Poll: BMW loses it sould when a non BMW engine is under the hood?

[Jon K]

This was started on another forum. The guy did an E30 M3 with an LS1. Then a guy posts with a "perfectly balanced" RX7 with an LS1. The RX7 locks the front brakes in every turn on a autox course and the nose points to the sky whenever he floors it. Regardless - what are your thoughts about a non BMW engine in a BMW?

Discuss.

[mattyb]

mate i think bms are more than just engines. the philosophy is apparent amongst all dynamics that create the vehicle. is its credibility violated with mods etc? i dont think so. however in syaing that i would not violate my car, but another yes.

[Paul in NZ]

if you put a non bmw engine is it a bmw,non bmw gearbox is it a bmw,non bmw suspensions is it a bmw.....where do you draw the lineLets face the engine is a fairly major component.I vote yes

[BM-BOY]

Huh? I'm getting deja vous...

[BigKriss]

if it looks like a BMW, it's a BMW. An engine from another manufacturer doesn't mean that much. Where do you draw the line? I don't know.

[mattyb]

dont worry mate happens all the time. its all friendly, we like a good educated debate every now and then! what happened on your first post was differant. that was people just being horrible. is that what u meant?

[mattyb]

hey kris, dont you think that at some of the bmw club days that some of the cars have so much work done to them that the bmw block is all thats left amongst all the other bits. remember at eastern creek there was the white 3 series with tha big rear spoiler and green stripes. not much left on it that was bm original.

[BigKriss]

Where do you cross the line when one car is another brand of car? I'm thinking now that if the chassis is made by the manufacturer, then that's what brand of car it is. At eastern creek there where some heavily modifided BMW's there Matt. Also Matt, how are you going to attempt to "not violate my car, but another yes". Are you coming to Cronulla on Sunday?

[Beez540]

btw.. is sould the same thing as soul?

[willobmw]

When it comes to Bimmers, I'm a purist. I'm a marked man on the E12 (First Fives) board because I get on people for wanting to create monster cars by replacing the 2.8 M30 motor with 3.5 motors and such. somebody last week wanted to install a 3.5 in a 2002. Now that's blasphemy. I don't mind getting the most out of the motor that is originally installed in the engine bay like turbo and supercharging. Some people just don't know when to quit. Usually the rest of the car is not up to snuff.
Willobmw(Going on 21 staight years as a BMWCCA PAID member)
1990 535i
1981 528i
1975 2002

[angrypancake]

I remember when some dude put a twin turbo supra engine in an e30 chassis and people bashed the **** out of him for doing that. I'd rather put a bmw engine in a non bmw than the other way around...

[Guapo]

Yes. Whenever you swap an engine not of the make into a car, it is no longer representative of the make. It simply changes the character of the car to such a degree that it really isn't the same car.

In a similar vein, there have been a couple of people to drop LS1's into Z32 300ZX's. Good power and torque to be sure, but now it sounds and accelerates like a Chevy. No more sound of the turbos spooling up, different exhaust note, no kick in the shorts when the boost comes on. Simply a different car.

[granit_silber]

This was started on another forum. The guy did an E30 M3 with an LS1. Then a guy posts with a "perfectly balanced" RX7 with an LS1. The RX7 locks the front brakes in every turn on a autox course and the nose points to the sky whenever he floors it. Regardless - what are your thoughts about a non BMW engine in a BMW?

Discuss.
As far as I'm concerned, the engine is the heart of any car. I once read an article in a sport compact mag about a guy who replaced the m30 in his e28 535 with the twin turbo Nissan (SRDET20?) engine because it was underpowered. I hate it! I don't have a problem with modding an engine to coax as much out of it as you can get, but once you transplant another into it forget it! (that is my problem with the "6-series" racing video and NASCAR in general. Why can it a Ford when it just a tubeframe and haus engine that Ford doesn't build?)

I guess that I feel that it was all designed to be run together and when you break that up you destory the essence of what that car was meant to be.
-ashley

[Jon K]

As far as I'm concerned, the engine is the heart of any car. I once read an article in a sport compact mag about a guy who replaced the m30 in his e28 535 with the twin turbo Nissan (SRDET20?) engine because it was underpowered. I hate it! I don't have a problem with modding an engine to coax as much out of it as you can get, but once you transplant another into it forget it! (that is my problem with the "6-series" racing video and NASCAR in general. Why can it a Ford when it just a tubeframe and haus engine that Ford doesn't build?)

I guess that I feel that it was all designed to be run together and when you break that up you destory the essence of what that car was meant to be.
-ashley

SR20DET

I am agreeing with everyone, but on bimmerforums there are guys raving about their LS1 RX7s that lock the brakes up in the front and shoot the nose in the air when accelerating. People are silly.

[DanH]

Do BMWs even have a sould to lose?

[Jay 535i]

IMHO, it depends on whether or not it ruins the BMW handling.

If it weighs about the same as the engine it replaces and preserves the 50:50 weight distribution, then I say it's still a BMW.

If it weighs more and shifts the weight to the front, then it's a joke.

That RX-7 think is a real larf, as the engine in that car is lighter and mounted lower and farther back than any other could be. I don't see how you could swap it out without killing that car's amazing handling.

[632 Regal]

whats a "sould?"

[peks]

if you sell your soul to buy a bmw is it sould?

[mattyb]

thats when changing engines without bothering about anything else is just plain stupid.

[mattyb]

my car dont need no violatin cause uts all good. but another yes means that if i could get one ,with out the drivetrain ,in good nic then im happy to violate it with a mutha of drivetrain. Cronulla eh, is there going to be pork flavoured ice cream? Sounds just like the beginning doesnt it. dont take your car mate. are u seriously thinking of going? are u going to get one of those love nulla- **** 111111 t shirts? I m staying away cause I think were next some how.this shits gonna move north if anywhere as weve had the same frigginn problems for years. Those lads at Cronulla arent friggin dreaming. theyve had to put up with this **** for long enough.

[scott540]

it's just wrong

[Booster]

I swap powerplants all the time . Usually within the same manufacturer,just uprated base power.
The purists statements are always the same waste of breathe to me. Its just beyond their thinking due often to a lack of applied skills and tenacity. Not meaning to flame them....to each his own.
BUT....."its your car,your time,your money".......THEIR opinion is best left inside their mouth in that case.:p
I think as long as someone FINISHES the swaps with safety and completeness in mind, so be it.
I'm doing an AWD Skyline drivetrain into an early Datsun 240-Z.....although its a Nissan into a Nissan, so its no real change up here except for uprated power etc.I was in City of Industry, California last week and they had just finished a odd swap there.
You'll soon see the RB26DETT twin turbo motor ( Skyline R34 Nissan)going into a 67 Mustang fastback I saw ,in the new F&F III movie and this of course has raised some eyebrows. At LEAST its an upgrade ...even to the built 427 engine that would have worked too.
I considered doing a V-12 into my fiver and installing two small T/3 turbo's just to keep her Bimmer. I've definatly got the skills and engineering ability to pull it off...so no big deal.Instead I'm going milder and turboing the stock 6 it came with.
So I'm sure the degree's of CHANGE...ie; brand of parts to brand of chasis....are the big "difficult pill to swallow" in these swaps. But in the end......your gonna do what you dream to do and thats that.Keep an open mind about what others accomplish. It most likely will make your clean stocker worth more in the end, somehow !!:p
.............Vinny

[Alexlind123]

I might do it if i had a 518i

[Jon K]

I swap powerplants all the time . Usually within the same manufacturer,just uprated base power.
The purists statements are always the same waste of breathe to me. Its just beyond their thinking due often to a lack of applied skills and tenacity. Not meaning to flame them....to each his own.
BUT....."its your car,your time,your money".......THEIR opinion is best left inside their mouth in that case.:p
I think as long as someone FINISHES the swaps with safety and completeness in mind, so be it.
I'm doing an AWD Skyline drivetrain into an early Datsun 240-Z.....although its a Nissan into a Nissan, so its no real change up here except for uprated power etc.I was in City of Industry, California last week and they had just finished a odd swap there.
You'll soon see the RB26DETT twin turbo motor ( Skyline R34 Nissan)going into a 67 Mustang fastback I saw ,in the new F&F III movie and this of course has raised some eyebrows. At LEAST its an upgrade ...even to the built 427 engine that would have worked too.
I considered doing a V-12 into my fiver and installing two small T/3 turbo's just to keep her Bimmer. I've definatly got the skills and engineering ability to pull it off...so no big deal.Instead I'm going milder and turboing the stock 6 it came with.
So I'm sure the degree's of CHANGE...ie; brand of parts to brand of chasis....are the big "difficult pill to swallow" in these swaps. But in the end......your gonna do what you dream to do and thats that.Keep an open mind about what others accomplish. It most likely will make your clean stocker worth more in the end, somehow !!:p
.............Vinny

I saw the mustang - if i were next to that thing at a light, i'd be really disappointed. That car needs a huge cubic inch pushrod... not na inline 6 turbo. I know its innovative, different, fast, what not, but its ruined the entire physical appearance of that car. It looks pissed off, it looks angry, and it looks like its gonna spit asphalt in your face...

but when yu hear a dampened 3.0L I6 exhaust note... you're like "wtf"

[Guapo]

I swap powerplants all the time . Usually within the same manufacturer,just uprated base power.
The purists statements are always the same waste of breathe to me. Its just beyond their thinking due often to a lack of applied skills and tenacity. Not meaning to flame them....to each his own.
BUT....."its your car,your time,your money".......THEIR opinion is best left inside their mouth in that case.:p
I think as long as someone FINISHES the swaps with safety and completeness in mind, so be it.
I'm doing an AWD Skyline drivetrain into an early Datsun 240-Z.....although its a Nissan into a Nissan, so its no real change up here except for uprated power etc.I was in City of Industry, California last week and they had just finished a odd swap there.
You'll soon see the RB26DETT twin turbo motor ( Skyline R34 Nissan)going into a 67 Mustang fastback I saw ,in the new F&F III movie and this of course has raised some eyebrows. At LEAST its an upgrade ...even to the built 427 engine that would have worked too.
I considered doing a V-12 into my fiver and installing two small T/3 turbo's just to keep her Bimmer. I've definatly got the skills and engineering ability to pull it off...so no big deal.Instead I'm going milder and turboing the stock 6 it came with.
So I'm sure the degree's of CHANGE...ie; brand of parts to brand of chasis....are the big "difficult pill to swallow" in these swaps. But in the end......your gonna do what you dream to do and thats that.Keep an open mind about what others accomplish. It most likely will make your clean stocker worth more in the end, somehow !!:p
.............Vinny


The question wasn't whether it's a neat car and a lot of fun to drive or not, simply if it has lost it's "soul". To me, the soul of a car is a combination of it's engine, it's handling, and it's overall feel. Changing such a major aspect of those makes it "different".

[McWatters]

German car = german engine.

I have nothing else to say.

Cheers

J.McWatters

[FiveOJester]

There's something to be said for having an engine that is reliable, cheap to make powerful, easy to work on and cheap to maintain/rebuild. About the only engines that fall into that category here in the States are American V8s. RX-7 Twin Turbo Engines (93-95) don't last worth a crap and are expensive to rebuild. If you want an engine that will last under abuse (ie track duty) I see no reason to not to throw in an LS1. The engine is only about 30lb heaver than the Twin Turbo Wankel. Some corner weight numbers from a guy who did an LS1 swap:


1993 touring model 5-speed
Before
LF 729 RF 695
LR 705 RR 692
Total--2821lbs

After swap 1999 ls1/t56 trans ac and power steering
LF 748 RF 717
LR 683 RR 700
Total weight 2848lbs

Weight gain only 27lbs

All you have to do is run a lightweight battery ( what is installed in my car) or move the battery to the rear to negate the miniscule weight gain, if so desired. People don't think the rotary motor + turbos + intercoolers, etc. is almost as heavy as a LS1, but it is.

You get one of the best handling sports cars of all times with a bombproof engine that is cheap to rebuild and is capable of large performance gains (400+ rwhp without forced induction). Almost seems like the perfect car to me.

The car's soul? Who cares! It's a car, not a human being. I'd have a lot more fun driving it knowing that the engine in the car isn't a ticking time bomb.

[angrypancake]

I tried to sell my buddy's soul on ebay when we were in high school. The bidding got over 500 dollars but Ebay sent us the diplomatic version of "you guys are ****in idiots" and then they shut down the auction