Formula for 250hp 535i

[mholbrook]

I'm wondering what mods to get to about 240-250 hp out of an 89 535i.

Current mods I have are:

J.C. Conforti Chip
Opened up the air box for more cold air
Hartge exhaust

Planned mods are:

Fuel Pressure regulator
Mustang 19# Bosch injectors
New spark plug wires, cap and rotor

Not horsepower related mods:

17" style 32 wheels 8's 235/45/17 and 9's 255/40/17
Sachs suspension kit
M5 front sway bar, 20mm M5 Touring rear bar

Not installed:
Koni Adjustable front shocks
3.64 LSD differential

Any suggestions for more power or better handling appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

[Brian C.]

Bruno's website has all sorts of goodies to learn about.

Here's his recipe for power..... (http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/upgrade/Recipe.htm)

Good stuff to know!

Brian C.
'95 525ia

[MikeV]

Yank engine, replace with Supra TT driveline, add manual boost controller(s) and run at 15 psi or so..... should get you well into the deep-300 HP range. :)

Seriously, I think 250+ will be difficult with just bolt-on mods.... unless you bolt on a supercharger. I assume you mean 250 to the wheels?

[Brandon J]

You might wanna try Bruno's MAF, Schrick cam, extrude honed intake, headers, bored throttle body, port and polish head, port match intake and exhaust, and fuel injectors.

That should get you there.

[Craig]

:D

http://store4.yimg.com/I/cheapturbo_1781_43515

[Sheqel]

You should have around the 240-250hp@fly right now. If you want it at the wheels, look at getting a diff, throttle bodies, cams, port and polish... and possible a bolt on supercharger kit

[Bruno]

Yep.. I think I should be close to 240... the supercharger will bring me to 300+

The hotter cam will come later, the bored throttle body will come this month.

[Craig]

30 additional horsepower sure sounds like a lot. Anyone ever actually dyno this stuff? Or are these numbers all estimates?

I'll have my car at the dyno pretty soon, it's all stock except for a BavAuto chip installed by the PO. I'm curious to see if the chip made any difference, and this should at least give some proof.

[Robbo]

I think the chip will give approx 15 extra usable BHP, what exactly do you mean by "opened up air box"?

Do you mean you have a cold air intake from outside the engine bay to the intake?

Be careful that you aren't just letting engine bay ambient (hotter) temp air into the intake.

The exhaust is probably only giving you a different exhaust note - not extra power.

To get an increase from standard 209bhp (crank) to 250bhp you need to increase output by 19.62%, this can easily be done by saving your money from exhaust, chip and air mods and using it towards a supercharger kit - 1/2 a bar boost (fairly mild) will give you about 40 - 45% increase in output (300bhp) without compromising engine reliability (too much!)

[Bruno]

30 more HP is easy to get on the 535i.

I will dyno my car in a couple of month.

[MikeV]

I'm curious of the #s flying around here... I can't believe it would be easy to reach 250 at the wheels on a car that is stock <220 at the flywheel... or am I missing something here?

[mholbrook]

Air box modification. At the bottom of the airbox is a horn that goes from the airbox to the cold air area behind the right headlight. There is a plastic shield behind the headlight that has a 4" hole in it. The horn that goes from the airbox to this hole necks down from about 3" to about 1 3/4". I removed the horn and put in a straight through tube from the hole to the bottom of the airbox. No underhood "hot" engine air into the intake.

I doubt the exhaust is giving much if any increase. My original exhaust was getting rusty and had a couple small holes in it. Going to the Hartge (supersprint) exhaust is lighter however by about 20 pounds at least.

I'm just guessing that a supercharger for an E34 is going to be at least $2500. Plus you would have to buy a custom chip for it anyway. Turbo same story unless you could get the 745 euro system and install it from a wreck.

What I'm looking for is basically Bruno's recipe for power. I'm pretty sure that I'll be close to 240 hp with the modifications I'm doing and the total for these modifications do not come close to the cost of a supercharger etc. I think the M30 has a pretty high compression ratio for forced induction.

Mike

[Craig]

240hp would be about 200 rwhp, assuming a 17% loss (which may be optimistic? Not sure with the BMW what that loss number is).

I think I'll start a dyno thread, just see what kind of numbers people are getting.

[mholbrook]

I think we need to talk about horsepower converted to flywheel HP. Otherwise, we need to consider that a 535 doesn't have 208 hp but some lesser number. In this case, 250 would not be achievable with bolt ons. However, if we are talking flywheel HP then it is possible. When I started this thread, I was thinking from 208 to 250 at the flywheel since that is what the stock 208 number comes from.

Does this make any sense?

Mike Holbrook

[Craig]

True.

However, I like to think in rwhp when talking about stuff like this since that's what really counts (and can be measured). So when someone says "250hp" my mind is thinking "about 205rwhp" instead. :)

[Cacatfish]

250 whp would be around 300 at the crank. To give some reference, a hot 3.2 M3 motor with Euro HFM, Schrick cams, exhaust, injectors and chip is only at about 295hp at crank, and that motor starts out with 240 crank hp and 24 valves for more breathability. The m30 is limited in potential by being a sohc 12 valver, so beyond the simple cam, headers and port-polish, seems like you might as well go FI.
Big NA power is expensive ala Dinan stroker kits and so on.
E34Biturbo manages to get some incredible power out of his turboed M30 though. Something like 650hp (!!).
As far as c:r, many M3s run SC or turbo at 11:1, so it's very doable and the m30 sure seems to be a stout critter!

[Craig]

250 whp would be around 300 at the crank.

Yeah, that's a pretty potent engine making that kind of power, without forced induction or a stroker kit there isn't really any way an M30 is going to get near that N/A.

I think the original poster was asking about 250 flywheel, at least that's the assumption I'm making.

[BennyM]

Awesome. Now if only Bruno could accomplish this with an M50, I'd be making a trip up north for sure.

[donati]

Would installing a complete S38 head and cambox be "bolt on", and add substantial HP?

[Unregistered]

it gets arround 280 horses with a chip and some mods i can get it up to 310-320.

[winfred]

back in the day (70s i beleve), mother bmw's factory racing program extracted from a 3.5 normally asperated m30 435-450hp in the csl's, big cams lotsa compression mechanical injection and lotsa port work, i think 250-270 would be easy with a stock short block, just electronics and head work, with exhaust work to round out the mods

[jplacson]

mini-hijack: 520im (M20) ... stock is 129HP ... would like to bring it closer to 200HP. Aside from a chip, what else would bump it up? Supercharger not an option since none are available here... importing would be way too expensive on taxes & shipping.

[winfred]

drop in a 525 m20, 168hp us revs to 6200 has 168lb of torque, and chip it and raise it about 10hp and get a 6900 redline. it will atach to all of your accessorys and tranny

[MikeV]

Get Mark to whip up a 94+ octane chip..... that might be the best bang for your buck. 8)

[535ise]

Air box modification. At the bottom of the airbox is a horn that goes from the airbox to the cold air area behind the right headlight. There is a plastic shield behind the headlight that has a 4" hole in it. The horn that goes from the airbox to this hole necks down from about 3" to about 1 3/4". I removed the horn and put in a straight through tube from the hole to the bottom of the airbox. No underhood "hot" engine air into the intake.



I've done the same to my air box with a 4 inch pipe.

Click on this link for a picture,i've used the code's with the link but it's not displaying the picture ?????

[IMG]http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=4c3b67bc-5000-458c-27d0-665b53c36fa9&size=

[MO525]

Truth be told, the MOST cost-effective route would be a small shot of nitrous.
And wipe all those "it'll blow your engine apart" falacies out of your head.

Use it right, per manufacturer's recommendations and you'll get YEARS and YEARS of enjoyment out of it.
Here are a few options to make the install seamless and effortless:


I've used it for MANY years with NO problems on American Carbureted and American Fuel Injected engines.

It can be done and for a LOT LESS than the mountain of bolt-ons you've listed and NOT affect reliability one iota when you're not using it.
AND....always remember this....you'll be driving a stock, reliable BMW engine the entire time you're not "on the spray".

And when you decide to sell the car?
You can remove it in an hour and no one is the wiser....unlike the bolt-ons you mentioned.
Me? I'd be scared off by a mess of "hot rod" parts on a Beemer if I were a potential buyer.

Here are a couple system options to make life with Nitrous effortless:
Electric Remote Bottle valve-so you don't have to get out and into the trunk to open the bottle.
Automatic Bottle Heater and gauge to keep Nitrous at perfect operating pressure.


Just my 2 cents.

[jplacson]

Thanks, that probably will be what I settle for. Winfred, BMW engines aren't exactly falling out of the sky over here! hehehe... and I want a little more HP, but don't want the fuel consumption hit of a larger engine. I just want a little more torque on lower rpms... for the stop lights. :lol:

[Deke NorCal]

Turbo anyone?

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com (http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/index.html)

[jplacson]

WOW! For that price I'd rather go with an ESS supercharger kit.

[MikeV]

Turbo anyone?

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com (http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/index.html)

That is actually, dare I say it, reasonably priced.

[Deke NorCal]

I think the intercooled kit will be around 375 HP.. so Ya that price is reasonable especially for a BMW.

[MikeV]

I think the intercooled kit will be around 375 HP.. so Ya that price is reasonable especially for a BMW.
Of course, there's always the option of selling the car and taking the $5K for the kit and finding an M5.... ;)

[Robbo]

Of course, there's always the option of selling the car and taking the $5K for the kit and finding an M5.... ;)

Or finding a Bi turbo........

[Unregistered]

i guess the trick is to find either one that hasn't been bagged or thrashed by a youngster :D


Or finding a Bi turbo........

[sneekens]

any results from bruno? any actual N/A 250Hp m30 with the dyno results? i have a 535i and would be interested if all of the said recipe for power would really reach 250hp. :)

[Bruno]

any results from bruno? any actual N/A 250Hp m30 with the dyno results? i have a 535i and would be interested if all of the said recipe for power would really reach 250hp. :)

Wow, I sold my E34 so I wont be able to tell how much HP I had on it.

I am now running away from N/A upgrades, too much money for not enough HP. My race car engine cost me 6000 US and at the end I only ended up with 80HP more than stock...
On the 635csi race car I am going the turbo route, simple, reliable and fast.

[Ross]

I'll be curious to know how the turbo effects your driving style. You are a road racer, right?

[Bruno]

I'll be curious to know how the turbo effects your driving style. You are a road racer, right?

Very similar actually, the turbo is smooth and gradual, not like a Renault 5 turbo.
I drove Dave's 535i on the track, and it was not different than driving my 535i at the time. I didn't drive his 635csi turbo yet.

[sneekens]

having an all stock m30 engine, how much boost is needed to SAFELY gain from a TIC set-up? how many RWHP??

[Bruno]

having an all stock m30 engine, how much boost is needed to SAFELY gain from a TIC set-up? how many RWHP??
FROM THE TCD Website:
e34 535i Stage 1

Name: e34 535i Stage 1
Description: Expect 280rwhp/290rwtq from a modest 8/9psi and our turbo exhaust system.

Technical details/dyno sheets and more pictures forth coming in the next few weeks.

Price: $3,875.00
Shipping Weight: 100

The plan on the race car is: 60lb injectors, custom piping, TCD manifold, exhaust, ARP bolts where I can, Turbosmart bits, AIR/AIR intercooler and ... 14lb of boost on 8.5:1 compression rebuilt M30B35.

[sneekens]

FROM THE TCD Website:
e34 535i Stage 1

Name: e34 535i Stage 1
Description: Expect 280rwhp/290rwtq from a modest 8/9psi and our turbo exhaust system.

Technical details/dyno sheets and more pictures forth coming in the next few weeks.

Price: $3,875.00
Shipping Weight: 100

The plan on the race car is: 60lb injectors, custom piping, TCD manifold, exhaust, ARP bolts where I can, Turbosmart bits, AIR/AIR intercooler and ... 14lb of boost on 8.5:1 compression rebuilt M30B35.


WOW!!! 280 rwhp @8psi sounds really great! i'll wait for those dyno sheets and pics! fuel reg and injectors stock too?

[winfred]

i have a buddy with a e28 that started with a tcd stage 1 and then staged 2'd it and now were in the process of megasquirting it

[Bruno]

WOW!!! 280 rwhp @8psi sounds really great! i'll wait for those dyno sheets and pics! fuel reg and injectors stock too?

Best would be to contact TCd and see what they have, the E28 guys are big on the turbo kit.