Front ball joints need replacing. Cost?

[Jay 535i]

I need to have my car saftied ASAP, and my indy mechanic tells me, to pass, I need new front ball joints. I know him to be trustworthy and competent. He has quoted me $650+labor, in Canadian dollars.

Is that fair?

[Dave M]

Well, not sure which ball joints you're in need of, but even if we count on needing left and right upper and lower control arms with bushings, the total cost of parts from BMA would be:

Lemfoerder lower control arms with pressed 750 bushing and new ball joints-Maximum $200 U.S.

Lemfoerder upper control arms and seperate bushings ($20 each) and new ball joints-Maximum $220 U.S. (there are much cheaper alternatives at BMA, Meyle etc.)

So, if your mechanic is purchasing new control arms , bushings and ball joints for every conceivable component (except tie rods), then he's in the ballpark. If would accept you bringing the parts, you can ordeer them and save some $$. I am also in Canada and have ordered many parts from BMA without paying significant duties etc.

Check to see exactly what you're getting for $650 and compare it to http://catalog.bmaparts.com/epcvsoapimc.epc?cookieID=1G40RFEFW1OF0VIRRS&drillid=8&subcatid=801029@@Ball+Joints%2C+Control+Arms+%26+R elated&clientid=bmaparts

Good Luck,

Dave M

[Jay 535i]

Well, not sure which ball joints you're in need of, but even if we count on needing left and right upper and lower control arms with bushings, the total cost of parts from BMA would be:

Lemfoerder lower control arms with pressed 750 bushing and new ball joints-Maximum $200 U.S.

Lemfoerder upper control arms and seperate bushings ($20 each) and new ball joints-Maximum $220 U.S. (there are much cheaper alternatives at BMA, Meyle etc.)

So, if your mechanic is purchasing new control arms , bushings and ball joints for every conceivable component (except tie rods), then he's in the ballpark. If would accept you bringing the parts, you can ordeer them and save some $$. I am also in Canada and have ordered many parts from BMA without paying significant duties etc.

Check to see exactly what you're getting for $650 and compare it to http://catalog.bmaparts.com/epcvsoapimc.epc?cookieID=1G40RFEFW1OF0VIRRS&drillid=8&subcatid=801029@@Ball+Joints%2C+Control+Arms+%26+R elated&clientid=bmaparts

Good Luck,

Dave M

Thanks, Dave. The problem is, this is urgent. If I don't get the car certified RIGHT AWAY my insurance co. is going to cancel my policy, and create major headaches for me.

I don't mind spending $100-200 over BMA prices to have it done NOW. I'll find out exactly what's getting replaced.

Assuming my guy is using OEM parts, are the parts you mentioned preferable, all else being equal?

[peks]

is he replacing just the balljoints? i dont know if thats possible. if hes replacing the whole control arm and/or thrust arm assemblies, make sure they have the 750il bushings..

[Scott H]

upper and lower control arms??? If the bushings are shot, it would be best to just get the entire arm with bushings and put them in instead of taking it all apart just to replace the ball joints....especially if you will need to replace them again in the near future to remedy worn bushings.

I would think your insurance would put a hold on their policy while the car is in the shop being fixed to meet their criteria.

[Scott H]

Been using them with better success than the 750 bushings as many others are as well.


is he replacing just the balljoints? i dont know if thats possible. if hes replacing the whole control arm and/or thrust arm assemblies, make sure they have the 750il bushings..

[Jay 535i]

Oh man, I'm more confused than ever!

Please somebody explain this to me. Why does it matter which bushings are used? What parts in that vicinity tend to wear out, and which ones (if any) last forever?

My mechanic just told me on the phone that "the balljoints -- which hold the wheels on -- are completely shot and about to let go". That's all I know. I don't really understand what all goes on in that part of the car.

Like I said, I trust my mechanic. He will follow my instructions if I request specific parts, but I have to know what to tell him. And, it would be nice to explain my decisions if he asks me about them.

Can someone educate me a bit here and give be both a plan and an explanation to go along with it?

BTW, I did look at BMA as Dave suggested above, but found absolutely nothing in the "bushings and ball joints" section for the 535.

Oh, and to answer Scott's question, I don't know when the control arms were last replaced. Maybe never. Do they typically need replacing after xx miles?

My insurance agent has agreed to sit tight while the parts are on order. So ordering from BMA or some other place is an option, but I need to know exactly what to order, since this is all very foreign to me.

Many, many thanks guys.

[Scott H]

There are two control arms on each side of the front suspension. Upper thrust arm keeps wheel centered in the wheel well, Lower control arm keeps the wheel stable in/out of the wheel well.

Each arm has a bushing that a bolt goes through where it attaches to the subframe under the car. The upper thrust arm bushing gets beat up and that is the place to use a stronger bushing (750 or M5 will fit). The lower is what it is....doesn't take as much abuse.

The ball joints connect these arms at the bottom of the strut assembly. They also wear and the rubber boots break open releasing grease, accelerating wear. This is probably what your mechanic sees.

It is much easier and cost effective to order the entire arm with a bushing of your choice (M5 is my preference) pressed in from BMA than it is to have your mechanic remove the part and pop out the ball joint and press in new ones. This way, if your bushings were close to needing replacement, you have now done some great preventative maintenance.

The lower arm bushing is the same (nothing to upgrade) and is the same case as the upper arm when it comes to replacement.



Oh man, I'm more confused than ever!

Please somebody explain this to me. Why does it matter which bushings are used? What parts in that vicinity tend to wear out, and which ones (if any) last forever?

My mechanic just told me on the phone that "the balljoints -- which hold the wheels on -- are completely shot and about to let go". That's all I know. I don't really understand what all goes on in that part of the car.

Like I said, I trust my mechanic. He will follow my instructions if I request specific parts, but I have to know what to tell him. And, it would be nice to explain my decisions if he asks me about them.

Can someone educate me a bit here and give be both a plan and an explanation to go along with it?

BTW, I did look at BMA as Dave suggested above, but found absolutely nothing in the "bushings and ball joints" section for the 535.

Oh, and to answer Scott's question, I don't know when the control arms were last replaced. Maybe never. Do they typically need replacing after xx miles?

My insurance agent has agreed to sit tight while the parts are on order. So ordering from BMA or some other place is an option, but I need to know exactly what to order, since this is all very foreign to me.

Many, many thanks guys.

[Chip]

Oh man, I'm more confused than ever!

Please somebody explain this to me. Why does it matter which bushings are used? What parts in that vicinity tend to wear out, and which ones (if any) last forever?

My mechanic just told me on the phone that "the balljoints -- which hold the wheels on -- are completely shot and about to let go". That's all I know. I don't really understand what all goes on in that part of the car.

Like I said, I trust my mechanic. He will follow my instructions if I request specific parts, but I have to know what to tell him. And, it would be nice to explain my decisions if he asks me about them.

Can someone educate me a bit here and give be both a plan and an explanation to go along with it?

BTW, I did look at BMA as Dave suggested above, but found absolutely nothing in the "bushings and ball joints" section for the 535.

Oh, and to answer Scott's question, I don't know when the control arms were last replaced. Maybe never. Do they typically need replacing after xx miles?

My insurance agent has agreed to sit tight while the parts are on order. So ordering from BMA or some other place is an option, but I need to know exactly what to order, since this is all very foreign to me.

Many, many thanks guys.

He may be referring to the wheel hubs which could be around $200 each. If it was the upper/lower control arms you would probably be experiencing some typical 50-60mph shaking.

good luck-

[Jay 535i]

It is much easier and cost effective to order the entire arm with a bushing of your choice (M5 is my preference) pressed in from BMA than it is to have your mechanic remove the part and pop out the ball joint and press in new ones. This way, if your bushings were close to needing replacement, you have now done some great preventative maintenance.

If I order that part you're talking about -- the entire arm with a bushing -- does that include the ball joint?

Are you further saying that, strictly speaking, there's no need to replace the lower arm right now?

I'm still a little confused, although your explanation helped a lot.

[Scott H]

>If I order that part you're talking about -- the entire arm with a bushing -- >does that include the ball joint?

yes all new arms, upper and lower, come with ball joints

>Are you further saying that, strictly speaking, there's no need to replace >the lower arm right now?

no, the lower arm has a ball joint as well and could quite possibly be worn as well

>I'm still a little confused, although your explanation helped a lot.

[Jay 535i]

>If I order that part you're talking about -- the entire arm with a bushing -- >does that include the ball joint?

yes all new arms, upper and lower, come with ball joints

>Are you further saying that, strictly speaking, there's no need to replace >the lower arm right now?

no, the lower arm has a ball joint as well and could quite possibly be worn as well

>I'm still a little confused, although your explanation helped a lot.

OKAY! Thanks, man.

So, if I get on the horn to BMA and tell them this stuff, they'll know what I'm talking about? And the price is ~$500 for all the parts? And I can specify any bushing I want?

Just to be 100% sure I order the right parts, what exactly are these parts called that I need? In other words, I'll say to BMA "I need a ....(?)".

UPDATE:

Just got off the phone with my mechanic. Basically, he knew all the stuff you just told me :) He's already ordered lower control arms from BMW, which he expects will arrive tomorrow morning for immediate installation. That makes me happy.

He says the upper bushings are not perfect, but there's no play or looseness, so he's going to leave them alone. He also says my steering box is worn, but not badly enough to fail certification. He says (and I believe him) that he is doing only what's necessary to certify, and that he's doing the job intelligently with regard to both my wallet and the longevity of the car.

I might be able to save some bucks by going with BMA, but it's also going to create delays and headaches for me. I think I'm just going to let my mechanic run with it so I can put this behind me. I really do appreciate the education, though.

Thanks, guys. You've been a big help.

[Scott H]

left and right Lemforder upper arms with (bushing of your choice)

left and right lower control arms

[Black 535i]

I used to live in Toronto and never remember an agent getting so involved unless you forgot to pay your premiums. I'm curious why he is so concerned?


I need to have my car saftied ASAP, and my indy mechanic tells me, to pass, I need new front ball joints. I know him to be trustworthy and competent. He has quoted me $650+labor, in Canadian dollars.

Is that fair?

[kyleN20]

sounds expensive, but im a diy''er, seem like its expensive if that was parts and labor, i just replaced e46 lower control arms, new ball joints, new control arm bushings, new bilstine hd strus, and sway bar bushings for about 800 in parts, and thats the best stuff on a new e46

[Kalevera]

Were I doing this job right now, I'd be getting the M5 bushings.

As Scott noted, they're an improved design over the 750. It's actually a hydro bushing, if I recall correctly.

Jay, you took it to a mechanic. A significant percentage of his revenue is made in selling parts; I wouldn't try to shortchange him on that. Plus, he's unlikely to warranty his labor on the part's install (at least, I wouldn't, and we don't).

Testing ball joints on the front end of the E34 is really quite easy. Get the car slightly off the ground in the front/no weight on the front wheels. It takes a large pair of water pump pliers (bigger than the ones in the trunk). I "compress" the joint, top to bottom. Play, indicating a needed replacement, is obvious in the feel -- there should be none.

Get a flash light and look at the upper thrust arm bushings. If they're cracked through the rubber, they're done. Some "wear" is typical, cracks are bad. Study how the bushing works in order to make a sound assessment.

As Scott also said, I think it's a waste of time (money) to NOT replace the bushings while in there. They'll probably need replacing, anyway, and then there's the risk of destroying the ball joint on removal unless the shop has one of Baum's fancy new in-car bushing changers or something that'll safely press out the ball joint stud from the steering arm. Heck, I'd just have the entire arm replaced, forget pressing out the ball joints. Uppers and lowers should be about an hour per set; pressing old joints out and new ones in adds to the cost.

best, whit

[Jay 535i]

Thanks. The whole arm is being replaced with ball joint, bushing and all.

Black 535, to answer your question, the policy is new. Hence the scrutiny.