes to places that specialize in BMWs.

W/ this board and the resources it provides for parts & help, it makes life a lot easier.


Hi all!

I'm looking to get an E34 for less than $7000 in the New England area, but I can't seem to find a consensus on the cars. I'm concerned, of course, about reliability (and cost of repairs) and winter driving. I love the way they look, and I love the way bimmers drive, so I'm definitely serious about getting one, I'm just not sure it's the right move.

What I've heard:

-525/530 are much more reliable than 535/540 because of sulphur somethingorother in the V8s.

-The bodies last forever, except for some rust under the doors

-They're ungodly expensive to get repaired

-RWD w/o TC in snow is suicide (I've only driven FWD and AWD in snow, though I did drive an E39 M5 in the rain).

Do you have anything to add? When I go to look at these cars, what should I ask and check out? Should I take the car to a BMW repair shop or a general auto shop to get it checked out? How much are clutches, brakes, radiators, belts...that kind of thing?

I'd really appreciate some info from you experts out there. Thanks a lot.

-int

[integrale]

Thanks for all your input. This is the first place I've heard balanced answers to those questions. Usually I either get, "they're terrible and you'll die poor," or, "nothing ever goes wrong, it's all a myth." Thanks for giving me the gray.

You all do seem to agree that they're expensive to own, which could be a problem. I'm just graduating from college, so I don't know what my financial situation's going to look like in a year or so. I could always sell it, yes, but that's a lot of time/effort/money to spend just to be happy with the car I own, especially if I'll spend $2k repairing it.

The only other car I'm seriously considering is a later model Accord. The problem is that I want both a sedan and a manual transmission, so I'm not left with much - really only Honda, BMW, Audi, and the Maxima. I'd take an Accord over a Maxima and a 3 or 5 over an A4, so it's down to the 3er, 5er, and the Accord. I much prefer the looks and options of the E34 over E36 (though E30 is tempting), so...then there were two. Not exactly competing cars, but that's how I ended up with this choice - boring but reliable vs. enjoyable but risky.

I know a good amount about cars, but I've never worked on them - it's academic knowledge. I'm also pretty lazy. I want this to make sense because I love the 5 series, but I don't think it does.

I like the idea of getting a car with 120k mi or so, one that has already had all the work done. Are the problems inherent to the design or are they all just caused by wear and tear? In other words, if someone's replaced the suspension already, what're the chances I might be doing it again in 10k miles?

I might only own this car for a year or so. Maybe I could get lucky and only drive it during a problem-free window of time...does such a thing exist?

[DaCan23]

With the E34, everthing starts to need replacing between 80-120k Miles, and then with good parts they wont need replacing for another 60-100k miles. Where as cheaper cars need the original parts replaced between 45-75k miles, and the replacements barely last another 40k miles. When you think about it, its all routine things that would come up in any car. But who would want to spend thousands on repairs on a high mileage honda or something when the car isnt worth that much before and after the maintenance.

But for most of us its, the money really doesnt matter. I'd take my E34 over any car that my friends have, and at 150k miles and 11 years old, theres no comparison to the quality it still has.

When my car was in the body shop last fall, I had a brand new Altima for 2 weeks..... absolutely hated it.... wasnt even half the car my E34 is... My E24 rides better than most brand new cars and its 20 yrs old!!

IMHO a well cared for 10yr old BMW is still better than most brand new cars.

[uscharalph]

With the E34, everthing starts to need replacing between 80-120k Miles, and then with good parts they wont need replacing for another 60-100k miles. Where as cheaper cars need the original parts replaced between 45-75k miles, and the replacements barely last another 40k miles. When you think about it, its all routine things that would come up in any car. But who would want to spend thousands on repairs on a high mileage honda or something when the car isnt worth that much before and after the maintenance.

But for most of us its, the money really doesnt matter. I'd take my E34 over any car that my friends have, and at 150k miles and 11 years old, theres no comparison to the quality it still has.

When my car was in the body shop last fall, I had a brand new Altima for 2 weeks..... absolutely hated it.... wasnt even half the car my E34 is... My E24 rides better than most brand new cars and its 20 yrs old!!

IMHO a well cared for 10yr old BMW is still better than most brand new cars.
Amen!

[BobHarris]

I had a 93 UK 518 for 5 years and 80,000 miles with no real problems at all, until I crashed it. It had 200,000 miles on it at the end.

That and the fact that they are great cars was why I bought another e34 with the insurance money.

HTH

All the best

Bob

[jv9999]

The 525 and 535 are pretty reliable. I have a '95 525i with 194K on it. Everything is original except for the fuel pump, battery, A/C condensor, oxygen sensors, and the front end bushings and struts. Pretty hard to complain about that. Even the clutch is original (it's a 5 spd).

[integrale]

Ok, so I've looked at two 525's. One was a 1991 with ~150k mi, which was awful. The other was a 1995 with 100k which was spectacular. Both manuals. The '95 is green/tan with wood trim, premium all around. Orig. clutch is getting old and the brakes squeal (dealer said it was because of special BMW brakes that need to get rust off...but it sounded an awful lot like the "low pad" warning squeal). Near perfect int/ext; only problems are a bum maplight and a window that doesn't work, both of which they'll fix. Also the power headrests don't work (who cares).

My guess is that I'd need to replace the clutch in 10-15k and that the brakes might need work. I'd want them to do an alignment and recenter the steering (10 deg off to the right, hehe). They've done the suspension and replaced all the rubber mounts and stuff. Tranny's in great shape, and it reminded me a lot of the E39 M5 I drove. Engine pulls hard and smooth. Leather is good, power everything works, but the buttons are a little worn so you have to push hard to change CD tracks or to turn on/off the heated seats.

The big problem: $10,000.

Assuming I could - for some reason - get it for 8,000-8,500...would I be getting a good car? What could I expect to sell the car for in 2 years with 120,000 mi, it having been garaged 1/3-1/2 of the time?

Any thoughts? Should I look for a car with a little less pizzaz? I'll take it to a mechanic before I seriously consider buying, of course...what should I tell him to look for?

Heads were literally turning (and kids stopped on bikes) when I drove this thing around.

[Kalevera]

Ok, so I've looked at two 525's. One was a 1991 with ~150k mi, which was awful. The other was a 1995 with 100k which was spectacular. Both manuals. The '95 is green/tan with wood trim, premium all around. Orig. clutch is getting old and the brakes squeal (dealer said it was because of special BMW brakes that need to get rust off...but it sounded an awful lot like the "low pad" warning squeal). Near perfect int/ext; only problems are a bum maplight and a window that doesn't work, both of which they'll fix. Also the power headrests don't work (who cares).

My guess is that I'd need to replace the clutch in 10-15k and that the brakes might need work. I'd want them to do an alignment and recenter the steering (10 deg off to the right, hehe). They've done the suspension and replaced all the rubber mounts and stuff. Tranny's in great shape, and it reminded me a lot of the E39 M5 I drove. Engine pulls hard and smooth. Leather is good, power everything works, but the buttons are a little worn so you have to push hard to change CD tracks or to turn on/off the heated seats.

The big problem: $10,000.

Assuming I could - for some reason - get it for 8,000-8,500...would I be getting a good car? What could I expect to sell the car for in 2 years with 120,000 mi, it having been garaged 1/3-1/2 of the time?

Any thoughts? Should I look for a car with a little less pizzaz? I'll take it to a mechanic before I seriously consider buying, of course...what should I tell him to look for?

Heads were literally turning (and kids stopped on bikes) when I drove this thing around.
Buying from a dealer or even a typical used car lot is going to add a lot of expense to the equation. $10k is quite high, even if everything worked. That's "perfect" 540/6 territory. At 100k, a 1995 shouldn't have button problems. Headrests are likely an easy fix. The dealer probably thinks it needs new seats or headrest assemblies. Use that factor to your advantage if you're serious about the car.


I also wouldn't trust them to do the work; they see you as a potential customer willing to pay their premium, and they'll do everything to keep their costs VERY low on work you want done to seal the deal. That means that it'll probably be done poorly. Negotiate the price down based on the defects and fix them yourself.

Case in point: they replaced some or all of the front end and didn't do an alignment. That's cheap.

The window issue could be any of the following: the regulator itself/sticky track/two bum buttons (if a rear window -- fronts, check the central switch), bad general module, bad relay module.

best, whit

[moogplayer]

Based on prices I've seen, I'd say that '95 is closer to the $6500-7000 range based on what you described. '95 is a great year for the E34 though

[integrale]

Think I should call 'em up and offer $7k and demand they replace the clutch? I'm thinking this is one I should walk away from...

If they're willing to let it go for a reasonable price (which would be much less than their asking price) then there's probably something wrong. If not, I'm paying a lot of money for an old car.

[Kalevera]

There are three ways to buy an E34 (or any used car, in general):

1) Buy a project for little to very little money, then spend the difference in inital price and $10k to make it "perfect". "Acceptable" is less money. People rarely get rid of these cars because they're working perfectly: they're either sick of continual, high maintenance costs or they don't want to spend the money to get something fixed.

2) Buy a car from a bonified enthusiast, one who is sorry to see it go and whose nagging wife/husband won't let them keep it AND that new M5. Usually the price is less than $10k, depends on what you get. Usually these kinds of cars come with meticulous service records....always a good thing. You should've been looking a few months ago; everyone "spring cleans" and that means it's a buyer's market.

3) Buy a car from a dealer or used car lot, pay their vacation money markup and get little vehicle history. Likely end up spending more in the long run than the 10k figure that is associated with options #1 and #2. Don't forget what I mentioned earlier about used car salesmen and the kind of work they'll have done to get you to buy what you think you want.

#2 is the way to go.

best, whit

[laguner]

The “Nikasil Problem” is a serious problem that affects all BMW motor cars with engine blocks with “Nikasil” liners in their alloy block when high sulphur fuel has been used. This is 8-cylinder models with the M60 engine made from approximately 1993 to 1996, and 6-cylinder models with the M52 engine made between 1995 and 1998 (note M52 Nikasil engine never went to the USA). The “Nikasil issue” is extremely serious as the final result is a non-functioning engine. The material “Nikasil” is also known as “Galnikal”. "Nikasil" is a very hard dispersion layer of galvanically (electrolytically) applied Nickel applied to the soft alloy bores to prevent wear. If this hard layer is damaged, excessive bore wear occurs rapidly.

BMW released the M60B30 and M60B40 V8's with the 93 model year 5,7 and 8 series. These engines ran until the 95 model year. From the 96 model year, they were replaced by the M62B44. The 3.0L was dropped in the US, but the rest of the world got the M62B35, a 3.5 liter V8.

[SharkmanBMW]

another post brought back from the dead?!!!!!

[angrypancake]

do people not read dates when they post?

[632 Regal]

I look for out dated posts and revive them anticipating bringing dead cars back to life...Especially the Nikasil issue

*rubs hands anticipating searching for real debates*
:D :D :D