DIY valves question/struts

[jarome]

I previously posted a problem that my car had this ticking sound when I first start up the car. I'm pretty sure that it's the valves making the sound. Is this a difficult diy job and how much would the parts cost (roughly)?

Also, my front struts needs a replacement soon. Where can I pick up a pair at a decent price?

Thanks in advance,
Jarome

[rreimund]

Funny you mention this. I was actually going to post about a noise that I had on startup... but here's the thing.. i don't think it's the valves.


I get this ticking sound that appears to be worse when it's cold out (so I'm noticing it more now that it's getting colder).. It sort of sounds like when you put a playing card in the spoke of a bicycle wheel. Now here's why I don't think it's the valves...
1.) It happens only when under load
2.) The frequency (ticks per minute) seems to increase with speed, but not really with rpms. i.e. if I'm under load going up a hill in 2nd gear, and then shift to 3rd, but still stay under load... the ticking doesn't change dramatically (only as I accelerate).. If it was the valves you'd expect that with the drop in rpms from 2nd to 3rd the valves would chatter a slower rate.

My theory, and what I was looking for someone to potentially rule out of corroborate was that it's my guibo. Other symptoms I have are some bucking and "kangaroo-ing" upon dramatic load changes at times. I'm thinking that with the cold and under load the guibo is deforming in a way that somehow causes a tick somewhere in the driveline.

The other thing it could be would be the U-joint in the driveshaft. :eek:

any thoughts? anyone?

[Rory]

Funny you mention this. I was actually going to post about a noise that I had on startup... but here's the thing.. i don't think it's the valves.


I get this ticking sound that appears to be worse when it's cold out (so I'm noticing it more now that it's getting colder).. It sort of sounds like when you put a playing card in the spoke of a bicycle wheel. Now here's why I don't think it's the valves...
1.) It happens only when under load
2.) The frequency (ticks per minute) seems to increase with speed, but not really with rpms. i.e. if I'm under load going up a hill in 2nd gear, and then shift to 3rd, but still stay under load... the ticking doesn't change dramatically (only as I accelerate).. If it was the valves you'd expect that with the drop in rpms from 2nd to 3rd the valves would chatter a slower rate.

My theory, and what I was looking for someone to potentially rule out of corroborate was that it's my guibo. Other symptoms I have are some bucking and "kangaroo-ing" upon dramatic load changes at times. I'm thinking that with the cold and under load the guibo is deforming in a way that somehow causes a tick somewhere in the driveline.

The other thing it could be would be the U-joint in the driveshaft. :eek:

any thoughts? anyone?
OK, all in one here.

jarome: You have the M50B25TU engine which has hydraulic valve lifters. They are NOT adjustable like traditional valves. Problems may be too thick of an oil (if it is happening when cold that may be the cause), too thin of an oil or a worn oil pump which do not allow the lifters to build enough pressure so they collapse, air leak being sucked into the oil system and frothing the oil, etc. If the noise goes away (according to BMW) within 20 minutes then it is normal. Check the archives for some more info. Most will recommend 10w-30 or 5w-30 for most climates assuming you are running synthetics.

Regarding struts, are you planning on going OE Boge's, lowering the car with new springs also, stiffening the ride? Are you looking for Koni's Bilsteins, Sachs? BMA Autoparts is a great option for cheap parts (888.BMA.3911 or www.bmaautoparts.com (http://www.bmaautoparts.com)). Again, the archives and google have answers and opinions on suspension ad naseum so give it a search. And remember, what is too firm for you may be just right for somebody else ;)

rreimund: Sounds to me like valve clatter. If the car is "Kangarooing" or "bucking" I would investigate adjusting the valves to spec and installing new plugs and maybe a cap and rotor. You are correct though, valves would increase with engine speed but the rest of the symptoms sound like valves to me. Have you had a chance to crawl under and investigate the flex disk or see if you have something hanging on the calipers?

Good Luck,
Rory

[rreimund]

rreimund: Sounds to me like valve clatter. If the car is "Kangarooing" or "bucking" I would investigate adjusting the valves to spec and installing new plugs and maybe a cap and rotor. You are correct though, valves would increase with engine speed but the rest of the symptoms sound like valves to me. Have you had a chance to crawl under and investigate the flex disk or see if you have something hanging on the calipers?



Thanks Rory for the prompt response.. I really didn't think it was valve clatter, as I can clearly hear the valves otherwise, and I expected some. Would the valves clatter more under load (i.e. when accelerating) versus just cruising at a constant speed (even if it's at higher rpm?)

I'm going to adjust the valves as soon as I get a chance, since I don't know the last time they were adjusted before I bought the car. Also, the bucking is only when I'm shifting when transitioning from being under load to letting go of the gas, or putting the clutch in while the driveline is loaded.. I don't have bucking when I'm just cruising in 5th for example, or even when idling..

The only rough idle I had was with my first tank of gas when I pumped regular octane (87) forgeting to put in a higher octane. I pumped 93 octane for the second tank of gas and the entire engine started running smoother and idling smoother.

I will investigate doing some of the upgrades you suggested since it's warranted anyway, and if it doesn't solve the problem at least it's been done already so it's another maintenance item I don't have to worry about doing.

[632 Regal]

this sounds like an exhaust leak.

Would the valves clatter more under load (i.e. when accelerating) versus just cruising at a constant speed (even if it's at higher rpm?)

[Bill R.]

the driveshaft , that would tend to relate to it corresponding to vehicle speed like you stated . And the playing card sound it typical of the sound that the guibo makes or that the center bearing can make when its bad and the driveshaft is rubbing against the heat shield... I've also seen the same noise on one that had broken transmission mounts and when you accelerated hard the trans tailshaft moved enough that it would allow the driveshaft to rub on the heatshield or the tunnel..




Funny you mention this. I was actually going to post about a noise that I had on startup... but here's the thing.. i don't think it's the valves.


I get this ticking sound that appears to be worse when it's cold out (so I'm noticing it more now that it's getting colder).. It sort of sounds like when you put a playing card in the spoke of a bicycle wheel. Now here's why I don't think it's the valves...
1.) It happens only when under load
2.) The frequency (ticks per minute) seems to increase with speed, but not really with rpms. i.e. if I'm under load going up a hill in 2nd gear, and then shift to 3rd, but still stay under load... the ticking doesn't change dramatically (only as I accelerate).. If it was the valves you'd expect that with the drop in rpms from 2nd to 3rd the valves would chatter a slower rate.

My theory, and what I was looking for someone to potentially rule out of corroborate was that it's my guibo. Other symptoms I have are some bucking and "kangaroo-ing" upon dramatic load changes at times. I'm thinking that with the cold and under load the guibo is deforming in a way that somehow causes a tick somewhere in the driveline.

The other thing it could be would be the U-joint in the driveshaft. :eek:

any thoughts? anyone?

[rreimund]

the driveshaft , that would tend to relate to it corresponding to vehicle speed like you stated . And the playing card sound it typical of the sound that the guibo makes or that the center bearing can make when its bad and the driveshaft is rubbing against the heat shield... I've also seen the same noise on one that had broken transmission mounts and when you accelerated hard the trans tailshaft moved enough that it would allow the driveshaft to rub on the heatshield or the tunnel..

Thanks Bill... that's sort of what I suspected, but I couldn't explain why it would be making the noise.. but that does explain the noise, rubbing on the heatshield that is.

In any case, thank you to all who've responded.. There's stuff here that I've got plans to do anyway.. (like the valve job, etc.) I'll take a look for any exhaust leaks when I'm down there, and I figured I'd do the guibo and tranny mounts at the same time while I was under there.. Now it's just a matter of when... I need 9 day weeks.. :D

Jarome, So sorry for hijacking your thread..

[jarome]

2.) The frequency (ticks per minute) seems to increase with speed, but not really with rpms. i.e. if I'm under load going up a hill in 2nd gear, and then shift to 3rd, but still stay under load... the ticking doesn't change dramatically (only as I accelerate).. If it was the valves you'd expect that with the drop in rpms from 2nd to 3rd the valves would chatter a slower rate.



The ticking only happens when I start up my car. When in motion the ticking stops. Even when the car is in park I pressed the gas pedal very slightly till it hit about 1000 RPM. The ticking is no longer there. I tried going at different speeds this morning and it was all fine. When I come to a hault (red light, stop sign, etc...) the ticking comes back.

[jarome]

Jarome, So sorry for hijacking your thread..

haha no worries. more for me to learn :D

[Phatty5BMW]

Hey Jarome, I'm pretty sure its not it but i had this problem recently, it was a heat sheild by the back of my muffler vibrating up on top. I pressed on it and the sound stopped. I thought it was a faulty muffler first but who knows, take a good look around. I may have missed it but where does it sound like the sound is comming from?????
Pat

[jarome]

Hey Jarome, I'm pretty sure its not it but i had this problem recently, it was a heat sheild by the back of my muffler vibrating up on top. I pressed on it and the sound stopped. I thought it was a faulty muffler first but who knows, take a good look around. I may have missed it but where does it sound like the sound is comming from?????
Pat

I'm 99.9% sure it's from the front. Could it be my belt that's making the ticking sound?

[DanH]

I'm 99.9% sure it's from the front. Could it be my belt that's making the ticking sound?

What oil are you running? (brand/type/visc)

[jarome]

What oil are you running? (brand/type/visc)

mobil 1 0w40.
Oil change was done in July 2005.

[Jay 535i]

I have a bit of valve clatter for the first 5 minutes if it's below ~10degC. Then it goes away. BMW says this is normal. Other cars I've had also do this, with seemingly no ill effects long-term.

FWIW, I just put the Sachs kit on my car and I LOVE IT. I highly recommend it. Price is about US$750 + Shipping + Installation. That includes four struts and four springs. You car will have never driven nor looked so good. Ride is a little firmer, but far from objectionable.