IDIOT crashes Ferrari F50 on a pilon circuit!

[SharkmanBMW]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/45581/ferrari_f50_crash

driver needs some serious driver training!

[632 Regal]

amazing no one was killed

[Jeff N.]

Something's strange. He turned the wheel hard right but the car went straight. I'm not going to buy the understeer story on an F50, especially at that speed. Maybe...maybe...a pedal error - could have been pressing both the brake and the gas at the same time with the same foot.

Can anyone else think of what happened??

[SharkmanBMW]

It was apparently raining a bit, braked too hard, wheels locked up and he went straight! No antilock on a Ferrari?!?!!!!!!
The track worker was very lucky not to get pinned under it.

[Jay 535i]

I've seen that one before.

Yeah, the guy's brakes are clearly locked on the wet pavement, and he just winds on more and more lock while keeping his foot planted. Dumb.

No, no antilock on the F50. It's a track car.

I've seen another in-car video of an F50 owner showing off to a passenger on a track. He spins into a wall and totals the car. Sorry I don't have that vid anymore.

Some people have more money than ability...

[Jeff N.]

Watch the last part of the clip - the car clearly is going straight, constant speed, front wheels turned hard over, rears rolling.

If he was locked up, the car should be slowing and rears likely not turning.

After watching it again, I'm 99% sure the driver had both the brake and the thottle depressed concurrently.

We actually see this quite a bit at the track on novice days, particularly in the threshold braking drill. People are so focused on pressing the brake pedal that they don't realize they are also pressing the throttle. They realize it once they depress the clutch and the car engine races....

Additionally, I would suspect a very tight race pedal type arrangement on an F50. Something that a typical street car wouldn't have and a novice driver wouldn't be ready for. Seems pretty clear from this video that this was some sort of demo day.

I bet we have this situation. The guy had never driven an F50. Is out on a demo day. Goes to make the turn. Ties to hit the brake. Instead covers the brake and the throttle. Doesn't realize it. Fronts lock aided by wet pavement. The 500HP or so keep pushing the car forward. Driver is clueless as to why car won't stop or turn, is essentially frozen. Car goes off track.




It was apparently raining a bit, braked too hard, wheels locked up and he went straight! No antilock on a Ferrari?!?!!!!!!
The track worker was very lucky not to get pinned under it.

[Jay 535i]

Watch the last part of the clip - the car clearly is going straight, constant speed, front wheels turned hard over, rears rolling.

If he was locked up, the car should be slowing and rears likely not turning.

After watching it again, I'm 99% sure the driver had both the brake and the thottle depressed concurrently.

We actually see this quite a bit at the track on novice days, particularly in the threshold braking drill. People are so focused on pressing the brake pedal that they don't realize they are also pressing the throttle. They realize it once they depress the clutch and the car engine races....

Additionally, I would suspect a very tight race pedal type arrangement on an F50. Something that a typical street car wouldn't have and a novice driver wouldn't be ready for. Seems pretty clear from this video that this was some sort of demo day.

I bet we have this situation. The guy had never driven an F50. Is out on a demo day. Goes to make the turn. Ties to hit the brake. Instead covers the brake and the throttle. Doesn't realize it. Fronts lock aided by wet pavement. The 500HP or so keep pushing the car forward. Driver is clueless as to why car won't stop or turn, is essentially frozen. Car goes off track.

That sounds plausible.

While the fronts are clearly locked, he doesn't seem to be decelerating at all.

[bahnstormer]

no one was killed cuz its like 30 mph

[MTechnik540i]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/45581/ferrari_f50_crash

driver needs some serious driver training!

That's way too funny.

Just the idea of an F50 on an AutoX makes me giggle.

[632 Regal]

you may giggle but its on the verge of death....not funny at all.
That's way too funny.

Just the idea of an F50 on an AutoX makes me giggle.

[schnell944]

but look how many times he turned the wheel to the right....didnt know you could go that far! and when it goes over, the wheels are still pointed straight....looks like something broke, no?

[Black 535i]

One view has him going into the building at a 45 degree angle from the left and another view seems to have him entering it straight on? Do my eyes deceive me or is this correct?


but look how many times he turned the wheel to the right....didnt know you could go that far! and when it goes over, the wheels are still pointed straight....looks like something broke, no?

[Traian]

End says the driver and the lady weren't seriously injured, but no mention of the track official. So much for him I guess... Poor fellow.

[MTechnik540i]

you may giggle but its on the verge of death....not funny at all.

I'm still giggling.

Lighten up.

BTW, helmets are a greeeat idea.

[Jeff N.]

Read my post above - I'm 99.9% sure that's what happened. Seen it before when instructing skills days at with our local CCA chapter.


but look how many times he turned the wheel to the right....didnt know you could go that far! and when it goes over, the wheels are still pointed straight....looks like something broke, no?

[mattyb]

wonker!

[SharkmanBMW]

End says the driver and the lady weren't seriously injured, but no mention of the track official. So much for him I guess... Poor fellow.


The track official was the lady.

[stx133]

never trust a 'gerry'

[Jon K]

Something is weird there. He turned to lock, and was not decelerating one bit. I dunno what happened but I don't think he pressed both pedals at once. At least on my friends 355, the ferrari brake pedal is up from the gas pedal about 1", would take some SERIOUS pressing of the brake to accidentally bring it to the throttle pedals level.

[Jeff N.]

...the brake pedal is setup higher so, when depressed at threshold braking level, it should be at a similar height to the throttle. This allows you manipulate the throttle nicely with a heel/toe technique....

Short of a very strange mechanical failure; I can't come up with any other explanation for what happened. Brake failure wouldn't account for what is going on there. Nor would steering failure.

If not pressing both pedals, what scenario can you think of that would?



Something is weird there. He turned to lock, and was not decelerating one bit. I dunno what happened but I don't think he pressed both pedals at once. At least on my friends 355, the ferrari brake pedal is up from the gas pedal about 1", would take some SERIOUS pressing of the brake to accidentally bring it to the throttle pedals level.

[pbrennan10]

i think there was a very strong magnet in that underground shop or perhaps a tailwind.

[Jon K]

I know how the pedals are setup :) I've driven it and can't imagine accidentally pushing the throttle enough to continue running the engine against the brakes in that manner. It's easy to see what happened. Go to time stamp 00:23 in the video. The driver was coming out of a hard left hand turn, so his front wheels were \ \ however, he's supposed to bring it out into a hard right hand turn and he (as we clearly see) turn the wheel to right lock so the wheels SHOULD be / /. However, going to 00:23 and watching in slow motion, you can clearly see his right wheel is still \ which would indicate a broke tie rod. So, he successfully set his wheels up like / \ which will, however awkward, keep the car in a straight fashion. Solved :)

[genphreak]

[quote=Jon K] Hmmm. He certainly seems to be busy enjoying the chaos unfold instead of doing much work at the wheel. Maybe the guy never drove a manual until he got into that Ferrari, or perhaps he was too old to drive and had a panic attack, or was concentrating too much on the promo girl beside him and then had a panic attack!

Or perhaps there was a cone or two jammed under the front (or in the wheel arch even) from the previous few turns, stopping the wheels touching the ground or otherwise preventing the steering working.

Anyway... why the hell was he not wearing a helmet if he was doing trackwork anyway? At least his co-driver could have rapped on it and told him tell him 'wake up!'

The angles thing mentioned earlier in the thread is just parallax error making the result of the accident seem different to what the tail-shot suggested.

[Jon K]

Pretty sure its a broken tie rod, see my above posts.

[genphreak]

Pretty sure its a broken tie rod, see my above posts.My money would be on a cone jammed in behind the wheel, between the wheel and the body perhaps. :) That'd make it hard to steer.

Regardless, the guy obviously didn't know how to act or was otherwise impaired...

[Jeff N.]

...I think if you draw it out, you'll find that the wheels are pointed the right direction. I had to draw out the car, wheel angle post turn and the targeted course worker. By my read the camera angle at 0:23 is behind the car, right corner. That would make the wheels pointing the correct direction based on the drivers input.

Try it...see if you reach the conclusion I did.

And..even if the tie rod broke you would expect (but we don't know for sure fo course) that the driver would have been braking for the turn and would have continued to brake and we would see that deceleration in the video. Of course, I suspect an F50 rarely brakes to turn. Still, I think it's likely and we just don't see the car decel. I'm back to my hypthosis that he's got both pedals covered.

It's fun to try to figure out what happened. Our instructor group always does this as group after any on-track incident. Doesn't make us experts, just interested in trying to sort out what happened...


I know how the pedals are setup :) I've driven it and can't imagine accidentally pushing the throttle enough to continue running the engine against the brakes in that manner. It's easy to see what happened. Go to time stamp 00:23 in the video. The driver was coming out of a hard left hand turn, so his front wheels were \ \ however, he's supposed to bring it out into a hard right hand turn and he (as we clearly see) turn the wheel to right lock so the wheels SHOULD be / /. However, going to 00:23 and watching in slow motion, you can clearly see his right wheel is still \ which would indicate a broke tie rod. So, he successfully set his wheels up like / \ which will, however awkward, keep the car in a straight fashion. Solved :)

[632 Regal]

I agree with the excessive tailwind post.

[Jon K]

Jeff, I drew it out. I don't see how they would be pointing the opposite way. He made a left turn, the tie rod breaks, so his right wheel is still turning left, then he steers to full lock right, so his left tire faces / and his right \, and he's toeing straight and down into the ditch. Run it through visually once more, and note that the tie rod prob broke going INTO the left hander, and was broken going INTO the right hander (which isn't a right, since he goes straight).

At 00:23 its plain to see that we see tire tread and nothing but tire tread from the front right wheel. If you're trying to make a right hand turn and a camera on your right hand side and from behind shoes tire tread... you're in trouble.

[MTechnik540i]

Jeff, I drew it out. I don't see how they would be pointing the opposite way. He made a left turn, the tie rod breaks, so his right wheel is still turning left, then he steers to full lock right, so his left tire faces / and his right \, and he's toeing straight and down into the ditch. Run it through visually once more, and note that the tie rod prob broke going INTO the left hander, and was broken going INTO the right hander (which isn't a right, since he goes straight).

At 00:23 its plain to see that we see tire tread and nothing but tire tread from the front right wheel. If you're trying to make a right hand turn and a camera on your right hand side and from behind shoes tire tread... you're in trouble.

You've officially got too much time on your hands. :D

[Jon K]

You've officially got too much time on your hands. :D


I multitask, I am also looking over Humanties 4 course homework, my ECU datalog, updating my website/forum, and ordering parts ;)

[DanDombrowski]

If he's wearing anything like the clogs I usually wear compared to racing shoes, I can see that happening on many cars, not just a ferrari. I used to valet park cars in high school - quite a few high ends that I felt like I had to take off my shoes and drive with my big toes :)

[Jeff N.]

...no on there could figure it out either. Comments ranged from "somethings weird with the video angles" to "understeer" (ain't buying that one) to "both pedals" to "mechanical failure".

I need to look (again) at the vid to see if I can see what you're seeing.



Jeff, I drew it out. I don't see how they would be pointing the opposite way. He made a left turn, the tie rod breaks, so his right wheel is still turning left, then he steers to full lock right, so his left tire faces / and his right \, and he's toeing straight and down into the ditch. Run it through visually once more, and note that the tie rod prob broke going INTO the left hander, and was broken going INTO the right hander (which isn't a right, since he goes straight).

At 00:23 its plain to see that we see tire tread and nothing but tire tread from the front right wheel. If you're trying to make a right hand turn and a camera on your right hand side and from behind shoes tire tread... you're in trouble.

[greghodg]

One of the two views must be flipped horizontally. In the in-car video, the "victim" goes off the left hand side of the car and that side is the initial impact, in the out-of-car video, the "victim" goes off the right hand side. Weird...