I need e34 v8 owner's option!!!!

[chefdanny121]

I am in the market for another e34 and I am not having much luck finding a 525i that is in better shape than my car.Which has alittle rust developing on the lower parts of the doors and a slight gliche with the trany the car is perfect! My question is are the v8 e34 reliable as the m50v6 in the e34's. My mechanic in Boston has told me to stay away from the v8's for they are a money pit on wheels. He claims that BMW has never made a great v8 in his eyes,that the v6's are the way to go!!! " they are bulletproof" But in my search for a new e34 their are alot of 540's out their in great shape,manual trany,and w/ low miles on them too!! :D I just need some options on this matter and would appreciate any I can get on my car dilemma :(
Thanks in advance for all your trusted opinions!!!!!!!!
Daniel

[zygoteer]

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the M50 & M52 straight sixes, not V6 ?

[stx133]

V6, i think not. The v8 is a beautiful thing, the power and grunt are wonderful the the sound is superb. Look at all the mods you would have to do to a 6 to get what is stock on the 540. engine power, brakes, transmission, suspension, brake ducts. i am supremely happy with my 540 and have not had any experience in the 'money pit'

[Kalevera]

I am in the market for another e34 and I am not having much luck finding a 525i that is in better shape than my car.Which has alittle rust developing on the lower parts of the doors and a slight gliche with the trany the car is perfect! My question is are the v8 e34 reliable as the m50v6 in the e34's. My mechanic in Boston has told me to stay away from the v8's for they are a money pit on wheels. He claims that BMW has never made a great v8 in his eyes,that the v6's are the way to go!!! " they are bulletproof" But in my search for a new e34 their are alot of 540's out their in great shape,manual trany,and w/ low miles on them too!! :D I just need some options on this matter and would appreciate any I can get on my car dilemma :(
Thanks in advance for all your trusted opinions!!!!!!!!
Daniel
If your mechanic told you that the car has a V6, you probably want to stay away from him, as well.



best, whit

[Mike-AZ]

I have owned my '94 540i for over two years now and have had very little problems with it. The only things I had to do early on, was have the valve body in the auto tranny replaced and the valve cover gaskets replaced. It sounds like you are looking for a stick shift, so you would not have to worry about the valve body issue. I bought it with 89,000 miles on it, and it now has over 131,000 miles and still runs strong and is quiet. Really the only thing I can think of that makes the V-8s more expensive to fix is because it's quite cramped in that engine compartment and you have a couple more spark plugs to replace. If I had to do it all over again though, I would have bought a '95 instead of a '94 because the '95s have side turn indicator lights, the upgraded alarm system with integrated key/remote, newer style steering wheel with actual roundel, leather door inserts, and I believe the vinyl covering on the doors don't have the shrinking problem that earlier model years do. -- Michael

[SRR2]

Now there's an understated reply!

[fab525freddy]

I'd like to know myself... I'm also selling my 525i in the hopes of a solid 540i or even a 535i (must be manual)... so hearing from a current e34 V8 owner would be a big help

[Jay 535i]

My father owned an E32 740il. for a couple of years with no problems. Stupendous engine.

I'd swap my 535 for a 540 in a heartbeat if I had the cash lying around. Maybe next year...

[chefdanny121]

sorry for the typo about the v6!!!!!!!!!!

[632 Regal]

540s have got to be cool, I have a 530 and havent had any problems at all engine related. Think about it this way, BMW made it, they wouldnt have released some guinea pig V8 contraption in a 50K car.

The only thing that IS questionable with these is the Nikasil problem if they go bad but I havent had any problems in that aspect either. Some swear by them (me included) some swear at them.

Do your research and make sure you find a well maintained car, have it inspected and remember the $10k rule still applies.

[infinity5]

My 530 has had so few problems compared to what i hear the rest of everyone talking about i feel blessed.

I think the whole car is better in general because by the time they were putting v8's into the e34 they had been making (and fixing) the chassis for years.

In fact, maybe it's only becuase fewer people here have v8's, but it seems like the number of problems in them is extremely disproportionalty low compared to the I6's.

I imagine the m50 and m60 are on par with each other in those respects, but i don't think i'd want an older engine in this car if i had the option of those two.

[Jay 535i]

What's the story with the 3-litre V8? It seems an odd engine for BMW to make at that time. What was the rationale?

[infinity5]

No idea..... It should be in a 3 series, not a 5.

If i had oodles of money i'd put it in an e36/ 318ti :D

now that would be cool.
anyone have a hollowed-out ti?

[Jay 535i]

No idea..... It should be in a 3 series, not a 5.

If i had oodles of money i'd put it in an e36/ 318ti :D

now that would be cool.
anyone have a hollowed-out ti?

It's not so much that it's in the 5 that I find strange, but that it's a 3-litre V8. That makes for very small cylinders, which would have been a departure for BMW. Why make it an eight when straight-sixes are their strength? Why develop a 3-litre engine when they already had a 2.5 and a 4.0? Then why did the engine suddenly disappear from the lineup?

Inquiring minds want to know. :)

P.S. Ewwww, ti. :(

[infinity5]

yep, you're right.

if you had two engines, a 6 and an 8 cyl. , and they had identical displacement, fuel delivery, etc etc, would you be able to tell which one you were driving?

have you compared the power cuves? i'm not really sure what more cylinders do for an engine....

[Bill R.]

inline six , especially the m30... First off the reasonably priced 4.0 v8's are all going to be nikasil blocks which will be a problem eventually especially with the finer quality gasoline we've been getting lately.. The alusil block v8's are going to go for more money because the owners are usually aware of what they have... Next the v8 has 2 cats instead of one and they do fail, and 2 oxygen sensors instead of one and they do need replacement, 2 valve cover gaskets instead of one. Special intake manifold gaskets that do leak , pcv plates that leak and need to be replaced. Oil pump bolt problems, HVA elements that can fail.. the mass air flow sensor that the v8 uses if quite a bit pricier. Power steering leaks and motor mount changes both cost more because of the difficulty of getting to them on the v8. Valley cover leaks. 8 coils instead of 1 like the m20/30... 4 knock sensors that do fail and are difficult to get to to change. Alternator and starter both cost more for the v8.... If you get the manual the 6 speeds do fail and are quite spendy when that happens. So while its not a money pit , its still not nearly as economical to own as the m2/m30/m50, virtually every part on the m60 v8 costs a good bit more than the corresponding m30 part with the exception of the spark plugs, air filter and oil filter,, and the m60 spark plugs do cost more than the m30 spark plugs.







I am in the market for another e34 and I am not having much luck finding a 525i that is in better shape than my car.Which has alittle rust developing on the lower parts of the doors and a slight gliche with the trany the car is perfect! My question is are the v8 e34 reliable as the m50v6 in the e34's. My mechanic in Boston has told me to stay away from the v8's for they are a money pit on wheels. He claims that BMW has never made a great v8 in his eyes,that the v6's are the way to go!!! " they are bulletproof" But in my search for a new e34 their are alot of 540's out their in great shape,manual trany,and w/ low miles on them too!! :D I just need some options on this matter and would appreciate any I can get on my car dilemma :(
Thanks in advance for all your trusted opinions!!!!!!!!
Daniel

[Jay 535i]

yep, you're right.

if you had two engines, a 6 and an 8 cyl. , and they had identical displacement, fuel delivery, etc etc, would you be able to tell which one you were driving?

Yes, you could tell the difference if you drove them back to back. Obviously they would sound different, but more importantly the six would be lighter and mounted closer to the car's center, improving the handling and acceleration.


have you compared the power cuves? i'm not really sure what more cylinders do for an engine....

I haven't compared power curves. I'd like to, though.

More cylinders could be part of a strategy towards high RPMs (think Ferrari's V8), or a V-configuration could be part of a strategy to implement the engine in a number of different cars (think Mercedes' 4.3 litre V8). Neither seems to be the case here, though, which deepens the mystery.

BMW has always favoured straight sixes over vee sixes, which is part of their philosophy of favouring driving dynamics over packaging convenience. That's why an eight that could have been a six seems out of character to me. I'd really like to know how it came about.

[Bill R.]

weight difference isn't that much and the v8 shares common throws so the block is shorter than a inline six moving the weight back to the center on the v8 not the six, also since its a v the center of gravity for the motor is lower..Weight distribution doesn't feel that different between the 2





Yes, you could tell the difference if you drove them back to back. Obviously they would sound different, but more importantly the six would be lighter and mounted closer to the car's center, improving the handling and acceleration.



I haven't compared power curves. I'd like to, though.

More cylinders could be part of a strategy towards high RPMs (think Ferrari's V8), or a V-configuration could be part of a strategy to implement the engine in a number of different cars (think Mercedes' 4.3 litre V8). Neither seems to be the case here, though, which deepens the mystery.

[Jay 535i]

weight difference isn't that much and the v8 shares common throws so the block is shorter than a inline six moving the weight back to the center on the v8 not the six, also since its a v the center of gravity for the motor is lower..Weight distribution doesn't feel that different between the 2

Bill, my post was in response to Infinity's question of telling the difference between a straight six and a V8 all things being equal.

Generally, a straight engine can be mounted farther aft in the chassis than a vee engine, which is why the straight six would benefit handling more than the V8 even though the eight is shorter.

It's not just about weight distribution. It's also about the polar moment. The closer you move mass towards the car's center, the more responsive the car will be to direction changes. BMW recognizes this, which is why the don't make a V6 even though doing so would increase cabin space and decrease production costs.

[mattyb]

ive had mine for 2 years and it has 230,000ks on it. No probs apart from the normal stuff, mount etc which were no hassle to do myself. They are bloody brilliant and any time i see an e34 with a smaller engine in it on the road i feel sorry for them. The only one thing which could be a bother is if your not prepared for the fuel bill if youre a leadfoot. when heavy on the pedal they suck hard. bit i wouldnt swap it for anything. i say go for it!

[Chris'91'525i]

What's the story with the 3-litre V8? It seems an odd engine for BMW to make at that time. What was the rationale?

Maybe the 3 Liter was the basis for a Formula 1 racing engine, since 3L is the Max. displacement allowed.
I have no facts, but it sounds like a reasonable explanation :)

Chris

[Jay 535i]

Maybe the 3 Liter was the basis for a Formula 1 racing engine, since 3L is the Max. displacement allowed.
I have no facts, but it sounds like a reasonable explanation :)

Chris

F1 was almost entirely V-10 engines at the time, and BMW wasn't in F1.

[infinity5]

oh, i just thought of something....


ever have a hard time bleeding your v8? *snicker* ;)

[Jay 535i]

Oh, okay, a bit of research turned up the answer.

The 3.0 V8 is just a smaller version of the 4.0 V8, so development costs would have been very low.

While the small eight disappeared from North America, it lived on elsewhere as a 3.5 for a while.

It was an inexpensive stopgap until the newer, smaller straight six grew up to take its place. Today that's BMW's 3-litre six -- 3.2 in the M3.

[Kalevera]

Bill's said it. Now I will:

I'll take a E34 535 over a V8 any day.

Why? M30: cast iron block, 7 mains, very few design flaws (oil spray bar banjo bolts).
M60: aluminum block, 5 or 7 mains (depending), two heads/valvetrains, higher running temp, a few design flaws (stupid headers, oil pump bolts). Drinks more premium gas.

I assert that the E34 was never meant to be a V8 powered car. They made it work because that's what the market was doing at the time. If one considers the arguments between E28 and E34 zealots as to why each model better matches BMW's mission statement, the V8 addition makes a lot of sense. All V8 E34s that I've seen are quieter and more "refined" when compared to the 6 cylinders, and the weight distribution of the V8 and relocation of components to fit it changes the way the car feels. The additional power is almost an afterthought; the car seems to have been built to appease the professional businessperson side of BMW's market than that of the enthusiast: hush hush cabin, engine is only there when you want to hear it.

They are more work from the standpoint of it taking more time to service them. More parts, more mass = more things to go wrong. Remember the old adage, Keep it Short and Simple -- it still applies.

At the end of the day, it all depends on what you want. But I think there's a reason why Alpina built the B10 BiTurbo, while I am unaware of anything special that was done for the V8 E34 by them.

best, whit

[Jay 535i]

So clearly the only sensible choice is a B10 or M5. :D

[infinity5]

are the 6's really that much louder? You say more refined, did they add additional sound dampening insulation and whatnot to the v8's? more leather, wood trim, etc? were the traction control options not availible in the smaller engines?

all the BMW press releases i've read always mention, no matter the engine, about how their new piston/valve train design is quieter. I wouldn't consider an e34 anyhting but a big fat luxury sedan no matter what engine you put in it. isn't the entire rear suspension desgin considered "luxury-ride" oriented? Its not a huge car, but if i wanted something sporty thats all about driver experience i'd get an e30 or something.

I think bmw wanted to make v8's, and this is how they stared. the m60 and m62 look virtually identical. If it's true about v-engines vs I-6's then i'd be curious about the M engines now-a-days.

[Bill R.]

market driven thing... the wealthy fatasses that they wanted to sell to wanted v8's as a status thing, mercedes had the same problem, it wasn't an engineering decision at all, it was strictly to lure a type of buyer that they were seeking... the reason that the m30 is louder is that it doesn't have hydraulic lifters and that it doesn't have a specially designed insulated plastic cover over the motor to hide everything and quiet it down. The sole purpose for that plastic engine cover is to make it quiet , another thing that the buyer they were trying to attract wanted. They were going away from their enthusiast heritage and going for the well heeled buyers that wanted cars as appliances.





are the 6's really that much louder? You say more refined, did they add additional sound dampening insulation and whatnot to the v8's? more leather, wood trim, etc? were the traction control options not availible in the smaller engines?

all the BMW press releases i've read always mention, no matter the engine, about how their new piston/valve train design is quieter. I wouldn't consider an e34 anyhting but a big fat luxury sedan no matter what engine you put in it. isn't the entire rear suspension desgin considered "luxury-ride" oriented? Its not a huge car, but if i wanted something sporty thats all about driver experience i'd get an e30 or something.

I think bmw wanted to make v8's, and this is how they stared. the m60 and m62 look virtually identical. If it's true about v-engines vs I-6's then i'd be curious about the M engines now-a-days.

[Bill R.]

piston always wears more heavily since the forces of gravity push the piston down against the cylinder wall on one side.. whereas the inline sixes wear more evenly and less since they are upright.




market driven thing... the wealthy fatasses that they wanted to sell to wanted v8's as a status thing, mercedes had the same problem, it wasn't an engineering decision at all, it was strictly to lure a type of buyer that they were seeking... the reason that the m30 is louder is that it doesn't have hydraulic lifters and that it doesn't have a specially designed insulated plastic cover over the motor to hide everything and quiet it down. The sole purpose for that plastic engine cover is to make it quiet , another thing that the buyer they were trying to attract wanted. They were going away from their enthusiast heritage and going for the well heeled buyers that wanted cars as appliances.

[stx133]

still like the 300+ horses from the stock 540, the six needs a huffer to get there..

[infinity5]

hm!

Then my last question:

What's the deal with the m20/m50? That seems like a very small engine for the weight it's having to push, and those were made from day one(the m20). My car is slow enough, and I always figured that was because these cars weren't really ever made to accelerate fast, except maybe the M's. I can't imagine driving an m20.

I'm just getting the feeling you're saying BMWs intent in making the e34 chassis was to satisfy the enthusiast. And my idea of enthusiasts car isn't something with the kind of numbers you get when you look at these cars. I think they handle exceptionally well and are beautiful but i just wouldn't consider it a car whose engine you were meant to "hear". If it wasn't it wouldn't be covered in leather, with power/heated seats and burled wood trim. looking at the sound damping in the ETK makes me giggle, theres just so much of it. I might call it an enthusiasts car from the standpoint of its styling, its quality, its handling, and its feel, but not its engine.

[infinity5]

also- would i be wrong in saying the majority of e34's were automatics? i think, if anyting, thats the most deciding factor in defining a car for driving enthusiasts.

[Kalevera]

still like the 300+ horses from the stock 540, the six needs a huffer to get there..

300+? 286 is a more accurate figure ;)

[infinity5]

also- would i be wrong in saying the majority of e34's were automatics? i think, if anyting, thats the most deciding factor in defining a car for *driving* enthusiasts.
but there are other reasons, of course, for being an enthusiast for a particular brand.

[stx133]

nice observation, the auto in my 540 is completely different than any other auto (domestic) that i have driven. the car's dynamics and road holding are still better than any of the current family car contenders (not luxury)- Ford, Holden Toyota and Mitsubishi.

[Kalevera]

Infinity, I do believe you're starting to sound like an E28 zealot :)

Anyway, I own an E34 because it is more aesthetically pleasing to me than is the E28. Yes, it's a heavier car.

I have a lot of trouble swallowing the argument that any of these cars are "slow". Yes, by today's focus on acceleration, they are. You intimated, I think correctly, that these cars weren't built for off the line speed. Don't forget about the displacements that made their ways into most Euro E34s: the M42/44, turbo diesels, other baby motors. Those cars still cruise, despite their speed limitations.

People often forget this: BMW is a car company, in business to make money selling cars. They have to conform to what markets they cannot create or heavily influence in order to achieve that end. The lead designer, in theory the person who's supposed to be looking out for the enthusiasts, represents less than 50% of the equation. The fat cats decide the rest. The fat cats generally like everything that people on this board do not: automatic transmissions, comfort seats, excessive use of computer modules/electrics (and probably even the 55mph shimmy :D)....That kind of stuff sells cars to yuppies, real estate agents, and lazy doctors, who make up the bulk of the people you'll find leasing or buying anything off of the showroom floor.

Case in point: is there ANYBODY on this board who is the original owner of their E34?






....I didn't think so.



best, whit

[DueyT]

300+? 286 is a more accurate figure ;)
Well, I'd say Mark D's chip easily puts me over 300...and my 6-shooter Getrag is till going strong too!

To each his own, but for as sporting and "brute-force manly" as a big 3.5 I-6 is, they still were only putting out 225-ish HP for an engine that weighs darned near the same as the aluminum V-8. About the only mod I've seem for an M60B40 is a set of higher lift, longer duration Schrick cams that put an M60 at about 320-325hp.

An '8 is nothing to sneeze at...

FWIW,
Duey

[digitaldragon03]

Hmm, wasnt the V8 created because BMW had only straight sixes and V12s at the time? That seems like a huge difference in cylinders to me. A V8 would naturally fit in between the 6 and the 12. Imagine a six cylinder inside of a 7 series, sllllllooooowwwwww. The V8 not only has the hp to push around a big heavy car as a 5 or 7 series, it also has the torque to make it fun to drive.

[Stacy (Sydney)]

Why is the 540i haevier than a 535i ??
Engine weights being the same sounds correct - alum' vs iron block.
But why is the 540i heavier ?? - options such as electric seats ??
My 535i owners manual has the ol' girl at 1550 kg - but the 540i (I may be wrong) is about 200kg heavier , as is the M5 - is there a difference or are my figures wrong??
Weight still 50/50 front rear for the 540i.

I'm damn curious - I'd like to know which to trade up to.

[NAT9566]

first off.... the 3.0 v8 to my knowledge and research was bmw's after thought to the 1.5 v8 f1 engine of the late 80's ..they did want to make a come back... and the thing is ... because engine had to be turbo charged ( originally) the walls were immensely thick... there you have the experimental engine..... and true at that time bmw had 6s and v12 but the v8 was not their first.... as the 50s and 60s saw birth of various v8s and 70s saw the death of most of them.... even the v12 was an 80s development... the e38 was using it so was the silver seraph..... it was perhaps an attempt to win american hearts with the v8..... as the 6 was more architectural in feel.....
and the 3.0 v8 was a thirsty brute.... consuming more fuel than a m30 3.5 6inline... made lots of people wonder what was that car for....perhaps it was the injectors?

but who am i to talk... i run a m20 euro spec with a 1990cc engine.... you chaps know the euro specs... only 130 bhp... and perhaps 130nm of torque... on a good day... :)

am i on topic.... whatever it is.. the v8s are good engines.. but is not in the same league as the 3.4 m5 engine.... and the b10 is a different monster all together...

[SRR2]

I was.

[SRR2]

Mounted farther aft. I've owned a number of these (E28, E34, E39) and I don't see it. Do you have any actual measurements to back up this assertion? If there is a difference, I guarantee you that it's way less than the difference in engine length.

Weights. The M30 clocks in at 315lb. The M60 is 321. The M62/TU is 308, which, you will notice is LESS than the M30. So Bill's point is proven as far as I can see. Engine weight essentially the same, center of gravity for the V8 closer to the center of the car. QED.

See here for a nice reference on engines: http://www.bimmerforums.com/engine_faq/

[chefdanny121]

http://www.e38.org/koalamotorsport/v8shortblock.htm found this link with interesting info on the subject!!!

[mikell]

My question is are the v8 e34 reliable as the m50v6 in the e34's. My mechanic in Boston has told me to stay away from the v8's for they are a money pit on wheels. He claims that BMW has never made a great v8 in his eyes,that the v6's are the way to go!!! " they are bulletproof" But in my search for a new e34 their are alot of 540's out their in great shape,manual trany,and w/ low miles on them too!!

Looks like lots of different slants on the 6 cyl / v8 question, and automotive life as we know it. So, here is my experience: I have a '95 530 that has 200,000 miles on it. It runs great, thought the rear pitmans are beginning to draw my attention. The reason I bought it instead of a 525, was the transmission - it has a wonderful 5 speed auto (had to have the auto for commuting and spousal reasons) while the 525 had a 4 speeder. The engine performance is not too different - the 530 seems to have a touch more mid-range torque. It also has lots of options installed, which may have been simply the way the oringinal owner ordered it.

I have owned the car since July 1997, and I have done regular maintenance on it and the general stuff you see mentioned on this board - thrust arms, control arms, cooling system - what I consider normal upkeep on an older car. No major engine work and no transmission work. I have probably spent more having parking lot dings fixed, or at least those expenditures hurt more.

The way I look at it, every year I spend on this car much less than what I'd have to make in 2 monthly note payments for a newer BMW. And, insurance is much easier on the wallet, too. I can afford a new car, but I cannot make it make sense for me.

The driving experience is what it's all about. There is none better, in my book. If this car craps out in a big (expensive) way, I'll either bite the bullet and fix it, or maybe look for another, lower mileage e34 - but, I'd love to have the 4.0 liter V8 next time.

Happy hunting.

[Interceptor]

I have a lot of trouble swallowing the argument that any of these cars are "slow". Yes, by today's focus on acceleration, they are. You intimated, I think correctly, that these cars weren't built for off the line speed. Don't forget about the displacements that made their ways into most Euro E34s: the M42/44, turbo diesels, other baby motors. Those cars still cruise, despite their speed limitations.Errrm... M42/44 in an E34? I think not. :) European E34 got the M40/43. E30/E36 got the M42 and finally, from '96 on the E36 got the improved M42 known as the M44. The M42/M44 engine can be found in 318is with 140 HP. I have a clip of a stock 318is E36 smoking two 320i with 150 HP without any effort. Weight difference?

[Jay 535i]

Mounted farther aft. I've owned a number of these (E28, E34, E39) and I don't see it. Do you have any actual measurements to back up this assertion? If there is a difference, I guarantee you that it's way less than the difference in engine length.

Weights. The M30 clocks in at 315lb. The M60 is 321. The M62/TU is 308, which, you will notice is LESS than the M30. So Bill's point is proven as far as I can see. Engine weight essentially the same, center of gravity for the V8 closer to the center of the car. QED.

See here for a nice reference on engines: http://www.bimmerforums.com/engine_faq/

As I said, I was reponding to Inifinity's request for me to make a generalization about vee versus inline engines, all things being equal. As for the actual implementation of the engines in the E34, I don't claim to know the respective benefits of one engine versus the other. I'm certainly not familliar with all of the variables and thought processes that go in to making these decisions at BMW. But my generalization is correct.

Why does the current M3 have a newly-developed 345bhp inline-six when BMW already had a 333bhp V8 that would have done much the same job? The answer is that an inline engine is better suited to spirited driving, all things being equal.

The only reason the M cars are moving to vee engines is because the market is beginning to demand more horsepower than can reasonably be squeezed out of a six, and for the marketing reasons mentioned earlier (e.g. bragging rights, supposed similarity to an F1 engine, etc.)

To draw on an extreme example, witness TVR's Speed Six engine. Roughly the same horsepower as the old Rover V8s TVR used to use, but the Speed Six supposedly transforms the car's behaviour. That's because of the dynamic advantages of the inline engine, mostly owing to it's mounting deep into what ought to be the passenger compartment. A V8 is too wide for that.

[motuman]

Very thoughtful and informative answers to this man's questions. At the end of the day, doesn't it really come down to this...

Are you willing to pay more (in potential maintenance costs) for the additional horsepower?

It is impossible to argue with Bill R's compreheive list of cost adders, but who amoung us would turn down V8 HP or an Aplina Turbo if the costs were the same? I have been struggling with that question myself and since I am a DIY'er decided to pick-up a 540 M-Sport (cough**moneypit**) and put my rock solid 535 on the market. May the force be with us (V8 owners).

[motuman]

piston always wears more heavily since the forces of gravity push the piston down against the cylinder wall on one side.. whereas the inline sixes wear more evenly and less since they are upright.

That's interesting. Do you know if the BMW boxer motorcyle engines have the same type of uneven wear? I had always heard they wear evenly even though they are horizontal. Maybe that was just a urban myth?

[Bill R.]

piston skirt, i can tell you this from many years of VW/Porsche 4/6 boxer experience..They offset the piston pin in the piston to try and compensate for this as well as quieting down piston slap but the wear still is affected by gravity. (most of the aircooled vw's didn't last long enough for this to be really noticed though, at least not here in Az, with the amibients here and the typical 60's and 70's drivers that we had then)






That's interesting. Do you know if the BMW boxer motorcyle engines have the same type of uneven wear? I had always heard they wear evenly even though they are horizontal. Maybe that was just a urban myth?

[Jay 535i]

Very interesting.

The cylinders in the straight six engine aren't straight up and down, though, are they? I thought they were canted to lower the height of the engine, in which case they'd suffer the same uneven wear as V8.

What's needed here is a mechanical motor mount that rotates the engine every so often, like a tourbillon in an expensive wristwatch rotates the movement to compensate for the effects of gravity. ;)

Okay, so if a Patek Phillipe watch with a tourbillon costs $300,000, then a BMW with a similar device would cost....

[Kalevera]

Errrm... M42/44 in an E34? I think not. :) European E34 got the M40/43. E30/E36 got the M42 and finally, from '96 on the E36 got the improved M42 known as the M44. The M42/M44 engine can be found in 318is with 140 HP. I have a clip of a stock 318is E36 smoking two 320i with 150 HP without any effort. Weight difference?
Shows you how much I know about small displacement 5 and 7 series euro cars ;)


best, whit

[infinity5]

Very interesting.

The cylinders in the straight six engine aren't straight up and down, though, are they? I thought they were [sl]anted to lower the height of the engine, in which case they'd suffer the same uneven wear as a V8.
Any input guys? not having a 6er i didn't even think of that, but it looks true from engine bay pics. Bill?

[SharkmanBMW]

300+? 286 is a more accurate figure ;)

I thought it was 282???!

[Don]

There is a problem with the oil pump bolts getting loose after a period of time. In addition there are other problems that I don't remember. If someone e-mails Bimmer the Tech guys can fill you in on the problems. I put a copy of their answer on this board about 4 or 5 years ago

Don



I am in the market for another e34 and I am not having much luck finding a 525i that is in better shape than my car.Which has alittle rust developing on the lower parts of the doors and a slight gliche with the trany the car is perfect! My question is are the v8 e34 reliable as the m50v6 in the e34's. My mechanic in Boston has told me to stay away from the v8's for they are a money pit on wheels. He claims that BMW has never made a great v8 in his eyes,that the v6's are the way to go!!! " they are bulletproof" But in my search for a new e34 their are alot of 540's out their in great shape,manual trany,and w/ low miles on them too!! :D I just need some options on this matter and would appreciate any I can get on my car dilemma :(
Thanks in advance for all your trusted opinions!!!!!!!!
Daniel

[timeout]

Originally Posted by jaylebo
Why does the current M3 have a newly-developed 345bhp inline-six when BMW already had a 333bhp V8 that would have done much the same job? The answer is that an inline engine is better suited to spirited driving, all things being equal.

Indeed, driving a 89 E34 535 was just that, spirited, and especially when the owner took back the wheel. To me - and I'm not a race driver - the difference in performance is not that important, or even evident in everyday driving (city). But I do love the exhaust note (stock) and well, the fun of driving a car with more than enough power (for me ;)). And being a V8 fan, it all adds up.
I've only got my 540 (150k) since last year, and I change the oil + filter every 3 months in addition to regular servicing. No engine problems, new injectors and a vacuum leak the only maintenance issues so far. The auto transmission reluctant to shift when cold, but no problem after first time into 3rd, and only on a cold night/morning. Planning to have it rebuilt next year. A bit thirsty in town maybe, but amazingly well behaved in the country. Overall very happy with my choice.

[digitaldragon03]

Why does the current M3 have a newly-developed 345bhp inline-six when BMW already had a 333bhp V8 that would have done much the same job? The answer is that an inline engine is better suited to spirited driving, all things being equal.Uhh at the time the E46 M3 was being developed, BMW's only V8 put out 282, the same as our M60. Then later the 325 hp V8 came out for the 7 series.

The reason the V8 wasnt used was that it didnt fit the M philosophy of high revving, low displacement, high hp engines. When the Euro E36 M3 was making 321 hp out of 3.2 litres, does it really make sense to change the engine to a 4.4 litre making 325? No.

[540Dave]

I thought it was 282???!

282 is still more than 180 or 210...lots more. I have a friend who owns a mid 90's 535. I think it has about 200 or 210. You guys would know more than I.
We have lined them up in a few different situations. Off the line. From 100km/h and beyond. It's not a contest. Yes you may pay a bit more here and there. You may want to call them quirky ifyou don't have one. But nothing replaces the beastly surge you get when my VANOS V8 is working it's majic and holds you in the seat as long as you are brave enough to hold the pedal down. No 525/535 can say the same. It just not the same. Unless your car has an "M" on it somewhere you can't compare.

[632 Regal]

yes...is it too early for me to start making an ass outta myself or should i save it for better?

[Incantation]

lmfao

[han]

What is the fuel comsumption for the m30 3.5? I have a 530i V8 and get around 22mpg in busy hilly cities 34mpg on the motorway and can get up 40 if i go at 60mph. Is the m30 really much better than this? When you pay 1pound for a litre of petrol consumption seems alot more important.

[Bill R.]

The us cars that chime in aren't going to get quite as good as that.




What is the fuel comsumption for the m30 3.5? I have a 530i V8 and get around 22mpg in busy hilly cities 34mpg on the motorway and can get up 40 if i go at 60mph. Is the m30 really much better than this? When you pay 1pound for a litre of petrol consumption seems alot more important.

[Alexlind123]

The difference in power between the 535i and the 530i is very small. I have seen 0-60 figures putting the 535i ahead and vice versa. Considering this, with nikasil issues for the 530i and the know reliability of the "bulletproof" straight six (535i) i think i would be more apt to go for the 535i. Given the choice between a 535i and a 540i i would certainly take the 540i, nikasil issues aside. If you really want some "snort" you could consider the 750il, but some parts are quite expensive. It is my understanding that the spark plug wires cost hundreds of dollars a set. The 750il has a 6.5second 0-60 time, with the car weighing what it does this is an impressive figure; and when you think about that 0-60 time on a big, heavy car one can imagine the forces in play at 70, 80, 90 and 100mph!

[Bill R.]

.
282 is still more than 180 or 210...lots more. I have a friend who owns a mid 90's 535. I think it has about 200 or 210. You guys would know more than I.
We have lined them up in a few different situations. Off the line. From 100km/h and beyond. It's not a contest. Yes you may pay a bit more here and there. You may want to call them quirky ifyou don't have one. But nothing replaces the beastly surge you get when my VANOS V8 is working it's majic and holds you in the seat as long as you are brave enough to hold the pedal down. No 525/535 can say the same. It just not the same. Unless your car has an "M" on it somewhere you can't compare.

[peks]

The us cars that chime in aren't going to get quite as good as that.

sure hope so, you cant barely get those number in my buddys geo metro

[Traian]

I love my car but beware the running costs. Those who say running a 540i and a 535i is in the same ballpark price wise must have miracle cars. Some things to keep in mind: 8qt of motor oil vs em <8; 8 spark plugs vs 6; 2 fuel filters vs 1; 2 O2 sensors vs 1; 2 valve cover gaskets vs 1, special fancy gearbox oil vs ATF; 80L tank of fancy expensive gas, etc... Somone probably mentioned all this but it is not trivial: the maintenance alone takes a big toll for me.

[saluki540i]

I just bought my 95 540i 6 spd. from my dad about a month ago. He owned as of late 97 - bought from the original owner. Aside from the usual electrical stuff (drivers side rear door window inop. & "fixed") 3 times and a few check engine lights for emmission related O2 sensor stuff, and a radiator letting go at one of the main hose outlets, it's been a good car. If you can do some or all the maintenance on the car, it is even more appealing. The dealer service is a killer on repairs. Currently I'm putting in a new clutch kit, flywheel, rear main seal, valve cover gaskets, and replacing all the hardware for the exhaust. These are pretty easy cars to work on too. I'm partial to the e34's though, as this is our second one. The first was a zinnabar? red 535i stick. BTW, it had many of the same electrical stuff happen as this one.

[Cambridge]

I'm very happy with mine and it hasn't been a money pit.

I imagine if a bunch of stuff started to let go at once it could get irritating. The 540 has two of several items where your other E34's have one (e.g. two O2 sensors, 2 cats, 2 valve cover gaskets, etc.) I guess so far I'm just beating the odds.

Of course, an M5 would have been nice, but was beyond my means at the time. I like the 540 because it's not beyond the average DIY person to service, and the "performance" items are stock; no aftermarket add ons needed to get the extra push.

[Marshy]

To draw on an extreme example, witness TVR's Speed Six engine. Roughly the same horsepower as the old Rover V8s TVR used to use, but the Speed Six supposedly transforms the car's behaviour. That's because of the dynamic advantages of the inline engine, mostly owing to it's mounting deep into what ought to be the passenger compartment. A V8 is too wide for that.

The Rover V8 engined TVRs still had the engine a long way back: just behind the front "axle" in fact. Footwells were quite small as a result and access to the battery (buried in the passenger footwell) required one to be upside down in the passenger seat, legs in the air, head in the footwell. Roof off, naturally.

http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/d/6948-2/DCP_0484.jpg

http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/d/6965-1/tvr_engine.jpg

The handling of the straight six cars was also vastly improved simply because TVR started paying much more attention at that time to handling finesse as well as brute force power which until then had been something of a trademark.

[540Dave]

.
Owners manual says (single) VANOS and 282hp with the M60 which is..I believe... the engine in my car. Either way...not a 525 I have seen that can outrun it.

[Elekta]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/bmw/cc9dcb52.jpg
Sometimes when you can't make up your mind, you just get both.

I would take my 530iT any day over a 525iT.

I would take my 535iA any day over a 530iA.

The 535 has 35k more miles on it and has had a a third of the maintenance costs. Control exception is the 535 is my wife's car, and I have dumped a ton of money in mine mostly for enjoyment. I have completed about 2/3's of BillR's list though.

If only dSylvia had a chip for my Euro 9/92 build date all German 530iT

ps, what's the cost of the valve body replacement. Did you get it from Kurt?

[genphreak]

Why is the 540i haevier than a 535i ??
Engine weights being the same sounds correct - alum' vs iron block.
But why is the 540i heavier ?? - options such as electric seats ??
My 535i owners manual has the ol' girl at 1550 kg - but the 540i (I may be wrong) is about 200kg heavier , as is the M5 - is there a difference or are my figures wrong?? Weight still 50/50 front rear for the 540i. I'm damn curious - I'd like to know which to trade up to.Hey Stacy,
The 540 driveline weighs more. The suspension components have a bit of extra meat (shock mounts, shock pistons, etc) and then there were the accessories you mention plus heavier sway bars.

The 540 probably has a heavier clutch, tranny and flywheel as the V8 would eat a less capable driveline...(perhaps the diff has more meat in it too?) :) Nick

[Paul in NZ]

yes diff is the LARGE case.and shares this with at least the 3.8M5 much meatier component than other e 34`s

[Pixcutter]

I own a '94 540 and my wife has a '94 530 with 186000 miles. They are as reliable as much as you can ask for. You've run into the "I know the sixes, and the 8's cost more to fix" syndrome. Check compression on a possible buy. If your over 100K miles and compression is still good, buy it (all things being ok) because they are just too much fun. Lots of HP is great (my stock 540 is so fast I'm gonna get arrested. I don't care!) and they get good mileage (I'm averaging 19-20 mpg, and so is my wife.) Yes, there are a few problems (like the outrageously expensive radiator) but other than that, you'll love it.