Does Changing Lifetime Fluid Kill Transmissions?

[Cambridge]

I am thinking about changing the lifetime fluid in my 5hp30. It has never been changed before. Unfortunately, my 540i has 114,000 miles on it.

Everyone says that I should have started changing the fluid every 50-75,000 miles back when the car only had 50 - 75,000 miles on it (unfortunately I didn't own the car back then).

Some say it's too late to start now. (I've heard several reasons, e.g. detergent will disolve the adhesive holding the clutch friction pads or the act of draining the fluid will force junk into the valve body causing problems there, etc, etc.)

Others say, start changing it now and hope for the best - life's a risk.

Hence, my poll. I'd like to know how many who started changing their fluid after 100,000 miles had cars that survived the change for 1000 miles, 5000 miles, 10000 miles.

BTW: when I say "change" it means by whatever procedure you use to get fluid in and out of the tranny. e.g. some just replace the fluid in the pan, others let the car sit overnight or have other methods of extracting as much fluid as possible with each change. This poll is not to study the method of fluid change, rather it is to determine the fatality rate on lifetime fluid transmissions when fluid service starts late in life - by whatever form that service takes.

[632 Regal]

you need to change your poll, the proper way to change it is only drain the pan and change just what comes out and put in a new filter. This is supposed to be done every 30k. I was told this by Kirt Kohller a couple years ago. He also added to never flush it all out and change it, re adding the old crap (appx 4 qts) is ok but new is better.

[mattyb]

is it ok to just leave it in there and never change it as advised by bmw?

[632 Regal]

No. Lifetime means 100k then the car is disposable.

is it ok to just leave it in there and never change it as advised by bmw?

[laguner]

I have never done it because my car does not have it. The whole idea seems idiotic to me. I can't imagine how it could be bad to change fluids. I have read posts on both sides of the issue but never found a realistic arguement against doing it.

[Scott C]

I have never done it because my car does not have it. The whole idea seems idiotic to me. I can't imagine how it could be bad to change fluids. I have read posts on both sides of the issue but never found a realistic arguement against doing it.


Actually the discussion comes up quite frequently - if you do a search you will find some interesting reasons for how to do this or not do this... Regal summarized it well....

[laguner]

Yeah, so he is not advising against it as far as I can tell. He says you can do it but not a total flush. You really can't flush it yourself anyway. Again, a transmission is a mechanical device that requires fluids. There is no such thing as new fluid being bad, if the right type is used. The reason that some people have had failures post fluid change is probably because the grit was providing friction for worn bands in the transmission. In other words, the trannys were already shot.

[Traian]

My car has ~160k mi and it's starting to shift a little rough, it hesitates and then does and abrupt change. I don't really know what to look at and I'm a little weary of taking it to a shop and dropping mucho dinero. I think I will start changing the tranny fluid (it's never been replaced before as far as I know), maybe a couple of quarts at a time. After a few changes, I will drop the pan and change the filter. That's my plan, hope it does something. Well...something good.

[Cambridge]

Yes, from what I've heard (after reading many, many posts), it's actually fairly difficult to get all the fluid out even when when you try. Seems plenty stays in the converter and other areas.

However, some are afraid of any approach to changing fluid in 5hp30's with the so called lifetime fluid; gradually or otherwise. I hope with the poll to get some numbers from folks that have actually taken the plunge successfully.

or... maybe I get no numbers and all the discussions about what and what not to do with the so called "lifetime fluid" is mostly conjecture based on little real life experience.

[High Compression II]

I checked and topped up the fluid in my trans. I was expecting a 5HP18, but the oil-pan has the same shape as the 5HP30--Guess its one of those, I was rather rushed and didnt check the side-plate Doh!........

(Strange, All literature, suggests the 5HP18 for the 1993 525TDs diesel, but it definately didnt have that shape oil pan.......)

The fluid that came out, while it didnt smell burnt/bad, definately looked 'grubby/dirty' It didnt take much, maybe half a litre or so anyway.

The trans does some odd things, but ONLY when warm, hesitant shifts particularly from 2 to 3 and something odd from 5th to direct 'Converter' drive, Almost like its between gears, at around 55-60mph, under light throttle........
Very occasionally it may lose drive when pulling out of a roundabout, say in second, just before third comes in, as if second has released, and third is somethow late in engaging..........

Other times its performance is faultless.......

Guessing it needs a good going-over, and new fluid, valve-block clean, maybe new plastic balls and shift-valves........

BUT where do you get this sort of gear in the UK at a reasonable price, There are specialist auto-trans suppliers here in the UK, but I cant find one, I had some parts for an old Borg-Warner many years ago, but damned if I can remember who or where!..................?

Im quite happy about tearing down a valve body for cleaning/new balls etc, Just need to get the correct kit of parts, after checking that side-plate first! :p .............

Regarding the fluid changing, personally, I can see no real advantage in leaving dirty fluid in there--My idea is to get as much of the old stuff out and fresh in as possible--All that crud in there, can only add to the general wear of bushings/bearings gears, shaft seals, valves etc.etc. I do see the point where the friction surfaces could benefit from the extra friction these particles could provide, but if its gone that bad it needs overhaul anyway...........

[pyro]

well put it this way... i had a 1988 735i that never had its fluid changed untill i risked it and changed it at 275,000. yes thats two hundred and sevinty thousand miles. that car runs like a champ. didn't start it all summer got in it the other day put a batrie in and started right up!

[Cambridge]

is it ok to just leave it in there and never change it as advised by bmw?

Seems best to change it despite what BMW says. I'd say the majority of posts lean that way. There are a few that say the tranny will wear out, regardless, at 100 - 150,000 miles anyway. But again, those are few. Most are hoping to get the most mileage by having a regular program of service.

Indeed many of us, if we had purchased our cars new, would have done the "right" thing and regularly serviced our transmissions. Unfortunatly, many of us acquire our E34's later in their life after 100,000 miles or so of no service.

Hence some of us wonder, will we make matters worse and shorten tranny life by starting a fluid service program now rather than letting matters run their course?

Thus, the poll is trying to find how many went ahead and started servicing their tranny's late in life and were successful.
:)

[swenpro]

I too am interested in hearing more from those who had FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE with changing automatic transmission fluid...

I've never changed it and am approaching 100k soon! (I too experience notorious *clunk* shift btw 2nd and 3rd when tranny is warm :( )

You're stories, please! thanks

[Cambridge]

Currently showing a failure rate of 1 out of 5 - not a very large sample. So far doesn't look like many have had first-hand experience at this.

[632 Regal]

what did the old fluid look like?


well put it this way... i had a 1988 735i that never had its fluid changed untill i risked it and changed it at 275,000. yes thats two hundred and sevinty thousand miles. that car runs like a champ. didn't start it all summer got in it the other day put a batrie in and started right up!

[Maki]

I dropped the pan on my newly obtained '95 540ia 10,000 miles ago, when the car had 84k miles. The PO, a wonderful, conscientious man who replaced the Nikasil block at 62K, had had a prior service done at some point -- detectable by the aftermarket filter. Because of the non-OE filter the trans was whining a bit when cold -- a symptom that convinced me in the first place to open the transmission and have a look.

I drained the sump, installed a proper Filtran filter and upon the advice of an authorized Shell Oil distributor I refilled the trans with Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF.

About 2000 miles after the refill, I (actually my wife, to her chagrin) got a trans program error message. I drained the transmission for a second time, dropped the pan and removed and wiped down the two pulse sensors. The transmission has shifted smoothly ever since.

One thing I didn't do when I made the fluid change was to replace the old O-rings at the harness connector. I wish I'd had the replacement rings for the harness when I went into the trans last time, because I think the connector is the source of a small leak. I intend to open it up again once the weather warms up again next year, and I'll do the O-rings then.

I know I'm a heretic on the ATF, but I couldn't swallow the ominous warnings of doom from ZF/BMW, etc., when a number of folks here and on other lists were using Pennzoil and other fluids without catastrophic failure. My rationale is that ATF manufacturers are in the business of blending fluids that replace factory fills. Why would they ignore the needs of a transmission that was the predominant unit in high-end BMWs and other cars for years and years? ESPECIALLY when the same company manufactures the magical factory fluid?

I'm just too damn skeptical for my own good. I don't believe in Jesus either. Sorry.

You can get a nice little hand pump from Harbor Freight that works great to refill the transmission. It costs maybe $20.

Anyway, whatever fluid you choose to use, change the damn fluid And use a Filtran filter. Good luck!

[ArtemLepilov]

You're stories, please! thanks

I took a huge risk at getting my car without paperwork or anything - Put about as muh as I had gotten it for and now for $2400 I got a nice smooth running car. I had to replace the fluid and the seals for it too so I took it to a really great local transmission shop and they fixed it right up. Never even asked me to sign anything. Car runs beautifully now, it was sliping out of drive a bunch of times before I cleaned my ICV, so it would idle higher. Right now I believe one thing that needs to be done to it it the gear Shift lever needs to have its contacts cleaned because sometimes it would go out of D into some unknown gear - D would disappear off the LCD and the car would just act weird. Other than that and LSD needing a fill-up and a few minor things the car is great. :D

-Artem

[rockyfeller]

Good discussion, I was looking for an answer......Bought the car at 80k been hesitatant all this time and the car is near 124k now. Trans performance can be clunky/hesitant at times. I am paranoid that the tranny can quit on me someday so I think I should risk it and not listen to my indys and just change it.

[dext]

I too am interested in hearing more from those who had FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE with changing automatic transmission fluid...

I've never changed it and am approaching 100k soon! (I too experience notorious *clunk* shift btw 2nd and 3rd when tranny is warm :( )

You're stories, please! thanks
Mete, I have just had my fluid changed as I was getting the slip on 3rd, it hasn't took it away, but BMW did the change and they said at 100k it was burnt and needed doing. They have also said that the tranny will give up eventually and too expensive to repair. I would have thought a BM would do more than 150k myself

[Cambridge]

I noted the following posts

"Redline tech support recommends their D4 synthetic ATF as a replacement for the Shell 2634, without reservation. ...and the D4 is newer technology......"

"Redline DT-4 claims to be compatible with the 5HP30 Tranny. And Shell claims that Penzoil multi-vehicle ATF meets all the same standards as their LA2634. However, ZF only recognizes the Shell as being compatible with their Tranny."

"I have to say while the Redline D4 ATF offered some excellent shift characteristics (buttery smooth), there was one or two very hard shifts that spooked me into putting in Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF (MVATF) instead. According to the Pennzoil reps, the MVATF is the exact same formulation as the Shell 2634, its just a marketing game. At any rate, I had 4,000 miles on the D4 ATF before switching to the MVATF and now have a total of 12,000 miles on an alternate fluid that has not caused me one problem. When you do change your fluid, make sure you get an OEM O-ring as the aftermarket filter kits supply a slightly thinner O-ring which causes the tranny oil pump to suck air past it causing the infamous "tranny whine." The Pennzoil MVATF is about $3 a quart at Kragen's. I used 8 quarts last time."

The Nov 2005 Roundel p. 124 Tech Talk "... I have been recommending Red Line oil since I started writing for magazines in 1988. Red Line Oil is a privately-held company that runs a teeny-tiny refinery in California - no small feat, I'm sure, due to all the grass-eaters out there. Red Line doesn't compete with Big Oil, it has no designs on becomming "factory fill," so there's no need to jump through API rating hoops, and it is not sold at Wal-Mart, so it can use the best stuff - and charge for it. You can bet that if Red Line is ever taken over by Big Oil, it will be for the purpose of shutting it down or dumbing down the product - a victim of its own success, kind of like Speedvision."

Here is an interesting thread regarding the use of Penzoil multi-vehicle ATF in 5hp30's from 18 months ago Penzoil MVATF (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?p=17536)

Here is a pdf showing the Penzoil MVATF compatibility with Shell LA2634 Penzoil MVATF compatibility chart (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?p=17536)

Here's some information from a company in Australia named "Penrite" Penrite ATF (http://www.penrite.com.au/nextpage.php?navlink=db/bulletinview.php&id=35)

I'm told these folks offer the Shell LA2634 at about half BMW's price LA2634 supplier (http://www.transtarindustries.com/) You may need to use the ZF part number 0671 090 149. This is for a 20 liter container which is good for two changes.

[Tiger]

Ditto... what I have been saying for a long time...

[Cambridge]

Failure rate is now 1 out of 4 - this isn't heading in the right direction...

[Maki]

It's a shame that none of the people who experienced transmission failure after changing fluid with high miles posted their experiences in more detail. Were the cars driven extensively in city traffic? Did they tow anything? What kind of climate were they in? Was the change DiY or at a BMW dealership? I'd be interested in knowing the cars' histories leading up to tranny death.

[Cambridge]

It's a shame that none of the people who experienced transmission failure after changing fluid with high miles posted their experiences in more detail. Were the cars driven extensively in city traffic? Did they tow anything? What kind of climate were they in? Was the change DiY or at a BMW dealership? I'd be interested in knowing the cars' histories leading up to tranny death.

the reason why the tranny's died. ...maybe I need to design another poll?

[Traian]

This is a good poll. I would love to hear the details too...

[632 Regal]

I still wouldnt feel comfortable with it. It could very well be the same stuff but I highly doubt it, then again most of the time I dont trust the big industries. If I had a 5hp-30 id probably spend the cash to replace the 3-4 qts needed when changing the filter every 30k miles and be done. Kinda like the cool blue issue...thunk thunk thunk.


Ditto... what I have been saying for a long time...

[pyro]

we had a pontiac van (doomed from the begining) and we took it to gm for its 75k mile service or what ever. well gm flushed it and when we got it home it didn't go into reverse and drive sliped in seccond and fourth. it was city/highway and california climate. they said they did a pressure flush but its gm... so they use the bg flush machine and at my work the bg flush machine uses the transmition to pump the fluid no external pump

[swenpro]

Jimbo, Maki, sc156k, shogun, Tiger, western99... your names are on the poll as having changed tranny fluid and still going strong after 10k... could you tell us more if you haven't already?

[Gayle]

It's a shame that none of the people who experienced transmission failure after changing fluid with high miles posted their experiences in more detail. Were the cars driven extensively in city traffic? Did they tow anything? What kind of climate were they in? Was the change DiY or at a BMW dealership? I'd be interested in knowing the cars' histories leading up to tranny death.

So krualto, leetsauce4000, and strap, please tell us more. What's the deal?

.

[Tiger]

I did mine when I had the valve body overhauled by Kirt. I replaced about 12 or 13 quarts if fluid that I drained out with Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF. For some reason when I drained my tranny... practically all the fluid came out.

Don't compare apple to orange when people said tranny failed after flush on vehicle different than ours... tranny specific would be best. Mine is ZF 5HP30. Time of valve body overhaul is about 105,000 miles. Now 120K range.

[dext]

My car has ~160k mi and it's starting to shift a little rough, it hesitates and then does and abrupt change. I don't really know what to look at and I'm a little weary of taking it to a shop and dropping mucho dinero. I think I will start changing the tranny fluid (it's never been replaced before as far as I know), maybe a couple of quarts at a time. After a few changes, I will drop the pan and change the filter. That's my plan, hope it does something. Well...something good.
I doubt it mate, i have just had mine changed and it is still slipping in 3rd. not sure what is causing it though

[tdgard]

Bought my car at 90K. The dealer had replaced every fluid in the car before it was put on the lot--including the trans fluid. It now has over 200K with no problems.


Hmm--should think of updating my profile--will do when I return home from DC and check the 330.

[Cambridge]

Could I ask just a couple more questions?

1. What made you go for the Penzoil MVATF rather than the Shell LA2634 or RedLine D4 or another concoction?

2. What where the symptoms that let you know your valve body had given up?

[Cambridge]

My car has ~160k mi and it's starting to shift a little rough, it hesitates and then does and abrupt change. I don't really know what to look at and I'm a little weary of taking it to a shop and dropping mucho dinero. I think I will start changing the tranny fluid (it's never been replaced before as far as I know), maybe a couple of quarts at a time. After a few changes, I will drop the pan and change the filter. That's my plan, hope it does something. Well...something good.

but you may have valve body issues.

[Tiger]

1. Easily obtainable... specifited that it is compatible with LA2634... I know Shell owns Pennzoil... both semi-synthetic... so it had to be the same stuff.

2. That's easy! My car can't go forward... feel like parking brake is on... Kirt said a check ball popped through so reverse and drive is on at the same time. My tranny acted funky once in a while before this finally happened... like once stucked in third gear... feels like slipping a bit... tiny bit... All fixed after valve body rebuild... only the valve body.

After refill and rebuilt valve body... gear is positively engaged... no slipping... all the power is felt. Smooth.

[MBXB]

You can order online:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1394263

[Cambridge]

Good price! Easy to obtain!

[High Compression II]

I doubt it mate, i have just had mine changed and it is still slipping in 3rd. not sure what is causing it though


The slipping in third/fifth is a known issue with some ZF trans. the '18 and '30 suffer with this. Its the shift-valves in the valve-block--Some are plastic pistons which wear and stick/leak. especially when warm/hot A valve-block re-build will sort this out with new pistons and check-balls

In my opinion, while doing this, a good re-fill of fresh quality fluid cant hurt it.

[Cambridge]

Here's a link to the rebuild procedure: valve body rebuild (http://tridem.han-solo.net/auto/erich/valvnew.pdf)

[grave77]

mine died 3 monthes after the change, BUT ... that was cuz I was too late changing it. I changed the fluid and filter once I bought my car with 94K on the dash. drove it until 200K then replaced the fluid after 20K it died ... All in " Km " most of the guys does't recommend the change ... if u really wanna do it ... u need to run the fluid few times and flush it to make sure u drained all the fiber and Aluminum dust in the tranny.

ur car will run ok with the fluid it has at least until u get to 200K ... keep the fluid in ...

[Tiger]

200K miles on a tranny is end of life... not fluid failure.

[Cambridge]

mine died 3 monthes after the change, BUT ... that was cuz I was too late changing it. I changed the fluid and filter once I bought my car with 94K on the dash. drove it until 200K then replaced the fluid after 20K it died ... All in " Km " most of the guys does't recommend the change ... if u really wanna do it ... u need to run the fluid few times and flush it to make sure u drained all the fiber and Aluminum dust in the tranny.

ur car will run ok with the fluid it has at least until u get to 200K ... keep the fluid in ...

So, (for those of us back in the old English system), you changed the fluid at about 124,000 miles. After another 12,000 miles it died? Do you feel some junk got pulled into the valve body?

[grave77]

yeh ... lots of metal mixed with fiber. thats why I will agree on those who say that if u ride more on an old tranny u need to run the fluid few times to make sure that u flushed all the **** out of it.

[grave77]

I didnt say to run it all until 200K ... but I bought mine with 93K ..changed the fluid ... driven it untill 213K I think .. around 100K on the same fluid. but I think hot climate does matter too ...
after all it's hard to judge a tranny on a used car. might work fine and might fail even in few weeks after u buy the car.

[Cambridge]

...after a couple weeks now showing a 15 percent failure rate. ...things are looking up!
:)

[Cambridge]

Well, after two weeks the highly scientific poll :) says expect a 15 percent failure rate. Not bad, considering.

I'll go get myself some Penzoil MVATF and have a go at it. :)

[Cambridge]

finished?

[632 Regal]

done deal I guess.
finished?

[swenpro]

Cambridge- I've really appreciated this poll on changing tranny fluid. As you may know, I also have a '94 540i. It just rolled over 100k last night! So I've driven the car now for ~1500 mi and I still get awful hard shifts, 2nd to 3rd, at moderate speeds when the engine is warm. From talking to Tiger, it sounds like I probably need to have a valve body rebuild done. Whether I do that now or later, I think I definitely need to at least change the fluid and filter (maybe o-rings too) now.

As the "designer/moderator" of this thread, I'm wondering what you've decided to do on your 540i tranny. Did you go ahead and put in the Penzoil MVATF as you said? Any follow-up you can provide would be helpful

[Beez540]

I never chimed in on this since I've never had the work done myself, but... my 540 has about 239k miles on it and the previous owner supposedly had the fluid changed twice at 100k intervals. I'm fairly certain they also had the tranny worked on a few times, but what was involved I cannot be sure. It looks like they got reamed on some services for trans program issues.

I doubt this helps, but I thought I might chime in as I have a smooth running,very high mileage transmission.

[Cambridge]

Cambridge- I've really appreciated this poll on changing tranny fluid. As you may know, I also have a '94 540i. It just rolled over 100k last night! So I've driven the car now for ~1500 mi and I still get awful hard shifts, 2nd to 3rd, at moderate speeds when the engine is warm. From talking to Tiger, it sounds like I probably need to have a valve body rebuild done. Whether I do that now or later, I think I definitely need to at least change the fluid and filter (maybe o-rings too) now.

As the "designer/moderator" of this thread, I'm wondering what you've decided to do on your 540i tranny. Did you go ahead and put in the Penzoil MVATF as you said? Any follow-up you can provide would be helpful

I'm leaning toward changing the filter and o-rings along with whatever fluid happens to be in the pan. I'm leaning toward the MVATF. I haven't done the work yet, but figure I will before the winter's over.

I guess I'm just building up my courage... :) Some have claimed some pretty awful horror stories when they changed their fluid after 100,000mi (e.g. valve body fills with crud, clutch friction pad adhesive melts, etc, etc). I'm developing an opinion that these stories may be the exceptions rather than the rule. From our "very scientific" informal poll I'm seeing only a 13 percent failure rate. It seems ZF builds a pretty solid tranny that lasts with proper care.

As for the MVATF, IMHO I feel it will do as nicely as the Shell LA2634. I don't think it's that hard to make a modern semi-synthetic that will compete with the 13+ year old Shell fluid. Originally the tech data printed by Pennzoil showed it being a replacment for the Shell fluid ... and then they stopped showing the third page. I'd guess there is some game being played by the lawyers & accountants on this one. :) Nor do I expect ZF to certify any and all new fluids for a 13+ year old tranny; They've moved on to other things I'm sure.

Anyway, that's what is rolling through my brain right now. Am I crazy? I guess it all gets down to what level of risk you're willing to assume.

[632 Regal]

dude, whatever you do use the recommended fluid! If you want to play pin the tail on the yoda use whatever you want.

If you are going to do it why wouldnt you want to use what is supposed to be used since it has traveled this far?

I believe Bill r posted a chart of the correct fluids and yours is the shell fluid. The problem with other fluids is it isnt compatible with the glue that is used to hold the friction material to the steel plate resultung in a breakdown and failure.

shoot dude why not use the ATF crap at the local 7-11?

Im done with the facts, you chose your own poisen, I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

[Tiger]

Just do it... 13% failure is tiny. I am one of the, if not, the first to use Pennzoil MV ATF. No problem still and this is after 1.5 years so why are you so worried? If you use the wrong fluid or incompatilble one... it will crap your tranny right away... not after long use.

Hey I would use 7/11 crap if it was cheap! ;)

[Cambridge]

dude, whatever you do use the recommended fluid! If you want to play pin the tail on the yoda use whatever you want.

If you are going to do it why wouldnt you want to use what is supposed to be used since it has traveled this far?

I believe Bill r posted a chart of the correct fluids and yours is the shell fluid. The problem with other fluids is it isnt compatible with the glue that is used to hold the friction material to the steel plate resultung in a breakdown and failure.

shoot dude why not use the ATF crap at the local 7-11?

Im done with the facts, you chose your own poisen, I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

Yes, ZF spec's the LA2634 for my tranny. I wonder whether it's as good as the MVATF.

[grave77]

as they said you can do it ... just make sure u run the fluid few times with the pan open so you would clean the valve body before you seal the pan ... that saves the tranny from the 13% failure ...

[CheapCheap1]

Very good discussion & informative...!!!

I'll have to drain & re-fill tranny juice (& rear diff. oil) for my '95 540i/A, original Nikky block (68K miles). However, I'm leaning toward Shell-LA2634 (& Mobil1 75W-90)...yeah, it'll punch a hole in my wallet !!!

*********************
Anyway, I also need some advice...(Sorry, doesn't mean to hi-jack the thread).

My '95 540i/Auto is currently having a funny shift. When I shifted it from a regular driving (about 5-10 miles, in a "stop & go" traffic in the city) to a reverse, it's "pause" about 1-2 secs and then the tranny fully shifted into the reverse.

Well, could you pls let me know is this a symptom of a "clogged" filter or a "valve body" starts going south ???

[Cambridge]

as they said you can do it ... just make sure u run the fluid few times with the pan open so you would clean the valve body before you seal the pan ... that saves the tranny from the 13% failure ...

When you say "run the fluid a few times with the pan open..." I don't quite understand. Do you mean run the engine? When you say with the "pan open," do you mean with the pan off the tranny?

[632 Regal]

time to change the filter and fluid that comes out. If you have LSD (posi) you need the synthetic 140wt dope.

[Cambridge]

dude, whatever you do use the recommended fluid! If you want to play pin the tail on the yoda use whatever you want.

If you are going to do it why wouldnt you want to use what is supposed to be used since it has traveled this far?

I believe Bill r posted a chart of the correct fluids and yours is the shell fluid. The problem with other fluids is it isnt compatible with the glue that is used to hold the friction material to the steel plate resultung in a breakdown and failure.

shoot dude why not use the ATF crap at the local 7-11?

Im done with the facts, you chose your own poisen, I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

Some seem to be doing well with the Pennzoil MVATF. Here's an interesting thread: 20,000 miles on Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF and still ticking (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=17124)

[Cambridge]

I noted the following posts

"Redline tech support recommends their D4 synthetic ATF as a replacement for the Shell 2634, without reservation. ...and the D4 is newer technology......"

"Redline DT-4 claims to be compatible with the 5HP30 Tranny. And Shell claims that Penzoil multi-vehicle ATF meets all the same standards as their LA2634. However, ZF only recognizes the Shell as being compatible with their Tranny."

"I have to say while the Redline D4 ATF offered some excellent shift characteristics (buttery smooth), there was one or two very hard shifts that spooked me into putting in Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF (MVATF) instead. According to the Pennzoil reps, the MVATF is the exact same formulation as the Shell 2634, its just a marketing game. At any rate, I had 4,000 miles on the D4 ATF before switching to the MVATF and now have a total of 12,000 miles on an alternate fluid that has not caused me one problem. When you do change your fluid, make sure you get an OEM O-ring as the aftermarket filter kits supply a slightly thinner O-ring which causes the tranny oil pump to suck air past it causing the infamous "tranny whine." The Pennzoil MVATF is about $3 a quart at Kragen's. I used 8 quarts last time."

The Nov 2005 Roundel p. 124 Tech Talk "... I have been recommending Red Line oil since I started writing for magazines in 1988. Red Line Oil is a privately-held company that runs a teeny-tiny refinery in California - no small feat, I'm sure, due to all the grass-eaters out there. Red Line doesn't compete with Big Oil, it has no designs on becomming "factory fill," so there's no need to jump through API rating hoops, and it is not sold at Wal-Mart, so it can use the best stuff - and charge for it. You can bet that if Red Line is ever taken over by Big Oil, it will be for the purpose of shutting it down or dumbing down the product - a victim of its own success, kind of like Speedvision."

Here is an interesting thread regarding the use of Penzoil multi-vehicle ATF in 5hp30's from 18 months ago Penzoil MVATF (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?p=17536)

Here is a pdf showing the Penzoil MVATF compatibility with Shell LA2634 Penzoil MVATF compatibility chart (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?p=17536)

Here's some information from a company in Australia named "Penrite" Penrite ATF (http://www.penrite.com.au/nextpage.php?navlink=db/bulletinview.php&id=35)

I'm told these folks offer the Shell LA2634 at about half BMW's price LA2634 supplier (http://www.transtarindustries.com/) You may need to use the ZF part number 0671 090 149. This is for a 20 liter container which is good for two changes.

Here's a letter that has been posted around the web that shows Valvoline supporting MERCON V as a replacement for LA2634:

THOMAS R. SMITH
Technical Director, Valvoline Brand
June 7, 2004

To Whom It May Concern:

Valvoline has received several inquiries regarding the topic of MERCON V ATF and its use in various vehicles beyond those requiring DEXRON-III, MERCON, or MERCON V approved products. In response to these questions Valvoline has issued the following statements:

Valvoline supports the use of MERCON V ATF in a broad range of transmissions beyond those requiring DEXRON-III, MERCON, and MERCON V fluids including those where the following fluids are recommended:

o GM DEXRON II
o Allison C-4
o Chrysler ATF+3 or ATF+4 fluids
o Toyota (and Lexus) Type T, T-III or T-IV fluids
o Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II or SP-III fluids
o Hyundai
o Honda ATF-Z1 fluid (except in CVTs)
o BMW LT71141 or LA2634 fluids
o Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, or Matic-K fluids

MaxLife ATF is recommended for the new 5 and 6 speed transmissions, except the Ford 5R110, Ford 6RXX, and the Mercedes Benz W7A700 (7G-TRONIC) which all require a low viscosity Automatic Transmission Fluid.

Valvoline has conducted in-house testing to support MERCON V ATF performance in these transmissions. However, it is important to note that these vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MERCON V ATF.

Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MERCON V ATF. Use of MERCON V ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. In the unlikely event that any transmission was to be damaged as a result of the use of MERCON V ATF,
please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL.

Valvoline does not recommend MaxLife ATF for use in continuously variable transmissions (CVT’s) or in automatic transmissions where Ford Type F is recommended.


Sincerely,
Thom Smith
Technical Director
Valvoline Brand

[632 Regal]

Heres what I got regarding Shell...

Smart BMW guys,
> I would like to know where I can get the UNIQUE automatic transmission
> fluid (ATF) used by my 5HP30 transmission (in 95 540ia). The Bentley says
> Shell LA2634 is the only one to use. My local BMW dealer quoted me 5L for
> $162 ( $32/L--Yiks!). I emailed Shell to locate a dealer and they responded
> as follows;
>
> Dear Mr. ______,
> Unfortunately, the LA2634 is a unique product made by Shell for BMW in
> Germany. We do not have LA2634 in the United States nor do we have a U.S. product that is a qualified replacement for it.
> If there is a U.S. MSDS for this product, our Product Stewardship group
> would have it; you can reach them directly by telephone at 1-877-276-7285.
>
> Thank you for your inquiry and interest in Shell lubricants!
>
> Sincerely,
> Richard Bahnke
> http://www.shell-lubricants.com

so if the people that make it dont have a replacement...who the heck is Valvoline?

[swenpro]

Consider these economics: These cars of ours are getting to be 11+ years old (yes, no matter how many mods you've done lol). As it gets to be this time, it is also when a large number of people begin to encounter transmission problems. So, yes, there is a greater demand for tranny replacement fluid now than ever before.

I'm not saying that either Shell or BMW don't stand behind their products, but do you think creating a substitute fluid for these particular cars that are already 11+ years old is foremost in their minds? I do not. After all, Shell has already spent the time to engineer their LA2634, and BMW already has the LA2634 in hand to sell... or as we've seen, not to sell. Go buy a new tranny some dealers say. Regardless, neither company has pressing reasons to either come up with a new fluid, or perform the rigorous tests required to say that Shell such-and-such fluid is indeed compatible with these finicky ZF transmissions and they will stand behind it.

Thus companies like Pennzoil (with their Multi-Vehicle ATF) and Valvoline (with their MERCON V ATF) step in and create these fluids, or more likely, market them to sectors like us that want a cheaper fluid replacement. Both Pennzoil and Valvoline are well-known companies that must have serious reason to put their stamp of approval on such fluids for our cars. Of course Shell is going to tell you that they have the only correct fluid: they have no reason to locate another fluid since they've already created the LA2634, and Shell will most definitely not be directing you to a competitor.

As the consumer we are left to find our own product. Reading the e-mails that others have received from various lubricant companies and listening to the success stories of others in order to determine which fluid is the ultimate value. Go ahead and make the "if money is no object" argument about LA2634, but I don't think that holds water for most of us. No we don't want our transmissions to quit, so we do lots of research to find a fluid that won't kill the tranny... and also won't burn a hole in the wallet.

[Cambridge]

Consider these economics: These cars of ours are getting to be 11+ years old (yes, no matter how many mods you've done lol). As it gets to be this time, it is also when a large number of people begin to encounter transmission problems. So, yes, there is a greater demand for tranny replacement fluid now than ever before.

I'm not saying that either Shell or BMW don't stand behind their products, but do you think creating a substitute fluid for these particular cars that are already 11+ years old is foremost in their minds? I do not. After all, Shell has already spent the time to engineer their LA2634, and BMW already has the LA2634 in hand to sell... or as we've seen, not to sell. Go buy a new tranny some dealers say. Regardless, neither company has pressing reasons to either come up with a new fluid, or perform the rigorous tests required to say that Shell such-and-such fluid is indeed compatible with these finicky ZF transmissions and they will stand behind it.

Thus companies like Pennzoil (with their Multi-Vehicle ATF) and Valvoline (with their MERCON V ATF) step in and create these fluids, or more likely, market them to sectors like us that want a cheaper fluid replacement. Both Pennzoil and Valvoline are well-known companies that must have serious reason to put their stamp of approval on such fluids for our cars. Of course Shell is going to tell you that they have the only correct fluid: they have no reason to locate another fluid since they've already created the LA2634, and Shell will most definitely not be directing you to a competitor.

As the consumer we are left to find our own product. Reading the e-mails that others have received from various lubricant companies and listening to the success stories of others in order to determine which fluid is the ultimate value. Go ahead and make the "if money is no object" argument about LA2634, but I don't think that holds water for most of us. No we don't want our transmissions to quit, so we do lots of research to find a fluid that won't kill the tranny... and also won't burn a hole in the wallet.

I'd guess that since not many of us are industrial petro chemists these ATF formulations will remain a black art. Many like the comfort of ZF/BMW blessed Shell LA2634 first seen in 1992. Others feel the industry now has suitable alternatives and are willing to take the risk. I'm beginning to lean toward the later.

As I stumble accross interesting items I like to keep adding them to this thread. For example, I understand VW/Audi also sells LA2634. I'm trying to track down part numbers and prices to add to this thread for folks who will only settle for only Shell LA2634. :)

[Cambridge]

Most 5HP30's in 540's are spec'd by BMW and ZF to use Shell LA2634 ATF fluid.

However, 5HP30's installed in other BMW's (E31's, E38's and early E39's) are spec'd by BMW and ZF to use Esso LT71141 ATF fluid. Another rare expensive fluid. :)

Esso LT71141 can be purchased from BMW in 20 liter quantities (BMW 83 22 9 407 807), or it can be purchased in smaller quantities from VW/Audi. Part numbers: G052162A1 or G052162A2.

...I wonder if VW/Audi has the Shell LA2634 also.

[zhandax]

Has anyone read the documentation from ZF on the 5HP30? It seems this tranny was also used on Aston Martin, Bentley, and Rolls Royce. Might explain the ZF legal horsh:t about Penzoil MVATF. Face it, 2-3 times the liability from people with really good lawyers in case of a mis-step.

I now think I will put Penzoil in mine. Still trying to decide if it is time for the valve body rebuild. I DO have a rough 3-4 shift sometimes. And some really squirly stuff when the car is started cold below freezing (one time a slip, several times a vibration in third until it warms up, etc.). My tech drove the car and said I do not have the teflon ball problem though. The car was already warm, so he did not get to feel the freezing weather issue.

[632 Regal]

Thud, Thud, Thud
Has anyone read the documentation from ZF on the 5HP30? It seems this tranny was also used on Aston Martin, Bentley, and Rolls Royce. Might explain the ZF legal horsh:t about Penzoil MVATF. Face it, 2-3 times the liability from people with really good lawyers in case of a mis-step.

I now think I will put Penzoil in mine. Still trying to decide if it is time for the valve body rebuild. I DO have a rough 3-4 shift sometimes. And some really squirly stuff when the car is started cold below freezing (one time a slip, several times a vibration in third until it warms up, etc.). My tech drove the car and said I do not have the teflon ball problem though. The car was already warm, so he did not get to feel the freezing weather issue.

[zhandax]

Here is an interesting snippet I got off the Penrite web site.

Although this product uses the correct base oil combination and has the correct friction requirements for these transmissions we are unable to get a formal approval as ZF no longer give formal approvals against this “Sheet” number (TE-ML 11).
I guess that is why only LA 2634 is approved. ZF stopped giving approvals.

[Cambridge]

Here is an interesting snippet I got off the Penrite web site.

I guess that is why only LA 2634 is approved. ZF stopped giving approvals.

There have been a few items on the web trumpeting the close relationship between ZF and the Shell Lubricants group. So, ZF's reluctance to certify another fluid may be a combination of 1) preserving their business relationship/agreements with Shell and 2) it no longer being cost effective for ZF to bother testing anymore.

Indeed, it would be hard to believe that after more than 10 years there aren't other fluids up to the LA 2634 technology.

[632 Regal]

Interesting point right here...
Both Pennzoil and Valvoline are well-known companies that must have serious reason to put their stamp of approval on such fluids for our cars.
Say you use their fluid and your trans fails, how can you claim that their fluid killed the trans? You cant! you have 100+k miles on it, without a class action lawsuit they have nothing to fear and with the age of our cars BMW isnt going to stang behing you either. I feel if you truely want to perpetuate your BMW for the longest time possible you will use the correct fluid recommended along with cool blue. The most documented changes in any fluid is in synthetic oil which has become better and safe to use since it doesnt have to contend with clutch glue materials.

[zhandax]

Here is something else to throw in the mix. I called the Shell tech line and asked some pointed questions about MVATF's compatibility with the ZF clutch pad glue. The guy wanted to talk to one of the engineers and said he would call me back. He did today, and told me that they made the base oil, but contracted out the additives (friction modifiers) to Esso.

Since I have not had time to either work on mine nor take it in, I am still waffling on which fluid to use. However, if both Shell and Esso participated in formulating the MVATF, I have to think they know what it takes to be compatible with a 5HP30.

Can anyone find any info on what type glue is used on the clutches ZF uses? Any idea who they buy them from or if they make their own?

[Gearhead]

Bump.

This is fast coming to the top of my task list. Looking for any more updates. Zhandax and Cambridge, what did you finally choose? Results? Feedback?


Thanks!

[Rustam]

I took a huge risk at getting my car without paperwork or anything - Put about as muh as I had gotten it for and now for $2400 I got a nice smooth running car. I had to replace the fluid and the seals for it too so I took it to a really great local transmission shop and they fixed it right up. Never even asked me to sign anything. Car runs beautifully now, it was sliping out of drive a bunch of times before I cleaned my ICV, so it would idle higher. Right now I believe one thing that needs to be done to it it the gear Shift lever needs to have its contacts cleaned because sometimes it would go out of D into some unknown gear - D would disappear off the LCD and the car would just act weird. Other than that and LSD needing a fill-up and a few minor things the car is great. :D

-Artem

Have not seen you for a while.. Did you manage to resolve cyl 4 ignintion issue?

[zhandax]

I used the MVATF and had a whine from the transmission when cold. Turns out it was caused by the aftermarket O-ring for the filter which is a smaller diameter. I got another filter and O-ring from the dealer and the whine went away. My tech thought I was nuts until he heard the difference. Changing fluid and filter twice in a few weeks probably changed most of the fluid. ~4000 miles into it I am pleased.

[pingu]

My 5HP30 had the whining noise when cold and the seal for the shift selector shaft leaked. I had the filter, pan fluid and seal changed at 130,000 miles. I asked my indy to use genuine Shell fluid and I think that they did - it cost £58 for 5 litres (I double checked by calling the local BMW dealer who was prepared to sell it by the litre for about £10/litre). Now nearly 141,000 miles, and a year later, and everything is still working fine. The whine is reduced but still there on a cold day - I wonder whether the indy used an OEM filter or set the ATM fluid level correctly. No real problems with shifting - I get an occasional hard down shift at about 60mph, but this only happens two or three times a year.

[swenpro]

Bump.

This is fast coming to the top of my task list. Looking for any more updates. Zhandax and Cambridge, what did you finally choose? Results? Feedback?


Thanks!

Likewise for me, my 540i tranny is becoming high priority now that the weather is warm... I may be looking at a valve body replacement soon, but regardless I will have to change/add fluid.

This thread has had a great discussion and poll, and I'd like to find conclusive answers too...

[632 Regal]

4000 miles is in no way a conclusive test on sub standard fluid! Maybe 40k or so.


I used the MVATF and had a whine from the transmission when cold. Turns out it was caused by the aftermarket O-ring for the filter which is a smaller diameter. I got another filter and O-ring from the dealer and the whine went away. My tech thought I was nuts until he heard the difference. Changing fluid and filter twice in a few weeks probably changed most of the fluid. ~4000 miles into it I am pleased.

[632 Regal]

interesting...nikasilholics last post was bragging about the MVATF fluid and he is gone. It would be interesting looking into who used the geeneric fluid and has since disapeered.

[ThoreauHD]

I changed mine as well. The dealer was reticent about doing it, but I forced him to. The engine has 83K miles, but it's a replacement engine when BMW did the alusil switch. So I have no idea how many miles are on the transmission itself. In any case, they changed it and found that the fluid had evaporated/deaminated for the most part. It was shifting very rough but now it slides through gears like a champ.

The weather that the car was in was upstate NY- very cold. Currently it's in a moderate environment of 70 degrees F or so. Central Virginia. I have put a little of 1000 miles on it and it's fine.

Lifetime for BMW has changed.. from forever to 80-100K miles. I changed it at 80K with the new engine, but it could mean 180K- don't know. I would prefer to risk blowing away my transmission rather than waiting for it to slowly seize up. I want this car to last, so there really was no other option for me. Everything degrades, and I wanted to bring it to mint condition nuts to bolts.

I have had no adverse affects due to the fluid change.

[632 Regal]

the correct fluid or the 7-11 stuff?

[zhandax]

4000 miles is in no way a conclusive test on sub standard fluid! Maybe 40k or so.
I typed this in a hurry out the door to work. But he did ask what I used and I added the ~4000 so he would not think this was an exhaustive test. It does shift better, though.

[632 Regal]

true enough.
I typed this in a hurry out the door to work. But he did ask what I used and I added the ~4000 so he would not think this was an exhaustive test. It does shift better, though.

[Traian]

I´ll post here, but I don´t really have anything to contribute it is more of an open question. I had a whine from my auto gearbox on the 1-2 shift and slightly on the 2-3 when cold, that was almost directly related to temperature. I had the oil and filter changed (Shell oil, filter and gasket from the dealership) at a BMW indy here in Toronto ($420
for 6 litres of oil, filter, gasket, 1hr labour and tax eek) with mixed results. On cold startup the noise is greatly reduced, and the 1-2 shifts are now hardly audible even right after startup. Unfortunately the whine is still there even through the higher gears now, and what worries me most, it goes on for a good 20-25 min of driving now, whereas before it would go away after 2-3.

Everything was replaced with factory stuff, which is why I am confused. The shop did say the fluid came out somewhat burnt and very dirty when I asked, so I am now afraid I might have some terminal problem. But on the receipt the wrong transmission is listed under the filter type (the 360 instead of the 560, I don´t remember exactly and I don´t have the receipt here). I don´t have access to my car now until September, but it´s something I´ll have to deal with then and I don´t really know where to start. And I already have quite a bit of money into it by my standards, which is not nice. Ah, one final thing, I probably only have about 300km on the car since the change (total mileage about 270 000 km), and have not reset the computers.

[Nikasilaholic]

true enough.

I now have 133,000 miles on my 5HP30 and no issues. As some of you have researched my previous posts, the Pennzoil MVATF looks like a good candidate for the Shell LA2634 replacement. I've got 21,000 miles on the MVATF (111K-133K) and the transmission shifts the same as it did at 111K.

As I've posted before, I wonder if a lot of the hesitation on using alternative fluids is due to pride issues. Some people can't get over the fact that they overpaid for something and will rigorously defend their decision just to save face. I admit, I overpaid for a lot of things in life. There, I said it. Lets move on and learn from the mistake.

If the chemical (ATF, motor oil, coolant, whatever) is compatible and endorsed by the manufacturer's, what's the issue? If someone tells you that you can only use Mobil 1 5W30 oil in your car otherwise your engine will fail, would you believe them? As we all know the specs between Mobil, Amsoil, Valvoline, Shell, Pennzoil and others are different (i.e. ash content), but you wouldn't hesitate putting in a quart of any synthetic 5W30 oil in your car if it needed it.

How many miles do I have to have on an alternate fluid before anyone believes me? Oh well, I'll be changing out my wife's E38 750iL 5HP30 fluid in the next couple of weeks. The trans calls for Esso fluid but, being the red-headed stepchild that I am, I'll probably spring for the Mercon V or Pennzoil MVATF fluid. The 750 has the original fluid and 167,000 miles. If that doesn't convince someone, I don't know what will.

[Maki]

I've got 16,000 miles on MVATF. The only glitch I've experienced is a leak at the harness connector, which may have been leaking the factory fluid as well. Last month I reopened the pan, replaced the two O-rings on the connector plug (shoulda done that from the get-go) and refilled the transmission with fresh fluid. The inside of the pan looked clean and free of sediment with only a little film of metal on the magnet that was likely residual from the original fluid. That would be about 15,000 miles after the initial change.

[Cambridge]

Bump.

This is fast coming to the top of my task list. Looking for any more updates. Zhandax and Cambridge, what did you finally choose? Results? Feedback?


Thanks!

Sorry, I haven't been frequenting the forum since my 540 was totaled. Never did get to change the tranny fluid. I sure miss her. :(
I hope to purchase another sometime. For now, I'm keeping myself occupied restoring a 1987 735i L7 (E23).

[Kai@e34.de]

i don't have read all post yet.
it's not a risk to change the fluid, it's strongly recommended! but please note that the 5HP30 (was installed in the 540i only) should never (NEVER!) get usual Dexron-II or III! it needs Shell LA 2634 or similar, but you will definately kill the 5HP30 with the Dexron II/III.

[zhandax]

What is considered similar in Germany?

[Kai@e34.de]

the 5HP30 is designed to use the Shell LA 2634 or Esso LT 71141, depends on model year and serial number.
i'd take a look on the type number plate on the tranny and ask ZF directly (with the serial number of your 5HP30) which oil has to be filled in. please make sure, that the oil change will be done accurately (see TIS). especially the 5HP30 excuses no mistakes at all.

there's also a very interesting thread in the e34.de board about the 5HP30: http://forum.e34.de/thread.php?threadid=40032
to see the pictures, you can login as "Gastzugang" (user) and "gast" (password) or register yourself.

[swenpro]

Cambridge! I had no idea your car was totalled :-( I was always kind of wondering what you would decide to do with the fluids and all, and this thread in specific has been such a great, directed discussion about the subject.

So, now I'm really doin it... after putting up with tranny whine and hard kicks for almost a year, I've taking out the valve body, had Kirt Koeller rebuild it, and it will arrive again tomorrow. I will be putting the correct Filtran filter in, and I've already bought 13 quarts of Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF. Here goes nothing!

[fkong777]

I just email Royal Purple in regards to Shell LA 2634 and Royal Purple MAX ATF for a 95 540i AT.

Reply was.

The Shell LA 2634 atf is a hydrotreated mineral oil and is fully compatible with the RP MaxATF synthetic hydrocarbon based product.

I show that this could have a ZF 5HJP-30 transmission or a A5S 560Z transmission with both using a Dexron type atf fluid.....5.8 quarts service fill and 13.9 quarts total fill.

David C...
Tech Services Manager
Royal Purple Ltd
1 Royal Purple Lane
Porter, TX 77365

[mattyb]

while this is up i might mention that when this waas current i said that mine had never been changed and all was sweet. well let me now tell you that at about 250,000ks it was definately not. I am now converted to the "change it every 30000k" side of the fence after $3grand and a fingered tranny. albeit with a beuatiful new tranny though and a chance to start from scratch. all the best to every one who was in the "dont touch it" team! I realised when I touched wood when i posted originally it was an Ikea laminated look a like timber sufrace. Damn!!! and damn again!!!

[zhandax]

swenpro, did Kirt's rebuild get rid of the hard kicks? I only feel mine between 3rd and 4th when the car is cold but it annoys me greatly.

[Elekta]

Did not vote because no catagory fits my issue. Bought tourer with 58k miles, and changed the fluid every year since owned (3+ yrs now).

tranny needs valve body replacement due to the changes is my guess. I had to change the fluid as I was getting a bad clunk, and that was solved by the change. Since then I do have a shifting miss and bang when coasting and reaccellerating which I am told is the valve body not working properly. Though with left foot braking and cognition of this issue, I have not toasted my tranny, but I am positive my wife could toast it with one outing.

I have another issue of the d light going out on the display and only staying on if I pull back on the shifter. What's this all about and do I need a severe cleaning of everything under the shifter?

I think I am going to buy a rebuilt valve body from Kirt and ship him back the old one after my indy makes the switch. Anyone priced this option? What' the all in including shipping?

[632 Regal]

the valve body issue is with the 5hp30 (540) transmission. my US 530 uses a 5hp18.

[Elekta]

I know we are the 5hp18, but does that mean we don't need valve body replacements too?

[swenpro]

swenpro, did Kirt's rebuild get rid of the hard kicks? I only feel mine between 3rd and 4th when the car is cold but it annoys me greatly.

Well, I've been laying low about this issue for a while now...

to answer your question. No. I've been quite dissapointed to find out that after putting my car up for a week in my garage to have the valve body sent out, rebuilt, and reinstalled, as well as having installed a new filtran filter and poured in 13 quarts of Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF (it took 12.5), the shifting is as bad as ever.

Now, I in no way want to give Kirt Koeller, Pennzoil, or any of the above a bad rap. Kirt is amazingly helpful, and he has been guiding me through this process over the phone. He first had me try a few "computer resets" (known on here as the "shogun reset"), then I did the valve body work as outlined above (costed me ~$400 and I did the work myself), and finally he sent me a new "transmission control module" (would be $100 if I bought it), because sometimes those chips are burnt, but alas that fixed nothing either so I sent it back.

So: My auto tranny is still performing abysmally, especially when warm--a lagged shift into 2nd gear, a VERY hard clunk into 3rd gear, and--more recently--small clunks when I begin coasting or accelerating between about 40 and 60 mph. Oh, and the delayed engagement of reverse is back! I'm beginning to wonder if something's wrong with the rebuilt valve body I've installed. Again, maybe not.

From my last conversation with Kirt, it sounded like the worst-cased scenario--don't quote me on this cuz I didn't understand it very well--was to go in and change the clutch packs (?) Anways, it sounded like quite an involved project, and doing the valve body with detailed lego-building-like instructions found online was enough for me, thanks.

Now you've had an update. My car still drives, and it actually shifts fine in sport mode. So I cope by driving in sport mode till about 50mph, then put it into Drive. It's not economical and it's highly annoying, but it's what I must do to prevent big clunking. I will let you know if I ever get this resolved. :(

[zhandax]

Does sport mode use different clutch packs than economy?

[Elekta]

I'm thinking I will get a used tranny here to drive around in and then send mine off to kirt for a rebuild, then sell the used one, or the rebuilt one, if it turns out the used one is fine.

Those aamco guys were pretty adamant about it being pretty impossible to only fix one thing on a tired tranny just to save money, because eventually you will have to totally rebuild it. That said, trust is truly a four letter word in the tranny rebuild business.

[grave77]

sometimes the used trannies work good and you don't need to rebuild yours, after all, a bad valve body will make a rebuilt tranny perform bad. I have rebuilt my 850i tranny and they were not able to do anything more than cleaning the valve body of the tranny and it still changes the speeds roughly. so I'm planning on getting a used tranny with a warranty, change the ATF then drive it.

[swenpro]

Does sport mode use different clutch packs than economy?

No, I believe it's just that the 5HP30 shifts best at high revs.

[Cambridge]

Did you find the reason for the balky tranny? (Or are you planning a complete rebuild?)

[swenpro]

I'm planning to make a run up to Kirt's place and have him rebuild my whole tranny--R&R in one day--sometime in the next few months. Otherwise I'm keeping my eye open for something with a manual transmission.

[Robert K]

I have a 1991 535i with 140,000 miles. At least about every 5,000 miles, I pull the plug on the auto trans pan, drain approx. 3 qts. of old fluid and refill with 3 qts. of new. About a year ago, I repeated this process 3 times in a week's time to put as much new fluid as possible in the trans. Mine keeps going strong and shifting fine. I do get the occassional "trans program" message. But I am almost certain it's an electrical glitch since the trans operates fine about 99% of the time.

I'll admit that I do not believe in lifetime fluid, regardless of what BMW says. In their service schedules, they want you to change engine oil, differential oil, brake fluid and coolant at regular intervals. Why in the world would the trans be any different? My dad was raised on a farm. One of the things he said my grandpa used to say was that lubrication was cheaper than parts. I've lived by that since the day I heard it.

One other thing I will say about changing trans fluid is that I think it is worth doing at least every 30,000-50,000 miles JUST to change the filter. Trans fluid gets really slimey after a while. And the filter picks up a film of that stuff on the screen. If it gets really bad, your trans might have difficulty pulling a sufficient volume of fluid through it, which I'm sure could spell doom.

The bottom line...regularly scheduled maintenance and new fluids WILL extend the life of your car. As the saying goes, you can pay a little now, or a lot later. Your choice.

Grace and peace,

Robert K
1991 535i