What 'other' engines have been fitted to the E34 (flame suit on!)

[beetos]

For all the BMW purists, apologies in advance for this, but I was wondering what other motors can / have been put in an E34? For the record, I don't want to change my motor, but was thinking along the lines of a project for another car seeing as fairly decent E34's are available for cheap. I love the shape, interior etc of the E34's and have been toying with the idea of a hybrid lately.

I was wondering if anyone has done a GM or Ford V8 conversion (something like an LS1) and if the complete engine and tranny have been made to work by someone else. I appreciate there would be mods to the driveshaft, maybe even the transmission tunnel etc. Just trying to gauge the level of complexity involved.

What about a skyline RB26DE motor and tranny?

[rob101]

For all the BMW purists, apologies in advance for this, but I was wondering what other motors can / have been put in an E34? For the record, I don't want to change my motor, but was thinking along the lines of a project for another car seeing as fairly decent E34's are available for cheap. I love the shape, interior etc of the E34's and have been toying with the idea of a hybrid lately.

I was wondering if anyone has done a GM or Ford V8 conversion (something like an LS1) and if the complete engine and tranny have been made to work by someone else. I appreciate there would be mods to the driveshaft, maybe even the transmission tunnel etc. Just trying to gauge the level of complexity involved.

What about a skyline RB26DE motor and tranny?
http://cyberqld.com/portal/Default.aspx?tabid=73

this website goes over a sr20det into an e30 and a few other engine conversions for e30.

a assumed you mean RB26DETT....... lol I would expect it would be cheaper to slap a turbo on a BMW engine than to buy a GTR engine.

[rob101]

actually that gives me an idea hmmmmm RB20det into e28....... do you know how cheap RB20det's are around here....... far out they can't give them away...... but they are capable of 300 hp

[632 Regal]

if you find a link about putting a tall deck merlin engine in one be sure to send me the link. :D

[angrypancake]

i remember seeing a twin turbo supra engine in an e30. forget the type, 2jz or something

[genphreak]

For all the BMW purists, apologies in advance for this, but I was wondering what other motors can / have been put in an E34?... What about a skyline RB26DE motor and tranny?What about 2 RB26DETs side by side? BMW did it, I wonder if Nissan could! :) Nick

[beetos]

assumed you mean RB26DETT....... lol I would expect it would be cheaper to slap a turbo on a BMW engine than to buy a GTR engine.

Yeah, the DETT, I think it would be pretty sweet. I would love to put an LS6 in an E34...must be someone out there with one

[rob101]

an rb26dett isn't that much better than an M5 engine and an M5 engine doesn't have turbo lag etc.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Just go all out, slap a new M5 engine in there. 500 HP, what else do you need? That way you keep it in the family.

[angrypancake]

if youre going all out, boost the crap out of said m5 engine

[Bill R.]

website he shows a LS1 into an e24 conversion and i think he used the zf six speed that gm uses also. Here's his site.

(http://www.mwrench.com/)




For all the BMW purists, apologies in advance for this, but I was wondering what other motors can / have been put in an E34? For the record, I don't want to change my motor, but was thinking along the lines of a project for another car seeing as fairly decent E34's are available for cheap. I love the shape, interior etc of the E34's and have been toying with the idea of a hybrid lately.

I was wondering if anyone has done a GM or Ford V8 conversion (something like an LS1) and if the complete engine and tranny have been made to work by someone else. I appreciate there would be mods to the driveshaft, maybe even the transmission tunnel etc. Just trying to gauge the level of complexity involved.

What about a skyline RB26DE motor and tranny?

[bjl4776]

I know on the E36 the two big engine swaps that arent BMW are the LS1 and the 2jz. The 2jz makes a better fit into a e36 cause its a straight six and is capable of 100hp with stock internals. The LS1 would fit easily in a 540 because it is already made to except a V8

[angrypancake]

alright i feel like an idiot (which isn't anything new but still) for asking this, i feel like i should know. i see you guys referring to an LS1 a lot. What is it?!

[Kobe Diesel]

Althoug not an E34, I've seen an E30 in Performance BMW magazine with the 5.7L Pontiac GTO motor and transmission. It hardly fits under the "bonnet".
Then again this is purely for racing.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Chevy 350 V8. It was in the later Camaros and Firebirds before they were killed off, and the C5 Vette. What are they guys, 300-350 HP or so depending on the application? Cheap HP, but not nearly as smooth or refined as an OHC engine.

[632 Regal]

if it was really a pontiac motor and not a chevy block that would make it a big block...almost as big as my Merlin.

Althoug not an E34, I've seen an E30 in Performance BMW magazine with the 5.7L Pontiac GTO motor and transmission. It hardly fits under the "bonnet".
Then again this is purely for racing.

[onewhippedpuppy]

New GTO started out with the LS1, now it has some sort of 400 HP derivative in it. Same motor, still a small block.

Relevant to this thread, has anybody ever seen an M62 swap using the later 340 HP M62?

[Booster]

an rb26dett isn't that much better than an M5 engine and an M5 engine doesn't have turbo lag etc.

I have an RB26DETT going into a early Datsun Z . I would think that being an already boosted capable engine, the RB would render higher HP ability to that of the M5 since it could only be boosted to 5-8 lbs before trouble. Not to mention the detonation concerns.
Although you may be only doing the swap for reliability and a cheap price ? Large built HP may not be a concern for you.
I was eyeballing a Bimmer V/12 engine and drivetrain for my E34, but decided on just boosting the stock I6 since I already have too many involved projects I'd like to bring to fruition before I die..........of natural causes,preferably.:D
Doing an LS-1 swap would probably yeild you the most HP with easy upgrades as well as have the most support for mounts etc. I've ridden in several LS-1 swapped cars ( like the third and sec. gen RX-7's,Datsun Z's,Jaguars etc. and they were all very fun.
Obviously the more exotic you choose,so it goes with the cost exponetially.
..............Vinny

[BigKriss]

http://www.eurocca.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12476&highlight=turbo+e34

[genphreak]

if it was really a pontiac motor and not a chevy block that would make it a big block...almost as big as my Merlin.You have a Merlin? They are ultra rare... do post a pic- what type do you speak Jeff; is it the marine or old english aeronautical version?

[Kalevera]

Our dyno guy came by a week or so ago, saw what I was doing to Fritz, and mentioned that there's some dude in michigan who just stuck a LS1 supercharged (or was it twin turboed? I forget) + t56 in his E34 automatic with a blown trans. Guess he got the car for free, and the dyno guy did the tuning of the FI setup. He also said that the LS1/t56 fits like a glove. Custom motor mounts are all you need, no cutting or anything.

best, whit

[beetos]

Thanks for the links guys,

Bill, that is one cool LS6 conversion site, with a T56 tans to boot! awsome.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

My Dad used to fix Royce-Merlins during WWII

[Boom n Zoom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 632 Regal
if it was really a pontiac motor and not a chevy block that would make it a big block...almost as big as my Merlin.
Originally posted by genphreak
You have a Merlin? They are ultra rare... do post a pic- what type do you speak Jeff; is it the marine or old english aeronautical version?


It's got me thinking as well genphreak, although the Merlin in Areonautical guise is 'common' there are quite a few about and they are readily available if you have the money.

Now what I would like to see is a Jumo or a DB 600 series. Now these are rare in comparison the the Merlin :D

Boom n Zoom.

[genphreak]

Thanks for the links guys, Bill, that is one cool LS6 conversion site, with a T56 tans to boot! awsome.Yea that is a sweet install; how much can one score an LS1 for with turbo? I wonder what mods would have to be done to fit the turbo in the Bimmer bay. Wow, given I am already preparing to go manual that is actually looking like a good option... and it fits so sweet, everything well placed- the cross member and shifter fit was simply gorgeous. Nostalgia tells me I'd far rather a 540 motor, but (definately) if turboing an LS1 setup would have to be one of the best options possible... but ya, it would require an 850 diff for sure... :) Nick

Gee that e24 would haul hard!

[wingman]

Got that flame suit on nice and tight? How about a ballistic vest? As a purist my answer is if you do it please don't tell me about it. All the best with whatever you decide.

[Paul in NZ]

a m5 or 540 driveline would prolly handle a ls1....without too much boost

[rob101]

I have an RB26DETT going into a early Datsun Z . I would think that being an already boosted capable engine, the RB would render higher HP ability to that of the M5 since it could only be boosted to 5-8 lbs before trouble. Not to mention the detonation concerns.
Although you may be only doing the swap for reliability and a cheap price ? Large built HP may not be a concern for you.
I was eyeballing a Bimmer V/12 engine and drivetrain for my E34, but decided on just boosting the stock I6 since I already have too many involved projects I'd like to bring to fruition before I die..........of natural causes,preferably.:D
yes but an m5 engine has bigger displacement and better volumetric effeciency. turbo isn't the only way to make power. it already makes 300+ hp without boost.... it is debatable that an RB26dett could make more hp. but i guess it depends on what the strategy is...... bolt on mods or internal etc.

[beetos]

Got that flame suit on nice and tight? How about a ballistic vest? As a purist my answer is if you do it please don't tell me about it. All the best with whatever you decide.


Cheers, I can respect your opinion. I am in love with my monster M30 just now so nothing on the cards, but who knows. If that goes bang I would LOVE a set up like that E24 LS6.

[ILoveMPower]

beetos, picture of your engine? my hand lotion and kleenex are waiting...

[Booster]

yes but an m5 engine has bigger displacement and better volumetric effeciency. turbo isn't the only way to make power. it already makes 300+ hp without boost.... it is debatable that an RB26dett could make more hp. but i guess it depends on what the strategy is...... bolt on mods or internal etc.

Well, not to argue that point too far Rob.......but I doubt you'll be getting 750 bhp in the M with just cams and external upgrades like I can with my RB. After that I'm going inside for forged internals.The stock hp on the RB 26 is 320hp with great restrictions at that tune.
The M is near its high hp tune when it arrives unless I'm missing something key here ?Cams ,exhaust,fuel upgrades and what else / And the M would rate at what then ?
..........Vinny

[Jon K]

actually that gives me an idea hmmmmm RB20det into e28....... do you know how cheap RB20det's are around here....... far out they can't give them away...... but they are capable of 300 hp


An M50 with 9 - 10 psi is capable of over 300.

[Jon K]

Yea that is a sweet install; how much can one score an LS1 for with turbo? I wonder what mods would have to be done to fit the turbo in the Bimmer bay. Wow, given I am already preparing to go manual that is actually looking like a good option... and it fits so sweet, everything well placed- the cross member and shifter fit was simply gorgeous. Nostalgia tells me I'd far rather a 540 motor, but (definately) if turboing an LS1 setup would have to be one of the best options possible... but ya, it would require an 850 diff for sure... :) Nick

Gee that e24 would haul hard!



The only way you'd fit a turbo and an LS1 in an E34 is with a remote turbo. THere's not room in the engine bay for a V8 and a turbo, else we'd ahve turbo 540's

[rob101]

Well, not to argue that point too far Rob.......but I doubt you'll be getting 750 bhp in the M with just cams and external upgrades like I can with my RB. After that I'm going inside for forged internals.The stock hp on the RB 26 is 320hp with great restrictions at that tune.
The M is near its high hp tune when it arrives unless I'm missing something key here ?Cams ,exhaust,fuel upgrades and what else / And the M would rate at what then ?
..........Vinny
you forgot super or turbocharger, to compare apples with apples the GTR would need a new turbo anyway to reach that mark no way in hell it could do that on the stock turbos (can you say T88-34D).... I'd like to see any normal person (not HKS or JUN show/drag cars) get 750 bhp out of an RB and street it and have the engine last any significant length of time.... supra engines 3.0L are reputably able to make 800hp on stock internals but the RB26DETT isn't as strong as one of them.... thing is if we are talking frigging with the internals lower the comp ratio of an M5 motor and chuck a turbo on it....... i think you are missing the point of an M5 engine can make 320-350 hp without any boost so if you did boost it, it could easily make alot of power without using as much boost........ because the heads have more flow than an RB and the engine has more displacement.....which would give you better response from the M5 engine. i guess at this point its a difference of opinion but i am not biased against nissan engines i have had a fairly decent exposure to them and my friend has an silvia SR20det making probably about 380 hp at the flywheel 200 Kw ATW with a disco potato but I just think that they are overrated in some respects.

[Jon K]

Well, not to argue that point too far Rob.......but I doubt you'll be getting 750 bhp in the M with just cams and external upgrades like I can with my RB. After that I'm going inside for forged internals.The stock hp on the RB 26 is 320hp with great restrictions at that tune.
The M is near its high hp tune when it arrives unless I'm missing something key here ?Cams ,exhaust,fuel upgrades and what else / And the M would rate at what then ?
..........Vinny


Booster,

the S38B36 is capable of huge numbers. It is probably the most popular swap in the E30 arena. They take S38B36 (US spec)... no 3.8L because the spacing between cylinders is too narrow that it blows the headgasket out. They simply use a MLS headgasket to drop compression and go large on the turbo. There are a NUMBER of S38 E30s in europe making over 1,000 WHEEL horse power. Most have gone to forged internals but there are a couple cars still on stock innards.

There's also a car up in CT running an M52B28 with 635 WHEEL power with stock internals.

http://www.kilander-racing.se/gallery/Pictures/338_2/PICT0380.JPG

[rob101]

Booster,

the S38B36 is capable of huge numbers. It is probably the most popular swap in the E30 arena. They take S38B36 (US spec)... no 3.8L because the spacing between cylinders is too narrow that it blows the headgasket out. They simply use a MLS headgasket to drop compression and go large on the turbo. There are a NUMBER of S38 E30s in europe making over 1,000 WHEEL horse power. Most have gone to forged internals but there are a couple cars still on stock innards.

There's also a car up in CT running an M52B28 with 635 WHEEL power with stock internals.


Couldn't have put it better myself :)


An M50 with 9 - 10 psi is capable of over 300.
well yes but i can assure you an RB20det is muccccccccccch cheaper than an M50 but say if i was going to do over my car then i wouldn't toss the m50 for an rb20det lol not by a long shot

[beetos]

Booster,
http://www.kilander-racing.se/gallery/Pictures/338_2/PICT0380.JPG

F'k me, that car looks wicked, absolutely wicked. I thought my intercooler was big but jesus. I guess I have found my new desktop wallpaper.

[Dr. evil]

HOly SHiii

[genphreak]

The only way you'd fit a turbo and an LS1 in an E34 is with a remote turbo. There's not room in the engine bay for a V8 and a turbo, else we'd ahve turbo 540'sSure, I was thinking that with the LS1 there'd perhaps be a few 'more interesting manifold' options- I mean looking at that LS1 setup in the e24, there's heaps of room just ahead of the towers for turbos. If one could find a suitable manifold to bring 'em forward- and surely with all the cars LS-1s are in some suitable manifolds exist?

Actually I am surprised noone has done this on the 540- one of Erich's more outrageous links was that mad Alpina e32 (750iL) with not just twin turbos but twin intercoolers (v12) behind the headlights (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/149727), the turbos were under them of course- the intercoolers wre the main problem. They opted for some interesting insulation and smart baffling of the air-flows as opposed to a front spoiler mounted intercooler setup. Has no-one seriously turboed an M60 yet? Wow, Nick

[632 Regal]

definetly a different merlin...ill see what if I have any pics on here.

[Jon K]

Its not so much that no one hasn't thought of how to turbo an m60, but the V8 already has gobs of torque down load, a suitable addition is a blower. It's exponentially cheaper. sts turbo offers cheap remote mount kits... they just haven't really caught on. they work tho, i have a vid from a local track here of a z06 runing a 9.45 with one.

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/c5%20corvette/img_2124.jpg

[onewhippedpuppy]

Jon, how was the lag on that Z06? I've always been curious, a remote turbo solves all sorts of packaging problems, as well as dissipates heat better with the longer piping under the car. The piping is also was has led me to wonder about the lag, that's quite a ways from the turbo to the intake.

[Jon K]

Theres no lag. The piping makes you think there would be, but exhaust pulses move quite fast, no lag what so ever.

[skr]

i just saw this totaled doge ram srt10 a few days ago. front side was ok. THAT was a nice engine . on an E30 maybee? 383i :)

[beetos]

beetos, picture of your engine? my hand lotion and kleenex are waiting...


LOL.....

here you go mate, make sure to clean up the mess now!

http://servo.postverket.us/alex/BMW.pdf