OT : Do stealers suck ?

[Zeuk in Oz]

My Mercedes ML 270 CDI is now out of warranty after 3 relatively trouble free years and 106,000 km (touch wood).
Thought I'd do an extra oil & filter change on the weekend - Whit's oil sludge thread is still in my mind.
Wasn't I surprised when I removed the engine bay cover from under the front of the engine to see the drain plug, a rubber pad and a couple of pipes etc below it in pristine condition - no sign of ever having been contaminated with used engine oil.
If they have ever drained oil out of the sump plug I will eat my hat ! (Unless they use some sort of fancy funnel to avoid spattering the pipes ?)
Which led me to the next thought .... how does my stealer change oil ?
Is it conceivable that they actually find it faster, easier and less messy to suck the oil out of the motor through the dipstick tube instead of letting it drain ?
This would obviously lead to a very inferior oil change, with possibly bits of metal etc still sitting in the sump.
Am getting an alternator replaced under warranty on Wendesday so will make some discreet enquiries.
Or am I just being paranoid ?

[mattyb]

oh no, let me, i love this kind of ****! before you give the game up lets do a bit of home work before you can stick it to em, other wise you cant get a result with one shot. immediatley record your observations of what u have discovered. then work back from that in chronoligical order, record service dates, conversations wtih who and when and your own understanding of the service process, as far back as u can go. develop a platform for fact. Any multinational who has retained legal advice will usually be very wary of any body who has facts, read -got their **** together, about their circumstances and would rather concede than fight, especially a local stealer. im a factual investigator and absolutely enjoy this sort of stuff, if there s result you can buy me a beer ok! dont say a word on wednesday cause what would u be expecting from them, yes we never changed it ! or some clap trap that they hope u dont understand. pm me if u want to look further into it.

[mattyb]

almost sounds like a sevice 11 at bmw!

[wingman]

almost sounds like a sevice 11 at bmw!
This kind of thing gets my back up. I 'invested' in BMW roadside service for my E12, you know the one where 'experts' attend your breakdown. The guy didn't know how to lift the bonnet!!! My battery wasn't charging so they towed it to the stealership. I got a call about a number of problems with the car. I asked about the regulator and they said thay hadn't checked that yet! The car came back to me lookiing like they'd parked it under the local flight path and covered in oily finger marks. BMW Australia then had the hide to get a velvety voiced rep (It was a young lady.. sorry girls), to call me asking how my experience was. I let go with both barrels of course and vowed NEVER to return it to a main dealer. Smash them within an inch of their lives. If they are caught out lying sue them so badly that the Dealer Principal's ancestors feel it!!!

[wingman]

actually I asked about the alternator NOT the regulator!

[SRR2]

You might take a sample of the engine oil out through the dipstick tube and send it off to an oil lab for analysis. Here in the US you can get that done for around $25USD. It would give you definitive proof of oil condition. Case closed if the oil is contaminated and worn out.

[Bill R.]

do use a mercedes special tool, oil extractor that is made for them to go into the dipstick hole and down to the bottom of the sump where it usually gets out more than just pulling the drain plug, and yes they do have a special funnel to keep oil from getting all over the place when they drain the
270 with the 612 motor, and also on the 612 they have to remove a cross brace to drain the oil from the sump if they go that route.http://www.bimmer.info/%7Ebill/ml270.jpg






My Mercedes ML 270 CDI is now out of warranty after 3 relatively trouble free years and 106,000 km (touch wood).
Thought I'd do an extra oil & filter change on the weekend - Whit's oil sludge thread is still in my mind.
Wasn't I surprised when I removed the engine bay cover from under the front of the engine to see the drain plug, a rubber pad and a couple of pipes etc below it in pristine condition - no sign of ever having been contaminated with used engine oil.
If they have ever drained oil out of the sump plug I will eat my hat ! (Unless they use some sort of fancy funnel to avoid spattering the pipes ?)
Which led me to the next thought .... how does my stealer change oil ?
Is it conceivable that they actually find it faster, easier and less messy to suck the oil out of the motor through the dipstick tube instead of letting it drain ?
This would obviously lead to a very inferior oil change, with possibly bits of metal etc still sitting in the sump.
Am getting an alternator replaced under warranty on Wendesday so will make some discreet enquiries.
Or am I just being paranoid ?

[ryan roopnarine]

bill, do you know off the top of your head what model/year they started with the vacuum? i told a diy'er type that was about to buy an MB that recent ones required (i know im wrong now, as zeuk says there's a drain) it be vacuumed out, but that i wasn't sure which. also, anybody know which bmw model requires the vacuum to change the oil? if there's a drain im sure that second or third owners will just get used to taking the cover off the bottom or using a hole saw to drill access to it through the cover.

[Bill R.]

end up being in a such a lousy place with brackets and such to remove to keep the oil from draining all over everything... Taking the plastic cover off is needed on just about every newer mercedes.. you can do it without but i always take it off so i can see the bottom of the motor to check for leaks or any other problems. I'm not sure when mercedes started using the vacum, they don't use it on all models either just the ones where a routing oil change would take too long if they removed all the crap in the way, since nobody is willing to pay any extra for this type of work.





bill, do you know off the top of your head what model/year they started with the vacuum? i told a diy'er type that was about to buy an MB that recent ones required (i know im wrong now, as zeuk says there's a drain) it be vacuumed out, but that i wasn't sure which. also, anybody know which bmw model requires the vacuum to change the oil? if there's a drain im sure that second or third owners will just get used to taking the cover off the bottom or using a hole saw to drill access to it through the cover.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Thanks Bill - what a wonderful source of information you are !
I apologise unconditionally to all stealers. :p
I do find it interesting that you say that the vacuum technique gets out more than the drain plug but will defer to your superior knowledge. I suppose this would depend on the state of the oil as well.
Does this mean that you, as a mechanic, use this technique because of its greater efficacy ? Which technique do you use on your own cars ?

[Bill R.]

cars if you look at the location of the drain plug its high enough up on the side of the pan that not all the oil drains out.. or if its on the bottom theres usually a boss on the inside of the pan that means that the very bottom doesn't drain.. Every car is different though and since i haven't seen yours here in the US (i don't think we got them) i can't say that absolutely positively your drain plug won't get more than the oil sucker will but since there's a factory bulletin on it they must consider it adequate..
As far as me, I don't have one of those doohickey's and always thought they were for candy azzes... Seems to be cheating to me to change your oil with one... but then again most of the cars i work on are fairly easy to get to the oil filter and drain plug...My story might change if i had to do a lot of really difficult ones...




Thanks Bill - what a wonderful source of information you are !
I apologise unconditionally to all stealers. :p
I do find it interesting that you say that the vacuum technique gets out more than the drain plug but will defer to your superior knowledge. I suppose this would depend on the state of the oil as well.
Does this mean that you, as a mechanic, use this technique because of its greater efficacy ? Which technique do you use on your own cars ?

[SRR2]

This is hilarious. I wonder what Jiffy Lube does when one of these babies shows up.

[mattyb]

well it would still be interesting to see if thats the case, if so, and they show u the duvee lackey then i shall remain humbled as im sure your not the village idiot.

[Zeuk in Oz]

im sure your not the village idiot.

No, I'm next on the list ! :D

Will let you know what they say !

[johnnyturbo2002]

we say knock on wood...touvch wood is pretty cool.

[Zeuk in Oz]

we say knock on wood...touvch wood is pretty cool.

Laziness ! :D

[Zeuk in Oz]

Got the car back yesterday - had a new A170 to drive while it was being fixed - quite unimpressive. I haven't driven a 1 series but it would have to be far better than the A170.
They replaced the alternator, which, by the way, is water cooled ! Amazing.
Asked them about oil changes and yes, Bill R is right (isn't he always?), they suck the oil out.
We live and learn !

[Dan in NZ]

I was looking through the old service records for my car, and the dealer has charged anywhere between 4.5-6.5L of oil... Just shows that for all bmw's fixed price servicing and electronic resources, they still don't know how much oil went in...

Also on servicing, I was talking to a friend who bought a new E46 318i on run-out... He exclaimed "It's done nearly 20,000km and hasn't needed a service yet!"... I would have thought they would a run-in service at a couple of thousand k's at least before getting on the extended service life thing. Oh well, it'll be sold before the warranty runs out, so why bother!

[uscharalph]

"I was looking through the old service records for my car, and the dealer has charged anywhere between 4.5-6.5L of oil... Just shows that for all bmw's fixed price servicing and electronic resources, they still don't know how much oil went in..."

They probably didn't change the filter! LOL!