Driver's POWER SEAT, Mirrors, Telescop. Wheel QUIT

[swenpro]

I've searched around on bimmer.info a few times now, but I can't figure out my problem ('94 540i):

The power seat (all functions) has been erratic for a while now... sometimes I'd have to wiggle the toggles a few times to get the seat to move. Yesterday after I had reclined the seat back all the way back (uh oh) to take a siesta, it did NOT come back up. It started coming back up for a couple seconds VERY slowly, then --- silence.

So now I'm the ghost car driving around town ghetto-style with the seat reclined back. Not only has the seat quit working, but also the telescoping steering wheel and the power mirrors. I do have MEMORY seats... could this be related? Is the seat "switch" (my memory module?) the problem here? Or is there one motor that powers the seats, wheel, and mirrors that has possibly quit?

Thanks to all for help... It's kinda hard to get around in a car like this :(

[onewhippedpuppy]

Fuse, under the passenger seat by the battery. I had the same problem, and couldn't find a thing about it here or on bimmerforums. Driver's seat, mirrors, and wheel are all on the same circuit due to the memory function. Pull up on the leading edge on both sides of the back seat to pop it up, pull HARD, don't worry, you won't break it.

[swenpro]

onewhippedpuppy- thanks for the prompt response and direction to looking at fuses under the rear seat... however I've now checked all fuses that might have something to do with power seats, mirror, steering, etc and they're all good (including fuses under the hood). I did not find any fuse with "memory" in the name, but i guess that's normal.

Anyone know what to do now? Power seats, mirrors, and telescoping steering wheel still not working... -.-

[Javier]

rear seat, F16 and F18 also have to do with memory seats.

Per your description, it is a slow developing fault, so I wouldn't look for a blown fuse, but an overheated connection, either in the fuse socket or in the seat memory module connector (under driver's seat).

Javier

[callen]

think the fuse whipped pup is refering to is the one that connects to positive side of battery......red 10 Ga? wire that's attached to positive terminal end....has inline fuse holder couple inches from battery....powers accessories. Inline fuse holder has small BMW logo on it..think it's black if memory serves.

[Scott H]

a friend's 1994 E34 M5 euro with memory quit on him just like that. we chased it for a long time, swapping out all fuses, seat switches, memory module, etc etc. he finally brought it to a dealer tech who knows these things very well and does not screw people and they traced it to a faulty memory module and the module has to be computer coded to the vehicle which explains why the one we tried didn't work. it was $600

[onewhippedpuppy]

That's how mine blows too, slow then pop. Seems like it doesn't like it when I adjust my headrest. The answer, don't adjust the headrest.:) The fuse that blows on mine is a 30A blade fuse, located in the fuse block under the back seat near the battery. Other culprits that I have read about are the bad memory module as Scott said, bad motors, or just dirty/ loose connections under the seat. Also, if it turns out to be the module, I saw on another thread someone mentioning having theirs re-built, worth looking into if that's the problem. Last time mine blew my wife had been driving, and I didn't have any spare fuses. I ended up driving with my seat up in the air and damn near in the steering wheel, if I had been in an accident the airbag probably would have blown right through my chest.

[swenpro]

ok... thanks for the help guys BUT, problem not solved yet. Callen, I hadn't checked that inline fuse from the positive terminal, but I have now... little dirty, but still connected.

Yes, Scott H, your post concerns me most ($$!). I pulled out a 7x4x1" black box that everything connects to under the seat... is this the memory module your talking about? It looks like a computer inside, but I have no way of knowing if its functioning correctly. I do have a question about your friends car: were his power seats also acting erraticly for a while (working kinda-sorta) before they quit? That has been my case, which leads me to believe it's a wiring issue.

So I'm getting around now with two pillows propping me up... ah well, better then too close to the steering wheel I suppose. Is a trip to the dealer probably my next step?

[Scott H]

BAM his cousin was moving the seats checking out the car and they stopped working. The memory module is under the driver's seat. I never got the full diagnosis of the problem with his memory module. I hear that sometimes the red memory button on the switch get's partially stuck and freezes the seats. It is possible that the memory switch is a culprit as well.

As far as electrical goes, your best bet is to find an independent or dealer tech in your area who knows electrical well. The dealer will have tools to check things as well. Fortunately, here in Chicagoland there is a tech at a dealer who is popular among the BMWCCA arena, so not only do we have a resource that knows electrical systems well, but he has access to the best tools for the job.


Yes, Scott H, your post concerns me most ($$!). I pulled out a 7x4x1" black box that everything connects to under the seat... is this the memory module your talking about? It looks like a computer inside, but I have no way of knowing if its functioning correctly. I do have a question about your friends car: were his power seats also acting erraticly for a while (working kinda-sorta) before they quit? That has been my case, which leads me to believe it's a wiring issue.

Is a trip to the dealer probably my next step?

[swenpro]

Scott- would you be able to give me location/name/number of this dealer? I too live in Chicagoland :-) thanks

[Scott H]

nt


Scott- would you be able to give me location/name/number of this dealer? I too live in Chicagoland :-) thanks

[shogun]

I have something on my website in the link to Techboy, 13 pages memory seat and mirror training material for BMW technicians.
Direct link here
http://www.hyrumswebsite.com/BMW_pdfs/smm.pdf

[swenpro]

Okay, here's the latest:

I brought my E34 in to a local repair shop, and the mechanic looked at it... basically determined that it IS the seat/mirror memory control module (black box under the seat Scott H was talking about) that has gone bad. The mechanic kindly did not charge me for his research and I picked up the car today... he did print me off a very helpful Technical Service Bulletin, and I have retyped it for your viewing pleasure:


“Seats: All Technical Service Bulletins
Seat and Mirror – Memory Malfunctions
Group 52
Seats

Bulletin Number
52 02 95 (4163)

Woodcliff Lake, NJ
February 1995
Product Engineering

SUBJECT:
Seat and Mirror Memory Malfunctions

MODELS:
5 Series (E34), 7 series (E32) - Vehicles so equipped and produced 9/93 and later.

Situation:
5 and 7 Series vehicles produced 9/93 and later, and equipped with Seat and Mirror Memory, may sporadically exhibit either of two types of malfunction, as follows

1. The seat and mirrors will not operate at all, and diagnoses with the MoDiC or DIS Tester is not possible; or,

2. Seat and mirror adjustments are carried out in the opposite direction of switch movement (e.g., if the seat switch is moved forward, the seat moves backward), and diagnosis with the MoDiC or DIS Tester is not possible.

In either type of malfunction, removing and restoring power from the control module (by fuse removal) restores proper operation, with no faults stored in the fault code memory.

Cause:
Interference between the motor, circuits, and the processor of the control module

Correction:
Replace the control module (P/N 61 35 8 356 510) with one bearing a yellow part number label. These control modules have been modified to incorporate additional protection against interference. Unmodified control modules bear a white part number label.

Until the Parts Department stock is cleared of unmodified control modules, the modified modules can be direct shipped from BMW AG by contacting the BMW NA Parts Department.”


This is obviously a known problem with these power seats, so my next step is to locate a new or used one of these upgraded memory modules with part number 61 35 8 356 510 printed on a YELLOW (not white) label. Does anyone know where I could find this part for the cheapest price? It seems as though they list for $600 :-(

P.S. about programming, Scott, supposedly these newer modules with above part number now come universally pre-programmed

[Scott H]

this fall. I can't believe the proper module to fix the job has changed in the last two months. Did you try using the guy that I referred you to and that dealer with car club discount?

[swenpro]

Scott... thanks for the info about the car club discount and dealer. I may need to use his service in the future, but for the moment I'm going to try to do this one separate from the stealer (even discount can be high). I went to a non-dealer import mechanic who mostly works on BMWs, he had one of these modules to swap in, and his worked fine. He told me this is what I need, and if I go through BMW it's gonna cost $600, so I'm better off finding it online. So my plan for this particular project is to locate the least expensive module online, and plug 'er in... if I find out it still needs programming, so it be. Anyone know online parts sites that sells this 61 35 8 356 510 memory module?

[Javier]

clean all relay contacts in it, check carefully the printed circuit board for signs of overheating pads, deteriorated soldering, or open circuits in the drivng relays area, and put it back in place to see what happens. Yes it's nice to upgrade to the new board if you find one at good price, but in the mean time, it could help.

Javier

[Bill R.]

they worked just fine afterwards...





clean all relay contacts in it, check carefully the printed circuit board for signs of overheating pads, deteriorated soldering, or open circuits in the drivng relays area, and put it back in place to see what happens. Yes it's nice to upgrade to the new board if you find one at good price, but in the mean time, it could help.

Javier

[Javier]

of BMW body electronics designers. All power circuits seem to degrade over time. LKM, GM, RM, CCM, and now Memory module.

Guess Motronic is not from the same designers, as I've never heard about such issues in there!

Javier

[Scott H]

at the dealer. I'm not saying it isn't worth it to try to use used modules or clean your existing one to save some money, but it is also to your benefit to strike up a small relationship with the parts guy at the dealer because there will be a few times when a place like BMA won't save you any money and it is easier to have it brought in to the dealer and pick it up there. It doesn't really hurt to ever call them for a price quote.

I never go there to have work done as I did ALL the work on my 535, and now M5 and 525iT myself. I will be doing the M30/5-spd engine swap myself as well, but will be asking Ben Thongsai to help me update my early wiring harness to work with post 1991 wiring harness as he has previous experience and knowledge doing this. But aside from that, the dealer that my wife's 330Ci was bought from has been great to me b/c I have a small relationship with their service department and parts department. They have done things outside the scope of typical inspections to satisfy us. When was the last time you can say the dealer sold you BMW coolant for $10.30/gallon?

Just stating my case that the dealer is not always the stealer and it never hurts to know a BMW tech whos been around them with the proper tools and information for diagnosis (not that an independent shop can't have these tools either) so that the day your coil fries out and it kills your DME you at least have some options.

Also, if you are in Chicagoland, it would be nice if you would divulge your independent so that the rest of us in the area have another option (if not already a known one) when we need someone to work on our cars. I sent you an e-mail leading you to a possible cause that ended up being right, and inviting you in to the little group we have here in the area (which is a great resource by the way), and you never responded. At this point it appears on the surface as if you are shutting down two possible resources that could really help you one day.

Scott




Scott... thanks for the info about the car club discount and dealer. I may need to use his service in the future, but for the moment I'm going to try to do this one separate from the stealer (even discount can be high).

[swenpro]

Scott - I'm sorry for the bit of misunderstanding. I did already respond to your help, just not by private e-mail. You will see in my above post: "Scott... thanks for the info about the car club discount and dealer. I may need to use his service in the future, but for the moment I'm going to try to do this one separate from the stealer."

Thank you again, however the reason I didn't jump on calling this dealer for diagnosis of the problem is that I live near the south-west suburb of Hinsdale--more than just a few minutes away from Schaumburg. Now that I know what the problem is (going 5 min away for $0 labor) I am VERY interested in learning more about the CCA discount. Rereading your e-mail I see Wilson's post, "I was getting ready to see stars on the price because according to the parts CD, the memory module was $1190, list. But they said with my CCA discount they were showing the module as costing $295. I told them to do it!"

Can I become a BMWCCA member at my local BMW dealer and have them give me a quote for the memory module w/ aforesaid part #? Or must I work through this dealer on the north side? Thanks for the help :)

P.S. I was not trying to intentionally withold helpful info from other members about the mechanic... Chuck's Import auto repair shop in Darien, IL, 630-964-5271, the original owner Chuck retired last year, but two mechanics (names?) work there now, one with 25 years experience, the other with 9 yrs (the one who helped me), and they mostly work on German/BMW cars. This has been my first experience with them...

[Scott H]

but many people on this forum are very quick to dismiss the dealer as a viable option for complicated issues such as this one. I apologize if I was abrasive. Your reasoning is quite valid and I can't say I disagree with your choice! Also, I've never really heard that Laurel BMW on Ogden over there has ever been of any extraordinary help for anyone....lol.

You can sign up for BMW car club at bmwcca.org. The Roundel magazine and parts discount are well worth the price of admission. Your post count is low and it is hard to make any assumptions about a new person like: is this your first BMW, your first E34, etc etc so I was never really sure if you were a BMWCCA member already or not.

Most of the Chicago E34 guys that participate heavily on this board are a tight group and look forward to learning and meeting others in the area and I/we are used to my/our open arms being received a little more readily with a lot of information sharing going on. I guess I had set up an expectation there that was not met....leading to a bit of frustration as well.

Once again, my apologies if anything came off strong and abrasive,

Regards,
Scott


Thank you again, however the reason I didn't jump on calling this dealer for diagnosis of the problem is that I live near the south-west suburb of Hinsdale--more than just a few minutes away from Schaumburg. Now that I know what the problem is (going 5 min away for $0 labor) I am VERY interested in learning more about the CCA discount. Rereading your e-mail I see Wilson's post, "I was getting ready to see stars on the price because according to the parts CD, the memory module was $1190, list. But they said with my CCA discount they were showing the module as costing $295. I told them to do it!"

Can I become a BMWCCA member at my local BMW dealer and have them give me a quote for the memory module w/ aforesaid part #? Or must I work through this dealer on the north side? Thanks for the help :)

P.S. I was not trying to intentionally withold helpful info from other members about the mechanic... Chuck's Import auto repair shop in Darien, IL, 630-964-5271, the original owner Chuck retired last year, but two mechanics (names?) work there now, one with 25 years experience, the other with 9 yrs (the one who helped me), and they mostly work on German/BMW cars. This has been my first experience with them...

[Martin in Bellevue]

We're expected to apologize for being a wee bit abrasive around here?


but many people on this forum are very quick to dismiss the dealer as a viable option for complicated issues such as this one. I apologize if I was abrasive...
Once again, my apologies if anything came off strong and abrasive,
Regards,
Scotty

[Scott H]

since there is a LOT of it around here.....

Swenpro is obviously not one of THEM.....gotta apologize in this case...lol



We're expected to apologize for being a wee bit abrasive around here?

[swenpro]

Ha ha... thanks guys.... so here's what's up: a new module from, yes, Laurel BMW, is $375 (minus some dollars if a CCA member). I then talked to bmrparts.com about the used modules they sell. $150 for a module with a 6-month warranty. After saying I'd call back later, he quickly lowered the price to $100. So I called them back later to order my used memory module for $100, plus $30 for a LIFETIME warranty, so I should be safe. Both BMW dealer and bmrparts said again that they come pre-programmed for universal use, so just plug in and go. I'll let you know the final result after installation :-)

btw, thanks javier and others for pointing to the FIY methods, but I simply don't have the time or the expertise to start doing soldering, etc. Buying the new one hopefully is the simplest way to go (and from looking at the one that's currently in my car, it seems as if this problem has happened before and it was refurbished... it has non-bmw "warranty" stickers, etc).