One or two cylinders not working in the morning

[t_marat]

As in the title, early in the morning, after just starting the engine, one or two cylinders are not working. I say not working because the idle is rough. After the engine warms up a little (towards the end of the blue zone on the gauge), it smoothes out. The temperatures during the night is about -20C, in the morning about -15, -16C.

What might be the culprit? I changed the sparks about two weeks ago to Beru Ultra. Beru website says these are exactly for my BMW.

[smcgowan]

The Hydraulic Lifters. Until the oil fully pumps them up the engine the valves will not be opened all the way and will run rough. One other sign is the valve chatter when first cranked. Mine did it until I switched to a thinner oil. It also reduced valve chatter when the engine is first cranked. Since you stated the outside temp at being negative. I'd bet this is your case. What oil are you running?

[Bill R.]

sometimes in the morning.. a couple of pepsi's usually takes care of that though.. In your case it could be the hydraulic valve adjusters not pumping up because the oil is too thick when cold. Switching to a 0w40 synthetic mobil one should help that if thats the case. If that is the case the valves will be tapping louder until it warms up also.. Otherwise on some cars it seems like the injectors are plugged up or stuck until the engine runs for a few minutes too. Running a couple of cans of good injector cleaner through should help if thats the case. It can also be vacum leaks at the intake manifold or somewhere in line from the mass air flow sensor to the engine. To test that you'd need to spray some throttle body cleaner around all the areas that it could leak such as manifold gaskets throttle body gaskets, vacum hoses etc with the engine running and cold when its missing, if it suddenly picks up the cylinder after you spray an area then you know where its at.


As in the title, early in the morning, after just starting the engine, one or two cylinders are not working. I say not working because the idle is rough. After the engine warms up a little (towards the end of the blue zone on the gauge), it smoothes out. The temperatures during the night is about -20C, in the morning about -15, -16C.

What might be the culprit? I changed the sparks about two weeks ago to Beru Ultra. Beru website says these are exactly for my BMW.

[t_marat]

What type of throtle body cleaners do you use?

[t_marat]

The oil I am using is semisynthetic, 15W-30, Esso.

I was told by the mechanic 0W-40 is too liquid for my car. That it will "consume" a lot of that oil.

[SRR2]

15W is pretty heavy for the temperatures you're seeing, not to mention that it's part dino oil. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine that lifters are the problem, though that diagnosis would be a lot more solid if you'd have posted what model car and engine you have. Unless your engine has a lot of wear on it, and/or you have reason to believe that oil consumption could become a problem, you might want to give M-1 0W-40 a shot. That's what I use in the Porsche and I can tell you that there's no hydraulic tappet problem at those low temperatures.

Those "Beru" plugs. You sure that BMW lists those? Where is the gap set? When I had the 535 (M30) it didn't idle well at all unless the gap was .035 or so. That was with Bosch single platinum plugs.

[t_marat]

My engine and car details are given in my signature.
here is a link to beru website page listing Beru Ultra for my car, 520i 24V.
It has two contacts on opposite sides. Manual lists spark plugs for my car to be non-adjustable, but Beru site lists them to be 0.9mm.
Is it safe to try to adjust gaps on plugs with two side electrodes?

[t_marat]

Installation Information: Recommendation - When changing the spark plugs on vehicles with connector ignition coils, please replace the connector and use spark plug connector grease (ZKF 01 - Order No. 0 890 300 029) to fit the connector.
Tightening Torque [Nm] 25
Port Type SAE
Thread Length [mm] 19
Thread Size M 14x1,25
Spanner Size 16 mm
Spark Plug 2 - Earthed Electrode
Electrode Gap [mm] 0,9

What does "Spark Plug 2 - Earthed Electrode" mean? While putting in the new spark plugs I saw a connector for earthing (I guess). That should be connected to the second spark plug? It was connected to the first plug (if counting from left), and I left it there.

[t_marat]

A link describing Beru Ultra:
http://www.beru.com/english/produkte/zuendkerzen/ultra.php

The thing is it shows it to be with just one electrode. The ones I bought have two side electrodes. Is it possible that the image is simply a generic one?

Ultra X plug picture shows 4 side electrodes.

I am starting to think mine are fakes.

[Kalevera]

Those "Beru" plugs. You sure that BMW lists those? Where is the gap set? When I had the 535 (M30) it didn't idle well at all unless the gap was .035 or so. That was with Bosch single platinum plugs.

Steve, we beat this one into the ground last week. No fact or logic did any good :(

[t_marat]

BMW does not list Beru; but Beru supplies other things. I read about spark cables and many other staff to other automotive companies.



Steve, we beat this one into the ground last week. No fact or logic did any good :(
So Beru is actually a reputable company. I did not believe the problem was due to sparks.
I looked all over the Beru website but did not find a "Beru Ultra" with two electrodes. I think the ones I have are fakes.

[Bill R.]

2 electrode plug from beru, bmw uses a 2 electrode plug on the m50's so beru is providing the plug that bmw calls for. I would not thing its a fake based on the electrodes. You haven't yet stated whether it taps loudly in the morning when its missing until it warms up, that will tell alot about whether the problem i HVA related or something else



BMW does not list Beru; but Beru supplies other things. I read about spark cables and many other staff to other automotive companies.



So Beru is actually a reputable company. I did not believe the problem was due to sparks.
I looked all over the Beru website but did not find a "Beru Ultra" with two electrodes. I think the ones I have are fakes.

[632 Regal]

hello?

[dacoyote]

hello?

Hello... how are you today... I am well.....

[632 Regal]

good, have some work to do then I can do some serious posting.

[DaCan23]

lol... I bet you can't be grand master by the weekend... next week definitely..


Hello... how are you today... I am well.....

[dacoyote]

lol... I bet you can't be grand master by the weekend... next week definitely..

That almost sounds like a dare...

[DaCan23]

I double dog dare ya


That almost sounds like a dare...

[632 Regal]

remember to sharpen your skates before you start.
http://www.dollclothesstore.com/products/SHOE%20STORE/NEW%20PICTURES/MT-734-B.jpg

[dacoyote]

Those are some small feet..... do they represent something else jeff?

[dacoyote]

I double dog dare ya

I only got what.. 76 to go... thats only 40 posts a day

[632 Regal]

Evans brain?
Those are some small feet..... do they represent something else jeff?

[dacoyote]

I only got what.. 76 to go... thats only 40 posts a day

Make that 74 :-)

[dacoyote]

Evans brain?

not the answer I was looking for... but after reviewing it, "Evans brain" is a valid answer

[632 Regal]

mann its snowin pretty good now, think i'll get some food, back in a few

not the answer I was looking for... but after reviewing it, "Evans brain" is a valid answer

[dacoyote]

mann its snowin pretty good now, think i'll get some food, back in a few

darn.... it's suppost to snow here later

[632 Regal]

heres a picture of our weather

http://www.tideblue.com/munz/near-whiteout.jpg

[dacoyote]

heres a picture of our weather

http://www.tideblue.com/munz/near-whiteout.jpg

Nice.....

[t_marat]

2 electrode plug from beru, bmw uses a 2 electrode plug on the m50's so beru is providing the plug that bmw calls for. I would not thing its a fake based on the electrodes. You haven't yet stated whether it taps loudly in the morning when its missing until it warms up, that will tell alot about whether the problem i HVA related or something else

I don't think I have enough experience to tell if it taps loudly. But it seems to me that there is no difference in engine noise while its cold and warmed up.

I changed the plugs and put the old Denso ones back. When the engine is started at first, it idles smoother, but after about a minute idle becomes a little more rough (the same as Beru Ultra). Those old Denso plugs look very bad. Another thing, after reaching operating temperatures, engine starts pinging when I accelerate a little faster. When its cold it does not. I did not have this pinging with Beru plugs. Picture of the Beru plug, exactly the one that I currently have. Even the made in France text http://www.partsbase.nl/ShowImage.asp?ID=Z14
Below are images of the Beru plugs after they were taken from the engine. I think the gasket on the cylinder head needs replacing, as there was some oil (a drip or so) on the some of the sparks.

[Bill R.]

you have a vacum leak or something else causing the misfire not the hydraulic lifters. If oil is getting on top of the plugs from the valve cover seals then that will contribute to the problem as well.






I don't think I have enough experience to tell if it taps loudly. But it seems to me that there is no difference in engine noise while its cold and warmed up.

I changed the plugs and put the old Denso ones back. When the engine is started at first, it idles smoother, but after about a minute idle becomes a little more rough (the same as Beru Ultra). Those old Denso plugs look very bad. Another thing, after reaching operating temperatures, engine starts pinging when I accelerate a little faster. When its cold it does not. I did not have this pinging with Beru plugs. Picture of the Beru plug, exactly the one that I currently have. Even the made in France text http://www.partsbase.nl/ShowImage.asp?ID=Z14
Below are images of the Beru plugs after they were taken from the engine. I think the gasket on the cylinder head needs replacing, as there was some oil (a drip or so) on the some of the sparks.

[t_marat]

you have a vacum leak or something else causing the misfire not the hydraulic lifters. If oil is getting on top of the plugs from the valve cover seals then that will contribute to the problem as well.

What is a vacum leak? How can it be fixed? Can it be the reason why one or two cylinders do not work in the morning, while cold?

Ebay.de http://cgi.ebay.de/4xZuendkerze-BMW-3-er-5-er-7-er-8-er-und-Z3_W0QQitemZ4602579339QQcategoryZ61701QQssPageName ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Beru Ultras are exactly in a packaging like that. But they have two contacts, not one.

[t_marat]

Looking at the plugs it seems like they all were working. Any reason to think of a coil pack failure?

[632 Regal]

it is possible but as Bill says check for vacum leaks first.
Looking at the plugs it seems like they all were working. Any reason to think of a coil pack failure?

[t_marat]

OK, but how do I check it? There were posts about spraying it with carb cleaner. But the thing is what parts should I spray? How do I locate that vacum (vacum lines)?

[632 Regal]

check all vacum hoses for loseness at the connections, for cracks, dry hard hoses etc. Then check the intake system for loose or cracked tubing and other things that dont look right.
OK, but how do I check it? There were posts about spraying it with carb cleaner. But the thing is what parts should I spray? How do I locate that vacum (vacum lines)?

[t_marat]

You are from USA? Still not sleeping?

[t_marat]

If its vacum; why does it not work only while the engine is cold. After warming up, all the cylinders work, at least no vibration, idle is smooth (very little roughness, cyclical).

[632 Regal]

well on my car the gaskets shrunk in the cold, yours may be different but worth looking into.

Yes USA, no clue

[t_marat]

I looked at the hoses, but I could not see anything bad. There was also no hissing sound, as if the air is being sucked in. Though, I am no expert.

Car stays on the outside, there is no garage (I live in a block of flats). In the evening its about -20C (maybe more). This morning it was -19C. After about 3-5 minutes all the cylinders started working normal.

[Kalevera]

Here's what to do:

Get a can of intake cleaner (may also be called "throttle body cleaner") and with the engine running/doing the misfire thing, spray it around all gaskets, the PCV fitting (coming out of the valve cover) and all vacuum lines. The theory here is that the cleaner will temporarily seal the vacuum, and the idle will smooth out.

I had a 3/91 525 on Friday that was an *extremely hard starter*. Took me 10 minutes, wearing down the battery, and a booster pack to get it moving with a light dusting of snow on the ground/freezing temps. I replaced the customer installed Bosch Platinum +4s with F8LDCRs and replaced the PCV fitting, along with the two rubber lines to the intake and evap valve. The car now starts, runs, and idles as it should.

best, whit

[t_marat]

Any place I could source those F8LDCRs? I see a lot of bosch sparks on Ebay, but none of them is F8LDCR. There are Super4 spark plugs, not platinum. What do you think of it?

[Bill R.]

correct beru plugs for your car unless your particular beru plugs are damaged such as cracked insulator or dropped while installing and now damaged internally. This should be seen though when you remove the plugs and compare the appearance of each one. Whit has it partially correct on the intake sealing with throttle body spray cleaner... but its not so much to seal the leak that you spray the suspected areas where air could get sucked in. It s because the throttle body spray will burn like gasoline so your richening up the mixture at the points where its leaking..in other words adding more fuel to the extra air thats being sucked in so it will not misfire... The rpm change and the engine smoothing out are indicators that this is happening.. many years ago people used to squirt oil on suspected leaks and then watch for rpm changes in the motor and they would watch the exhaust looking for blue white puffs of smoke indicating that the oil was getting sucked in and burning.. only this was messy and when catalytic converters came along it got much harder to see burning oil in the exhaust.


Any place I could source those F8LDCRs? I see a lot of bosch sparks on Ebay, but none of them is F8LDCR. There are Super4 spark plugs, not platinum. What do you think of it?