PPPP error, thoughts?

[Espen]

Hi.

First i wanna say that I have searched this subject, but with no luck. I know you guys are thinking "Oh no... Not that again..." :p

I recently retrofitted a OBC to my 1991 525i.
I only had 3 wires to the connector, so i bought a wiring harness from a identical car with a OBC.

I fitted the harness and tested the OBC, ---nothing, completly dead.

I jumped pin 9 and pin 17 and it started up :D , now i get the well known PPPP Error, this should not happen, because I have the check control instrument cluster.
My OBC is without CodeStick.

Any thoughts? I guess I could buy a Code Stick from the dealer and wire it to the OBC, but since i got the Check Control i shouldnt need that.

[Espen]

no one?

[Javier]

to cluster, or have a missing power input in the OBC. E-mailed you some interconnection drawings for the OBC on e34 1991 so you can use as a guide to check you have all the connections and power feeds there.

Javier

[Espen]

Thanks :D

Ive looked through those drawings, (cant say i understand them that good)

I also have the "easy" version of the pin-out:

pin1: violet/green/yellow, alarm system
pin10: black/green, starter
pin6: + from fuse F17
pin9: + from fuse F20 (red/yellow)
pin8: + from fuse F1
pin22: grey/red, light switch
pin25: yellow/red, turn signal switch
pin3: white/yellow, diagnostics
pin16: white/violet, diagnostics
pin14: white/grey, instrument cluster
pin7: black/white, instrument cluster
pin4: ground
pin5: blue/red/yellow, temp sensor
pin20: black/red/yellow, pre-ventilation
pin21: black/white, pre-ventilation
pin23: violet/white/yellow, alarm system
pin17: red/grey/yellow, alarm system
pin26: black/red/yellow, fuel tank level sensor
pin12: brown/violet, fuel tank level sensor
pin11: white/black, DME
pin24: black/violet, DME
pin19: white/red, chimes
pin18: white/blue, chimes
pin15: white/brown, radio
pin2: blue/brown/yellow, radio

I am thinking of following pin 11 and 24 to see if they are going to the DME/ECU, and i thought it would be wise to also check the pin 14 and 7 who should be connected to the instrument cluster..

I assume that the connection to the DME is not there, because i fitted a complete harness, and the new harness had an extra big connector on the left side under the steering wheel, my car didnt have this connector, so its "unplugged"

If was to wire the pin 11 and 24 my self, where should i wire it?
According to the PDF (dated 1991) from javier it should go to pin 38.
According to the drawing (dated 1994) at e34de it should go to pin 45 at a "DDE control unit"

the drawings:
http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/skjemaer/javier.jpg

http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/skjemaer/pin24_11.jpg

[Espen]

After several hours of research I have found out that DDE is for Digital Diesel Electronics.


That brings up the question, where do I wire pin 11 and 24, according to the drawing at e34.de (the picture at the bottom of my last post in this thread)

Or should i just stick to the drawing i got from Javier?

In that case, it also gives me a question, is pin 24 going to pin 81 or 38?(look at the drawing) and should pin 11 go to pin 17 or 32?

[Espen]

Hmm..
After some work with my multimeter I`ve measured the wires going to the "extra" connector wich have no "connection".
Ive called it "XX" in this picture..

http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/skjemaer/obc_status.jpg

As you see its only pin 24 and pin2 that is unconnected of the "important" ones

[TWISM]

checked this link??

http://www.e34.de/tips_tricks/bc/bc4.pdf

EDIT:

And an other one!!

http://home.iae.nl/users/bts/obc.htm

[Espen]

Hi.

Yeah ive checked it some times, its the same pdf that is at gunnar525.de

[Espen]

EDIT:

And an other one!!

http://home.iae.nl/users/bts/obc.htm

I have`nt seen that one... But there were no drawings of the wiring there.
You wired all yourself right? Do you remember where you wired pin 24?

[Javier]

for DME 1.3 on 535i, 24 goes to Pin 38, for DME 3.1 on 525i, it goes to pin 81. It is the anti-theft signal generated from OBC. When you set an OBC code, it will block operation of DME until the code is re-entered.

There are important pending connections, if I understood properly your table.

Pin 6 needs power, it gets it from F17 circuit. Pin 8 need power from F1, pin 4 needs to be connected to ground, pin 5 should go to a temperature sensor in the front bumper, if you leave it open, you will have a nasty low temp alarm reading in the OBC. And finally, pin 2 going to cluster is part of the Data Link, so no communication with cluster if missing.

Javier

Edit: Pin 11 on OBC is the fuel rate signal from DME, not responsible for PPPP either, and has nothing to do with pins 3, 4, 6, and 9.

[Espen]

Thanks :D

Ive jumped the pin 24 to pin 81 on the DME.
Ive also jumped pin2 to the pin 23 at X16 behind the cluster.

Still I get PPPP... :(
is pin 6 and 4 vital for getting the PPPP away?

[Javier]

ground path so should be in also. Fuse 1 feed missing also causes PPPP display. See

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=8973

Post #16

F17 reports key run request. Why don't you just get sure all connections are there?

Javier

[Espen]

Ive tried to make sure that all connections are as they should be, but there is so many variations of the information about this, there are differences in the drawings also.

I Asume the OBC got ground, else it wouldn`t have started up at all?

Ill try to connect pin 6 and 4 as they should be...

Thanks alot Javier :D!

[Javier]

for the OBC are the one you should follow. The harness you got there may not be for a 1991 525i, so you may expect differences there. Is the unplugged connector 12 pin's white? For 1991, there is a 12 pin white that corresponds to X34 in the drawings, but does not include connections to Fuse 17 in 1991, and F17 wire is green/red (not green/brown). The drawings are plenty of bugs though, so wouldn't be surprised F17 is connected through X34.

Get that connection to F1 done. First priority. Pin 8 needs power.


Javier

[Espen]

My car is a 1991, german 525i, imported to Norway in 1993.
The harness and OBC came from a 1991 german 525 also with CC cluster. So it should have been a plug and play...

The spare white connector have 21 pins, but only 14 or 15 of them are in use.

Ill get out in the garage try get power and ground done..

[Espen]

Finally :)
Getting +12v to pin 8 solved it... its working!!!

But now a EML ligts lightens up when i stop the car.. It stays on even after i take the key out and leave the car... I didnt even know i had a EML light...

[Javier]

as far as I know, EML light is turned on grounding X34 pins 10 and/or 11, but as it is for 12 pins X34, not sure yours is the same numbers. The cluster pins for EML lights are X502 16 and 17. Guess you probably grounded them accidentally (May be grounding a pin in the X34 unplugged connector). To lead you properly, X502 is the cluster connector that connects cluster pin 18 to pin 7 at OBC (Vehicle speed signal) and cluster pin 23 to pin 14 at OBC (CC reset).

Javier`

Edit: Further analysis, lead me to believe you did not ground EML light pins but feed them with 12 V. and it is feeding the lights trough some of the other lights in the cluster. If looking carefully, you should note some of them with dimmed light, and even more, applying the park break you have some effect in EML lights and park light with key out. As you have no EML, I would simply remove the EML warning light bulbs. (think they are two of them).

[Espen]

Hi again.

I found out why it went on. When i gave +12v o pin 6 on the OBC, wich was pin 10 on the "unknown" connector i "stole" +12v from a cable behind the lightswitch, it turns out that this cable is grounded when switch is off.

It has somethiong to do with this car being sold new in Germany, and being imported to Norway, here it is forbidden to drive without lights, so to allow this car being imported someone has to rewire the lightswitch with some relays, so that the lights go on when the engine is started.

Anyway, i removed +12v to pin 10 on the XX connector, OBC still works fine, EML is gone. And my automaticly driving lights works :D

I wont believe how thankfull I am for your help.

[Javier]

now that you know it is, I would go over the whole job and try to get things as they should be, I mean, feed the circuits from the fuses they are supposed to, this will help debugging problems in the future as it will be per original specs.

Connect a temperature probe in the front bumper to have the proper reading. Don't know how did you get rid of the nasty low temperature warning (grounded OBC pin 5?). It is there to prevent you about the possibility of ice formation in the road.

Would also be sure that fuel consumption readings, trip calculations, and available fuel are OK (all they should work as you did not mess with the coding plug).

The only function that may not be there is the antitheft horn, as guess you shouldn't have the OBC horn relay in the rear seat, besides the General Module Cradle. That is the reason you force power (12 Vdc) to OBC pin 17, instead of getting it from the horn relay. At least, you should have the ignition blocking feature to prevent the engine being started.

Javier

[Espen]

I do have the low temp warning.

The aux horn is not in my car, and i dont think I will bother to install it. When it comes to the code function to prevent other starting the engine i havent tried that yet, afraid of the car going in lockdown..

Fuelconsumption seems OK, but i havent driven enough to get a precice reading of it.

How should i wire to get power from the right fuses? Is there a way to loosen the fusebox enough to get under it? Or "steal" from a other component on the same fuses`s circuit?

[Javier]

so you can identify were or what devices to tap for proper fuse feeding.

I'm almost sure you can ground the temperature probe input until you get one installed. This should get rid of the warning.

Javier

[Espen]

Thanks alot again, that pdf will help me alot :)

Im not sure if i dare to try grounding the pin for the temp sensor, I`ll go buy one as soon as possible.

[Espen]

Well I wired pin 8 and 6 to right fuses.. But then the EML started to show when key lightswitch was of and key out.
The 3 relays that is wired into the lightswitch (for that auto driving lights) also started looping (on and of like 1000 times in a second). And when i start my car my service lights and brake ligst is flashing...

Dont know what I have triggered here... Tried to unhook the batteri cables and connect them together, but that didnt help, tried to unhook the OBC from it connector that didnt help either.. So I am gonna let the battery stay unhooked over the night and see if things are better tomorrow...
Pin6 goes to fuse 17 wich is hot when key in pos 1. This is for the OBC to be started when key in pos 1 so that you can egage or disable the code option. This is not so importent for me.

[Javier]

pin 6 from F17 (run, and start), pin 9 from F20 (all time), and pin 8 from F1 (accy, run, and start). Don't know what kind of mess is there in the daylight running lights modification, but guess you have to separate completely both systems (they were working, so fitting extra wires for OBC can not interfere unless the OBC wires are also connected to the light switch, may be drawing power as originally set). Power to OBC pin 17 should also be taken from Fuse F20 or from OBC pin 9.

If the bug appears when you remove key switch, problem should be in wiring of fuse F20, unless you connected wires from other fuses to live wires (already fed wires).

Javier

[Espen]

hmm not sure if I understand all of that, my english is not that good :P

Pin6 is to pin 17 (bridged pin 1 on X15) when i did this, the EML started

Pin8 is to pin 1 (bridged the braking light switch)

Pin17 is jumped to pin 9

[Espen]

Tried to take out the EML lights, but they werent usual bulbs, they were like smal LED`s mounted deep inside the plastic cover, so i just covered them with black tape. I changed the relays for the auto lights. Still dont work, but now they dont loop. Im guessing one of the relays were shot.

When i do the test no.9 on the OBC (voltage on pin 6/fuse 17) its Ok when the engine runs (about 13.8v) but when i turn the handbrake on, it drops to 10v, strange...

[Javier]

my english is not that good

That's great, mine isn't either so we will have a lot of fun.

Pin 6 is to pin 17 (bridged pin 1 on X15) when i did this, the EML started

Guess you meant OBC pin 6 to fuse F17, so you wired straight from X15 pin 1 to OBC pin 6. If it lighted EML, it is because there is still wired in the connection from OBC pin 6 to unplugged connector X34, that should also be connected to some other wires to cluster. remove or cut any wire arriving to OBC pin 6 before connecting it to fuse F17 by tapping X15 pin 1 Green/Red wire.

Pin 8 is to pin 1 (bridged the braking light switch)

Guess you meant OBC pin 8 to fuse F1, so you tap straight from braking light switch Violet/Yellow wire (from Fuse F1) to OBC pin 8. Again, remove or cut any wire arriving to OBC pin 8 before connecting it to fuse F1 (trough brake light switch wire).

Pin 17 is jumped to pin 9

Guess you meant OBC pin 17 to OBC pin 9, should be straight, no other connections in pin 17, and pin 9 should also have a Red/Yellow wire connecting to X15 pin 21 to tap power from fuse F20. Again, no third wires connected from OBC pin 9 or pin 17 that may go to light switch.

Tried to take out the EML lights, but they werent usual bulbs, they were like smal LED`s mounted deep inside the plastic cover, so i just covered them with black tape.

No problem, if instructions about OBC pin 6 are meet, guess EML shouldn't light any more.

I changed the relays for the auto lights. Still dont work, but now they dont loop. Im guessing one of the relays were shot.

If you tell me how the rules are for Daylight running lights in your country, I can take a look at the drawings and give you instructions to wire them properly. 3 relays seems exaggerated. Need to know not only what lights to turn on, but also what causes them to turn on (engine running, key in to position ??, or so).

When i do the test no.9 on the OBC (voltage on pin 6/fuse 17) its Ok when the engine runs (about 13.8v) but when i turn the handbrake on, it drops to 10v, strange

Guess this is related to the weird connections on OBC pin 6 related to cluster and EML lights.

Javier

[Espen]

I thanks for a great answer again. Your knowledge of this is amazing.

You were right on your assumptions, I wrote just "pin 6 to pin17" i ment "obc pin6 to fuse 17" and so on. Must have been a bit tired when i wrote that.

I have ripped the whole daylight running system out of the car. The rules are that the headlights low beam and taillights should always be ON when engine is running. It was wired so that "Realy1" was giving power to Relay2 and Relay3 when engine was running. I assume Relay2 triggered frontlights, and relay3 taillights, anyway I have taken it all out now, as far as i know it is not really not forbidden to not have this installed..

When it comes to the EML I think you are right Ill try to cut of the wire to OBC pin 6 and 8 right after the obc connecter and lay a new cable from there, so that i wont be giving +12v to any other components, and that way i can take the piece of black tape out, i rellay dont like solutions like that...

After I got the daylight driving mess out, my Service intervall stopped flashing, and the voltage test stays on 13.5v even if the handbrake are on.

Ill go out and make the wiring to pin 6 and 8 the right way.

Thanks again.

Espen.

[Espen]

Now its all as it should be.

While i was monitoring fuel consumption and remaining fuel readings on the OBC i discovered that the "% fuel remaining" (test 7) is reading 10.0 all the time, even if i fill it all up, that means the range is allways displaying 100-113km (depends on my driving style)

Its OBC poin 12 and 26 that controlls the fuel level right? they are not going to the X34, so they should work.

[Javier]

cluster. Check you are wired properly from OBC to Cluster in those two lines. A constant reading should indicate open or misplaced wire, being the cluster working fine.

Javier

[Javier]

It is developed based on 1991 drawings, guess it may be applicable also to other years, will gladly review for any other interested.

For Headlights, you can simply connect together Yellow wire and Green/Blue wire in the back of the lights switch. This will have the headlights (low beams) turned on when key is in run and start, (and will energize High beams switch to be ready to turn on).

For the park/tail lights, you'll need a relay for each side of the car, as the feeder to the light switch is hot at all times, and are two different fuses for security reasons. For that, get two relays 4 pins, 2 for coil (+ Pin 86, and - Pin 85), and 2 for the power contact (Pins 30, and 87) then wire them as follows:

Relay 1:
Pin 86 should be wired to Green/Blue wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Red/Blue wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Gray/Yellow wire at the back of Lights switch.

Relay 2:
Pin 86 should be wired to Green/Blue wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Red/Gray wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Gray/Violet wire at the back of Lights switch.

Before making connections, you can confirm that jumping Green/Blue wire to Yellow wire turn on headlights, jumping Red/Blue wire to Gray/Yellow wire turn on Park/Tail right, and jumping Red/Gray wire to Gray/Violet wire turn on Park/Tail left.

This will turn on Headlights, Park Lights and Tail lights as soon as key reaches run position. If you live it there, and no engine start, you will end up with a dead battery.

If you want a more sophisticated array, you can use the Unloader relay to keep lights off until alternator start generating power, the disadvantage is that if you ever get a bad alternator wile running, you will have to turn on lights manually if you need them.

For this, you will need three four pin relays and the following connections:

Identify the Blue/White (Blue base white strip, not the opposite) wire going from the unloader relay to IHKAII climate control (pin 25 of X18158 connector). It is also at connector X35 pin 20, it is a black 21 pin connector below left hand of dash, near kick panel. This line is 12 Vdc as long as alternator is generating, so is on with engine running and off with engine not running, no mater the status of the key. This will be called Unloader relay Blue/White wire.

Wire relays as follows:

Relay 1:
Pin 86 should be wired to Unloader relay Blue/White wire.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Green/Blue wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Yellow wire at the back of Lights switch.

Relay 2:
Pin 86 should be wired to Unloader relay Blue/White wire.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Red/Blue wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Gray/Yellow wire at the back of Lights switch.

Relay 3:
Pin 86 should be wired to Unloader relay Blue/White wire.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Red/Gray wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Gray/Violet wire at the back of Lights switch.

This will have the lights on as soon as alternator kicks in.

Javier

[Espen]

Ok ill do that.. those pins are in the original wiring harness, i have not touched them :)

[Espen]

Hmm I didnt see your last post when i wrote my previous one..

You did a hell of a job writing down all that, Thanks!!!
Ill se if I can try to get it to work again when i get the time to do it, now im working alot this weekend. I think I will do the "unloader relay" version.. It seems more professional :D

The fuel rate is now working once i filled the tank up to full... The range still varies between 730km and 680 guess its because of varoius driving style, and the OBC is calculating the range continious.

[Javier]

available fuel and the recent average fuel consumption. In a long trip, with free run and traffic, you can see it varying significantly along the various stages.

The must funny thing is when you got 56 KM about 10 KM ago and now you have 63!!!

Javier

[Espen]

The must funny thing is when you got 56 KM about 10 KM ago and now you have 63!!!

Javier

Exactly! Thats tricked me to believe it was not working like it should be.

Iv`e wired it up and its working :D

Now the High beams are working also when engine is running and lightswitch is off. It didnt do that before.

Is there a way to wire the instrumentlightning to into those three relays so that my instrumentlights also are on at the same times as my mainbeam?

[Javier]

Now the High beams are working also when engine is running and lightswitch is off.

Only if lever is to the "High Beams On" position, just ready to go as I told you. No fogs though, for fogs you need to turn both switches on (Lights and Fogs).

Is there a way to wire the instrumentlightning to into those three relays so that my instrumentlights also are on at the same times as my mainbeam?

For instrument lights (and license plate lights) just jump from Gray/Yellow wire already in pin 87 of relay 2, to Gray/Black wire in the back of Light Switch. Again, you can test before connecting, verify that feeding (connecting to Red/Blue for example) the Gray/Black wire will turn on License plate and instrument lights. The jumper it self won't do nothing until engine is running. Attention, Relay contact should be capable of handling 10 Amps, just as fuse F5.

If you keep all your wires connected in the back of the Light switch, you will be able to operate lights as usual, when alternator fails, so do not disconnect them from light switch.

Javier

[Espen]

Hmm are you the Electrical oracle? :)

Ill try to jump Gray/Yellow to Gray/Black. To get the instrument lights on as well.. But do you think it will be to much for the relay?

I discovered another thing. If i move the light switch to "park light" position the mainbeams still stay on... Is this right? Sometimes i like to drive with the combination of parklights and foglights, this seams hard now...

[Javier]

is 10 amp 12 Vdc or higher. This is not much load.

Understood that Low Beams should be always on wile the car is running (by law) and that is what I wired for. Canada, per my 1991 e34 drawings, does not require but the parking lights, so Head lights work as desired with Light switch.

If you do not need by law to turn on Head lights, I would remove completely relay number 1 and keep the low beams off until needed, under this conception, the DRL will only light on Park/tail lights and interior/license lights. (energy saving, light bulb life saving, ....)

If you insist in having what you requested, I would recommend as follows:

Get a fourth relay with five pins (change over) as indicated in the picture, and rewire the system as follows:

Relay 1:
Pin 86 should be wired to Pin 87a of Relay 4
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Green/Blue wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Yellow wire at the back of Lights switch.

Relay 2:
Pin 86 should be wired to Unloader relay Blue/White wire.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Red/Blue wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Gray/Yellow wire at the back of Lights switch.

Relay 3:
Pin 86 should be wired to Unloader relay Blue/White wire.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Red/Gray wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 87 should be wired to Gray/Violet wire at the back of Lights switch.

Relay 4:
Pin 86 should be wired to Yellow/Violet wire at the back of Lights switch.
Pin 85 should be wired to a good ground.
Pin 30 should be wired to Unloader relay Blue/White wire. (get this lead
from pervious wiring of relay 1)
Pin 87a should be wired to Pin 86 of Relay 1

Note relays 2 and 3 remain the same.

This way, as soon as you move lights switch to position one, the low beams turn off, and if you move it out of position 1 (0 or 2) they will be back on. Again, keep the light switch wires connected as they were originally. Only tap from them.

Best luck!
Javier

Edit: Also attached an operation Truth Table of the system. Check this is what you need.

[Espen]

Hi there.

Sorry, I might explained it bad earlier, its forbidden to drive without lights here in Norway, but its not forbidden to able to turn mainbeams off. The combo of parklights and foglights is allowed during daytime.

So i want the mainbeam to be on when engine is running and lighstswitch is in pos 0. in pos 1 i want only parklights/foglights and pos 2 mainbeam again. I guess this is what the 4th relay is doing.

Ill go outside and try to rewire it again, i have a 5 pin relay allready. pin87a is for the Relay1 pin86 , but what about pin87?

Another funny thing:
I was gonna install my outside temp sensor today, but when i removed tha cover on my frontbumper i saw a tempsensor allready installed.. This is weird as my car did only have the analouge clock. I tried to follow the wires from the sensonr but the went in front of the radioator, and i didnt want to remove it.. So i wired new ones from pin5 OBC to tempsensor, and grounded the second pin from sensor, but it still says -37C.


You have really helped me out allot here, you should know that I am glad for that, is there a way to thank you?

[Javier]

And yes, the fourth relay is there to cut the Automatic turn on for low beams when the lights switch is to 1 or 2.

Regarding the sensor, my car takes a couple minutes to remove the low temp warning when I reconnect the probe (typically after front bumper reinstallation).

You already did thank me, I'm glad to know I helped. This is why we are here for.

Javier

[Espen]

All wired and its working just the I wanted it, thanks again, Javier :)

The 4th relay is getting kinda warm... maybe its because my heater was on, but it was close to getting painfull when I touched it. Ill change it with a new relay tomorrow, the one I inserted was a old spare..

Bytheway: the lightbulb inside the lightswitch, is it changeable? Mine just stopped working..

[Javier]

or wrong wired. Check carefully the wiring.

Regarding the bulb, I suggest to do a serach on ** Bulbs Switch **. This is an old post from Russell about Radio Shack mini bulbs. Sure you can do a similar fix. You'll need some soldering job, but will work.

Javier

[Espen]

I found Russells post.. I might try to get some mini bulbs or maybe LED`s.

If the relays were wrong wired would it have worked then? Since everything is working I assume that its correctly wired.
Maybe its because of the highbeams that cause alot of power to go through the relays?

edit:
I bought a new 5pin changeover relay, and now it seems that the temp is cooler...

edit2:
In the store where i bought the relay the asked me why i dint install a DLR relay, its a 6 pin relay special designed for daylight running lights, that way I dont need 4 independent relays.

[Javier]

fortunately, the search function worked.

Regarding the hot relay 4, it is only managing control currents, self coil current when energized at lights switch on positions, and coil current for relay 1 when de-energizad at lights switch off position. That is the reason I asked to take a look at the wiring. If it is feeding something besides the relay 1 coil, then it might be hot at de-energized state. Being energized, can not be hot as we did not wired 87.

The high beams, low beams and fog lights current are managed on relays inside the LKM, not the lights switch nor the new relays.

Relays 2 and 3 for park/tail/interior and license lights do handle bulb power though, but they share the load, so as long as contact rating is around 10 amps should be OK.

A double contact (DPST, 6 pins) relay would have replaced the relays 2 and 3, as they share the same control signal, a triple contact would have replaced 1, 2, 3 with a different wiring for relay 4 (using relay 4 to interrupt power path of relay 1 function instead of control path). Guess I did suggested what was more handy. If you feel the need to optimize, let me know what you have a available regarding multiple contact relays.

BMW Canada version uses two relays (2 and 3) hooked from the key in run signal from F2 trough a coding diode. They use a DPDT for Park/tail right and interior/license, and a SPDT for Park/Tail left, no low beams though. Guess this way a compromised relay will only turn off one side (so safety reasons?).



Javier

[Espen]

Actually the last wiringdiagram you wrote is working perfectly, so i see no need to use a multi contact relay, besides that i will have a "cleaner" wiring, it looks kinda messy with 4 relays and 10-15 wires going into them. Im just alittle afraid of my car starting to burn.. Ive seen examples of car that burnt down because of messy wiring..

Ill go buy a DRL relay to morrow just to see if we could get it to work. Im not sure if it had 6 or 7 pins, but either way i would need the Relay4 ?

[Javier]

If DRL relay has 6 pins, guess it should be a coil and two single trough contacts relay. Picture shows a two contacts and a three contacts. If you get one with three contacts you will need only it, and your new relay 4. For a two contact you will still need 1 and 4.

But, to the new three contact will still be arriving 9 wires. Normally, multiple contact relays have very tiny pins and contacts, so be sure each contact withstands at least 10A at 12 Vdc.

Let me know what you got and will work something.

Fire risk is only there if damaged insulation, or low rated contacts. If relays operated at good temp, and the system is properly insulated, you should have no problem.

Javier

Edit: By the way, what is the status of OBC temp. probe.

[Espen]

I didnt have the time to wire up the wire to the temp sensor so I`ll do that tomorrow, I am still not sure if it works, I fitted it inside the car temporarly to X34 and ground, but it still sayed -37Celisius. I`ll come back with a status on that one tomorrow.

When it comes to the DRL relay im not sure if it had 6 or 10 pins.. When you say "be sure each contact withstands at least 10A at 12 Vdc" what does it mean? Should I ask the guy in the store for this information? The other relays I bought there was good for about 30A.

[Javier]

specialy if it is an aftermarket item.

For temp sensor, just be sure that X34 2, is connected to OBC pin 5, and that you have a good ground for the other sensor pin. Leave it connected for a wile before taking any decision, as I told you, mine takes its time to remove the warning.

Javier

[Espen]

Ok here it is.

I got this relay, it seems like its just 2 ordinary relays in the same "box"
http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/drl/m1.jpg

http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/drl/m2.jpg

Here is the drawing, did a quick translation to english:
http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/drl/m3.jpg

This will only replace my relay 2 and 3, so its not the one i want. Maybe ill just stick with the sollution you made, its working nice!

[Espen]

Another shop had this DRL relay...:
http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/drl/b1.jpg

http://filserver.pyrabel.net/bilder/e34/drl/b2.jpg

This one i didnt understand.. It had pin 30, 56, pin P and pin S.
And it had a 6k diode on it.
This shop could order a DRL specific for the BMW e34.. i told them to do that so that i could have a look at it.. But it was expensive, about 800 NOK (100€ or 100$ )

[Javier]

2 in 1 relay, it can substitute function of relay 2 and 3, the instructions (as translated), can not be OK, as only two contacts can not manage three different lighting circuits (high, Low, Park). Additionally, as you already know, park/tail lights are in two different circuits, one left and one right side. Can not mix them in the same contact, otherwise some other functions may be affected. I'm afraid now, that mixing interior and right parking lights in the same relay output will include interior lights in the "parking single side lights on" feature.

Please check you are not powering interior lights wile right side parking lights (Car off, side signaling lever to right). To remove these problem, we have to insert a diode from the Relay 2 pin 87 to Gray/Yellow wire in lights switch. Then this Relay 2 pin 87 will be connected as follow: Pin 87 to Gray/Black wire and Diode anode (Triangle), Diode cathode (bar) to the Gray/Yellow wire. This diode will prevent back feeding the Interior lights from the parking circuit.

The second relay seems like a single changeover relay (like number 4) the diode may be in parallel to the coil, if so, it is there to prevent electronic driver damage on the over voltage produced by the coil when de-energized. Again, I don't think it will do nothing better for you.

Javier

[Espen]

I dropped the interior light, so that is not a issue anymore..
But why is there a circuit for each side? Is there a function that will turn on only one single side at a time?

The instructions was ackward, i know. I asked the guy in the store several times if this is the right papersheet.. He said it was. Im gonna give the kit back to the shop tomorrow.

And I`ll be just fine with my setup as it is for now. The warmth in relay 4 is gone after changing it to a new one.

The tempprobe is workin :) fitted it inside my car just to test and after 3-4minutes it started dropping from -37 and down... Its about +40 C under my steeringwheel when the heater is on full heat. Outside there was about -15 degree....

Ill come back tomorrow with some pictures of the "BMW e34 DRL" relay I ordered.

[Javier]

I believe there are two reasons for them to be independent circuits, one is the parking single side lights on (operated with the side markers lever), the other is safety, as they are fused apart, if you got issues with one tail light the other will survive.

I dropped the interior light, so that is not a issue anymore. But why is there a circuit for each side? Is there a function that will turn on only one single side at a time?

If you want them back, is as simple as to insert a diode in the way, a rough one, better if 7.5 amps or more, but low reverse peak voltage ( 24 V is enough). Of course, a fifth relay dedicated to interior lights only will do also, but, honestly, I can imagine the mess it is now with 4 relays, wouldn't like to add a 5th one.

Javier

[Espen]

;) a fifth one would not fit.
I`taped them together so that they are a 10cm long stick of relays.. with a fifth one they wouldnt have fittet under my preamp for the cd changer.

If I had fixed the interior light to this setup, then i would end up not needing the light switch at all... :) except for the park lights.


I believe there are two reasons for them to be independent circuits, one is the parking single side lights on (operated with the side markers lever)

Can I turn on the parklights on just one side at the time with the turnsignal switch?

Im on my way out to get the E34 DRL relay now, Ill come back with some pictures for you in a moment.

Thanks again Javier.

[Javier]

you will have park lights and tail lights of that side ON, this will allow other cars to see you easily in dark road side parking areas.

Javier

[BigTed00]

been following this thread for a while and there is some amazing info in here. I wanted to chime in real fast to maytbe help future readers. I too had the PPPP error on the OBC and tried many of the fixes with no success. However lo and behold after replacing the fusible link, the PPPP error dissapeared instantly and has been working flawlessly ever since. I didnt have any other symptoms of fusible link failure when the OBC went PPPP, so there is no way I could have know. Worth a try for 10 minutes and $1

[genphreak]

been following this thread for a while and there is some amazing info in here. I wanted to chime in real fast to maytbe help future readers. I too had the PPPP error on the OBC and tried many of the fixes with no success. However lo and behold after replacing the fusible link, the PPPP error dissapeared instantly and has been working flawlessly ever since. I didnt have any other symptoms of fusible link failure when the OBC went PPPP, so there is no way I could have know. Worth a try for 10 minutes and $1Yep same me. My power locking, radio, wipers, sunroof, windows and interior lights all died. Replaced the 50A fusible link and its fixed now:) Yay!!