Italian tune-up coused over heating, Please help..

[Akhil]

Hi All,

I have always learnt low of thing about my BMW and really appreciate all BMW GURUs hear. I don't know how to write, may be I did this stupid thing today on my 92 525i. I read about Italian tune-up. So I though I would try that. I bought Techron and put into tank, then I drove few miles and got the engine on normal operating temp., Then I park my car and gas it up to 5500 RPM for about a min or 2 max, then I got DING sound and Coolant temp message on dash. I looked at temp gauge, It was about to touch RED mark on it. That scared me like hell. I immediatly stopped the engine and check on floor under the engine, I show lot of oil. I did NOT have over heating problem or any oil leak problem before. I drive most of the time in bad Houston traffic and my RPM never goes above 3000 RPm in normal driving conditions. After this, I let the car cool off up to the normal operating temp. and then restarted it, It started fine, idle fine, but temp gauge started going up and up. So now, I ended up with over heating problem. I don't know what to do next. I am planning to flush and refill coolant tomorrow, but now sure that would fix the problem. I would greatly appreciate if some one can help me or guide me to right direction of troubleshooting.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.
Akhil

[misfortune]

Honestly a flush and refill might fix your problem. Read up on the bleeding procedure from a good car manual (check www.bmwe34.net )
The extra strain you put on the engine probably exposed a preexisiting condition. Nothing wrong with a good italian tuneup!!

Hi All,

I have always learnt low of thing about my BMW and really appreciate all BMW GURUs hear. I don't know how to write, may be I did this stupid thing today on my 92 525i. I read about Italian tune-up. So I though I would try that. I bought Techron and put into tank, then I drove few miles and got the engine on normal operating temp., Then I park my car and gas it up to 5500 RPM for about a min or 2 max, then I got DING sound and Coolant temp message on dash. I looked at temp gauge, It was about to touch RED mark on it. That scared me like hell. I immediatly stopped the engine and check on floor under the engine, I show lot of oil. I did NOT have over heating problem or any oil leak problem before. I drive most of the time in bad Houston traffic and my RPM never goes above 3000 RPm in normal driving conditions. After this, I let the car cool off up to the normal operating temp. and then restarted it, It started fine, idle fine, but temp gauge started going up and up. So now, I ended up with over heating problem. I don't know what to do next. I am planning to flush and refill coolant tomorrow, but now sure that would fix the problem. I would greatly appreciate if some one can help me or guide me to right direction of troubleshooting.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.
Akhil

[Akhil]

Thanks for quick reply misfortune,

I am hoping that flush and refill, might fix the over heating problem, but what should I conclude about lot of oil spil while engine running on 5500 RPM? Am I going to have some big problem of leak now. I am think about all hte gasket, since it old and has never gone to that high temp. range at least during my 2 and half year of ownership. are they gone? I am worried about it.

Thanks

Best Regards,
Akhil

[winfred]

a italian tune up is usually done by flogging the car down the road with a load on the motor and high rpm not holding it near the rev limmiter while parked, that is just hard on the motor without actually moving that much air through the cylinders and raising the combustion pressure and temp like actual hard use would do. the oil hopefully got burped out of the usually rotted off crankcase vent line that goes from the valve cover to the intake boot, if not you may have a problem. cooling could be several things, you may have a plastic impeller water pump and it gave it up under the stress and cracked and is spinning on the shaft, thermostat could of gave it up i have been getting a **** load of cars in with busted thermostats lately, or your fan clutch could be almost dead and it couldn't keep up with the heat spike produced by the motor without some airflow to get it started (besides the clutch is not normally capable of spinning at those speeds, they usually dissengauge at 2000-2500 rpm) and it just got too hot

[Akhil]

Thanks a lot for your quick reply winfred,

So now what would you recommend me? Can you please list me the things to check starting from easier and going to harder ones.?

Best Regards,
Akhil

[uscharalph]

Hi All,

I have always learnt low of thing about my BMW and really appreciate all BMW GURUs hear. I don't know how to write, may be I did this stupid thing today on my 92 525i. I read about Italian tune-up. So I though I would try that. I bought Techron and put into tank, then I drove few miles and got the engine on normal operating temp., Then I park my car and gas it up to 5500 RPM for about a min or 2 max, then I got DING sound and Coolant temp message on dash. I looked at temp gauge, It was about to touch RED mark on it. That scared me like hell. I immediatly stopped the engine and check on floor under the engine, I show lot of oil. I did NOT have over heating problem or any oil leak problem before. I drive most of the time in bad Houston traffic and my RPM never goes above 3000 RPm in normal driving conditions. After this, I let the car cool off up to the normal operating temp. and then restarted it, It started fine, idle fine, but temp gauge started going up and up. So now, I ended up with over heating problem. I don't know what to do next. I am planning to flush and refill coolant tomorrow, but now sure that would fix the problem. I would greatly appreciate if some one can help me or guide me to right direction of troubleshooting.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.
Akhil
I hope you didn't do that in Park, not good for the transmission.

[632 Regal]

"park" my ass... this poor dude revved the thing with no load, I dont even want to mention it but thing something went awry something more to the point of pitching a rod. Man.... I wish he would have asked a question before revving this thing in neutral. I feel he has wrote correctly by saying he thinks he did something stupid. I really hope I'm reading it all wrong man.



I hope you didn't do that in Park, not good for the transmission.

[Akhil]

I wish I wouldn't have done it, but unfortunatly I did it and that too in PARK. Do you think I screwed my transmission too?

[winfred]

i don't think the gm tranny minds it, not like the old zf it'd be good and roasted after a couple minutes

[uscharalph]

i don't think the gm tranny minds it, not like the old zf it'd be good and roasted after a couple minutes
Good to know.

[632 Regal]

your trans is probably Ok as Winfred says, get this thing up on ramps and look for where the oil is comming from, any loud clunking noises or anything?


I wish I wouldn't have done it, but unfortunatly I did it and that too in PARK. Do you think I screwed my transmission too?

[Akhil]

Thanks for you reply Guys,

I understood I did something horribly wrong which I shouldn't have done. Now what do you guys suggest me NOW?

[632 Regal]

find out where the oil is coming from and tell us, then we can help you farther.

Thanks for you reply Guys,

I understood I did something horribly wrong which I shouldn't have done. Now what do you guys suggest me NOW?

[Akhil]

Tomorrow I am going to do coolant flush and refill. I am going to check for oil leak spot at the same time and will let you guys know how it goes. But if you guys have any suggestion about OVER HEATING problem, which started after Italian tune-up, please let me know. Like what are the things I should look and check to find the problem?

Thanks

Best Regards
Akhil

[632 Regal]

youmy friend, are in new territory, im thinking bad things and dont think simply that you somehow introduced air into the syste,. Dony bother with expensive fluids, try just with water and see if you can fix the heatng problem.


Tomorrow I am going to do coolant flush and refill. I am going to check for oil leak spot at the same time and will let you guys know how it goes. But if you guys have any suggestion about OVER HEATING problem, which started after Italian tune-up, please let me know. Like what are the things I should look and check to find the problem?

Thanks

Best Regards
Akhil

[shogun]

Akhil,
Winfred said it all what could cause this. Plastic impeller, thermostat etc.
So just check that item by item.

[Akhil]

Thanks a lot for all you guys suggestions and recommendation.

As Winfred said, I am going to check following things in order and have question about each of them

1# Fan clutch, but I think its working, because fan was running at really very high speed as it should because of high temp.

Question: Is there specific test DYI test for it?

2# Coolant pump.

Question : Is there any way to check its functionality without taking it out from engine block? If now, then after taking it out what should I check and how to make sure it functionality?

3# Thermostat.

Question : Do I have to take it out to test it? If yes, then what should I check/test in it? Is there any specific test for it?


Thanks a lot and best regards

Akhil

[winfred]

Thanks a lot for all you guys suggestions and recommendation.

As Winfred said, I am going to check following things in order and have question about each of them

1# Fan clutch, but I think its working, because fan was running at really very high speed as it should because of high temp.

Question: Is there specific test DYI test for it?

2# Coolant pump.

Question : Is there any way to check its functionality without taking it out from engine block? If now, then after taking it out what should I check and how to make sure it functionality?

3# Thermostat.

Question : Do I have to take it out to test it? If yes, then what should I check/test in it? Is there any specific test for it?


Thanks a lot and best regards

Akhil

it sounds like the fan clutch works, it's hard to diagnose the water pump without removing it, it may be possible to remove the thermostat and poke a wire through the hole down to the pump and maybe see if you can stop the impeller as you turn the pump by hand, thermostat id just replace it they are cheep and hard to properly test, you can put it in a pot of water and boil it and see if it opens but that doesn't allways catch a bad unit

[632 Regal]

Akhil, read up on the proper bleeding procedure to get the air out of the cooling system when your done.

[winfred]

m50 525s are easy, just drill a couple mm hole in the thermostat just to the inside of the area for the o-ring and put it at 12:00, fill and start the motor give it a low rev and look for coolent from the pisser hole in the neck, when you feel the top hose get warm top up if needed and it's done


Akhil, read up on the proper bleeding procedure to get the air out of the cooling system when your done.

[632 Regal]

I dont think this dude needs too many more complications.

[Akhil]

Hi Guys,

I am back, could not finish the job because today is Sunday and dealer is closed. I could not find parts in AutoZone or O’Reilly. But I can with some finding and few more questions.

Findings

1# Coolant came out with draining the system was oil-ish when I took on my finger. Not sure it was oil or just dirt and other contaminations made coolant like slippery like oil.

2# Winfred said about the plastic impeller, my car had a plastic impeller and it got striped out with its axel. I believe plastic expand more than metal given the same degree of temp. rise and that made impeller expand and get stuck in the housing with sudden rise or temp.

3 # I also took out thermostat, and as Winfred said, there is no conclusive test for thermostat, I am going to replace that too.

4# Fan clutch seem to be working.

Now I questions are :

1# As Bent’s Manual say, “Do not install coolant pump with plastic impeller, install one the metal impeller. The one I took out seem like OEM pump and if I buy it from dealer, I am going to get one of the same one. Where would I find the pump with metal impeller?

2 # Do I have risk or some plastic debris from broken impeller falling into cooling system? If yes, is there any fix for that? If no fix, what could be the consequences of running the engine like that?

3 # I made the list of the parts I am going to buy to install new thermostat and new pump. Here is the list, Please advice me if I am missing some thing like any realer, gasket or any O-ring?
I got them from here http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD63&mospid=47404&btnr=11_1503&hg=11&fg=35

1 – Thermostat ( # 5 in Pic.)
2 – Thermostat housing gasket( # 7 in Pic)
3 – Thermostat O-Ring ( # 6 in Pic.)
4 – Coolant pump ( # 1 in Pic.)
5 – Coolant pump O-Ring ( # 2 in Pic.)

Question : What is # 8 in Pic here ? http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD63&mospid=47404&btnr=11_1503&hg=11&fg=35

Do I need that too? Do I need any other sealant or any thing to install these components and gaskets?


Thanks a lot for being some helpful. I really appreciate all you recommendations and comments.

Best Regards
Akhil

[winfred]

#8 in the picture is one of the 2 needed seals for the thermostat housing if you have the plastic housing or a aftermarket aluminum housing, if you have a factory aluminum housing you need a #7 instead, you need a #6 for ether housing.
the new bmw pumps should be metal
don't worry about plastic bits you can't fish out

[632 Regal]

ditto Win man is right.

[Akhil]

Thanks a lot Winfred, you are right, I can't fish for them. I tried cleaning as deep as I could. One pint I thought for inserting a thin flexible hose with a vacuum cleaner attached to the other end and suck it as much as I can, but I could not find right attachments for it. So I left it as it is.
About #7 vs. #8, I believe I have factory OEM thermostat housing, but can’t be sure. I owned this car only for last 2 and half yr. Is there any way I can tell whether it is factory housing or after market housing? Would you recommend me to get both JIC.

About the coolant pump, do you know where I can get the pump with metal impeller? I think dealer carries only OEM and that again would have a plastic impeller. Right?

Does my list to required part seem complete to you? Am I missing something? Do I need any sealant for putting those gaskets?

Thanks a lot.
Best Regards
Akhil

[Akhil]

I am thinking to order every thing from here https://www.rockauto.com


Have you guys done business with them? What do you guys think about this site in terms of price, quality and availability?

[winfred]

if it's a aluminum housing look around the edges for a gasket poking out, or take it off and look as id guess the car is dead in the water anyway to see what it has, plastic it will use the rubber seal like the aftermarket housing. the new dealer pumps should be metal. no sealent should be needed

[Akhil]

Thanks Winfred, it is an aluminum housing and when I was scratching the old gasket, which was almost broken into pieces, then I saw something which looked like copper gasket around one hole apart from regular gasket. What should I make out of it? I didn't see any BMW logo, mark or name on the housing either. I am planning to get both of the gasket any JIC.

[winfred]

#8 is orange rubber and sits in a channel in the housing

[Akhil]

Thanks guys.

One more question, should I be worry about Oil-ish feeling in drained out coolant? Could it be sign of potential futher problem?

Regards
Akhil

[Dan in NZ]

If the coolant feels oil-ish, that could just be a property of the coolant. If there's oil in it, the oil will be sititng on top of the coolant and you'll quite clearly see it.

Make sure you use bmw blue coolant when you re-fill.

[Trevor]

A little late, but an old trick for clearing out debris in your radiator and cooling system, is to reversh flush the system.
Remove the radiator drain plug, and once all the fluid is drained, insert a hose in to the drain plug hole and turn on the water. Start gently at first so that you dont; over pressure anything. (Make sure radiator cap is off first!)
The theory is that you will pump water bachwards through the system, this dislodging any jammed debris caught in the system. Do thi suntil the water is coming out of the radiator cap for a while.
Drain and then repeat a couple of times.
Fill with BMW coolant and water.
May help (may not...)

[Akhil]

Thanks you so much for all you help and recommendation guys.

I ordered Water Pump, Thermostat and all its gaskets and O-Rings from BMA. SO I will be putting those things in my car this weekend. I have not refilled the cooling system yet, so it not late for me. I can still follow Trevor trick for flushing it. Actually I did flushing but not in reverse direction. What I did is, I took out radiator drain plug and engine block drain plug and drained all the coolant. After coolant stopped dripping from plugs, then I put garden hose into expansion tank and watched water coming out of both drained plugs. I maintained water level in expansion tank so that it neither over flow or now level go lower than about 1” below the tank neck. I let the water flowing from both the drain plugs until I saw clean water coming out of those plugs. But after that flush, when I took one of the how out and checked dirt with my finger, it was still very dirty and brownish in color. I think I need some kind of flushing chemical which can clean those dirt. Do you guys know about any flushing chemical which will be safe for engine, its gaskets and all its seal?

Another question, when I will install new thermostat and water pump, do I have to clean all contact surfaces with Sand paper to get ride of old broken gaskets and seals?

Thanks

Regards
Akhil

[632 Regal]

use a gasket scraper or a wood chisel being careful not to "dig" into the aluminum.

I wouldnt use any chemical cleaners at all. Plain water is good enough.

[granit_silber]

use a gasket scraper or a wood chisel being careful not to "dig" into the aluminum.

I wouldnt use any chemical cleaners at all. Plain water is good enough.
Lowell has a trick where he sprays the old gasket with brake cleaner and lets it soak in a bit and then starts scraping.

Just make sure you get the gasket completely off the housing and the block.

-ashley

[Akhil]

Hi Guys,

I am back. Today, I installed new water pump with metal impeller and new thermostat. Here are the results.

1# Installed new water pump with new O-Ring lubricated with little fresh BMW coolant. It installed fine with no problem.

2# Installed new thermostat with new O-Ring with arrow ( -> ) pointing vertical upward.

3# Installed thermostat housing with new Gasket.

4# Checked all the Nuts and Bolts for water pump and thermostat for proper tourque as mentioned in Bentally Manual..

4# Filled the system with 50/50 BMW coolant and distilled water and bleed through radiator bleed screw.

Now when I started my cold engine, after about a minute, I show coolant leaking underneath the car. I checked where its coming from, then found out Its coming from Thermostat housing. This was not like seeping few drops, rather coolant was flowing out of housing all around its corners.

Can you guys please help me with this? What could have gone wrong or what did I do wrong while installing the thermostat housing? I cleaned the housing surface and the engine block surface as much as I could and it was very clean and smooth with no bump. Should I have put some kind of sealant with new gasket?


Thanks a lot.

Best Regards,
Akhil