Why not to use cheap parts: FCP Groton Center Link

[Kalevera]

Along with Jeff Bidoli's car, Fritz inadvertantly became a lab rat for FCP Groton's supsension offerings. I installed the complete package before they'd even considered selling it as such on eBay -- thrust and control arms (thrust rods with 750 bushings), complete steering links, and swaybar links.

I bought all of this stuff before I knew about BMA, dealership pricing, or really anything about working on cars -- Fritz was towed to my buddy's garage, I jacked it up and looked underneath, saw a bunch of parts that looked really bad, got on Bruno's site and figured out what all of that "stuff" was, and indiscriminantly started ordering things. I was also trying to save as much money as possible, so I spent as little as possible wherever I could. Buying from FCP was a no brainer at the time, although their customer service was shitty.

Now, it's all catching up to me. I've been diagnosing a weird, off and on shimmy for a few weeks. At first, I attributed it to my tires. I now retract my comments on the 712s as being a bad tire, because I don't know if they're the cause of the problem, but they are noisy. Still, I put the car up on the rack and went over it. The idler arm had a lot of play in it and I attributed it to the idler bushing (also an FCP part) -- tightening the bolt/nut relieved the shimmy for about a week. It came back this morning, so the car went back up in the air tonight. The problem is the center link. The bushing at the idler arm/center link point exhibits tremendous play after about 10k (less than a year) of use, requiring replacement of the center link itself:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/suzpectx/centerlink.jpg

This part cost me $55 on 11/02/04. It is definitively not BMW OEM. It was manufactured by Karlyn/TRW/OCAP or similar aftermarket producer. Assuming that the part just wore out, which is entirely likely given that OCAP suspensions consistently last 15k miles, I paid .0055 dollar per mile for its use.

The more alarming concern is that WorldPac (hence, BMA) and SSF (another indy distributor) appear to offer nothing but the same quality part -- Karlyn/TRW/OCAP. Confirm that what you're buying is actually BMW OEM, not some aftermarket garbage. Look for the BMWNA/dealer sticker on it, not the worldpac white with blue stripe. (EDIT: actually, I can't remember what the worldpac sticker looks like off the top of my head -- white with blue stripe could be the dealer sticker and I'm getting it confused ATM).

I have it on good faith that the dealer OEM part lasts at least 70k+ miles. While I don't know what my cost would have been last year, it's now $75. Assuming I get the minimum of 70k miles, I'll pay around .0010 dollar per mile for its use, or perhaps enjoy an improved ratio.

So, you be the judge; Me -- I'll be using OEM lemforder.

EDIT: late breaking news -- OEM is TRW, at least the bushings are stamped as such when the part comes from the dealer. The question remains -- what's on my car?!


best, whit

[uscharalph]

Thanks Whit. I'll be using OEM Lemforder also.

[liquidtiger720]

FARK...i thought trw was okay1?!?!?! dammit.

My suspension has almost 10k miles on it...I'll have a looksy. I have been experiencing some slight vibration at speed, which may be due to a bad alignment. I thought it was my wheel weights, but now I have mor eto narrow down.

[ArtemLepilov]

umm... is someone using the FCP groton upper thrust control arms that doesnt have any problems with them? Because I have them in right now, everything else is stock. Well I have the thrust arms that are FCP groton generic ones.. And some tie rods (but those probably arent going to break)

*Whit - you seemed to have a problem with the idler arm... what about the others?

-Artem

[Kalevera]

Josh, I don't know. The point of this is that, as some people have suggested, the steel and forging work can be the same (ie - copied), but that doesn't mean that the two critical parts in the assembly -- bushings and ball joints, but only bushings in this case -- are of OEM quality.

I also noticed play in the pitman arm bushing, but can't confirm that until I pull the center link off of the car. The tie rods and idler arm appear to be fine at the moment.

best, whit

[shogun]

The ads of Karlyn are a bit misleading with the German national colors and the flag. That guy emigrated to the US in 1949
"The Art of German Engineering, Made in the USA"
BREMI parts are electric/electronic parts
http://www.karlynsti.com/


OCAP is an Italian company, also OEM supplier to:

AUTOMOTIVE APPLICATIONS

· MASERATI (Italy)
· LAMBORGHINI (Italy)
· PIAGGIO (Italy)
· SWISS LEM (Electric city car, Switzerland)
· GIBSS Technologies (Leisure time vehicles, Uk)
· FINN POWER (snowmobiles, Finland)

TRUCK AND LIGHT DUTY APPLICATIONS

· IVECO (Italy)
· CESAB (Fork lift truck, Italy)
· SNVI (Renault Industrial vehicles, France)
· ALBION AUTOMOTIVE (Pick up and van Leyland and Daf, UK)

AGRICULTURAL AND HEAVY DUTY APPLICATIONS

· DANA GROUP (Italy, USA, Brasil, India)
· MASSEY Ferguson (UK)
· CASE NEW HOLLAND GROUP (Italy, Austria, France)
· JOHN DEERE (USA)
· LANDINI (Italy)
· VOLVO Construction Equipment (Korea)
· MERLO (Italy)
· MANITOU (France)
· ZF (Germany)
· GRAZIANO Trasmissioni (Italy)

http://www.ocap.it/home.asp

TRW is also not a small supplier
http://www.trw.com/home/main/0,,,FF.html

Maybe you just were unlucky, I don't know, never tried these products, just Meyle from Germany, and they are o.k. in my opinion.

[BigKriss]

So, you be the judge; Me -- I'll be using OEM lemforder.


Thats a pretty poor effort Whitt. 10,000 miles is nothing. Just a question on the center tie rod, I thought that the TRW and Lemforder ones from BMA where the same. This is what Patrick was telling me when I got the steering links a while ago. I don't have a copy of the e-mail anymore, but it was somethign along the lines of that the Lemforder item was the same as the TRW item. The Lemforder one was around us$30 more.

[onewhippedpuppy]

That sucks, thanks for the heads up before I do mine, I had been leaning towards the FCP package. Not worth saving a few dollars if it only lasts 10k.

[genphreak]

Josh, I don't know. The point of this is that, as some people have suggested, the steel and forging work can be the same (ie - copied), but that doesn't mean that the two critical parts in the assembly -- bushings and ball joints, but only bushings in this case -- are of OEM quality.

I also noticed play in the pitman arm bushing, but can't confirm that until I pull the center link off of the car. The tie rods and idler arm appear to be fine at the moment.

best, whitQuality post Whit, this is really worth some analysis once you get the parts off the car. I hope you can get the time to post your thoughts later. Sure it could be a faulty part/bad luck, but I must say , despite what I've said about these parts in the past, I'm certainly inclined to agree on the strength of what you've put forward. It may be that the OEM bushings indeed ok, but I'm sure glad we're honing in on this. Damn I wish it were easier to spot bad joints than to pull them off and yank them round (and still be left guessing)

I just got a pair of those new $115 aluminium lower control arms and a pair of tie-rods assemblies from FCP Groton. (AutoHouseAz don't like shipping to Aus using USPS). I think they are Meyle, they 'look' ok. The rest is Hamburg Teknik and it seems OK looking, but the paint and zinc plating is definately 'thin' so I might just be painting these suckers. Can't tell any more till I get to wear them out :) as you have :(

I have to get new pitman arm bushing and centre rod too, I think I'll take you're advice and go Lemforder until we can confirm this is not caused by poor quality. Also got new bushes for the rear arms, dogbones, pitman arms and subframe mounts- none are Lemforder. I hope these aren't as shite as you seem to be sugeesting.

Its never worth doing anything twice if one can avoid it. Now you have me worried... :) Nick

[632 Regal]

Patrick also told me the Lemforder centerlinks were made by TRW. The only FCP I have is the thrust arms and control arms (replacement Bilstein too) that havnt been installed cause I blew out my shoulder.


Thats a pretty poor effort Whitt. 10,000 miles is nothing. Just a question on the center tie rod, I thought that the TRW and Lemforder ones from BMA where the same. This is what Patrick was telling me when I got the steering links a while ago. I don't have a copy of the e-mail anymore, but it was somethign along the lines of that the Lemforder item was the same as the TRW item. The Lemforder one was around us$30 more.

[50 fiver]

I purchased the thrust arms and control arms from them a couple of years ago, and I know some of and maybe all the ball joints are gone. I wish I had bit the bullet and ordered from bruno or patrick and then I would not have to replace already. I hate to talk bad about the company, but, I believe their stuff is not as good as the oem stuff.

[ryan roopnarine]

food for thought i guess

fcp groton is selling the hamburg technic parts: (2 thrust arms, 2 L control arms, 2 tierods, 2 swaybars, and an idler arm) on ebay for $235 including shipping in the us

another guy (has several packages) is selling meyle parts (same 2 tierods, 2 thrust, 2 l control, 2 sways, and an idler) for $174 plus 25 shipping, so basically $200 for all that stuff. lot of stuff for $200. i didn't think that fcp was going to be outdone for sheer amount of stuff for smallest quantity of money.

[Lennyz525i]

My FCP front end parts are failing left and right as well (after about 1 year, 8K miles, tough road condistions). I posted about a torn balljoint boot a while back. Guess I better start saving up for some new arms, and struts, :(, and springs :(, maybe a pair of dogbones :(, maybe some of those of those racing king frame inserts while I'm at it. It's gonna be driving good after that though!

[pyro]

i was thinking of getting the ftp arms and useing polyurithain and covering the bushings to protect them from the weather. just an idea.

[Kalevera]

i was thinking of getting the ftp arms and useing polyurithain and covering the bushings to protect them from the weather. just an idea.


The bushing isn't the issue -- it's a 750 bushing, OEM BMW. The concern on the thrust/control arms is that the ball joints themselves aren't of good quality. That's what this long term test will hopefully consider.

best, whit

[Robert K]

I also bought some parts from them a few years ago. Their sway bar end links are junk. I think all four boots on the front pair of links are cracked. Regardless of what markings are on their parts, I'm sure they're all cheap Asian stuff. It is worth buying OEM parts when you can afford to.At least they last 2-4 times as long.

Grace and peace,

Robert K
1991 535i

[Kalevera]

Nick, actually -- I use the factory tools, if necessary (it wasn't in the case of diagnosing the bad idler/drag link bushing), so the boots won't be damaged unless I'm really not mindful of what I'm doing.

Center link should show up on Monday, and I'll probably install it that evening, because the car has started shimmying again.

best, whit

[Mobius]

umm... is someone using the FCP groton upper thrust control arms that doesnt have any problems with them? I've got.. damn.. +30,000mi and nearly 2 years on my FCP Groton thrust arms?

Boots aren't cracked, no play in the joints, no shakes at 55mph.

And that's WITH stupid-heavy wheels and shitty roads.

[632 Regal]

why


I've got.. damn.. +30,000mi and nearly 2 years on my FCP Groton thrust arms?

Boots aren't cracked, no play in the joints, no shakes at 55mph.

And that's WITH stupid-heavy wheels and shitty roads.

[uscharalph]

I've got.. damn.. +30,000mi and nearly 2 years on my FCP Groton thrust arms?

Boots aren't cracked, no play in the joints, no shakes at 55mph.

And that's WITH stupid-heavy wheels and shitty roads.
Do you know which brand of thrust arms FCP Groton sold you?

[liquidtiger720]

I checked out my trw bushings. Still rock solid. *knocks on wood*

Bought last feb. Almost a year on em. Def. at least 10k miles.

[632 Regal]

guess the issue is with the balljoint ends...as far as I can tell from this thread.

[Kalevera]

Josh, you're correct -- the OEM/BMW part has TRW bushings in it. I'm not sure what the thing on my car has on it, but they look different (from what I can remember -- haven't pulled the part yet because I've been dealing with a %$#@in' toyota).

But yes, Patrick is right -- OEM is TRW. I am wrong.

More to come once I figure out what's currently on the car.

best, whit