The news is in...

[Jon K]

Jon,

Divide the diameter of the crank pulley to the sc, multiplicate this with the redline rpm and then with 15 (the internal gear step of my sc).

If you dont spin over 100.000 rpm with the TM I - 12, you should not have problems withthe sc. If your system is fine, you should be able to reach 12 to 14 psi.

Mit freundlichen Grueßen
Christian Stoeber


*EVIL GRIN*

[Dave M]

All that stuff you wrote.... sounds FAST. Have you ratbagged this thing yet or is it still in the development stage? Did you find the M50 engine you were looking for and if so, what are your plans fo it?

Dave M

[Jay 535i]

Divide the diameter of the crank pulley to the sc, multiplicate this with the redline rpm

Glad your tuningifying skills are better than your spellicating ones. :)

[Jon K]

Glad your tuningifying skills are better than your spellicating ones. :)


That's an excerpt from an E-mail from an ASA employee in Germany.


Ratbagged?

This is going down ;)

It's running at 9 psi as is, no dyno yet. But I want more.

I bought another M50 motor from a board member in CT, I am picking it up March 6 - 10th sometime, when I'll be rebuilding it with OE new parts but with ARP head studs and a .120" VAC MLS head gasket for a 8.7 - 9.0:1 compression ratio. It will then be fitted with a turbo in addition to the supercharger, and I will drive the **** out of it.

[McWatters]

Jesus christ, u must have funding up the ass :D

Or u just sell alot of opium.

m50 super turboed sounds ****ing amazing, How bout u fly up to Tdot with it one day haha

cheers

J.McWatters

[rob101]

what kind of supercharger?


That's an excerpt from an E-mail from an ASA employee in Germany.


Ratbagged?

This is going down ;)

It's running at 9 psi as is, no dyno yet. But I want more.

I bought another M50 motor from a board member in CT, I am picking it up March 6 - 10th sometime, when I'll be rebuilding it with OE new parts but with ARP head studs and a .120" VAC MLS head gasket for a 8.7 - 9.0:1 compression ratio. It will then be fitted with a turbo in addition to the supercharger, and I will drive the **** out of it.

[Jay 535i]

what kind of supercharger?

http://www.conair-store.com//imagesEdp/p37455z.jpg

[rob101]

http://www.conair-store.com//imagesEdp/p37455z.jpg
lol hair dresser's car

no i meant rootes, centrifugal or twin screw (lysholm)

[Dave M]

http://www.conair-store.com//imagesEdp/p37455z.jpg

Thats funny, cuz its such a nice hair dryer picture.

Good Luck with everything Jon, wish i had a SuperTurbo to ratbag,

Dave M

[Jay 535i]

lol hair dresser's car

no i meant rootes, centrifugal or twin screw (lysholm)

I believe he's using a centrifugal unit. The other styles are uncommon aftermarket configurations except for American V8s, which have a lot of room in the V to house a bulkier setup.

Now that I think of it, a Rootes or twin screw setup seems at odds with a straight engine. Where does the compressor go in that case? For all I know it's never done.

Edit: Nevermind, answered my own question there. Here's an M3 (http://www.fastlane.com.au/Custom_Shed/BoomerBeemer.htm) with a screw-type supercharger.

[Jay 535i]

Thats funny, cuz its such a nice hair dryer picture.

Thank you. I had it custom chromed.

[Jon K]

I am using a CF blower commonly used on Alpina E46 and E39 cars. They do use roots type blowers (powerdyne) and screw type (eurosport, and AA is now offering one)

[rob101]

I am using a CF blower commonly used on Alpina E46 and E39 cars. They do use roots type blowers (powerdyne) and screw type (eurosport, and AA is now offering one)
well I was asking about the proposed twin supercharger set up (yes turbocharger is a type of supercharger) it seems odd on a road car to have two superchargers that make boost at the same kind of rpm most of the ones i have seen have been positive displacement mechanical supercharger with turbo charger.
Positive displacement provides boost down and turbocharger makes boost up high..if you were going to have a turbo and a CF super then why not just have a big turbo I would assume that it'd be more effecient (disclaimer: assumption not based on calculations lol)........
I am not having a go at you or saying you should do it that way btw, I am only curious as to your POV.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I used to be a diesel tech, the old engines we rebuilt had a turbo on the manifold with a twin screw SC in the V, with a water aftercooler just under it. Pretty cool stuff. The old timers said hot rodders used to buy the old SCs and adapt them to their cars.

[rob101]

I used to be a diesel tech, the old engines we rebuilt had a turbo on the manifold with a twin screw SC in the V, with a water aftercooler just under it. Pretty cool stuff. The old timers said hot rodders used to buy the old SCs and adapt them to their cars.
did i hear aftercooler?..... wow someone who actually knows what an aftercooler vs. intercooler is

[BigKriss]

How are you going to run 14 psi on a 9:1 compression ratio?
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9294/crvsboostsmall8rv.jpg



Jon,

Divide the diameter of the crank pulley to the sc, multiplicate this with the redline rpm and then with 15 (the internal gear step of my sc).

If you dont spin over 100.000 rpm with the TM I - 12, you should not have problems withthe sc. If your system is fine, you should be able to reach 12 to 14 psi.

Mit freundlichen Grueßen
Christian Stoeber


*EVIL GRIN*

[genphreak]

lol hair dresser's car

no i meant rootes, centrifugal or twin screw (lysholm)Hahhaha My car was owned by a hair-dresser. No wonder it went so well (before I bought it!), she must have taken the hairdryer she had secreted into the induction system out be4 giving it to me... Goes even better now tho :D Nick

[onewhippedpuppy]

did i hear aftercooler?..... wow someone who actually knows what an aftercooler vs. intercooler is

I always had my doubts as to the efficiency of it though, you're circulating hot coolant through it, where as a front mount intercooler gets cool fresh air. I know water is a better medium for dissapating heat than air, but the coolest intake charge you could get is the temperature of the coolant.

[rob101]

I always had my doubts as to the efficiency of it though, you're circulating hot coolant through it, where as a front mount intercooler gets cool fresh air. I know water is a better medium for dissapating heat than air, but the coolest intake charge you could get is the temperature of the coolant.
I don't mean to be rude but an aftercooler is the correct term for what people call an intercooler these days... an intercooler is a heatexchanger in between two superchargers in a multiple stage supercharged engine ... any heat exchanger placed between the engine and a supercharger is an aftercooler. I don't believe that it necessarily runs off the engine cooling system

[Jon K]

The temperature for the air intake is aiming for 40+ dgrees over ambient. I don't know why you'd think I could only get coolant temp, that'd be dangerous. I am using an air to air intercooler. And with a air ot water, they use a water resevior not engine coolant, so the temps have really very little to do with coolant temp.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I'm only referring to the systems that were on these particular engines, not your system John. The aftercooler was mounted on the intake, directly under under the twin screw SC. The cooling medium was the engine coolant, it circulated through just like any other part of the engine cooling system. I was told that the coolant temp was far cooler than the pre-cooling intake charge. The turbo was mounted on top of the engine, so it was a pretty direct system without much heat loss befor the cooler. We once had a V16, that was two of these V8s bolted together with a common crank. Two SCs, two turbos!

[Jon K]

Average operating coolant temp is 190 - 210 degrees F...

You don't want intake air temps that high

[kyleN20]

also done stock on 1995ish jag xkr's, straight six puts down somthing like 388 ft/lbs, 320 ish hp, with a roots type

[kyleN20]

apperently, according to he chart at about 90 percent efficency.

[Jay 535i]

also done stock on 1995ish jag xkr's, straight six puts down somthing like 388 ft/lbs, 320 ish hp, with a roots type

XJR :)

[Jon K]

XJR :)


They werent V8 until like 1999 - 2000 year. I read XKR again oops. The jaguar L6 supercharged wasn't that great, they revamped it with the 4.2L supercharged V8 to compete with the M5.

[kyleN20]

i was close, its weird cause i was just looking at one on roadfly, and i was like "yes, information i can show off woth" and then i go look like a jackass.
http://www.jag-lovers.org/brochures/xjr95.html
there i go opening my big mouth again

kyle

[Jay 535i]

They werent V8 until like 1999 - 2000 year. I read XKR again oops. The jaguar L6 supercharged wasn't that great, they revamped it with the 4.2L supercharged V8 to compete with the M5.

Nitpicking here, but from what I've read that engine is pretty good. Reviewers at the time liked it and said it was a match for the E34 M5's engine. It was the chassis that they said didn't stack up to the M5. I have a whole collection of reviews of the E34, many of which pit it against the XJR. The XJR aquits itself admirably, though the BMW usually gets the edge. Note that this engine also appeared in early Aston Martin DB7s.

Major chassis improvements came with the introduction of the V8, which is really a very different car despite looking identical to the earlier sixes. The V8 XJR is said to be a close match for the E39 M5.

Too bad the manual tranny wasn't available in North America.

I admit, I'm a bit of a Jag guy. :p

[onewhippedpuppy]

Average operating coolant temp is 190 - 210 degrees F...

You don't want intake air temps that high

This is a diesel, I'm not sure how the density of the intake charge affects the combustion. Regardless, that's the way they did it.

[rob101]

This is a diesel, I'm not sure how the density of the intake charge affects the combustion. Regardless, that's the way they did it.
I don't think a diesel would be as sensitive to the charge temperature after all they are designed to do what petrol engines try and avoid, detonation due to huge compression ratios....
btw jon k if you are looking are two stage supercharging i'd recommend taking a look at the NACA papers if you haven't already, for interest's sake its very interesting to see how they did it on aero engines, they also have a bit of stuff on "internal cooling" which is water/alcohol injection they is a paper on the effectiveness of water vs. water methanol vs. ammonia injection

[onewhippedpuppy]

I never realized that NACA's research was that far-reaching. I had only seen their work in the context of airfoil research.

[Jay 535i]

I don't think a diesel would be as sensitive to the charge temperature after all they are designed to do what petrol engines try and avoid, detonation due to huge compression ratios....
btw jon k if you are looking are two stage supercharging i'd recommend taking a look at the NACA papers if you haven't already, for interest's sake its very interesting to see how they did it on aero engines, they also have a bit of stuff on "internal cooling" which is water/alcohol injection they is a paper on the effectiveness of water vs. water methanol vs. ammonia injection

Oooh yeah, talk to me about water injection. I know it works, but I still can't get my head around squirting water into the combustion chamber...

[SC David]

Nitpicking here, but from what I've read that engine is pretty good. Reviewers at the time liked it and said it was a match for the E34 M5's engine. It was the chassis that they said didn't stack up to the M5. I have a whole collection of reviews of the E34, many of which pit it against the XJR. The XJR aquits itself admirably, though the BMW usually gets the edge. Note that this engine also appeared in early Aston Martin DB7s.

Major chassis improvements came with the introduction of the V8, which is really a very different car despite looking identical to the earlier sixes. The V8 XJR is said to be a close match for the E39 M5.

Too bad the manual tranny wasn't available in North America.

I admit, I'm a bit of a Jag guy. :p

The '98s through '03s had the SC V8 huh? Some of those cars go for pretty cheap, especially when comparing to E55's and M5's of similar years and mileage. Are they really a bargain, or do they have their fair share of problems?

[Jon K]

Oooh yeah, talk to me about water injection. I know it works, but I still can't get my head around squirting water into the combustion chamber...


When you do water injection you're shooting a very very fine mist of water that basically atomizes with the fuel - we're not talking about hydrolocking the son of a bitch

[rob101]

When you do water injection you're shooting a very very fine mist of water that basically atomizes with the fuel - we're not talking about hydrolocking the son of a bitch
yeah, pretty much. There is a paper where they test the knock limited Indicated Mean Effective Pressure.... they are getting maximum power out of 0.5 coolant-fuel ratio for alcohol-water and 0.6 coolant-fuel ratio for water injection. thats alot of water !!!
The paper is called "effect of water-alcohol injection and maxium-economy spark advance on knock-limited performance and fuel economy of a large air cooled cylinder" don't have the link because i saved it to my HD last time i was looking up the NACA site:D

[pundit]

Look at the technology used by aircraft back in WWII.
All kinds of supercharging, turbocharging, intercooling, fuel, water and alcohol injection systems. Over 60 years ago!