Plate shy

[wingman]

Why are you guys shy about showing your plates??? Excuse my ignorance but I'd like to be able to identify you (OZ drivers) and give you a wave.

[BM-BOY]

Didn't you say you are a policeman...? :D

Heh heh...

[BigKriss]

I'm not shy, but maybe some other board members are wary that some dickhead will get into the RTA's database and steal the car. Just a thought.

[wingman]

Fair enough. But everytime I've been to stolen car job from a home they've left the keys in it and left it unsecured on the driveway. I can't see the connection between stolen cars and showing your plates on a web site! Do you know how hard it is to get into the RTA records? I can get into it for work but have to justify every entry as work related or I can be charged.

[SRR2]

In the US motor vehicle records are kept by states who have wildly differing access policies. I don't claim any expertise on what they are, just that they're all over the map. Some states, until recently, used Social Security numbers (everyone's favorite key to identity theft) as the index for drivers' licenses and vehicle registrations, and they PUBLISHED the doggone things where anyone could find them. Beyond idiotic, isn't it? Not only that, but quite a few of the DMVs have had (and probably still do) larcenous employees that conducted profitable little side businesses selling access to records. We just had a couple people arrested here in Pennsylvania for that. Thousands of records were compromised. You can't assume that simply because YOUR access is restricted that anyone else's is. Regulations such as those you operate under are effective in keeping out only the already honest people, you know, like most locks of front doors only deter those who wouldn't have broken in anyway.

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

Paranoia.

Some people also advocate you obscure the VIN tag on your car's dash board. Somebody could walk up to your car, write down the VIN and transfer title/re-register the car as theirs. Or so the paranoids think. Really, what are the chances?

[Gayle]

Ok still clueless.

Can't make the connection between showing my license plate in pictures on this forum and what someone would do with my stolen dmv records. If someone steals dmv records and they have everything they need for identity theft, how does the picture of my car help them? Do they review these forums for pictures and say "oh here's a real twit, let's get her identity out of all these records. She is wearing a tee shirt and driving a 15 year old car. She must be loaded"?

If it is car theft, if they really want a 15 year old 535 why wouldn't they just pick one off the street? Maybe if I had a new M5, it would be different.

[SRR2]

There are plenty of instances of thieves using the VIN to have a key made to facilitate steal-to-order. Of course, this requires complicit insiders with access to manufacturer's resources, but one would be pretty naive to think that there are no dishonest dealer employees in critical positions.

I wouldn't call it paranoia, given the overall ease of information theft and the widespread dissemination of personal information, that people generally want to conceal information from public view that has even a slight potential for abusive use.

Besides, it's not paranoia when they're REALLY after you! 8-)

[Phil Sanderson]

[QUOTE=SRR2]You can't assume that simply because YOUR access is restricted that anyone else's is.QUOTE]

...who the hell wants to track you down from DMV records to steal your 10 year old car?

I did a Google search on "Phil Sanderson" (my name) and got 582,000 pages. I think they are mainly for an Ice Hockey player in Canada (I'm apparently pretty good). I then did a search for "PJS002" (my car's number plate) and got 47 pages. Who gives a fxxx?

Criminals are everywhere and you can't do anything about that, but to steal from me they need to break into my computer to get my bank records, but there is nothing on my computer, or maybe the security of my bank, and then they can clean out my bank account - but there's fxxx all in there so who cares if everyone knows my number plate? (PJS 002)

Years ago when the best E34 site was "bimmer.org" now "roadfly" my tag was PhilS because I expect I didn't want to be identified, but when I came accross to "bimmer.info" at the begining of it's inception I thought "Stuff this incognito, I want these guys to know who I am".

My only regret with this identifying history is with "Tim Collins" when some idiot told him that he was from "a wealthy family" Tim decided not to identify himself anymore and re-registered here with another tag - all because of an idiot.

I am Phil Sanderson, I live at No.99A Hewitt Street, Colyton. New South Wales, Australia and if you would like to steal my identity please feel free to do so as I'm sure you can find all my usefull details on the internet. (please feel free to steal my mortgage and all my other bills {would you like my mobile phone account number} I have 2 kids - please pay for them also)

I attach a pic of both my E34's - if you would like to pay for either of them please feel free do so.

with the kindest of regards
Phil

[wingman]

Dear Phil,
I remember you well from BMW Club meetings in Sydney. Your reply is kind of what I was trying to get at. I have a 16 year old car which is insured for more than I paid for it. If someone wants to steal it they can have their go. I'm obviously well connected as I am a COP (no secrets here) and as such I know that getting my car back in good nick and having the offender punished is like winning the lotto. I've got a max no-claim bonus for life...I don't care! I can understand that some don't want to publish their plate. That is their choice and power to them. I just thought it would be nice to publish my plate to let other OZ members of this site know that I'm about and would like to say 'Hi' on the highway.

Stand by for my next post: I've just had my car stolen...

[wingman]

I've obviously opened a can of worms here.

[SRR2]

I think you fail to appreciate the dimensions of the problem of identity theft in the States. In the opinion of many, of which I'm one, anything that one can do to run under the radar should be done. Disclosing any information publicly that doesn't have to be disclosed just isn't a smart thing to do anymore.

[wingman]

Granted and accepted. Due to my employment I'm also a member of a US pistol site. This other site has made me realise what different worlds we live in. I think it's sad that you guys and gals in the states have to always have your guard up. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. My regards to you all.

[Gayle]

Many, many, many years ago, I was in an accident (not bad) that was my fault (turned in front of a land yacht I couldn't see in my karman ghia due to sun in my eyes). This was a week after I let my car insurance expire and I was driving on a driver's license from Oklahoma even though I had lived in Indiania almost a year.

I was sitting on the curb, thinking "woe with me--I am doomed". The officier who showed up said "I know you. You taught a class at the police academy". He didn't give me the ticket I deserved--because he knew me.

So all of you idiots in oz--tell wingman who you are!!!!! It is good to have the force be with you. Just don't make it difficult for him by bragging about your illegial activities on this forum. :)

[SRR2]

Thanks. Appreciated. I wish it weren't so, but we are now paying the price for rampant deregulation in the mid-80s and the Federal Government's consistent bias toward special interests to the detriment of the safety and well-being of the citizenry. Our corrupt government -- and I'm pointing the finger of blame at BOTH political parties -- has sold itself to the highest bidding lobbyist in virtually every matter that has come before it for several decades now. The Washington band of criminals are completely consumed by the gamesmanship of Politics, and have utterly forsaken the notion of public service. Not a damn one of them thinks of themselves as employees of the public. Every one of them is on the take from all manner of moneyed interests. Needless to say, the impact on the public welfare has been nearly catastrophic. Just to cite the problem we're talking about here, there are hundreds of companies that do nothing but maintain databases of information on us. Everything you can imagine, down to the most private information. Naturally, the legal system is designed (through the corrupted process of legislation for special interests) to pry information out of Joe and Jane Average at every turn, by healthcare providers, insurance companies, credit-granters, banks, DMVs, jury questionnaires, and on and on. There is NO REGULATION AT ALL in the way this information is maintained, propagated, and merged, nor any means to guarantee its accuracy, and amazingly (ha!) no way for the victim of disclosure and/or error to have recourse against these companies. The average resident of this country has a huge dossier at any of at least a half-dozen companies. Google "Choicepoint" if you'd like some reading scarier than anything Stephen King has ever written.

I'll stop with this OT rant now. I just wanted to try to impress upon you and maybe others who don't appreciate the mess we've allowed to occur here, just how serious this problem is, and why you'll never see a picture of any identifiable information about me posted anywhere on the Internet.

[wingman]

I looked at my previous reply and detected that it was slightly condescending. That was not intended. As Australia follows the States on many things (who doesn't!), It will only be a matter of time before we are in the same fix. Thanks for your interest in my post and to say the least, I'm astounded by the information you've shared with us. Keep safe and 'underneath the radar'.

[High Compression II]

SRR2--

You are quite correct in the fact that there are companies collecting and storing information and from a variety of different sources---

BMW as a company is one----

Your nice new bimmer contains huge amounts of info gathering technology--This is FACT, and NOT common knowlege The information is logged, where, when, how the vehicle is driven, (and by driving profile, who is driving) Everything the vehicle does is recorded, Places, Times Dates everything.

I have it on VERY good authority (By a guy that did some design work on these actual systems) that only around 40% of the electronics used in your new bimmer is actually used to operate the vehicle and its systems--The rest is for Telemetry/Info Gathering, which is periodically downloaded at the dealer--Where does this info go??

You tell me, Sold on to the highest bidder I guess!.

[SRR2]

Huh. What do you know. I'm not surprised, actually. I was wondering what the deal was with the new feature where BMW calls the customer to arrange for scheduled maintenance. Obviously there's data being uploaded. Could be something as simple as a message sent when the SI system figures out that it's time for an oil change, but somehow I'm sure it's NOT that simple and you're right that they're doing a hell of a lot more tracking than they tell you about. There's gold in them thar customer behavior profiles. Shoot, it's probably all being funneled to Choicepoint!

Makes you wanna pull out the GPS antenna lead when you're not using it. Which, now that I think about it, is probably a damn good idea.

I'm on very good terms with my service writer at the dealer I use -- gonna ask him what he knows about this next time I'm over there.

[Kalevera]

Many, many, many years ago, I was in an accident (not bad) that was my fault (turned in front of a land yacht I couldn't see in my karman ghia due to sun in my eyes). This was a week after I let my car insurance expire and I was driving on a driver's license from Oklahoma even though I had lived in Indiania almost a year.

I was sitting on the curb, thinking "woe with me--I am doomed". The officier who showed up said "I know you. You taught a class at the police academy". He didn't give me the ticket I deserved--because he knew me.

So all of you idiots in oz--tell wingman who you are!!!!! It is good to have the force be with you. Just don't make it difficult for him by bragging about your illegial activities on this forum. :)
Gayle, did he ask you on a date?

I mean, I've spent weekends sailing on Erie with the Geauga County common pleas/traffic judge and I doubt he'd cut me any slack if I showed up in his court (in fact, he's told me not to ever show up in his court -- ha ha)

best, whit

[Kalevera]

Heh. You should ask him what kind of information they've been able to get out of the KEY (yes, the key -- forget the rest of the car) since around '99.

There are modules in the newer cars that are actually coded to the owner; replacement requires adherence to coding procedures that maintain such knowledge.

Best, whit

[infinity5]

Hmm. I'm a little skeptical High-Compression. I imagine there are ways to get inforamtion about driving habits from the vehicle systems (when ABS has ben activated, etc etc), but somekind of satillite uploading system that tracks drivers and their habits not only sounds extremely expensive given the precieved benefit, but also illegal. They could certainly do it, but they're abslutely have to tell the customer. I don't think BMW could hide something like that for very long.

Lowell- What do you mean about the modules coded to the owner? that sounds interesting. And what can they get from the coded-keys?

[guinness]

(AP) You're driving down the road. A few miles ahead, a guy in a car talking on his cell phone slows down. Instantly, you know about it and change routes to avoid a traffic jam.

Missouri is trying to put that technology into effect over 5,500 miles of roads.

The Missouri Department of Transportation is negotiating with private contractors to monitor the movement of thousands of cell phones.

Privacy advocates are concerned about a technology that can track people. But transportation and technology leaders say the data gathered will remain anonymous.

Just food for thought...
Jim

[SRR2]

Yeah, I know about the key. He says that it's just the serial and that the data is pulled from the BMW database. I will ask about how the coding scheme works though. As long as they're not collecting behavioral information, it sounds like not a half-bad idea, making theft less profitable.

[angrypancake]

I've heard rumors (and actually written a couple papers in my freshman writing **** ass class a couple years back) about how in the Northeast they can, but haven't started yet, use your E-Z Pass to monitor times between toll booths, compare it to posted speed limits, and mail you tickets. Technolory is amazing these days. Either way the cruise control still stays between 90 and 100.

[infinity5]

I've heard rumors (and actually written a couple papers in my freshman writing **** ass class a couple years back) about how in the Northeast they can, but haven't started yet, use your E-Z Pass to monitor times between toll booths, compare it to posted speed limits, and mail you tickets. Technolory is amazing these days. Either way the cruise control still stays between 90 and 100.
Wow! that never occured to me! jesus!

[liquidtiger720]

I've heard rumors (and actually written a couple papers in my freshman writing **** ass class a couple years back) about how in the Northeast they can, but haven't started yet, use your E-Z Pass to monitor times between toll booths, compare it to posted speed limits, and mail you tickets. Technolory is amazing these days. Either way the cruise control still stays between 90 and 100.


not exactly technology...just math.

But yea...that would suck to get a ticket like that.

[SRR2]

The NJ DOT, for one, has a written policy that EZPass will never be used for enforcement. The point of EZPass is to get as many people to use it as possible so they can lay off as many toll takers as they can. Adding an enforcement component would defeat that purpose.

There are certification issues regarding clock accuracy. You can't just go assuming that the time stamps are right when you turn this into a legal matter. Timing devices used for enforcement all have certification and calilbration requirements, proof of which can be demanded by an "offender". If the EZPass people would allow their system to be used this way, they'd have to add people and technology to support subponeas for certification and calibration records.

You have an issue in identifying the driver who was "speeding". (As hard as it is for me to believe that anyone would SPEED on the NJ and PA Turnpikes!) The EZPass is tied to the car, not the driver. How could the state prove to a legal certainty that the person they decided to mail the ticket to was actually driving? Red light cameras have pix of the driver, and they've been successfully challenged.

[Nick.Hay]

If you see me, you'll notice the Tassie numberplates first, that and the fact I'll have noticed an E34, and will probably be waving already. :) :)

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

The NJ DOT, for one, has a written policy that EZPass will never be used for enforcement. The point of EZPass is to get as many people to use it as possible so they can lay off as many toll takers as they can. Adding an enforcement component would defeat that purpose.

There are certification issues regarding clock accuracy. You can't just go assuming that the time stamps are right when you turn this into a legal matter. Timing devices used for enforcement all have certification and calilbration requirements, proof of which can be demanded by an "offender". If the EZPass people would allow their system to be used this way, they'd have to add people and technology to support subponeas for certification and calibration records.

You have an issue in identifying the driver who was "speeding". (As hard as it is for me to believe that anyone would SPEED on the NJ and PA Turnpikes!) The EZPass is tied to the car, not the driver. How could the state prove to a legal certainty that the person they decided to mail the ticket to was actually driving? Red light cameras have pix of the driver, and they've been successfully challenged.

The US laws are different re: proof of offender. In Alberta (Canada) and other provinces, the radar and red light cameras take a rear picture of the car and the ticket is issued to the registered owner regardless of who may have been driving. We don't have front license plates in Alberta. I've never heard of anybody getting off one of these photo tickets.

[Qsilver7]

... I imagine there are ways to get inforamtion about driving habits from the vehicle systems (when ABS has ben activated, etc etc)...
Interesting, this topic....I had the e38 in to have its leaking power steering high pressure hose replaced ... as I was with the mechanic (I always request the same one cause he allows me to come back and we look over the car together)...and one of the other mechanics had an e39 hooked up to the DIS machine...my jaw dropped when I saw all the details they get from the DIS or MoDic units. This e39 had stored several fault codes regarding the ABS sensor. The DIS gave the time, speed, date when the fault was stored and it also told the mechanic what gear the transmission was in and whether it was upshifting/downshifting from 1-2, or from 4-3 etc. It also gave the time between the first stored code and the second time a fault was recordered and the mileage etc between the 2 times. From all the info the DIS machine presented to the mechanic...you could definitely tell how the owner was driving etc...again I was surprised at the amount of detail. If you go in telling them a slightly different story than what happened to make it look like you were'nt beating the car or driving recklessly...forget about it...because the facts they can pull from your car will tell them the real truth. Kinda like CSI (the tv show). :D

[peks]

wow. i wonder how many cars out there are that advanced.. as in american cars. theyre prob just getting to that point now i suppose. luckily our e34s were still pretty dumb..

maybe i'll take that future e39 prospect purchase with "all highway miles" to the dealership to see how it was REALLY driven ...


Interesting, this topic....I had the e38 in to have its leaking power steering high pressure hose replaced ... as I was with the mechanic (I always request the same one cause he allows me to come back and we look over the car together)...and one of the other mechanics had an e39 hooked up to the DIS machine...my jaw dropped when I saw all the details they get from the DIS or MoDic units. This e39 had stored several fault codes regarding the ABS sensor. The DIS gave the time, speed, date when the fault was stored and it also told the mechanic what gear the transmission was in and whether it was upshifting/downshifting from 1-2, or from 4-3 etc. It also gave the time between the first stored code and the second time a fault was recordered and the mileage etc between the 2 times. From all the info the DIS machine presented to the mechanic...you could definitely tell how the owner was driving etc...again I was surprised at the amount of detail. If you go in telling them a slightly different story than what happened to make it look like you were'nt beating the car or driving recklessly...forget about it...because the facts they can pull from your car will tell them the real truth. Kinda like CSI (the tv show). :D

[Traian]

Not sure who suggested the idea about checking elapsed time vs distance between toll booths to hand out speeding tickets, but they have been using this system for a while now to nick speeders in Italy. I'm not sure if it's still in effect now (and I know that the limits there are 150 km/h / ~ 95 mph now), but I remember an article in Automobile where they were driving a Diablo in Italy and had to switch off the main highways after every toll booth to avoid slowing down (they were doing a pretty constant 300 km/h btw :))