One word: M5

[genphreak]

.... we love them

BMW have finally surpassed all other marques. There's simply no need for brands like Ferrari any more (http://www.wimp.com/ferrariracing/) is there? :D

[bahnstormer]

is M5 a word?

[Jose]

Naaah, Ferrari defenitly is...

[ericcamaro]

after learning all the features of the M5 and the fact that it is hand built has made me want one just as much as a ferrari.

[zygoteer]

I suspect the Ferrari comments are not based on experience

[bahnstormer]

m5 isn't hand built lol
its about as hand built as my 535i was =\

[Gayle]

Good one Nick. I love it when the home team wins!

[bfd]

m5 isn't hand built lol
its about as hand built as my 535i was =\

From the E34 M5 FAQ:

Were the E34 M5s hand-built?

Both E28 M5 and the E34 M5 and where hand assembled.

* The E28 M5 was assembled at the Preussenstrasse in Munich and used the bodies of the E28 production line.
* The E34 M5 was hand assembled at M GMBH in Garching. The bodies came from the BMW plant in Dingolfing.
* The E30 M3 was assembled on the 3 series production line and is not hand assembled.

Follow-up:

The M5 of the second generation 5-series was based on the BMW 535i. The 535i bodyshell arrive more or less complete, having been taken from the normal 5 series production line. Most of the other mechanical components arrive at Motorsport as subassemblies. The major mechanical assembly is handled by just one technician or -if they prefer- as a team. The 72 technicians at Motorsport are highly trained, highly qualified and highly skilled. Each car takes about a week to complete, and before its released its subjected to many quality tests, which takes four to five hours, including a test drive. The test is so thorough that the inspector reckon, with a bit of practice, who has assemled each particular car!

http://bmwe34m5.com/faqs/

[Gayle]

From the E34 M5 FAQ:

Were the E34 M5s hand-built?

Both E28 M5 and the E34 M5 and where hand assembled.

* The E28 M5 was assembled at the Preussenstrasse in Munich and used the bodies of the E28 production line.
* The E34 M5 was hand assembled at M GMBH in Garching. The bodies came from the BMW plant in Dingolfing.
* The E30 M3 was assembled on the 3 series production line and is not hand assembled.

Follow-up:

The M5 of the second generation 5-series was based on the BMW 535i. The 535i bodyshell arrive more or less complete, having been taken from the normal 5 series production line. Most of the other mechanical components arrive at Motorsport as subassemblies. The major mechanical assembly is handled by just one technician or -if they prefer- as a team. The 72 technicians at Motorsport are highly trained, highly qualified and highly skilled. Each car takes about a week to complete, and before its released its subjected to many quality tests, which takes four to five hours, including a test drive. The test is so thorough that the inspector reckon, with a bit of practice, who has assemled each particular car!

http://bmwe34m5.com/faqs/


Here is the signature in Jr's M5 and here is what he says about it. " So after a team of 7 Motorsport mechanics build this beast over a period of 2 weeks, in an almost sterile enviroment. The team leader signs the work of art and dates it in typical German fashion."

https://home.insightbb.com/~england31/Dscn1207.jpg

[Jose]

Don't want to rain on your parade guys, but the new M5 and M6 are not hand build at all not even the E39. They are just as hand build as the other BMW of today. They only get a more thorough final inspection than other BMW models rolling of the assembly line. This according to my brother in law who's a head accountant at the BMW head office in the Netherlands and has seen the process with his own eyes at the factory plant .

As for Ferrari experience; don't even think the new M5 or any M5 at all comes close to the sensations a Ferrari can give you. If you've read prvious posts about the new M5 you could have seen I've driven the V10 M5 and a instructor took me for a drifting session on the track, so I know what the car feels like and it didn't even come close to the 512 TR and the F50.
Driven both, unfortunately for only a couple of hours but I will never will forget the sensation of speed, grip and supersportscar feeling. An M5, how great it may be, will never, ever surpass a Ferrari.

First do the walk, than do the talk.

[mattyb]

wow thats aweaome. how did u get access to these vehicles???

[Jose]

[ * The E30 M3 was assembled on the 3 series production line and is not hand assembled.

Excuse me ???!!!! The M3 is completely hand build and certainly not on the production line. Do you have any idea what you are saying ????

Almost every part of the E30 M3 is unique compared to the std E30!!! Not even the roof is the same!!!

It was a hand assembeled car because of it's differences with the std model.

As for the E28 and E34, these were only taken of the production line for engine and transmission fine tune ups before leaving to the customers. Less handwork than on a M3, no doubt about that.

[Jose]

Lets say I had the wrong friends, with the wrong kind of cashs for a while when I drove the Ferrari's, even drove the Diablo special anyversary edition for two days owned by a 19 year old. ( this car is scary, believe me, not funny on full throttle)

The M5 I drove through a connection at work who invited me to a day on the track where proud M5 owners learned how to best handle the cars power.

[genphreak]

Don't want to rain on your parade guys... First do the walk, than do the talk.I admit I haven't driven anything other than a 308GTS (the 80s Dino) which is hardly a supercar, but it was fun and it had the look, so its at least a taster. Next coolest thing I've driven was a very new 911Turbo and a 944S3 (years ago) and earlier various V8 Fords. I didn't mean to say that Ferrari's are bad, but in my book there is no longer any reason to have one when one can get a car like the M5- as it has similar (enough) performance and a host of practical features (inc. 4 doors), such as comfort, climate controls, a decent sound system (as opposed to an engine behind your head), and the ability to be left on the street, go long distances (like going on holiday for example- hard to do with no storage space) getting a Ferrari serviced is hardly practical either), etc. etc. I mean, even people in China buy Ferraris and the like but can't drive them as the streets are (often) too poor...

Sheeet, an M5 can even tow a boat... (not that I'd want to consider putting a towbar on one), mum and dad can get in (and out) of it and it can handle the traffic and the odd bump... :) Nick

[zygoteer]

.. a 308 is a relatively 'sanitized' car, and was originally conceived and produced to provide funding (mostly from USA) for F1 racing, so it is inevitably a 'compromise', therefore it is unfair to both you and the cars to make comparisons based on that brief experience.

I know that when you drive the F40, EVO or the 288 (and I suppose marginally the F50 qualifies too) for more than a simple trip down the road and back (& no, it doesn't have to be on a track), you will begin to realise that there is far more that you are missing out on when you drive either M5's of any era, or 911's including the fabulous 959 (944's shouldn't be mentioned in same breath of course), such that reasons to 'own' a real supercar will naturally abound.



PS. I fail to understand why even the idea of wanting storage space or towing a boat, with the type of vehicle you might categorise as a 'supercar' or equivalent, occurs to you - maybe its the aura the M5 gives out ?

[Incantation]

let's not get confused. that video is of the best bmw vs the slowest ferrari

the M5 is marketed at people who want the space of a 5 seater with luxury amenities that has the spirit of a sports car that can be used for practical everyday driving.

it's a sports sedan.. a sedan that can also double as a track worthy car; not meant to compete against ANY 2 door sportscars even though it could keep up with most sports cars under $200K except for the new C6 Z06

once we're talking Pagani, Koenigsegg, Ferrari Enzo, Porsche Carrera GT, Lambo Murcielago etc.. that's out of its league as far as track performance

a strong point of the E60 M5 is it's torque which means it has great ability to pull over long distances or keep up without losing much power during shifts. In turns... it just can't compete with a true sports car on stock equipment.

[Alexlind123]

I recently saw a top gear episode on the new M5, he said it was the best car he had ever driven, including some ferrari, i dont remember the model.

[bfd]

[ * The E30 M3 was assembled on the 3 series production line and is not hand assembled.

Excuse me ???!!!! The M3 is completely hand build and certainly not on the production line. Do you have any idea what you are saying ????

Almost every part of the E30 M3 is unique compared to the std E30!!! Not even the roof is the same!!!

It was a hand assembeled car because of it's differences with the std model.

As for the E28 and E34, these were only taken of the production line for engine and transmission fine tune ups before leaving to the customers. Less handwork than on a M3, no doubt about that.

From the E30 M3 FAQ:

"Where was the E30 M3 produced?
Because of the relatively high production numbers required to homologate the M3, production took place at the normal Munich-Milbertshofe factory instead of in the more limited Motorsport facility in Garching. However, unlike the normal E30 models, the M3's drivetrain was assembled by special teams, then mated to the chassis on the regular assembly line." (emphasis added).

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=8#1

[mzarifkar]

if it was the top gear where he complained the first 80%, it was a ferrari 430



I recently saw a top gear episode on the new M5, he said it was the best car he had ever driven, including some ferrari, i dont remember the model.

[genphreak]

I think there is some misunderstanding. OK, so there is always a place for the ultimate purist sports car, but

There is now no way, (at least I can't think of one,) to justify the (minimal) difference your would get buying such cars over a new M5.

Sure I haven't driven those exact cars, (neither have I driven the new M5). But if you have to drive one on a race track to appreciate the difference, I think my point is made (unless you literally buy it to race it). Most roads can't do justice to anything with half the makings of a real suspension, so many performance cars are bought somewhat inappropriately for their actual use as it is.

ie if one (feels) one needs to spend $500,000 on a registgerable car that (for all intents and purposes) cannot be driven beyond 2nd gear on a road or used for the purpose of basic transport, left in a parking lot, etc. seriously what is the point?

Give BMW some credit. With the new M5 (like or loathe the design and idrive, heh, re beyond the marketers appointments) they've done what no other company has been able to do ever before! (ie make a true supercar)

That is why (the only reason) it is worth the money; because you can buy it, love it and use or abuse it- you can appreciate it in so many ways; it is the pinnacle of the modern automotive artform- it's sum is far more than its engineer's passions, or the (never ending) search for more pedal power than one can (reasonably) use.

Other cars all for ego... not the art. Now this is clear, fair and square:

Anyone that buys such a vehicle has no way to avoid the ego slur! If its fast and new- but not an M5, there is obviously no excuse!

[Jose]

Lets face it,where's the limit for these fast saloons? Audi is presenting it's new rs6 next year with a Lambo V10 with twin turbo with , if I'm not mistaken, approx 575 bhp and already a new chip is developped by the motorsport department of VW/Lamborghini which will put the power over the 600 bhp mark. I don't understand why they are doing this anyway, what's the use ? The cars keep putting on weight versus increasing bhp's. They are not improving the performance at all compared to the "weaker" lder models of these cars as the older ones are lighter and also do the 0-60 sprint under 5 secs and they all hit the 160 mph.

I think ideally speaking the best situation would be a 550i for daily driving and long trips, and a Ferrari for the sunny and macho feeling days....I'll be waking up soon now...

[ejhiggins]

i think for most of us where income plays a big role on what we drive the M5 is the obvious choice, it can do most of what any ferrari does with room for four and luggage sapace, if you look close at performance data the difference between these cars is very small. Now if the average income in this forum was over a million a year we wouldn't be having this discussion we'd probably drive an M5 to work and have a Lambo for the track weekends.

[Incantation]

no mean i hear you.. i am the biggest fan of the m5.. and with the average driver and/or amateur track driver you probably wouldn't get much difference in lap times, if any.. it would be a toss up

but.. having said that, if you had equal pro drivers i have a hard time believing that the m5 would come out on top vs some of the elite rides out there

anyway.. if it were my choice i would take the m5 over probably anything