The focus of evil in automotive design

[Gayle]

Link to blogg in which Chris Bangle, head of BMW design, is roundly criticized by Mickey Kaus for his opinions which Kaus says are resulting in ugly cars. (Video is about 7 minutes long)

Bangle believes design follows tool making technology and architecture. Kaus believes Bangle is violating our geneticly based preferences for cars that look like women.

http://bloggingheads.tv/?id=48&tid=122

[onewhippedpuppy]

What is their opinion of the recent smattering of retro designs? Like or hate them, at least Bangle's designs are distinctive, and won't be mistaken for anything else. I wasn't certain at first, but I've actually began to like them.

[Gayle]

What is their opinion of the recent smattering of retro designs? Like or hate them, at least Bangle's designs are distinctive, and won't be mistaken for anything else. I wasn't certain at first, but I've actually began to like them.

I never like BMW design changes when they first come out but the grow on me after a while. I don't think Kaus shares our opinion though.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

follow more of the Japanese automakers direction leaning towards the
Rolling hemorrhoid look with over the top lighting and lines

[HDhandyman]

I couldn't agree more with Mickey Maus. Miny's Headlights are critical to the design. Why trade the roundness of a hot little Mausy ass for a shark fin. Oh how I long to re-embrace the bold asthetic cheddary lines of the DisnE28.

Besides, that shark fin looks so much like "A Passat's Life", what a throw-back.

[Gayle]

I couldn't agree more with Mickey Maus. Miny's Headlights are critical to the design. Why trade the roundness of a hot little Mausy ass for a shark fin. Oh how I long to re-embrace the bold asthetic cheddary lines of the DisnE28.

Besides, that shark fin looks so much like "A Passat's Life", what a throw-back.

LOL

Actually I think the shark fin bmws have a more masculine essence. I have heard one of our forums finest describe the e34 touring as being like a beautiful woman.

[F4Phantom]

I dont know much about the designer inside BMW but I have put a lot of thought into cars like most of you. My dad had an 86 535i when it was new, back then BMW was a very rare car here. He actually got it 2 years old and still paid $50k. At the time though I remember it looked better than all my friends cars, I always thought it was a good looking car untill years later I saw the same colour and model 535i and I my memory had not served me well on it's good looks. These days I really like the look of the e28 but it's more of a classic look. The E34 though was such a new looking car that it still holds it's own today (as to some extent the e30 and definatly the e36 - I dare say the E36 all tricked up still looks better than the next model all rounded man, they were so late with that rounded look they should have skipped it all together and shown to everyone that they were "above" the market in following silly trends) anyway, i recon the new 5 series will hold it's own to the future but I think it will take it's time before that shape matures which will happen by other makers copying it and the BMW still looking better.

[Kalevera]

Personally, I think the E60 is infinitely much more attractive than the E39, and I'd own one of the new M5s in a second. Can't say the same for the six or the E65/66, and I'm currently impartial to the E90.

So, from my perspective, Bangle is doing some things just fine, others not so well. But the new M5 is a hot piece of pie if I ever saw it, rear end and all.

best, whit

[Zeuk in Oz]

Personally, I think the E60 is infinitely much more attractive than the E39, and I'd own one of the new M5s in a second. Can't say the same for the six or the E65/66, and I'm currently impartial to the E90.

So, from my perspective, Bangle is doing some things just fine, others not so well. But the new M5 is a hot piece of pie if I ever saw it, rear end and all.

best, whit
I couldn't agree more - I loved the E 60 when it came out and IMHO the E 90 doesn't go far enough.
What I wouldn't give for a 535d E 60 with chip ! :D :D Or an M6 ! :D
The only design I had a problem with when it came out was the X5 but that has grown on me.
I still have trouble with the E 39 nose but will probably have to accept it if I ever buy one !
Personally I think whoever designed or oversaw these designs is a genius - and if that is Bangle - so be it.

[emw525E34]

THe M5 E60 has aero tricks that makes it more distinctive. Maybe thats the reason why BMW has been offering "free" M-trim kits in Asia in hopes of attracting more buyers.

The plain jane E60 compared to an M-kitted car looks rather different from all angles. Many of us may have been "influenced" by the initial plain jane E60 shape. Somehow that first impression of the new 7Series still holds "nightmarish" images in my head. What monstrosity in the parking garage.
NOt so much for the E60, just not "outstanding" enough for a 5-series, then the M showed up. That made up for whatever difficiencies we have had...

But a year ago, I saw an ACS kitted Seven and it looks pretty damn good for a big car.....

[rob101]

I dont know much about the designer inside BMW but I have put a lot of thought into cars like most of you. My dad had an 86 535i when it was new, back then BMW was a very rare car here. He actually got it 2 years old and still paid $50k. At the time though I remember it looked better than all my friends cars, I always thought it was a good looking car untill years later I saw the same colour and model 535i and I my memory had not served me well on it's good looks. These days I really like the look of the e28 but it's more of a classic look. The E34 though was such a new looking car that it still holds it's own today (as to some extent the e30 and definatly the e36 - I dare say the E36 all tricked up still looks better than the next model all rounded man, they were so late with that rounded look they should have skipped it all together and shown to everyone that they were "above" the market in following silly trends) anyway, i recon the new 5 series will hold it's own to the future but I think it will take it's time before that shape matures which will happen by other makers copying it and the BMW still looking better.
Couldn't agree more about the e28 having a more classic look. personally i don't like the look of the e36, I am actually a big fan of the look of the e39, although i do like the e60's look, but as for the new model range's looks i think the current 7 series is the pick of the litter. although all of the new ones are a bit weird looking but hey thats life. Has anyone in australia noticed the back of the new Mercedes CLS looks like the back of the AU falcon lol.

[Traian]

I get a lot of people telling me that they really like my car, and that they are surprised that someone so young / in school could afford such a nice car. This comes from people who drive newer cars usually, without realizing that their own cars are certainly much more expensive. I wouldn't call it rich, but the E34 is a very elegant tasteful shape. I guess they were probably saying this when the E28 retired as well, but I just don't see the E60 getting that kind of reaction in 10 years. In fact, I doubt it gets that kind of reaction now.

[F4Phantom]

To me, and i am sure all of you, BMW have traditionally been a no crap, straight up and down car. This design is why I have found it attractive. Merc on the other hand with their mid 90's rounded look was kind of all over the place with no central theme or line. I dislike cars with extra design lines and no start or end. This is why I also like nissans, subaru, and I have always hated Audi but now I find the new ones very nice too look at. The thing I have a problem with the new bimmers is, although as a whole they are a great machine, they have a lot of extra style features which are not needed and kind of go beyond the mark a bit. As mentioned tho, I am sure it will grow on me. "Has anyone in australia noticed the back of the new Mercedes CLS looks like the back of the AU falcon lol." Yeah what a heap of crap the falcon is, I also hate other cars such as magna's and magnadores, actually my car hating list is too long, I hate every car except the ones I own, Porsche's, BMW, Mclaren F1.

[guinness]

follow more of the Japanese automakers direction leaning towards the
Rolling hemorrhoid look with over the top lighting and lines
You sir have hit it on the head

[tim]

Do you guys know the story of how this whole Bangle thing got started?

It seems Luthe, the great design chief of BMW; who along with Ercole Spada designed the e34 and all the other great bmw designs (e28, 32, 34, 36, 38 and 39), was at the top of his game, he didn't retire or anything. He was BMW's life blood- but he killed a man, and that changed everything at BMW.

He had a son who was an alcoholic junkie. They were known to have a difficult relationship, as Luthe was unwilling to finance the son's various afflictions. One night they got into a scrap and the old man stabbed his son to death. Naturally it was a big deal and he resigned. He was found innocent by a jury, who ruled justifiable homicide in self defense. The son was well known as a piece of crap, and came to the house to basically rob his dad for smack money.

It took Wolfgang Reitzel several years to find Bangle- and his hiring stunned german observers and created a design philosophy rift within the company that still exists today, both in the boardroom and on the drawing boards. You can see by the chimeric designs that are coming out, that not even the designers have a coherent philosophy, and like the mythical medieval creatures, the cars appear to be cobbled together from parts of dissimilar animals. Gone is the marriage of italian lines and german engineering. They belong now to the school of "lets do whatever the japanese are doing since they're making the most money."

It would be fascinating to conceive of what the designs would look like today if Luthe's son were a different person. The e38 and e39's were the last cars on the boards, but not in production, when this all occured. To me they are the last real BMWs.

[Jon K]

I didn't read the whole thread yet, but I keep picturing an retro-modern E34 5 series and i keep getting really excited.