OT: Gateway tech support (lack thereof)

[Jon K]

So my gf's laptop hard drive crapped. Event viewer shows Error 9 followed by Error 51 - Disk failure, Atapi controller error.

Call Gateway. 4 different people make me do a "quick test". System BSOD's in 10 mins. SLow as **** as it's obviously trying to read data from the disk but is having issues. Man makes me put in their Gateway restore cd and the reinstall of Windows XP fails and boots but comes up with operating system not found.

I call them back they insist that it's the reinstall CD being corrupted - hello gateway, I didn't call because I was having problems reinstalling Windows, I am having problems trying to NOT reinstall Windows ;) So now, they're sending her a new reinstall CD (as if my 3 MSDN dvds and 5 retail copies of various version of WinXP/2000 were failures also!) before they "upgrade" the level of technical assistance.

Gateway supposedly was rewarded for having domestic technical support with easy to understand employees- I must have called the offshore edition. I have 3 dell laptops, all of which have had their issues, but Dell never, ever had me do all this loopy ******** to fix what I know is a failed (and clicking) hard drive. Apparently the Error 51 and Error 9 in event viewer could be "something else" lol. Also, the reason they said the installation of Windows failed is because she "might have other things installed that would interfere". If by that they mean the BIOS is present, then sure. But uh, last time I checked, after you'd done a low-level format, there's not much that can interfere haha. Good old tech support!

[HDhandyman]

That's intresting. I just had a client with a nightmare Dell scenario. Not to contend, but since I spend about 15 hours a week on the phone with tech support from various companies, I can safely say that they are all mostly crap.

Getting back to the subject at hand, you may be completely tech savvy (owning 3 puters and all) but if you are willing to listen, I have a few suggestions.

"operating system faild to load, or not found" usually means that the hard disk is f**ked. Have you taken out the hard drive and tested it independently? Should be held by a screw or clip somewhere on the back. The other things to try are disconnecting the drive from the ATapi and blowing some compressed air (canned) through the pins. I'd also probably disconnect the CMOS battery (looks like big watch battery in another compartment on the back with a screw) and letting the Bios drain for about 2 minutes. Make sure the heat sink is cool before you start all of this. Then put it all back together and check to see if Windex Xpediant will load. If not, take the drive to a shop (probably an Indy if you have a local college near you) and have them test it. If it's crap, tell your sister she owes you 110 bucks and good thing you having plenty of OS copies!

Cheers,

Stephen

P.S. finally, a problem I can solve.

[Jon K]

That's intresting. I just had a client with a nightmare Dell scenario. Not to contend, but since I spend about 15 hours a week on the phone with tech support from various companies, I can safely say that they are all mostly crap.

Getting back to the subject at hand, you may be completely tech savvy (owning 3 puters and all) but if you are willing to listen, I have a few suggestions.

"operating system faild to load, or not found" usually means that the hard disk is f**ked. Have you taken out the hard drive and tested it independently? Should be held by a screw or clip somewhere on the back. The other things to try are disconnecting the drive from the ATapi and blowing some compressed air (canned) through the pins. I'd also probably disconnect the CMOS battery (looks like big watch battery in another compartment on the back with a screw) and letting the Bios drain for about 2 minutes. Make sure the heat sink is cool before you start all of this. Then put it all back together and check to see if Windex Xpediant will load. If not, take the drive to a shop (probably an Indy if you have a local college near you) and have them test it. If it's crap, tell your sister she owes you 110 bucks and good thing you having plenty of OS copies!

Cheers,

Stephen

P.S. finally, a problem I can solve.

Thanks man, but I am quite technically savvy. It's the click of death - hitach i hard drive. I am surprised it lasted this long. The "operating system not found" is not because of the failing hard drive, but because they had her run the Windows XP reinstallation which failed and never completed, causing it to never re-write the MBR. I am a linux/unix guy and am familiar with the compters :) Thanks for input - it's just a case of shitty service. Dell, with all the issues they have, send me 2 replacement drives on for my 600m one for i8500, a new keyboard, and soon to be a new mainboard. No questions asked and no retarded run-around tests.

[genphreak]

Dunno if you have tried this, but as it sounds like disk errors: I'd have a shot using spinrite6 (http://spinrite.com) from a boot disk, it'll diagnose any physical disk errors, recover the data and get the machine stable until the next sectors die. Can do amzing things for a 'swapped to death' old disk, let alone a new one.

It's one of only a few programs marketed at windows users that can do such things. Of course it doesn't use windows tho, except to make a boot disk. If you are not familiar with it, it is nothing like using dd, cp or e2fsck or any of the usual DOS 'utilities', and it will tell you if SMART disk is screwing up should you run it again and notice the read error rate or amount of bad sectors increase. Only 2c worth tho, so probably won't work :) Nick

[HDhandyman]

It won't work. Smart money says the disk is f**ked. The likelyhood of a corrupt service CD,DVD, etc., vs. corrupt disk (crashed cannister) is 50/1 if you can't see any physical errors on the disk. Besides, if the CD, DVD, etc. were corrupt, Windows--even DOS bios should give you a message about said "corruption".

If you're a puter guy, then do you have a disk diagnostic tool?--Even something like an external disk case would work.

Just my $0.02

[HDhandyman]

Wait, this just in! I'm an idiot--tell me, can you describe how this happened? If one of the disk drives (E , F, etc. ) has gone bad, then none of what you are doing will work.

[Akhil]

I tried reinstalling W2k Pro and XP at least 10 times and every time it failed telling me "Can't write to disk, Bad Sector". But then I did a partition or 10GB primary and 30GB (rest of HDD) secondary and then It did reinstall correctly. I am guessing by doing partition, I pushed that bad sector to secondary (D:) drive and windows does not care about it while installing. So it worked and I am still using that same computer for about 2 yr now.

So if your HDD is not under warranty and you are gonna have to buy new one, you might wanna try this trick.

Akhil

[Jon K]

Wait, this just in! I'm an idiot--tell me, can you describe how this happened? If one of the disk drives (E , F, etc. ) has gone bad, then none of what you are doing will work.


What are you talking about E F...
its a laptop, its the primary drive, its a hitachi drive (known high failure) and is clicking. She get's BSOD's. Error 51 and 9's, it's evident the hard drive is failed.

[Akhil]

making c: and d:

thi trick will work only when your hdd have problem of bad sector. If read/write head is bad, then its gone. :)

Akhil

[HDhandyman]

Sorry, Jon.

Looking back today, there was never anything that you needed help with. I guess I was just up late and getting carried away. Your whole point was about Gateway tech V. Dell, in which case "right on".

Just to rond off the conversation, I missed you saying it was the "click of death" and was making a suggestion pertaining to BSODs which never means anything to me untill I have verified "all" drives. Sometimes i get a BSOD and no action from the primary if one of the other drives is out on a laptop. So, that's all I was saying.

Anyway, best wishes.

[bahnstormer]

stick a nice 7200rpm drive in there =]
it'll get a bit hot but will pay nice dividends
in speed.

those 5400rpm laptop drives are the rubbish

[Andrea K]

That's intresting. I just had a client with a nightmare Dell scenario. Not to contend, but since I spend about 15 hours a week on the phone with tech support from various companies, I can safely say that they are all mostly crap.

Getting back to the subject at hand, you may be completely tech savvy (owning 3 puters and all) but if you are willing to listen, I have a few suggestions.

"operating system faild to load, or not found" usually means that the hard disk is f**ked. Have you taken out the hard drive and tested it independently? Should be held by a screw or clip somewhere on the back. The other things to try are disconnecting the drive from the ATapi and blowing some compressed air (canned) through the pins. I'd also probably disconnect the CMOS battery (looks like big watch battery in another compartment on the back with a screw) and letting the Bios drain for about 2 minutes. Make sure the heat sink is cool before you start all of this. Then put it all back together and check to see if Windex Xpediant will load. If not, take the drive to a shop (probably an Indy if you have a local college near you) and have them test it. If it's crap, tell your sister she owes you 110 bucks and good thing you having plenty of OS copies!

Cheers,

Stephen

P.S. finally, a problem I can solve.

So your girlfriend's computer breaks, and I owe you 110 dollars?!?!?!?!

[genphreak]

It won't work. Smart money says the disk is f**ked. The likelyhood of a corrupt service CD,DVD, etc., vs. corrupt disk (crashed cannister) is 50/1 if you can't see any physical errors on the disk. Besides, if the CD, DVD, etc. were corrupt, Windows--even DOS bios should give you a message about said "corruption".

If you're a puter guy, then do you have a disk diagnostic tool?--Even something like an external disk case would work.

Just my $0.02Not at all. If a disk still boots, it is simply matter of sectors failing (excepting that seldomly it can be a component/pcb problem). This is why spinrite works in all these cases. However even if the MBR is in trouble it can recover it, or at least get the disk formattable again (not the case with Jon's sister's). Better still, used over time it gives you the evidence you need (ie increased error rates) to request a disk replacement under warranty.

[Jon K]

lol yeah why does my sister owe me $110 again?

LOL she just gave me $50 for bday.

Andrea - I bought an engine stand with that money, so you'll be getting a 55 lb package at the house this week :) Better bring it inside!

[HDhandyman]

K, couple of things.

Gen...if the disk clicks, it's gone.

Jon, and everybody else....all I meant by 110 buck is the cost of a new drive if it's not under warranty.

Later.

[genphreak]

K, couple of things.

Gen...if the disk clicks, it's gone.

Jon, and everybody else....all I meant by 110 buck is the cost of a new drive if it's not under warranty.

Later.I suggested spinrite jic the data on the disk had some value. Btw, I've had clicking disks fixed before (don't know if they last a long time after this)- I know it happens if they overheat, if the physical read geometry gets screwed up or have servo and/or power problems. However not all of these (ie heat) mean the drive is stuffed or even damaged.

EDIT: if they are not recognised by the computer's BIOS they are very dead- but that is usually a controller problem. Once I changed a controller board and edited the drive's firmware to gain access to a disk's data, it took days (real fun)- the data needed was somewhat 'interesting'...

[HDhandyman]

I suggested spinrite jic the data on the disk had some value. Btw, I've had clicking disks fixed before (don't know if they last a long time after this)- I know it happens they overheat, if the physical read geometry gets screwed up or have servo and/or power problems. However not all of these (ie heat) mean the drive is stuffed or even damaged.


word!

[kyleN20]

shoulda got an apple, (not to spark the old debate) but..... never once have i or any one of my family members (all own apples) had a problem with customer service. corse its the optional protection plan icare that puts you in serenity. they gave my brothe a new laptop because somthing was messed up, the "N"key dident work or somthing. also my friend walked into the apple store with a broken ipod and they ordered him a new one on the spot. im impressed with apple myself.

[HDhandyman]

shoulda got an apple, (not to spark the old debate) but..... never once have i or any one of my family members (all own apples) had a problem with customer service. corse its the optional protection plan icare that puts you in serenity. they gave my brothe a new laptop because somthing was messed up, the "N"key dident work or somthing. also my friend walked into the apple store with a broken ipod and they ordered him a new one on the spot. im impressed with apple myself.

That's why I use em!

[Andrea K]

"i 'on't know much about computas other than the one we got at my home, my mom put a couple games on and I play them."

[misfortune]

shoulda got an apple, (not to spark the old debate) but..... never once have i or any one of my family members (all own apples) had a problem with customer service. corse its the optional protection plan icare that puts you in serenity. they gave my brothe a new laptop because somthing was messed up, the "N"key dident work or somthing. also my friend walked into the apple store with a broken ipod and they ordered him a new one on the spot. im impressed with apple myself.

A computer is a tool. To me, buying an apple would be like using a small flathead to turn a philips screw. Possible, but why not use what you're more comfortable with.

[HDhandyman]

A computer is a tool. To me, buying an apple would be like using a small flathead to turn a philips screw. Possible, but why not use what you're more comfortable with.


Well...since you asked, let me say that right now you can buy one of those beautiful apples for equal or less than what a pc costs and all the software included is dedicated to doing what the majority of users do the most. Plus you get seemless integration and partnership with all of the programs that "just work".

If anything, Apple's major downfall is the fact that they pretty much have a monopoly in a business situation. Otherwise I think that the rest of the world would have switched a long time ago. I mean businesses want to be able to play other businesses off of each other. That's why the PC meat market is so strong. People tend to use at home, what they use at work.

Other than that, why wouldn't you want something that's built to work with each other from scratch. The design itself is evidence enough. PCs have always been trying to be a MAC anyway. Just look at windows.

[kyleN20]

i wouldent compare it like that at all, if you want to say a computer is a tool, you might at well compare like apple would be like snap-on tools, and dell, or whatever is like craftsmans. there bothe good, both capable, one is just nicer, little style to it, easier to use, and ohh yeah more expensive.

[Bill R.]

98 percent of the software i use is automotive, about 210 gb's to be exact on this machine and none of it runs on a mac without an emulator, i've tried on one of my friends machines who's a mac diehard and through the emulator the performance is very poor.. so even if i wanted a mac it would be useless for most of what i do.





Well...since you asked, let me say that right now you can buy one of those beautiful apples for equal or less than what a pc costs and all the software included is dedicated to doing what the majority of users do the most. Plus you get seemless integration and partnership with all of the programs that "just work".

If anything, Apple's major downfall is the fact that they pretty much have a monopoly in a business situation. Otherwise I think that the rest of the world would have switched a long time ago. I mean businesses want to be able to play other businesses off of each other. That's why the PC meat market is so strong. People tend to use at home, what they use at work.

Other than that, why wouldn't you want something that's built to work with each other from scratch. The design itself is evidence enough. PCs have always been trying to be a MAC anyway. Just look at windows.

[HDhandyman]

98 percent of the software i use is automotive, about 210 gb's to be exact on this machine and none of it runs on a mac without an emulator, i've tried on one of my friends machines who's a mac diehard and through the emulator the performance is very poor.. so even if i wanted a mac it would be useless for most of what i do.

I don't think you fit into that majority, Bill. You're right, free enterprise is the problem with the mac, and the reason that so many enjoy the bennefits of the PC. Unfortunately it's also the reason that so many problems occur. Nobody wants to play well together in the PC free enterprise world--just like the real business world.

The good news is that in a couple of months you'll be able to buy a MAC with a quad intel chip that will run windows natively. What say you then, when all that's ugly is the OS?

[genphreak]

i wouldent compare it like that at all, if you want to say a computer is a tool, you might at well compare like apple would be like snap-on tools, and dell, or whatever is like craftsmans. there bothe good, both capable, one is just nicer, little style to it, easier to use, and ohh yeah more expensive.Perhaps the analogies would be better put as:

- One has plastic bits that are poorly designed and fail, wear and get unavoidably broken all the time.

- One is designed to work well and is made like a Mercedes, the other an unnatural cross between a Fiat and a Ford...

At COMDEX some time ago, Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.

7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again, because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

10. Oh yeah, and last but not least . . . you'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off!

I know everyone's seen that before, it just fits this thread apart form being interesting now that Apple has the technical ascendancy.

btw, The virtualpc software on a mac will run practically all the auto software applications, (bare in mind the auto pc software crowd make horrible programs (programmatically speaking)). The BMW TIS is one of the best but still pretty horrible, though the database it uses is better than most.

Frankly, there is no excuse to ever deliberately use a wintel pc these days. Its 'nix + vmware on whatever in the server room, OS-X on Apple on the desk/laptop. Way of the future, simple. I don't do want to do any more Windoze, so I'm "sayin' no to the 'Doze" from now on :)

[Jon K]

i am going to go ahead and let everyone know that I have (nor my family) never bought a retail commercial desktop. My only issue with laptops is that while hte parts are replaceable, it voids the warranty should i decide to put in a larger or faster hard drive etc. I build my desktops because it's retardedly cheap compared to a commercial unit several steps slower. I know for my sisters desktop the total was $1,000 with case, power supply, motherboard, amd 3200+ (fastest at the time), 1GB ram, 250gb hard drive and ATI X800 Pro.

In response to the comparison of GM and Microsoft I disagree with the response from GM, its not the operating system that crashes, if the user understood that there are things a computer can and can't do then there'd be no issue. If you don't take your GM in for scheduled service it catches fire. If you don't do scheduled service on your windows installation, it catches fire.