Well, I think i'm finally going to sell the 535... I think its

[Bill R.]

time to put my money where my mouth is. I have one customer who's going to buy the van as soon as i fix some of the small details that i want right before i sell and one customer who's been wanting the 535 for over a year, I've been spending more and more time at the various prius sites and think its about time to get one as soon as i do the payoff on the wagon.. so even though i hate to see it go I think its probably time..

[Jeff N.]

oh nooooo..... that means I'm going to now have to buy a Prius toooo. :D

[bimmerd00d]

Just promise you'll come back to the life of the E34 sedan!!!! I strayed to the e39, but after a few months of owning it i can promise my next car will be a well-suited e34.

[bahnstormer]

a prius? wtf for???
funny story, my friend just bought a mk4 golf tdi and drove it to purdue from nj,
50mpg avg...his dad made the same trip in his prius, 47mpg

heheheh

needless to say, prius owners are idiots. =]

[Jeff N.]

On the open road, the Prius has to use it's combustion engine for the load. In town, it can regenerate energy via braking then appy it thru the electic motor. The Golf TDI doesn't have that advantage.

Moral: Choose your weapon based on where you spend the bulk of your time.



a prius? wtf for???
funny story, my friend just bought a mk4 golf tdi and drove it to purdue from nj,
50mpg avg...his dad made the same trip in his prius, 47mpg

heheheh

needless to say, prius owners are idiots. =]

[93-525i]

The Golf is very easy to fix with any motor issues that may arrise. The prius? Well, good luck after the warranty goes :)

[uscharalph]

time to put my money where my mouth is. I have one customer who's going to buy the van as soon as i fix some of the small details that i want right before i sell and one customer who's been wanting the 535 for over a year, I've been spending more and more time at the various prius sites and think its about time to get one as soon as i do the payoff on the wagon.. so even though i hate to see it go I think its probably time..
Hopefully you'll be back.

[Lennyz525i]

LOL, what's a Prius?

It sounds fuel efficient, but give me the legendary, fuel slurping 535 any day!

[Bill R.]

idiot. I talk to 3 prius owners here that all own the 2nd generation prius and they all have lifetime fuel usage averages over 50 mpg, thats city and highway. Most prius owners that check mileage versus the computed gas mileage say that the computer is about 1.5 to 2 mpg on the conservative side. As far as comparing it to a golf tdi, i work on vw's and wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy, they've gone from one of the best cars in my opinion back in the 60's and 70's to one of the worst now. The tdi is better than most vw's but still far to troublesome for me. Toyota's reputation with the prius is unmatched. Even if you keep one for a year only and take the tax credit the odds are good you can get what you paid for it based on current resale values for them. The electric hermetic compressor powered ac makes it worth the price of admission to me alone. The atkinson cycle engine that they use still has a lot more potential for future gains also. Not to mention the number of people now who are making their priuses into plug in hybrids really increasing mileage into the 150 to 250 mpg areas for city commuters.
Plus its a new technology thats coming to everybody and i thought i had better start learning now. The last thing i am concerned with is what happens after the warranty runs out. I think i'll be able to handle it. And the battery and associated hybrid components are warranteed by toyota for 8 years or 100k anyway.







a prius? wtf for???
funny story, my friend just bought a mk4 golf tdi and drove it to purdue from nj,
50mpg avg...his dad made the same trip in his prius, 47mpg

heheheh

needless to say, prius owners are idiots. =]

[Zeuk in Oz]

Very laudable !
Only problem, IMHO, is that they handle like...like....like....well like a Toyota !
Wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
I cannot understand why they can't make the Prius more like a real car when it comes to the enjoyment side of things - why not the best of both worlds ?
If they are available where you are, I would choose one of the second generation CDI diesels in the latest 530d or even better the 535d.
Fuel efficiency; get up and went; and real driving pleasure ! :D

[skr]

buy yourself a 524 td :)

[Jeff N.]

...that handling and high mileage are not 100% compatible. Fat tires in particular increase rolling drag. Of course, lots of rubber gives you lots of stick too.

I agree the euro-diesels are looking pretty sweet. Wish they would make it to the states. VW reputation aside, the Toureg turbo diesel sure looks like a heck of a rig. Be fun to try a bimmer diesel. Know a guy with an E28 turbo diesel, he loves it. Over 30 something MPG on the highway at 70+. whoohoo!





Very laudable !
Only problem, IMHO, is that they handle like...like....like....well like a Toyota !
Wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
I cannot understand why they can't make the Prius more like a real car when it comes to the enjoyment side of things - why not the best of both worlds ?
If they are available where you are, I would choose one of the second generation CDI diesels in the latest 530d or even better the 535d.
Fuel efficiency; get up and went; and real driving pleasure ! :D

[Dan in NZ]

I just read today that the 3.0 Jeep Grand Cherokee CDi is half a second quicker to 100kph than the 4.7L V8, and has even more torque than the 5.7 Hemi... All with something like 11L/100K compared to about 15L/100km of the 4.7. Hybrids aside, diesels have got to be the future!

[ryan roopnarine]

im all for things that can be done NOW without having to engineer things...but i've read two articles and seen one tv spot about the plug in hybrid, all of them say the battery cost in addition is around $10k usd, and all of the bits i saw/read tried to trivialize the power consumption by saying that it only used "as much as a hair dryer" or "as much as a microwave" 1500 watts continuously overnight somewhat subtracts from the 150mpg the inventors tout. do you have any numbers as to the consumption of the plug in bill? me, personally, do not feel as though biodiesel is a good thing in the long run...right now? i hope that as many people as possible convert to it, its a very available stop gap measure that doesn't require extensive engineering, but it will obviously stop being attractive when everybody starts running on the stuff. after driving on the highway friday, and seeing that people were driving FASTER rather than slower on the highway, in spite of current fuel prices, well, i think that one of the smartest things bush could do right now was implement a national 65mph speed limit, before gas hits the magical $3.10 or $3.12 that it was in 1980.


idiot. I talk to 3 prius owners here that all own the 2nd generation prius and they all have lifetime fuel usage averages over 50 mpg, thats city and highway. Most prius owners that check mileage versus the computed gas mileage say that the computer is about 1.5 to 2 mpg on the conservative side. As far as comparing it to a golf tdi, i work on vw's and wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy, they've gone from one of the best cars in my opinion back in the 60's and 70's to one of the worst now. The tdi is better than most vw's but still far to troublesome for me. Toyota's reputation with the prius is unmatched. Even if you keep one for a year only and take the tax credit the odds are good you can get what you paid for it based on current resale values for them. The electric hermetic compressor powered ac makes it worth the price of admission to me alone. The atkinson cycle engine that they use still has a lot more potential for future gains also. Not to mention the number of people now who are making their priuses into plug in hybrids really increasing mileage into the 150 to 250 mpg areas for city commuters.
Plus its a new technology thats coming to everybody and i thought i had better start learning now. The last thing i am concerned with is what happens after the warranty runs out. I think i'll be able to handle it. And the battery and associated hybrid components are warranteed by toyota for 8 years or 100k anyway.

[Hector]

ride. As you know, other vehicle manufactures are jumping on the hybrid bandwagon such as Ford Motor Company with its first commercially available Escape Hybrid SUV, for this year. Of course, I wouldn't buy anything from them until I saw some reliability history records. Toyota Motor Corporation will also be promoting hybrid versions of the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX400 SUVs for this year as well. Honda will be venturing on the hybrid version of the Accord for this year too, and the list will go on... I made up my mine a while back to get a hybrid. It's just a matter of time. Here at work, 5 people own the Prius and one guy owns an Insight There are talks among other colleagues who are contemplating purchase... and its on the horizon for many of them. Show us pics when you get the ride. Enjoy it, and tell us your experiences!

[Zeuk in Oz]

diesels have got to be the future!

Welcome aboard !
I have a ML270 CDI, 2.2 tonnes, which averages 9.5 litres per 100km around town and 8 on a trip. That is driving all 4 wheels and the aerodynamics of a block of flats (apartments) !
That is a first generation engine with only 400 Nm of torque. The latest jeep has 510 Nm and 160 kW out of a 3 litre 6. And I bet it will use less than 10 litre per 100 km.
I appreciate the advantages of hybrid technology, but surely diesel / electric would be a better combination given diesel's inherent advantage in efficiency over petrol (gasoline) ?

[Bill R.]

station so diesel falls even further behind... Also the clean running diesels that they have in europe won't run on our high sulfur diesel until we finally clean up our diesel. Either way hybrids aren't going to be a stopgap they are going to be the way that all cars are in the fairly near future, the amount of energy recaptured with regenerative braking ensures that no matter what we end up with its going to be a hybrid powertrain. Whether its gas or diesel it will be hybrid.
Battery costs are falling all the time and energy density is increasing all the time. There are a number of sites on the net that give you specifics on cost to charge as a plugin typically 1kw will get you a minimum of 3 miles and here its .10 for a kwh, so that translates into 30 miles for a buck but that doesn't take into account that most utilities will give you a discount for off peak usage and averaging your monthly bill , since your hybrid would almost always be charging at night during off peak hours then you could get the discounted rate which would be even cheaper.So even if it was run on straight electric it would be equal about 75 miles to the gallon based on gas costs now.. There's a guy in california who has solar collectors on his roof and they supply enough power for his house and his 2 electric cars, a toyota rav 4 and a gm ev1 that he had to give back.. he gives specs for his daily commute of less than 40 miles on each car every day... So i would imagine that it wouldn't take many rooftop collectors to keep a plug in hybrid charged up. They never charge to 100% typically only 80 %, its designed that way and rarely would you let it discharge completely on the drive home. Toyota has already announced that they will have 10 hybrid models within the next 24 months so they plan on offering a hybrid model of every car currently in the lineup... As far as performance cars the acura prototype that they have tends to indicate that hybrids will be a natural for that as well.. all wheel drive with a electric motor at each wheel individually controlled And what Jeff mentioned about mileage and handling not going hand in hand is true but tire manufacturers are coming up with new designs all the time stressing fuel economy and handling.. The first generation prius required special low resistance tires to achieve the mileage numbers, the second generation doesn't require special tires so I imagine you could put whatever tires you wanted on it as long as you didn't increase the width and not harm mileage much. The same oil guy that predicted 3.00 gas by now( which it is in places on the west coast) also predicted 5.00 gas in about another year. Toyota has also announced that they are going to increase hybrid production to 500,000 units annually or roughly half of all the cars they sell. Tomorrow i get to go drive a lexus hybrid for an hour or so , so I'll see what they are like.






im all for things that can be done NOW without having to engineer things...but i've read two articles and seen one tv spot about the plug in hybrid, all of them say the battery cost in addition is around $10k usd, and all of the bits i saw/read tried to trivialize the power consumption by saying that it only used "as much as a hair dryer" or "as much as a microwave" 1500 watts continuously overnight somewhat subtracts from the 150mpg the inventors tout. do you have any numbers as to the consumption of the plug in bill? me, personally, do not feel as though biodiesel is a good thing in the long run...right now? i hope that as many people as possible convert to it, its a very available stop gap measure that doesn't require extensive engineering, but it will obviously stop being attractive when everybody starts running on the stuff. after driving on the highway friday, and seeing that people were driving FASTER rather than slower on the highway, in spite of current fuel prices, well, i think that one of the smartest things bush could do right now was implement a national 65mph speed limit, before gas hits the magical $3.10 or $3.12 that it was in 1980.

[Bill R.]

version of it also. They both use toyota's hybrid drivetrain though. Ford was way behind on development and purchased the license to use toyota's powertrain system., so it should be pretty reliable.. I've looked at a couple of them here. The accord hybrid is already out too, and its emphazing performance rather than mileage, it gets civic mileage with a 256hp motor and its getting 30city 37 highway, strangely they put wider tires on the accord hybrid than on the standard accord...








ride. As you know, other vehicle manufactures are jumping on the hybrid bandwagon such as Ford Motor Company with its first commercially available Escape Hybrid SUV, for this year. Of course, I wouldn't buy anything from them until I saw some reliability history records. Toyota Motor Corporation will also be promoting hybrid versions of the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX400 SUVs for this year as well. Honda will be venturing on the hybrid version of the Accord for this year too, and the list will go on... I made up my mine a while back to get a hybrid. It's just a matter of time. Here at work, 5 people own the Prius and one guy owns an Insight There are talks among other colleagues who are contemplating purchase... and its on the horizon for many of them. Show us pics when you get the ride. Enjoy it, and tell us your experiences!

[Zeuk in Oz]

Diesel is about 10% dearer than low octane (91) petrol (gasoline) here in Oz, but about the same as 98 octane.
The driveability and economy of these new turbo charged, common rail, direct injections diesels is phenomenal.
The other side of the coin is that servicing is cheaper, basically oil and filters, and that the engines still seem to last much longer than petrol (gasoline) engines.
Us far as the sulphur content is concerned, it was reportedly BMW that blackmailed our federal government into legislating for much lower sulphur content, threatening legal action if they didn't. It worked and so we now have all these wonderful new engines from which to choose ! :)
The best thing about them, IMHO, is that they produce so much torque and many are now auto as the torque curves seen with diesel engines seem to be best mated to an auto box. All I can say is that it works !
My ML270 CDI gives me V8 - like torque out of an economical 5 cylinder.
The BMW 6 cylinder diesel engines have a similar exhaust note to the petrol (gasoline) sixes. :D

[Hector]

The future is definitely bright for hybrids. Even the batteries will be better. Some are concerned about how to recycle the metal-hydride batteries but this may not be an issue once the lithium ion battery supersedes it.


version of it also. They both use toyota's hybrid drivetrain though. Ford was way behind on development and purchased the license to use toyota's powertrain system., so it should be pretty reliable.. I've looked at a couple of them here. The accord hybrid is already out too, and its emphazing performance rather than mileage, it gets civic mileage with a 256hp motor and its getting 30city 37 highway, strangely they put wider tires on the accord hybrid than on the standard accord...

[genphreak]

Heh, can anytone tell me why regenerative braking was not around 50 years ago when we put batteries in cars? We had dynamos on push bikes back then. Why were they making us lug around such big, heavy alternators to charge the battery when it could be done by an armarture around the tailshaft, opertive during braking only (taking wear off the brakes too)?

It could be a modification for ALL passenger cars, not just a hybrid feature. mmm :) GP

[genphreak]

Diesel is filthy stuff, even well refinded euro-diesel. Its just that its cheap cos of Farmer lobbyists.

We could be using ethanol/methanol and get weight gains from high calorific value, added to clean burning for reductions in fossil-related polution and use plants to create it (thus adding oxygen to the air). Of course all these are stop-gaps before we get portable fusion reactors (or something like it), and hybrids are favoured by the car companies. Perhaps they have traded oil company buddies for battery company buddies... is anyone thinking about the acid, lead and other battery-related wastes I wonder? They seem pretty high to me, on top of what pollution is created when you plug it in and suck 1.5kW from your grid all night... :) GP

[winfred]

yea i am going to sell my 535 (if he doesn't back out) in a month or two when he gets his cash together, using the funding to pay off the dodge cummins diesel i am hopefully picking up soon (used truck and minor problems) i just need a truck more then a comfy car. the dude that wants the 535 just totalled his 735 and has a chubby for my car is working part time at our shop. the only thing that stands a chance of getting me outta my e30 would be a M coupe and i don't see those getting cheep enough for a while, with the cummins i am seriously thinking about making biodiesel outta wvo, $.70-1.00 a gallon fuel that has better lubracation is tempting, diesel has been running $2.499 through most of this price jacking, i just tanked up the e30 for $2.539 for 93* down from $2.619 last weeks fill up, i've not driven the e34 in 2-3 weeks due to the fact i didn't want to buy my first $50 tank of gas (it's empty and the prices were up bad 2 weeks ago) that and the e30 gets a solid 5 mpg better while being driven harder, running on the same roads i don't think i could drive the e30 harder without being dangerous and it still gets 23+ id hate to see what it'd get with a soft driver

[Javier]

in lowering gas prices?

Jaier


i think that one of the smartest things bush could do right now was implement a national 65mph speed limit, before gas hits the magical $3.10 or $3.12 that it was in 1980.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Diesel is filthy stuff ......on top of what pollution is created when you plug it in and suck 1.5kW from your grid all night... :) GP
New Diesel is only filthy at the bowser - smoke-belching engines are becoming a thing of the past - if only the Japanese could catch up !
In Oz most electricity is from coal fired power plants, with a little hydro-electricity, especially in Tasmania. We have NO nuclear power plants at all in Oz ! :(
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't fossil fuels plants once ? :D

[uscharalph]

New Diesel is only filthy at the bowser - smoke-belching engines are becoming a thing of the past - if only the Japanese could catch up !
In Oz most electricity is from coal fired power plants, with a little hydro-electricity, especially in Tasmania. We have NO nuclear power plants at all in Oz ! :(
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't fossil fuels plants once ? :D
I thought fossil fuels were dinosaurs.

[Jon K]

I thought fossil fuels were dinosaurs.


Fossil fuels are anythign and everything that was organic that was petrified.... now we burn the **** out of it extracting energy. Fossil fuels are poop too. We pay $3.00/gallon in newtown for a gallon of some old animals poop...

[Bill R.]

regenerative braking charging isn't constant, for example if your driving on the freeway for long periods there could be a long time where your not using any brakes and with the headlights on and ac on you would deplete the battery fairly quickly. Plus 50 years ago they didn't have the electronic and computer control devices that allow this system to work so well or the battery energy storage capabilities in such a light weight form.





Heh, can anytone tell me why regenerative braking was not around 50 years ago when we put batteries in cars? We had dynamos on push bikes back then. Why were they making us lug around such big, heavy alternators to charge the battery when it could be done by an armarture around the tailshaft, opertive during braking only (taking wear off the brakes too)?

It could be a modification for ALL passenger cars, not just a hybrid feature. mmm :) GP

[bahnstormer]

idiot. I talk to 3 prius owners here that all own the 2nd generation prius and they all have lifetime fuel usage averages over 50 mpg, thats city and highway. Most prius owners that check mileage versus the computed gas mileage say that the computer is about 1.5 to 2 mpg on the conservative side. As far as comparing it to a golf tdi, i work on vw's and wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy, they've gone from one of the best cars in my opinion back in the 60's and 70's to one of the worst now. The tdi is better than most vw's but still far to troublesome for me. Toyota's reputation with the prius is unmatched. Even if you keep one for a year only and take the tax credit the odds are good you can get what you paid for it based on current resale values for them. The electric hermetic compressor powered ac makes it worth the price of admission to me alone. The atkinson cycle engine that they use still has a lot more potential for future gains also. Not to mention the number of people now who are making their priuses into plug in hybrids really increasing mileage into the 150 to 250 mpg areas for city commuters.
Plus its a new technology thats coming to everybody and i thought i had better start learning now. The last thing i am concerned with is what happens after the warranty runs out. I think i'll be able to handle it. And the battery and associated hybrid components are warranteed by toyota for 8 years or 100k anyway.

quite right bill, u've talked to 3 owners, i've driven both the prius and the diesel golf...

i suppose if u want to jump on the bandwagon by all means go for it, but
electric cars arent the future imho (different topic tho)

anyhow i'm very much against the prius b/c its a car made for ppl who dont care about cars...they put it in drive, and go to work...

its not something that is enjoyable to drive, at least i didnt really enjoy
the dynamics of the car at all...

whereas the golf , with the torquey diesel was quite enjoyable (minus the terminal understeer hehehe)

any how, u're an idiot for buying one, i'm an idiot for bashing them, so we're all idiots...hope she serves ya well tho!

[Bill R.]

the turbo diesel. The primary reason that the prius doesn't have the feel that your talking about is simple, there is no toe in, its set to zero since thats where the least rolling resistance is. People that set a small amount of toe notice a big difference in feel. However you lose some mileage when you do that. My primary use for the prius is strictly going to be a people mover anyway and guess what 90% of the people out there just want a car that they put in drive and go to work thats carries what they need in comfort and is cheap to own and operate.





quite right bill, u've talked to 3 owners, i've driven both the prius and the diesel golf...

i suppose if u want to jump on the bandwagon by all means go for it, but
electric cars arent the future imho (different topic tho)

anyhow i'm very much against the prius b/c its a car made for ppl who dont care about cars...they put it in drive, and go to work...

its not something that is enjoyable to drive, at least i didnt really enjoy
the dynamics of the car at all...

whereas the golf , with the torquey diesel was quite enjoyable (minus the terminal understeer hehehe)

any how, u're an idiot for buying one, i'm an idiot for bashing them, so we're all idiots...hope she serves ya well tho!

[callen]

Have co-worker that loves his.......I'm thinking you may want to do some Republican accounting and write the whole car off as business expense as you will use knowledge in business....hell all the bubba's in Texas write off their H2's (-:

when you do get it keep us informed....you will miss your 535.
Callen

[callen]

I don't know about the 65 MPH thing..but taxing the **** out of a person that buys a new Expedition, Excursion or similiar vehicle would be reaaaallllly nice. Course our politians (both sides of the isle) need the infusion of cash next go around so that will never happen.....

[Paul in NZ]

the honda civic hybrid gets a more balanced review but of course is a whole lot smaller than the prius........these sorts of decisions are in ALL our futures,gas hit an all time high here the other day.I am starting to think about a lpg or cng conversion

[Robin-535im]

My crystal ball says that turbo deisel hybrids will be really common in a few years...

The "free" efficiency of a turbo, the low emissions (aside from particulates) of diesel, the efficiency of an electric motor for certain operating points...

Mark my words... the car of the future will have a very clean 1 litre turbo diesel that runs at a peak efficiency RPM driving a motor/generator through a CVT to the wheels...

And also mark these words... I'll still have a gas-guzzling BMW in the garage even when gas is $10 a gallon!

[Bill R.]

many others are as well. As far as the last words at 10 bucks a gallon it'll be in the garage all right for you to gaze at and admire but not to drive :) very often anyway...







My crystal ball says that turbo deisel hybrids will be really common in a few years...

The "free" efficiency of a turbo, the low emissions (aside from particulates) of diesel, the efficiency of an electric motor for certain operating points...

Mark my words... the car of the future will have a very clean 1 litre turbo diesel that runs at a peak efficiency RPM driving a motor/generator through a CVT to the wheels...

And also mark these words... I'll still have a gas-guzzling BMW in the garage even when gas is $10 a gallon!

[bullyd]

:( i read this thread in disbelief hearing all of you going on about how expensive 'gas' is, all the moning and groaning of fuel going over $3 a gallon i just tried to work it out as exact as i could and we in the uk are paying 95.9p per litre at most pumps and to my working thats $6.54 a gallon, :( just bear a thought for us brits :p

[Bill R.]

.18 cents a gallon during gas wars..... funny they called them gas wars back then when competing gas stations were fighting for customers.. now we have real gas wars...







:( i read this thread in disbelief hearing all of you going on about how expensive 'gas' is, all the moning and groaning of fuel going over $3 a gallon i just tried to work it out as exact as i could and we in the uk are paying 95.9p per litre at most pumps and to my working thats $6.54 a gallon, :( just bear a thought for us brits :p

[bullyd]

.18 cents a gallon during gas wars..... funny they called them gas wars back then when competing gas stations were fighting for customers.. now we have real gas wars...

.18 a gallon **** id buy a 750 lump and fit it in my e34 just with the money id save in fuel in 1 year :D what a lovely thought a 550i :D

[winfred]

i doubt that the pubic at large would stand for gas prices like europe, if they pushed it high enough i think a potentially nasty revolt would start


thats $6.54 a gallon, :( just bear a thought for us brits :p

[Zeuk in Oz]

if your driving on the freeway for long periods there could be a long time where your not using any brakes and with the headlights on and ac on you would deplete the battery fairly quickly

I suppose what we need for that is pop-out propellers in the slipstream to generate turbine - driven electricity.
The after-market industry would go mad .
Perhaps thats what spinners are ??? :D

[tdgard]

:( i read this thread in disbelief hearing all of you going on about how expensive 'gas' is, all the moning and groaning of fuel going over $3 a gallon i just tried to work it out as exact as i could and we in the uk are paying 95.9p per litre at most pumps and to my working thats $6.54 a gallon, :( just bear a thought for us brits :pI don't feel sorry for the brits--or anyone else, for that matter, over the cost of gas.



OPEC regulates the cost of GAS worldwide--that is a constant. What happens in countries other than the US is they incorporate social taxes into the cost.



Our price pays for gas and roads (just the federal part-not the state part)--nothing else. We then pay around 30% straight out of our paychecks for the operation of the federal government. Add to that most states then also take taxes out for their operation. After that you can expect to pay additional taxes when buying goods and services.



When all of that is done, you then have to pay for your health insurance--mine is around $500 a month for the family.



So when people whine and bitch about the Americans whining and bitching--please remember that you elected (or are stuck with some backwards government that does not elect their officials) these people who have decided that anyone purchasing gas needs to pay for a good portion of the operation of their government and health of their citizens.



I don't think that's a bad thing--I wish our country would go to something similar--I just get pissed off when people think we are asses because we complain about the price of gas.




We complain about the price of gas because we are also then paying for everything your gas taxes are paying for.

Essentially we are complaining about the price of GAS.

[bullyd]

I don't feel sorry for the brits--or anyone else, for that matter, over the cost of gas.



OPEC regulates the cost of GAS worldwide--that is a constant. What happens in countries other than the US is they incorporate social taxes into the cost.



Our price pays for gas and roads (just the federal part-not the state part)--nothing else. We then pay around 30% straight out of our paychecks for the operation of the federal government. Add to that most states then also take taxes out for their operation. After that you can expect to pay additional taxes when buying goods and services.



When all of that is done, you then have to pay for your health insurance--mine is around $500 a month for the family.



So when people whine and bitch about the Americans whining and bitching--please remember that you elected (or are stuck with some backwards government that does not elect their officials) these people who have decided that anyone purchasing gas needs to pay for a good portion of the operation of their government and health of their citizens.



I don't think that's a bad thing--I wish our country would go to something similar--I just get pissed off when people think we are asses because we complain about the price of gas.




We complain about the price of gas because we are also then paying for everything your gas taxes are paying for.

Essentially we are complaining about the price of GAS.

i didnt realise you know so much about where our taxes are spent? more than me obviously, i pay my income tax on what i earn and VAT on what I buy!and as for health service we over here pay something called national insurance and council tax which takes care of that, so yeah i do feel i have room to think its **** we have to pay twice the price for fuel!!

[tdgard]

I don't know about the 65 MPH thing..but taxing the **** out of a person that buys a new Expedition, Excursion or similiar vehicle would be reaaaallllly nice. Course our politians (both sides of the isle) need the infusion of cash next go around so that will never happen.....
And what do you propose the government does with these additional taxes?

If your answer is to fund research into more enviroment friendly fuels or vehicles, please remember that we do not drive the most fuel sipping vehicles out there. What do you create then? Some sort of sliding tax scale?

Let's make one segment of our population pay more than anyone else because you don't like their choice of vehicle. Give me a break. Hope the next time you build a house your contractor has to get all the wood in a Toyota Prius. Let's see what the savings are when he gets it one stick at a time.

BTW I am not a contractor, don't own anything like an SUV, and spend once a week driving everything that can be recycled to the recycle center because they don't pick it up at my house. I am a person that thinks we are already overtaxed and am tired of paying other peoples way with my money.

[tdgard]

i didnt realise you know so much about where our taxes are spent? more than me obviously, i pay my income tax on what i earn and VAT on what I buy!and as for health service we over here pay something called national insurance and council tax which takes care of that, so yeah i do feel i have room to think its **** we have to pay twice the price for fuel!!
I never proclamed to be an expert on your taxes. I just have grown weary of other people saying the Americans are wrong in their views on gas prices. As far as your prices go, I did not elect those responsible.

[bullyd]

I never proclamed to be an expert on your taxes. I just have grown weary of other people saying the Americans are wrong in their views on gas prices. As far as your prices go, I did not elect those responsible.

i did not say that americans were wrong in there views i was mearly said to think about us paying double, i believe we all pay too much

[tdgard]

i did not say that americans were wrong in there views i was mearly said to think about us paying double, i believe we all pay too much
That may be. I am not trying to pick a fight--far from it. I just want it to be known that the initial reasoning behind this post was the price of GAS.

[Dan in NZ]

i doubt that the pubic at large would stand for gas prices like europe, if they pushed it high enough i think a potentially nasty revolt would start

Or everyone would scrap their Expeditions, Suburbans and Navigators, and start buying 518i's. Consumption would drop, there would be less demand for gas, and the price would drop again.

We're just about to have an election here, and neither major party is even mentioning gas prices. We were at $1.13/liter at the start of the year, and $1.49/liter now. At the start of the year the government added 5c/liter tax to upgrade our notoriously shitty roads, and there's a growing revolt at the moment to take that tax back off. Sales of compact cars and scooters is reported to be up 20%!

Our gas price is about 50% wholesale cost, 12.5% sales tax, road tax, accident compensation levy (no right to sue here), small fire service levy....

[infinity5]

I'd rather live withing walking distance of most everyhting i needed and have no reason to own a car. Once i finish school my goal is to move to a city with the size and public transportation system to facilitate that.

[Zeuk in Oz]

just bear a thought for us brits :p

In Oz the government introduced what is called "import parity pricing" some time ago.
What that means is that even though a fairly large proportion of our fuel comes from our own resources, the price we pay is mandated according, I believe, to a complex formula that includes the price of something called Singapore light crude (I think - or something like that).
What it means is that we pay for fuel as if it were all imported, even though only a portion of it is.
The theory being that higher prices help reduce consumption.
This also, surprise, surprise, means more money for the federal government. This windfall was initially supposed to go to fund exploration looking for new deposits, but I suspect the government just keeps the money now.
The states then add their tax and there is also a GST (VAT or consumption tax).
Presently we are paying between $1.20 - 1.34 per litre for petrol (gas), depending on octane, and $1.29 per litre for diesel.
This equates to .90c - 1.00 US per litre for petrol
or .50 - .56 pound sterling per litre for petrol
This equates to US$3.40 - 3.78 per US gallon for petrol
or PS 2.27- 2.40 pounds sterling per imperial gallon for petrol.

We have the same problems as you yanks though, we travel large distances all the time. My cars (3) travel about 75,000 km per year (combined).