Starter motor makes strange noise, then smoke

[EdNL]

Hi,

Yesterday, my starter motor would run, but it wouldn't rotate the engine.
I thought perhaps the voltage was too low because of the cold weather, so I recharged the battery.

I retried today and again it made the high-whining-noise but it didn't rotate the engine and then there was a small "explosion" and a lot of whitish smoke came out of the hood.

I ran to get the extuingisher, but that wasn't neccessary luckily.

Any idea what might have happened?

I think I'll just have to replace the starter motor?
Luckily the M40 starter motors are identical, so I can easily find one on the stockyards.

thanks in advance,
Ed,
the Netherlands

[rob101]

A similar think happened to me once in a Hyundai Sonata, It went to start and nothing happened but a puff of white smoke seemed to come out of the hood. then the Motor was stuffed.

Turned out oil had leaked into the starter, shorted it and fried it.

[EdNL]

Rob, thanks for your reply. I guess that's what happened.
Today I got a startmotor from an E30 BMW 316i (M40).

Any tips on how I could best remove the startmotor from the engine. I know it's only two bolts. It's hidden behind the intake manifold of the M50B25.

Thanks!

[dacoyote]

Rob, thanks for your reply. I guess that's what happened.
Today I got a startmotor from an E30 BMW 316i (M40).

Any tips on how I could best remove the startmotor from the engine. I know it's only two bolts. It's hidden behind the intake manifold of the M50B25.

Thanks!

The Bently way to do it is to pull the intake.....

[EdNL]

The Bently way to do it is to pull the intake.....

I was afraid Bentley was gonna say that. I will try tomorrow with the intake manifold still in place. I'll report here it it worked.

Ed

[JD525IA]

I have the same car/motor, but in a 93 model.

I searched for help here but no one knew any good tips.

I hope you haven't done it yet because I have a few for ya.

The Bentley basically has a short procedure for R&R of the starter, as you know. The bitch of it is that you have to go to the head removal procedure first:( The Bentley should rewrite the procedure so that it is more clear.

I wasn't about to drain the radiator to change a starter. So, here is what I did:

First, disconnect battery negative terminal.

Removed the two plastic engine covers and coil pack wires (laid cabling on windshield). There is a ground wire on the front top of the engine that has to be disconnected.

Removed the duct between the MAF and the throttle body. The manual says to remove the two hoses the from the air filter intake box to the throttle body. I did not do this (and accidently broke one of the plastic thermostat leads - $59 from the stealer, FYI). What I should have done was just remove the bolt that holds the thermostat in the filter box, pull the thermostat out of the box, and that would have kept the entire cooling system sealed and undisturbed. Now I know.

Removed the intake temp sensor connector wires from the intake manifold.

Remove the fuel rail by first removing the two bolts and then loosening the 6 retaining clips between the rail and the injectors.

Remove all (7?) bolts from the top of the intake manifold.

Remove the vacuum return line from the front top of the engine.

Carefully lift the intake manifold up and off the head. I used some rags to protect the manifold from the rest of the components and a wire hanger to hold it up above so I could see the starter. There are some hoses and brackets that need to be relocated or diconnected, but nothing tough. Careful not to break any cooked, brittle vac hoses. This is a good time to check for them since you can hardly see them at any other time.

Also, DO NOT drop anything into the six intake ports! Intake valves are clearly visible at this point.

Remove the wiring from the starter. Remove the two mounting nut/bolts (180 degrees apart). The bolts are male torx (size ?) and come in from the rear - like over the tranny. I just slid them back about a half inch and did not remove them completely.

Slide the starter directly forward and it comes out. There is one short peg on the top of the flywheel casing that ensures proper alignment. It prevents you from just lifting straight up.

Clean up a bit and reinstall new starter in reverse proceedure. One part of the Bentley that is so very correct is to grease the **** out of the gear spline on the starter before putting it in. I think that my old starter had slowly lost lubrication over the years and thats the biggest reason the gear wouldn't retract quickly after I let go of the key. Nice grinding sound!

FYI - Rebuilding these Bosch starters is not all that hard. I got one off Ebay for $20 and stripped & repainted the casing, dismanteled the body and solenoid assembly, cleaned and lube the internal gears with a high temp gear lube (graphite based) and reassembled in under an hour. They're not that tough!

Good luck and let me know if this helps or if you need any other assistance.

JD

[632 Regal]

nice work JD!

[dacoyote]

Nice... I will move this to engine / drive train later...

[632 Regal]

your a moderator???
Nice... I will move this to engine / drive train later...

[dacoyote]

your a moderator???

for engine and drive train... yeah

[632 Regal]

copy (not move) it there now before it gets all clogged up with them post hores, you will still be able to reply here tho.

[dacoyote]

copy (not move) it there now before it gets all clogged up with them post hores, you will still be able to reply here tho.

I must be stupid... I don't see a "copy" choice anymore... just move

[dacoyote]

I must be stupid... I don't see a "copy" choice anymore... just move

Yeah.. I am stupid... I found it...

[632 Regal]

okay, I copied it there for you.
I must be stupid... I don't see a "copy" choice anymore... just move

[dacoyote]

okay, I copied it there for you.

now it's in there twice.... I don't have rights to delete

[632 Regal]

let me check it out

[dacoyote]

let me check it out
thx

[632 Regal]

well I guess its just gonna be in there twice... nothing like communication man.

[dacoyote]

well I guess its just gonna be in there twice... nothing like communication man.

I posted that I was stupid and had found it.... what more did you want?? a handle delieved letter

[632 Regal]

id like a big M if you can get it here by noon please.

[dacoyote]

id like a big M if you can get it here by noon please.

I will give you a big M..... google for goatse....

[632 Regal]

ackkkk
I will give you a big M..... google for goatse....

[dacoyote]

ackkkk

There are things far worse the goatse in the dark places of the internet....

[DaCan23]

LOLOL I think your post #11 was the cloggin post, the rest are just overflow now.... get out the plunger


copy (not move) it there now before it gets all clogged up with them post hores, you will still be able to reply here tho.

[dacoyote]

LOLOL I think your post #11 was the cloggin post, the rest are just overflow now.... get out the plunger

Yeah.. the thread is a little post whored... and is in the twice... it looks good

[EdNL]

I have the same car/motor, but in a 93 model.

Hi JD,

Thanks a lot for your tips.
I managed to remove the startmotor without removing the intake mainfold. I moved the car up and working from below, we (my father luckily helps me out) removed it from below the car. Not an easy job, but it's do-able with the right instruments.

Besides the two bolts there was also a third one: A bracket was attached to the startmotor and that was attached to the engine. It took some time to figure that out.

Now, we're gonna build in the startmotor that came from the BMW 316i (M40). We removed the bracket from the M50 startmotor and attached it to the replacement start motor.

Let's hope we'll have it all running in about an hour!

I'll let you know how it works out,
Ed, the Netherlands

[EdNL]

Let's hope we'll have it all running in about an hour!

I'll let you know how it works out

Well, we managed to replace the startmotor. I reinstalled everything and turned the key. Alas, exactly the same symptom: The startmotor would run, but the engine wouldn't move.

This could mean two things:
* An electrical problem. The startmotor doesn't receive the right input and hence the solenoid doesn't work correctly yielding a startmotor running in the void.

* Mechnical problem. A broken tooth in the starterwheel on the engine

Any (other) ideas?

Another question: Can a startmotor die on you when it runs without resistance?

Thanks!

Ed, the Netherlands

[Javier]

as a whole. Also when you removed the starter, did you find missing teeth in the engine wheel?

Have you checked voltage reaching the starter terminal 50 when you turn key (check it at pin 11 (http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/electrical/e36_reset_service_lights.html) of Diagnostic connector).

Also voltage at the terminal 30 (huge one with the thick wire) permanently?

Starter should not die by running free.

Javier

[Jon K]

Also check the polarity of the connections. Nothing like installing the starter backwards.. did that on a Ford Ranger