A present for everybody! (no, it's not porn or viagra)

[Kalevera]

Guys...

That's right, I'm giving each and every one of you a gift, the gift of taking even better care of your e34 than you probably already do. And you don't even have to send $5 and your address to a PO box somewhere!

This booklet sits on our service counter at work. Everyone who thinks that changing your oil every time the light comes on is tantamount to an attentive service regimen would do well to look at it.


http://www.bimmer.info/~lowell/BMWCBS.pdf

From what I recall, there are a few additional pictures in the hard copy; evidently I PDFed an early version of it. Most, if not all, pictures came from that secret society of BMW service professionals that I probably can't mention without being killed :)

Your friend, Whit

[Alexlind123]

So whats the point of this booklet? I saw a bunch of ugly oily engine parts. And it was trying to tell the reader that something was wrong with the factory approved maintainece schedules and/or techniques. It didnt say anyhing about what should be changed.

[uscharalph]

Guys...

That's right, I'm giving each and every one of you a gift, the gift of taking even better care of your e34 than you probably already do. And you don't even have to send $5 and your address to a PO box somewhere!

This booklet sits on our service counter at work. Everyone who thinks that changing your oil every time the light comes on is tantamount to an attentive service regimen would do well to look at it.


http://www.bimmer.info/~lowell/BMWCBS.pdf

From what I recall, there are a few additional pictures in the hard copy; evidently I PDFed an early version of it. Most, if not all, pictures came from that secret society of BMW service professionals that I probably can't mention without being killed :)

Your friend, Whit
I'd rather have porn and viagra! ROTFLMAO!

[Lennyz525i]

Damn, pretty interesting. Didn't know oil pan sludge could get that thick...

[Kalevera]

So whats the point of this booklet? I saw a bunch of ugly oily engine parts. And it was trying to tell the reader that something was wrong with the factory approved maintainece schedules and/or techniques. It didnt say anyhing about what should be changed.
Very good observation, my dear Alex. The point is that BMW is in the business of selling cars, not making them last forever. Hence their recommended service procedures usually aren't up to par. If the last of the classics, if you will (those being late E36, E39, E38, and E46), had manufacturer mandated service intervals that produced these kinds of catastrophes, be afraid for the future and reconsider what you're doing to maintain your current vehicle at present.

This particular philosophical shift means I will hesitate to buy any of the models currently on the showroom floor. Timed obsolescence on the electronics, service intervals that are worse than those that produced the pictures, no oil dipstick on the E90 (not to mention that the 6 banger E90s take 8+ quarts of oil and BMW "complimentary" maintenance only provides 7 and some change, meaning the thing is low enough on the stuff to pop an idiot light) EDIT - oops, that last bit applies to the E6# N62, not E90. E90 with the N52B30 has a 6.5q capacity. And these are technological "advancements" over what we currently drive. No thanks.

My final point is this: I see E34s with engines that resemble some of those pictures. Their "people" usually aren't enthusiasts. But a lot of people, through habit or ignorance, overrun their oil and other fluids. That's a very bad idea if you're planning on keeping a classic around for a few years.


best, whit

[632 Regal]

I can guarantee that that wasnt synthetic oil there!

Whit, do you think, even with the suggested intevals that this "could" have been prevented with synthetic?

[Kalevera]

Jeff, a dealership would've put BMW High Performance Synthetic in both of those motors.

best, whit

[winfred]

seen running motors where the oil has turned completely to sludge, as in take out the drain plug on a hot motor and it barley comes out, i beleave that comes up around 15-20k miles on the oil change with dino juice


Damn, pretty interesting. Didn't know oil pan sludge could get that thick...

[Alexlind123]

Scary...

[SharkmanBMW]

Jeff, a dealership would've put BMW High Performance Synthetic in both of those motors.

best, whit


so then what caused it???
I am looking at a 2001 or 02 330xi, should I be afraid?

[Qube]

Is there no way to flush this crud out at a regular interval?

[winfred]

yes their certainly is, change the oil three times for every one of theres


Is there no way to flush this crud out at a regular interval?

[tim s]

tim s.

[SRR2]

Welp, now that's a real good point. Are you sure about that? I kinda doubt it since none of us were there when they changed the oil. Now what do you suppose would happen if some dealer whose profit picture is looking a little green around the gills would decide to save $30 or $40 or so on parts while doing the 'free' service. Like by not changing the oil at all and just resetting the SI, or to be charitable, by putting in 6 quarts of whatever's selling for $0.79 at Pep Boys that week? Betcha you'd have a pan fulla sludge by the time 60K rolls around on the clock.

[Dan in NZ]

What about those of us in the 200,000+ club, that have only had recommended service intervals for the last 100k, and an unknown history before that? Keeps of running...

Surely these engines have just been neglected? That one that died at 63k must have never been changed!

Doesn't it make you want to drop your pan and check if there's sludge...

[emw525E34]

Whit,

I completely agree with your viewpoints and is very disappointed that new cars are going the route of trying to be "idiot-proof" to the point of customer dependency on the dealer. That cannot be good.

"And these are technological "advancements" over what we currently drive. No thanks."

I got a mind to source and maintain non-fully electronic dependent engines for the next 20 years just to enjoy the "lower tech" BMWs and thier driving dynamics. Its does not really cost more in the long run and does need some skills, but thats exactly the point some enthusiasts wanted.

Just to prove the point in F1 races who have seen. Contrast Schumi who can read his car's condition and able to "nurse" it to the finish line, to Montoya who has zero respect for his machinery and drives the car to destruction.

[632 Regal]

that is NOT synthetic oil in them pans! Syn doesnt do that.

[Kalevera]

Jeff, I assure you -- it does. I asked about the pictures today and confirmed that they were ~ 8,000 mile (or whatever the service counter is...it's 6 or 8k) oil changes, by the light.

Dealers use the BMW HPS for practically everything produced after 1990. We use it to comply with BMW warranty.

Oh, and SRR's idea....a compelling theory, but not necessarily sound -- the tech who bills an oil change and only resets the service counter gets fired pretty quickly. That's not to say that it couldn't or doesn't happen on occasion. But, for all of the skimping they do, they'd have to want to get fired by not dumping fresh oil in there. Too many customers are smart enough to check the dipstick (he he) and would notice that the stuff is still black.

best, whit

[dacoyote]

Whit,

Those are some nice pic's.. I have worked on a couple beater cars that look like that.. and one minivan with 63k miles.... "we need to change / check the oil?" Amazing enough it still runs... 60k miles later...

-Charles

[zuzuk212]

What happened to the sludge pics?! I've been searching and searching to show my Dad and Uncle. Were they moved somewhere else? I can't get to them via the posted link anymore.

Thanks,
Ken

[winfred]

heres a few, this is a 94 740il it was rapping like oil starvation so i started adding oil (wasn't touching the stick) i started adding cheepo oil as i was planning a moble 1 oil change and wasn't going to waste that, wound up putting 5 quarts in to get it on the stick i then ran it for 30-60 minutes while tweaking other stuff on the car, lunch time came and i popped the cork to let it dump over lunch.........drip.......drip.....drip....drip..dr ip.dripdripdrip stream........... oh boy and this was warm, after the turd oozed out the 5 quarts i put in came out slowly so i pulled the pan to shovel it out because i knew what was inside, it was kinda cool as this **** was like jello and stood firm a half inch above the top of the pan as you can see in the first pic
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge3.jpg
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge4.jpg
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge5.jpg
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge6.jpg

What happened to the sludge pics?! I've been searching and searching to show my Dad and Uncle. Were they moved somewhere else? I can't get to them via the posted link anymore.

Thanks,
Ken

[winfred]

desert is served
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/wdixon27/sludge2.jpg
yes it is supporting the spoon on it's own, i wanted to take a pic with me holding the pan upside down with the cake intact sorta like when you get a dairy queen blizzard they flip the cup before they give it to you but the new guy kyle's (aka ass monkey) camera crapped out

[Dave M]

Wow, that makes me appreciate my high mile M50. After taking the oil pan off, there was barely a speck of dirt clinging to the inside, not even the slightest smudge. Fed the thing nothin but dino since I've owned it.

Interesting,

Dave M

[Kalevera]

Ah, I dumped all of the stuff off of my web space a while ago...Winfred's got ya covered, but I can post the collection if need be.

best, whit

[Kalevera]

Winfred, you guys add a new tech or did that other guy who worked there leave?

[winfred]

me and chuck are still the main techs with ass monkey as a back up and to pull parts from the yard and a couple times a week we have another guy come in and do some mop up mechanic work, after the storm we have been up to our eyes with work and needed some extra hands


Winfred, you guys add a new tech or did that other guy who worked there leave?

[632 Regal]

I have never seen sludge from synthetic in y life unless contaminated by something else.

[Jr ///M5]

When these cars become 5-8 years old (if they last that long) we could have normally pick up a good one for a song.

Now that the newer models haven't had proper care, they won't last like ours did, so the market will be filled with these sludge filled bimmers.

By the looks of it, tearing the engine down to de-sludge it is the only solution. What a pain in the ass. Can you imagine instead of worrying if the block was Nikasil, you're concern is if it has been "de-sludged". Instead of doing a leak down test, the pre-purchase inspection will require a "pan pull" to inspect the sludge build up.

So what do you end up doing? Run kerosene through it? Seems like some of the bearings would be burned up by now.

[winfred]

i didn't really do anything except muck it out and hit it with moble one, i did pry the cover off the screen of the oil pump and clean the charcoal looking **** off of it, i figured the damage is done and i am not going to put more stress on everything by trying to flush, i think you cause more damage when you break all of that crap loose down stream of the oil filter and passing it through the bearings


So what do you end up doing? Run kerosene through it? Seems like some of the bearings would be burned up by now.

[Bill R.]

pan and the valve cover, from there i could pretty much see 90% of the gunk
I just used a lot of shop towels and brake spray cleaner to muck out as much as i could, which was a large portion of it. Then put it back together and ran some high detergent conventional oil through it for about an hour of running time and then changed it again. They had the mobil high detergent oil on sale for something like 97 cents so i used that to flush and then used the castrol conventional oil that i put in most customers who aren't running synthetic. But unlike Winfred or Whitt, most of the ones that i have seen have had an underlying cause, a couple of the honda's owners admitted that they ran extremely long times without changing, one that i posted a couple of years ago pics ran for over 50k miles without an oil change. Others that i've seen have had something wrong with the pcv crankcase ventilation system, and others had unknown additives in their oil under the impression that they were helping. I dont' see too many of the bmw ones that go the full 12k to 15k miles that the si shows. Most of the ones i see are people who have already been to enough lube pits that 3 to 3.5 k miles is ingrained in their thinking. I have one customer with a dodge v8 late 90's truck that sludges up about every 6 months no matter what he does, I've had to pull the pan times now to clean it out when the oil pickup gets plugged up. Some kind of cooling system flaw causing a hot spot or something else that i haven't found yet.




i didn't really do anything except muck it out and hit it with moble one, i did pry the cover off the screen of the oil pump and clean the charcoal looking **** off of it, i figured the damage is done and i am not going to put more stress on everything by trying to flush, i think you cause more damage when you break all of that crap loose down stream of the oil filter and passing it through the bearings

[winfred]

speaking of cooling system hot spots whats your take on evans ? (http://www.evanscooling.com/index2.html) sounds cool and besides the price i am not seeing many drawbacks, i like the low viscocity race formula, i may wait for another evolution or two before i try it as each new formula is thinner and better sounding, that and it may get cheeper


Some kind of cooling system flaw causing a hot spot

[SRR2]

Oh, and SRR's idea....a compelling theory, but not necessarily sound -- the tech who bills an oil change and only resets the service counter gets fired pretty quickly.

True story: I used to work for an Olds dealer when I was in college many moons ago. The management of this dealership was as corrupt as they come, using every underhanded tactic in the book and many that weren't. One of their tactics was exactly what I described. The mechanic never saw the service order or the customer. He was told what to do by the service manager. I can assure you that these characters RARELY did an oil change, as my bay* was next to the oil change lift. I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of changes they did in a day, and some days went by without any. For repeat customers (the fools) the service manager kept track of how many changes they skipped so they'd eventually do one so that the car didn't stop running unexpectedly.

I personally ran into this at a Ford dealer in the mid 70s. The car was a Mustang II and the dealer where I bought it had "free" oil changes for the life of the warranty. That was great, except that when you took it in, they did a wall job on it. The first time it happened (I'm a suspicious bastard, having worked in the aforementioned Olds dealer) I looked at the contents of the dipstick a few hundred miles after the ostensible oil change. Thought to myself "that's mighty dark for 350 miles", and didn't think any more of it. The next time I went in, I marked the oil filter and cap in the valve cover. When I reclaimed the car at the end of the day, the first thing I did was open the hood and check. Same filter, cap unopened. Went to get the service manager and had a Come To Jesus meeting around the open hood. He turned kinda red and immediately took the car in and put it on the rack. Then, in a moment of ironic hilarity, he handed me a couple of coupons for a "free" oil change when the car was out of warranty. Yeah. Right.

So, Whit, believe me, this happens.

* I was the new/used car prep guy. These creeps were so bad that they refused to buy a vacuum cleaner for me to clean out the used cars. I **** thee not. Know what I had to do? Clean the carpets with an air gun. Needless to say, that was that a filthy operation.

[Bill R.]

now. I don't know if its as good as claimed but its sure interesting.



speaking of cooling system hot spots whats your take on evans ? (http://www.evanscooling.com/index2.html) sounds cool and besides the price i am not seeing many drawbacks, i like the low viscocity race formula, i may wait for another evolution or two before i try it as each new formula is thinner and better sounding, that and it may get cheeper