another discount tire rant

[peks]

I bought a rim from Jeff B to replace my bent basketweave. went to Discount to have two new tires put on the rear while i fix the alignment issue that is wearing my fronts crazy.

I had to watch them carefully. First time I was there the guy started to pry my center cap off with a screw driver. The second time they wrecked one of the caps by trying to jam it on without lining up the tabs. Ever since then I give them very careful directions.

This time as im explaining, the guy looks at me funny and says kind of condecendingly "we work on these things all day." I told him of my prior experiences so he wrote up the work instructions very carefully and had me double check them. I had them rotate the rear rims with the old tires to the front, replace the bent rim with the new one, and put the new tires on the rear.

Sure enough, while I watched, they didnt even touch the rears, just mounted new tires and started to put them back on the front. I ran out there and said "you know the new tires go on the rear, dont you? its in your work instructions." there was three guys on my car because it was already after closing time and they all kind of stopped...looked at each other... looked at the work instructions, looked at each other.. I talked to the manager (the guy who didnt believe i was telling him how to remove center caps) while the knuckleheads in the shop finally started to do it right.. He assured me he'd have a talk with the guys, blah blah...

Sure, its not every day a guy buys only 2 new tires for the rear and wants the old ones rotated to the front, but the directions were pretty clear..

I love their prices and free replacement, free repairs, but i dont know if i want to go back there anymore.

[Jon K]

thats why i liked working at the jaguar dealer... Hunter 9700 for my own use... mounter, remover, alignment rack, etc... and the guys there actually cared about the work they did.

[DanDombrowski]

Man, I feel your pain. I'm only 22 years old, and I've bought about 6 or 7 sets of tires. I've been there. They never do it right. They never torque them down right, they don't balance them, they cut corners, I could go on all day.

You can't just stick your head in the sand and ignore it, because you'll have all kinds of ride problems down the road. But when you start outlining simple directions, they get offended and either cut corners worse or do it wrong on purpose. I could probably write a good 5 pages on all the different ways discount tire places have done things wrong, and who I've had to argue with to make it right.

I'm sure you've been around the block a time or two and know how to maintain a car and deal with managers of these places. But, if you want my advice, I've found that the best way to get get the results that you want is to just hang out with them. When the service tech/manager/office lackey is writing down the instructions, just say "can I go out there and help them out? Its kind of important that its done a certain way". Sometimes the guy at the desk is cool with it, sometimes not. Do it anyway. I just chat with the techs, ask them what kind of cars they have, how they like working here, what they want to do as their next job. Sometimes I fake it, sometimes they're pretty interesting, but EVERY time they're 100% better about doing it right or letting me do it right with them. But hey, YMMV.

For things like torquing the wheels, I usually say "What do you torque the wheels to?" or "I'm pretty sure the torque spec is 88ft lbs. Do you want me to call BMW and check?" That works a lot better than "You better not use an impact gun". Trust me, I've used both lines, and guess which one works.

In your situation, I would say "Oh, I really was hoping to get those new tires on the back, but I understand you're busy. Do you want me to help?" Obviously, they'll say no, but will probably be a little nicer about doing it.

I've delt with these people all kinds of ways. I've stood out there and yelled at the tech about impact guns, bieng careless, not balancing wheels properly, etc etc. But at the end of the day, even if they are stupid, lazy, or just plain hate their job, they're still people. I finally just put myself in their shoes once and said "How would I react if someone yelled at me like this, even if I was wrong?"

Ok, I got a little carried away there. I really am not trying to lecture or be condesending to you, or tell you to lighten up on the tire place, because I probably hate going there just as much as you. I just wanted to give you my experiences in hopes that it might get you better results the next time you go.

[BigKriss]

I bought a rim from Jeff B to replace my bent basketweave. went to Discount to have two new tires put on the rear while i fix the alignment issue that is wearing my fronts crazy.

I had to watch them carefully. First time I was there the guy started to pry my center cap off with a screw driver. The second time they wrecked one of the caps by trying to jam it on without lining up the tabs. Ever since then I give them very careful directions.

This time as im explaining, the guy looks at me funny and says kind of condecendingly "we work on these things all day." I told him of my prior experiences so he wrote up the work instructions very carefully and had me double check them. I had them rotate the rear rims with the old tires to the front, replace the bent rim with the new one, and put the new tires on the rear.

Sure enough, while I watched, they didnt even touch the rears, just mounted new tires and started to put them back on the front. I ran out there and said "you know the new tires go on the rear, dont you? its in your work instructions." there was three guys on my car because it was already after closing time and they all kind of stopped...looked at each other... looked at the work instructions, looked at each other.. I talked to the manager (the guy who didnt believe i was telling him how to remove center caps) while the knuckleheads in the shop finally started to do it right.. He assured me he'd have a talk with the guys, blah blah...

they where doing drugs again. Why do you take it so a shop with such incompetence?

[uscharalph]

First of all Discount Tire is pretty good online. I got a pair of Fakens from them recently. Great price and free shipping. I wouldn't use them to mount the tires though. You're right they cut corners and just don't care enough. I've got a pretty good local tire shop here locally.

I've found that most mechanics aren't very careful with the center caps. From now on, if there's a chance they are going to remove my wheels, I'm taking the caps off before I get to the shop.

[peks]

heh.

I'm 23 so i dont know if that qualifies for "having been around the block"..

I swear these places look for idiots when they're hiring, no offense to any of you who may work in a tire joint and actually care about your job. I just havent had any good experinces with them, and I don't consider it good service when you have to hold their hand to make sure they do the job right.

[DanDombrowski]

Its not, I definitely agree with you there. You just gotta work with what you have. I suppose you could always just leave the car on jacks, bring the tires to them, and take them home.

As for hiring idiots, well, no one wants to work at a discount tire place all day and change oil on minivans for $12.99 after coupon. The good ones go work at dealerships, the bad ones don't make it :(

[Lennyz525i]

Interesting to hear that about discount (america over here) tire. I was once recommended to a discount tire by a mechanic. This was back in florida. I was impressed with how professional and friendly they were. I guess what really makes the difference with those tire places (I've had my fair share of horrible experiences with other tire shops) is the people who work there and especially the manager.

So what would be a good place to bring your car to have tires mounted and balanced?

[Jeff N.]

Yes - it's the 'we're not paid enough to care' problem. I think the turnover rate is pretty high at those places. Imagine being a shop manager and trying to hire someone of quality at near minimum wage.

I once watched a guy install my new tires by taking each tire and smacking it on the rim that was horizontally mounted on the tire machine. He'd pickup the tire and bounce it on the rim to "round" it out and then spin it as he lubed up the edge. Can you say "scratch my powdercoat"!?!? ARGH! I couldn't believe it...

[SRR2]

You're an unusually wise person for your mere 22 years.

[peks]

lesson learned. You get what you pay for.

[SRR2]

Long ago I came to the conclusion that you will pay $X for having a new tire installed. The operative equation is

X = Sqrt(A) + B

where

A = the monetized aggregate value of the damage done to your car and wheels due to incompetence and carelessness, and

B = the amount you are charged for the work.

and

X = $28 most of the time.

The problem is that your credit card sees only B, but your emotional well being is seriously impacted by high values of A, which is invisible to your realtime financial situation and not made up for by corresponding low values of B.

So, by setting B = X by appropriate selection of service facility, A is driven to 0. You pay $28/wheel for careful service, but you go away happy, balanced, and scratch-free.

[uscharalph]

Long ago I came to the conclusion that you will pay $X for having a new tire installed. The operative equation is

X = Sqrt(A) + B

where

A = the monetized aggregate value of the damage done to your car and wheels due to incompetence and carelessness, and

B = the amount you are charged for the work.

and

X = $28 most of the time.

The problem is that your credit card sees only B, but your emotional well being is seriously impacted by high values of A, which is invisible to your realtime financial situation and not made up for by corresponding low values of B.

So, by setting B = X by appropriate selection of service facility, A is driven to 0. You pay $28/wheel for careful service, but you go away happy, balanced, and scratch-free.
Just guessing: math major?

[SRR2]

Naah, just a general pain in the ass.

[Scott H]

Discount Tire has always done well by me and I have bought 4 sets of tires from them over the last 4 years. They've always used the Hunter 9700 as I have asked and have always respected the E31 turbines and E34 M5 wheels I have brought to them. And when I went to each place, I saw the same faces.

Scott

[Guapo]

I've found that the Discount Tire places vary from store to store. There are two that are quite local to me, one of them I have bought about 5 different sets of tires from, the other I wouldn't pee on it if it were on fire.

I've taken my 300ZX in to the other one a number of times, and have always been impressed with the work done there. They're always very receptive to me hanging out over their shoulder and watching them work, and the last time I was there they had some trouble getting one of my 275/40-17's to balance correctly. Without me asking, they removed the tire from the wheel and remounted it to achieve a better balance. They're always willing to meet Tire Rack's prices, so I really have no reason to buy online.

I guess the moral of my story is, YMMV.

[632 Regal]

discount hire the people that cant land the McDonalds window teller positions, Big O tire gets the Discount tire rejects.

Big Hoe scratched 3 rims and bent the last one...all brand new goods, loose wheels and tires. After about 3 hours they rushed and loaded them in my car with the face of the wheels so I couldnt see them.

I put them on the car and WHAM it was like square tires...went to Nikolas sport and the weights were WAY off, then I see my brand new wheel moving around like a bellie dancer. Man I was pissed, I mean ALL 4 of my BRAND NEW rims?

I went back to them 4 times and didnt get anywhere. I could sue them but then have to prove that the rims were brand new etc etc etc. I buffed the scratches as best I could and bought a replacement for the bad one. Very tempting to toss it through their window...which I would if I was 20ish again, just not worth the point now.

[bimmerd00d]

stand out there next to your car while they're working, they do a damn good job if you do that. I refuse to let people work on my car unless i either trust them, or i'm standing there helping/watching.

[Torque]

I definitely hate going to a tire place as well as most of you guys. One broke 3 out of 4 center caps on my dad's older Eagle Talon and then tried to tell us they were like that ... nothing came out of it because the manager wasn't there.

Not too long ago, another tire place crushed in a piece of my sideskirt because the idiot working the jack didn't know where to jack the car up ... I didn't see it right then, but it scraped some of the coating from it and bent it in slightly. If I saw it, I would have killed someone.

[peks]

lol

[Robin-535im]

I've found that the best way to get get the results that you want is to just hang out with them.

Dan - my friend, you are 1000% correct. "Only 22" you say... it sometimes takes people a whole lifetime to learn what you just wrote.

[Robin-535im]

However, I will never go to DT again after my own personal experiences. High-pressure sales people trying to trick you into buying expensive stuff you don't need. I shudder to think about all the poor grandma-types that go in there and come out $1000 poorer... when all they needed was a flat fixed on a good set of tires.

[shragon]

it's america's tire over here in the bay area. anyway, i've used two in san jose and another in mountain view, and rarely have i had any problems. the worst thing that's happened is they ordered a tire and didn't arrive on time, and they failed to notify me. other than that, no problems. then again, i do walk around outside half the time and keep an eye on them. ;)

[callen]

Bring loose tires!.....I've had Discount tire mess up rims...drop centercaps etc. It's a pain but Discount or any other tire place never see's my cars...never. Lug nuts get torqued properly...caps don't get scratched....they still though nick rims evertime..if I had room in garage I'd mount and balance myself.

Standard operating procedure for Discount is pop off center caps and let them fall to the concrete....they suck really bad...

Also had a "regional Manager" lie to me about refinishing all four wheels of his new 540 and they looked as good as original....yea right.

[JohnC]

that sucks. i only go to one discount tire where they know and they even remember to move the tstar covers. at first i thought they were simply not roating so i tagged the wheels. but on my moms car i bring it to any of their branches. once i was sitting there for an hour and a half cause the car is "on like lift now" only to find out half an hour after that, that they did not have the tire i paid for.

[JohnC]

that sucks. i only go to one discount tire where they know and they even remember to move the tstar covers. at first i thought they were simply not roating so i tagged the wheels. but on my moms car i bring it to any of their branches. once i was sitting there for an hour and a half cause the car is "on like lift now" only to find out half an hour after that, that they did not have the tire i paid for.

oh yea i think its pretty messed up when women go in with buicks and since they have a "high performance" car they will need the high perfomance tires. but i love it when the ricer guys go in and since they have all those mods they should also get the softest street legal tires available that happened to my friend with a sentra he ended up needing new front tires after like 2 months.

[DanDombrowski]

Thanks man, I appreciate the compliment.

[DanDombrowski]

Again, thanks, I appreciate the compliment. Just tryin to pass my experience along :)

Take care

[rockyfeller]

I have a bit of experience night-managing a major tire shop so I'll be honest to say that the tech's jobs totally suck. I can understand why they may get into bad moods. On top of the low pay about 90% of the guys are bonafide jerks. These guys are in a wreckless mood 24/7. In any line of work they would be slackers and complainers anyways. Regardless of the rules they will take shortcuts anytime they can and if they really hate you they WILL abuse your car. Seen it too many times, lectured too many knuckleheads. When I bring my car there I know the 10% of the techs which are good with their work, well of course they'll see my name and my bimmer and they always make sure they're on top of their game. And I stand right THERE watching their every move. And I WILL tell them how I want it done even if I sound like a dick, I don't care. My car is more important than their opinion of me and no I don't trust them with my E34. Yeah there are more expensive places to go but they're not worth my money, I shell out enough on this car as is. I wish I had the time to stand there during every job done on my car but luckily tires only take an hr, and I'll stand by. Just throw on some goggles and stand by your car or regret it!

[BigKriss]

And I WILL tell them how I want it done even if I sound like a dick, I don't care. My car is more important than their opinion of me and no I don't trust them with my E34

These guys are professionals right, they are getting paid to do a job. A mechanic is going to get pissed off if your going to tell him how to do his job. Do you like it when people watch over you and tell you how to do your job? Of course you don't, same with these guys.

[Derek A.]

Tire rack has a pretty decent list of installers for their tires. You can search them here:

http://www.tirerack.com/installer/index.jsp

These places are constantly monitored by Tire rack. A step above the Discount tire places. Yes you might pay a little more but in the end you get what you pay for.

Friend of mine needed tires on a freshly painted corvette. told him to put the car up on jackstands and take the wheels over loose. Didn'y listen.. one os the impact jockeys put a chip in a real wheel well - they just don't give a ****.

[rockyfeller]

I know, they don't like it but you have to approach it one of two ways...1) Nice guy but having a bad day: Small talk, act friendly, joke around, help him out, make it look like you're not looking over his shoulder. 2)Jerko guy who is ALWAYS having a bad day: Stick to buisness. Who cares if I'm looking over his shoulder and he dosen't like me? I want my car done right period. I am the customer. I am right....
In most any other line of work it wouldn't have to be this way. I'm putting $10k in their hands. I worked in one of these places and I know what goes on behind the scenes. I have given a lot of blah blah blah escuses to customers knowing that I'd hate to be them. I've seen them even laugh when they screw up, they really don't give a F. Nobody likes someone over their shoulder too, I understand, but hey I'm still going to do it. Luckily I know people so It's cool but if I didn't I'd be a jerk.

[BigKriss]

I know, they don't like it but you have to approach it one of two ways...1) Nice guy but having a bad day: Small talk, act friendly, joke around, help him out, make it look like you're not looking over his shoulder. 2)Jerko guy who is ALWAYS having a bad day: Stick to buisness. Who cares if I'm looking over his shoulder and he dosen't like me? I want my car done right period. I am the customer. I am right....
In most any other line of work it wouldn't have to be this way. I'm putting $10k in their hands. I worked in one of these places and I know what goes on behind the scenes. I have given a lot of blah blah blah escuses to customers knowing that I'd hate to be them. I've seen them even laugh when they screw up, they really don't give a F. Nobody likes someone over their shoulder too, I understand, but hey I'm still going to do it. Luckily I know people so It's cool but if I didn't I'd be a jerk.

I agree with you mate, wholeheartedly. Are the tyre dudes in the USA mechanics also, or do they just specialise in tyres. How much do they get paid? It seems pretty bad over there from the responses of some members. I think Australia is better, but there are some dick mechanics that think a variation of 5 grams on the wheel balance is okay.

[Bill R.]

other service industry, Low pay, dirty job , hard physical labor and you have a customer who knows better than you telling you how to do your job? If most of you act like you say you do then i'm surprised that the results turn out as well as they do....I have the option of refusing to work on a car if someones a jerk, most of these tirebusters don't have that option... Also i find it amusing that some of you are going to keep an eagle eye on these guys when they are installing your tires...Last time i looked discount tires, big O and most others have a customer lounge that you stay in and a window to watch from.. If i worked at one of those places do you think that the idea that your watching me from that window is going to make me do a better job? think again. The best way to get your tires mounted correctly or your car repaired correctly, your car painted correctly or anything from any service industry is to make a friend of the people who are doing the work. Take the time and effort to make friends with them and you'll get a much better job.. I go to a local tire shop a couple of times a year, a couple of the store employee's know me on sight.If i'm having some tires mounted and balanced on one of my own cars I'll bring them some doughnuts or something along those lines. Treat them like you would like to be treated....
Tips for the tire guys aren't an unheard of thing either, if you like the work and you expect to come back, they will remember it. Since most tire shops charge between 8 and 15 bucks for each tire mounted and balanced and installed , there's a fair amount of pressure on these guys to get the job done quickly.





These guys are professionals right, they are getting paid to do a job. A mechanic is going to get pissed off if your going to tell him how to do his job. Do you like it when people watch over you and tell you how to do your job? Of course you don't, same with these guys.

[Scott H]

Rockyfeller thinks he is the king of NYC so his attitude is self explanatory.....

Anyway.....I've always noticed some hopped up cars in the employee area of the shops I have gone to. If you bring your hoity toity BMW in, they immediately have a perception. Once you show them you are a true car guy and can appreciate their 240z or wrx or lifted truck, they take a TOTALLY different approach and begin to like working WITH you (notice I said WITH and not FOR). It's much much easier to make friends than enemies in more than one aspect of life.....There are too many REAL important things in life, why make trips to the Tire shop or Independent an exercise in frustration?

I also might add that this is the same reason the paint job and work on JR's M5 was downright fantastic after the bambi incident. He made some friends.....


Take the time and effort to make friends with them and you'll get a much better job..