Life Time Transmission - Changing ATF

[shield17]

I have been told and read several opinions on changing the ATF in the sealed "Lifetime" Transmissions. I have a 1993 525i with a sealed tranny. I find it most ridiculous that you are not to change the ATF. I have been told by a local BMW dealer that if it is necessary to do tranny work they save the old ATF and put it back in! I was shocked. They state that replacing with fresh will cause the tranny to fail and then bleed out like a hemophiliac! The Bentley Book states to stay away from it, that a dealer has to use NASA technology just to check the level. I currently do not have any problems - Knock Wood! but I am LOOKING FOR EVERYONE'S OPINIONS! THANKS MUCH..

[Tiger]

We had a long discussion about this... on 540i... same application to here... a week and half ago... search for it. It is the filter that need to be changed... and I don't believe in lifetime crap.

[WarrenBrown]

The fluid is intended to be replaced every Inspection II. It only requires that the car be level and the transmission be up to temp. With the engine running in neutral fluid should spill from the fill plug. It takes Dexron II. No way was it lifetime fluid. Really not difficult.

Having said that some folks suggest not changing it in high mileage cars that haven’t been treated to regular fluid changes.

I changed mine at 40K and then at 75K. I used some kind of Castrol Dexron II/III synthetic. Also changed the filter. I think I'm going to start doing every 20K or once a year.

Warren
91 318is
95 525iT

[Dick Schneiders]

The only E34's with the "lifetime" fluid are the 540's. Your tranny has a removeable plug where you both check the fluid level and top off or replace the fluid. Not sealed at all. You don't have a dipstick/fill tube, like on both of my 1991 525i's, but other than that your tranny is exactly the same as mine. What you have been told, or understood to have been told, is totally wrong. The fluid used in your tranny is normal Dexron III, which is not saved and needs to be replaced frequently. Different people feel the fluid needs to be changed at different intervals, but certainly it should be changed every 40,000 miles, and more often would be better.



I have been told and read several opinions on changing the ATF in the sealed "Lifetime" Transmissions. I have a 1993 525i with a sealed tranny. I find it most ridiculous that you are not to change the ATF. I have been told by a local BMW dealer that if it is necessary to do tranny work they save the old ATF and put it back in! I was shocked. They state that replacing with fresh will cause the tranny to fail and then bleed out like a hemophiliac! The Bentley Book states to stay away from it, that a dealer has to use NASA technology just to check the level. I currently do not have any problems - Knock Wood! but I am LOOKING FOR EVERYONE'S OPINIONS! THANKS MUCH..

[Dick Schneiders]

Even on the trannys with the "lifetime" fluid, they give a procedure for changing the fluid. For your tranny, they have a very straightforeward and simple method for both checking and changing the fluid and filter.


The only E34's with the "lifetime" fluid are the 540's. Your tranny has a removeable plug where you both check the fluid level and top off or replace the fluid. Not sealed at all. You don't have a dipstick/fill tube, like on both of my 1991 525i's, but other than that your tranny is exactly the same as mine. What you have been told, or understood to have been told, is totally wrong. The fluid used in your tranny is normal Dexron III, which is not saved and needs to be replaced frequently. Different people feel the fluid needs to be changed at different intervals, but certainly it should be changed every 40,000 miles, and more often would be better.

[ryan roopnarine]

have a doubt as to what is in there after extracting it (ie dextron or not)...id take a sample down to the dealer and see if the techs there can't determine for you whether or not its the lifetime.....the chances that you have the the lifetime are minute....methinks that the only 525is with lifetime fluid are bmw factory new units replaced after 1997...my tranny was replaced at 70k by previous owner..at 115k now, so i change tranny fluid with cheap stuff at every oil change....i have a dipstick on my 92 525i so things are easier for me though.

[Bill R.]

http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/transfluid1.jpg
see if calls for conventional dexron mercon fluid not the lifetime fluid that the 540 uses. Its a so called sealed trans but should still be changed to maximum life. Here is the level checking procedure for yours without the dipstick.http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/translevel-1.jpg

















I have been told and read several opinions on changing the ATF in the sealed "Lifetime" Transmissions. I have a 1993 525i with a sealed tranny. I find it most ridiculous that you are not to change the ATF. I have been told by a local BMW dealer that if it is necessary to do tranny work they save the old ATF and put it back in! I was shocked. They state that replacing with fresh will cause the tranny to fail and then bleed out like a hemophiliac! The Bentley Book states to stay away from it, that a dealer has to use NASA technology just to check the level. I currently do not have any problems - Knock Wood! but I am LOOKING FOR EVERYONE'S OPINIONS! THANKS MUCH..

[Dick Schneiders]

it and was unable to quickly locate it. :-)

I am curious why you choose to use the words "Its a so called sealed trans". Where does that come from? Do you think this for just those without the dipstick/fill tube? Both of my 1991 525i's have the dipstick/fill tube, but they are the exact same tranny as on the one being discussed (also confirmed by your chart). Why would this one be called sealed by anybody and not those with the dipstick? Or do you also call those with the dipstick "sealed". This is, in my opinion, a dangerous choice of words for these trannys, as most people upon hearing them will assume that they don't need to change the fluid or filter.

If these trannys can be called sealed, then any tranny could be called sealed.


see if calls for conventional dexron mercon fluid not the lifetime fluid that the 540 uses. Its a so called sealed trans but should still be changed to maximum life. Here is the level checking procedure for yours without the dipstick.http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/translevel-1.jpg[/QUOTE]

[Bill R.]

they came up with what I called the so called sealed tranny... I suspect but have no idea if its correct or not that they had enough problems with tech's and various lube places getting the level incorrect that they went to the setup without the dipstick.. There are a number of bulletins about problems that occur on this trans and it seems to me that they always mention making sure the fluid level was checked correctly and at the right temp... leading me to believe that this trans is very sensitive to having the fluid level exact.. Pure conjecture on my part... Also isuzu didn't eliminate the dipstick on theirs and it uses the same trans. So bmw may have felt that the average smoe was just going to screw it up so lets take the dipstick away.. Thats what i meant by so called sealed.. I don't feel that anything is lifetime myself and always prefer to service them. However I do agree that I would only use the specified fluid in the 540 which is the shell la 2634, bmw and zf are pretty adamant about this.. Anyway here is the procedure for checking yours with the dipstick, you can see how particular they are about the temp of the fluid and the measurement of height on the dipstick... http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/translevel2-1.jpg












[QUOTE=Dick Schneiders]it and was unable to quickly locate it. :-)

I am curious why you choose to use the words "Its a so called sealed trans". Where does that come from? Do you think this for just those without the dipstick/fill tube? Both of my 1991 525i's have the dipstick/fill tube, but they are the exact same tranny as on the one being discussed (also confirmed by your chart). Why would this one be called sealed by anybody and not those with the dipstick? Or do you also call those with the dipstick "sealed". This is, in my opinion, a dangerous choice of words for these trannys, as most people upon hearing them will assume that they don't need to change the fluid or filter.

If these trannys can be called sealed, then any tranny could be called sealed.


s

[Dick Schneiders]

What is that information on the right side of the instructions on how to check the fluid on a tranny with the dipstick? The part about if the level is too low, then valve chatter might occur and if too high, then you might have foam and a hotter running engine ! That really confuses me as that seems to be referring to *engine* oil and not tranny fluid. Did something get added to the instructions in error?


they came up with what I called the so called sealed tranny... I suspect but have no idea if its correct or not that they had enough problems with tech's and various lube places getting the level incorrect that they went to the setup without the dipstick.. There are a number of bulletins about problems that occur on this trans and it seems to me that they always mention making sure the fluid level was checked correctly and at the right temp... leading me to believe that this trans is very sensitive to having the fluid level exact.. Pure conjecture on my part... Also isuzu didn't eliminate the dipstick on theirs and it uses the same trans. So bmw may have felt that the average smoe was just going to screw it up so lets take the dipstick away.. Thats what i meant by so called sealed.. I don't feel that anything is lifetime myself and always prefer to service them. However I do agree that I would only use the specified fluid in the 540 which is the shell la 2634, bmw and zf are pretty adamant about this.. Anyway here is the procedure for checking yours with the dipstick, you can see how particular they are about the temp of the fluid and the measurement of height on the dipstick... http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/translevel2-1.jpg












[QUOTE=Dick Schneiders]it and was unable to quickly locate it. :-)

I am curious why you choose to use the words "Its a so called sealed trans". Where does that come from? Do you think this for just those without the dipstick/fill tube? Both of my 1991 525i's have the dipstick/fill tube, but they are the exact same tranny as on the one being discussed (also confirmed by your chart). Why would this one be called sealed by anybody and not those with the dipstick? Or do you also call those with the dipstick "sealed". This is, in my opinion, a dangerous choice of words for these trannys, as most people upon hearing them will assume that they don't need to change the fluid or filter.

If these trannys can be called sealed, then any tranny could be called sealed.


s

[Bill R.]

valve body and trans itself.. and the overfilling will definitely foam and blow out the over flow valve... I don't know about the engine running hotter at higher speeds but I would guess they know what they are talking about..Only reason I can come up with is increased drag from rotating compenents running in fluid. similar to the reason you knifedge a crank or go to a dry sump system...





What is that information on the right side of the instructions on how to check the fluid on a tranny with the dipstick? The part about if the level is too low, then valve chatter might occur and if too high, then you might have foam and a hotter running engine ! That really confuses me as that seems to be referring to *engine* oil and not tranny fluid. Did something get added to the instructions in error?

[93-525i]

Hey Guys,

I just got a 93 525i about two weeks ago and want to do some preventive maintanance, one of which is a trans fluid change. I have read everything on this board about the change and this thread seems to be the most informative. My question is, If I am changing the trans fluid, and I drain it when the fluid is cold, is this not the ideal situation since the fluid you're putting in is cold as well? This way you take the guesswork out of how much you need. You just put in as much as you take out as long as the fluid id roughly the same temp? I would think that if the trans in the car is hot, and you put in cold fluid, quart for quar, you'll be off?

Thanks,

Jerry

[dacoyote]

Small Thread Stealing Issue

Since I got the car about 2 years ago and 40k miles ago, the tranny has shifted back and forth like it cannot make up it's mind what gear it whats to be in some of the times. It used to do that under certian loads and places, however it has now started doing it a lot.

The car is going to be under repair all winter in the shop of Charles, is it worth spending the time to change the filter and the tans fluid that comes out with it? I know the temp of the fluid counts and the entire keep it level thing.

Any thing else to think about?

Should I just take it to KMS?

-Charles

[Kalevera]

Jerry...

Fluids should generally be removed when warm to aid in draining.

You can try refilling it without turning the engine on (and hence, getting the trans warm). I'll guarantee that it'll be practically impossible to do -- fluid level in the pan has little to do with what's in the rest of the trans/itself.

Unless you're out to lunch the trans, this is something you don't want to skimp on (not that you want to skimp on anything else with these cars, anyway ;) ).

best, whit



Hey Guys,

I just got a 93 525i about two weeks ago and want to do some preventive maintanance, one of which is a trans fluid change. I have read everything on this board about the change and this thread seems to be the most informative. My question is, If I am changing the trans fluid, and I drain it when the fluid is cold, is this not the ideal situation since the fluid you're putting in is cold as well? This way you take the guesswork out of how much you need. You just put in as much as you take out as long as the fluid id roughly the same temp? I would think that if the trans in the car is hot, and you put in cold fluid, quart for quar, you'll be off?

Thanks,

Jerry

[Kalevera]

Charles...

From what I remember, we touched on this last time you were at the shop? I also don't recall any associated fault codes.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/suzpectx/pendulumshifting1TIS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/suzpectx/pendulumshifting2TIS.jpg


best, whit

[dacoyote]

Charles...

From what I remember, we touched on this last time you were at the shop? I also don't recall any associated fault codes.


best, whit

Yeah, I didn't have any error codes, at least not that I know of.

However stuff like this makes me wonder if something is going on, as the coil's didn't create a CEL nor did my Crank Position Sensor that BimmerD00d got for me when I was at the meet.

I would assume I looking at number 1, how hard is that to fix?
edit: ok.. how does one check that part while going down the road at 55 uphill?

I will look in Bentley in a bit, but I am not sure thats going to be in it.

I will also go check the serial number on the trans, is it something I can find crawing under the car?

edit: google for a4s 310r pendulum shifting turns up talk about rebuilt transmissions and the like. I have done a couple rebuilds tranny and engine rebuilds however the the newest was 67. So is it worth it to start looking on ebay for one to rebuild? or is it going to be way out of the range of what I can do? (with months to do it in)

-Charles

[western99]

It now has 220k kms on it with no problems. lets hope it stays that way.

Brian

[dacoyote]

It now has 220k kms on it with no problems. lets hope it stays that way.

Brian

Do you take the temp, or do you just stick back in the amount you take out?

-Charles

[Kalevera]

Yeah, I didn't have any error codes, at least not that I know of.

However stuff like this makes me wonder if something is going on, as the coil's didn't create a CEL nor did my Crank Position Sensor that BimmerD00d got for me when I was at the meet.

I would assume I looking at number 1, how hard is that to fix?
edit: ok.. how does one check that part while going down the road at 55 uphill?

I will look in Bentley in a bit, but I am not sure thats going to be in it.

I will also go check the serial number on the trans, is it something I can find crawing under the car?

edit: google for a4s 310r pendulum shifting turns up talk about rebuilt transmissions and the like. I have done a couple rebuilds tranny and engine rebuilds however the the newest was 67. So is it worth it to start looking on ebay for one to rebuild? or is it going to be way out of the range of what I can do? (with months to do it in)

-Charles
IT should be no problem if you've rebuilt trannies in the past. BMW calls for special tools when working on the GMs, but who knows...creativity could result in a workaround.

What was wrong with the CPS?

best, whit

[dacoyote]

IT should be no problem if you've rebuilt trannies in the past. BMW calls for special tools when working on the GMs, but who knows...creativity could result in a workaround.

What was wrong with the CPS?

best, whit

He didn't say, other then it was creating a code.

Didn't even have a check engine light, and I have never been able to get the stomp test to work in my car (may be something with my starter switch setup). Car to run... gas petal to the floor 5 times.. watch the flashes correct?

I haven't had the chance to mess with it, car has to make it on 2 maybe 3 more trips then it's parked till I have the time to mess with it.

I plan on calling BMA tomarrow morning to get the part.

Thanks

-Charles

[Kalevera]

The pedal takes some finesse, but the process is right on point.

best, whit


He didn't say, other then it was creating a code.

Didn't even have a check engine light, and I have never been able to get the stomp test to work in my car (may be something with my starter switch setup). Car to run... gas petal to the floor 5 times.. watch the flashes correct?

I haven't had the chance to mess with it, car has to make it on 2 maybe 3 more trips then it's parked till I have the time to mess with it.

I plan on calling BMA tomarrow morning to get the part.

Thanks

-Charles

[dacoyote]

The pedal takes some finesse, but the process is right on point.

best, whit

The car is on my slist....

So I went out and tired again...

and what I got doesn't make sense to me...

5 second on...

Then a loop of

Short On 1sec off Long On 1sec off Short On 1sec off Long On really long off

and then again. It did it 5 times before I turned the car off.

Anyone have any ideas?

-Charles