Immediate help on my 525 1992 follow-up

[Saleswman525]

Hey Gang,

Ok...this is where we are...replaced the spark plugs, battery, have spark from engine so it does not appear to be electical. Ckd the crank shaft.....ok. Could this be a cracked head? Hubby was holding the gas down to start the car, well it turned over but did not start. Smelled gas, probably flooded it good......

1, How do I fix the flooding?
2. Symptoms of a cracked head?
3. Transprogram mode code
4 check control code came on today

Help.....he wants to sell her....and I am having a cow.....

Thanks,
Shirley

[Saleswman525]

Help...where are all my new friends when I need them???? Tried the "stomp" test...can not get any codes to come up...dahh I know it is the timing of the blinking...but nothing.....

I am glad it is not a convertible....cuz with the weather in Atlanta.....I would be history today!!!!

Seriously.....I need help!!!

[Warren N.CA]

Think you should check Crankshaft position sensor, and make the usual checks of the fuel delivery system. For this project, you will need a Bentley repair manual for guidance.

It really isn't good to let a car sit six months without driving. You probably have multiple problems to deal with. And when they happen all at once, things can get pretty "involved."

When's the last time the fuel filter was changed? Is all service up to date? If not, bring everything up to date.



Hey Gang,

Ok...this is where we are...replaced the spark plugs, battery, have spark from engine so it does not appear to be electical. Ckd the crank shaft.....ok. Could this be a cracked head? Hubby was holding the gas down to start the car, well it turned over but did not start. Smelled gas, probably flooded it good......

1, How do I fix the flooding?
2. Symptoms of a cracked head?
3. Transprogram mode code
4 check control code came on today

Help.....he wants to sell her....and I am having a cow.....

Thanks,
Shirley

[Javier]

Are you sure you have spark in the plugs? Are you sure you got fuel in the engine? God, fuel and spark should do something, even with a cracked head, does it or it is just dead?

This is my follow list for dead engine.

Check all related fuses, ignition, fuel System, DME, critical relays, ...

Bypass the fuel relay to hear the hissing produced by the pumped fuel on the injector rail pressure regulator. Though you referred flooding, may be you are leaking fuel somewhere but fuel is not circulating the injectors rail.

Check for spark in the plugs, hear recently that it is a hard thing to do on a 525 (I have a 535), but be creative, with an old sparkplug, it should be possible to connect a coil output to it, ground the plug threads and look for consistent spark while cranking.

Check for injectors operation, having fuel in the rail does not necessarily means it is reaching the engine, you may have no pulses to the injectors.

If pump is pumping and no spark. I would give highest priority to check the Crankshaft Position Sensor. With a tester, you should get about 400 to 600 ohms between two of the leads and an open circuit to the third lead running the shield. Normally, it is typically way off if damaged (Open circuit between all the leads or short circuit between any two of them). Take the opportunity and check also the Camshaft position sensor. Normally, the connectors are placed one besides the other.

Good luck

[Trevor]

Check www.bmwe34.net for most of your troubleshooting (inlcuding trans program code.
I hope hubby realises that losing the E34 is not worth a divorce....

Good luck

[Saleswman525]

Javier,

I am just sick. We found spark to the plugs so that is ok. The car sat because it had a "trans code" and we were told it was the transmission. I bought if from a guy in Texas and had it shipped to Atlanta. I was prepared to figure out any tranny issue, but now I think it is more than that. It only has 100K on it and I thought it did not have anything other than the trans to worry about. But, I worry now that we have bought something more. From all the receipts with the car, it appears to be well taken care of. Hubby is an "american car" guy, but does know alot about cars....this is not making sense. If I have a cracked head or "ring" issues, it will be more than I can afford to fix.....I am just sick about it......I have always wanted a 525 and thought that this was going to be my own little red car....I dont know what to do but cry right now....sorry to be such a sissy.....but it seems when it rains it pours....

It was smoking from the tail pipe too, a little....not sure what that means.....either...

Any help would be appreciated.....

Shirley

[Saleswman525]

Check www.bmwe34.net for most of your troubleshooting (inlcuding trans program code.
I hope hubby realises that losing the E34 is not worth a divorce....

Good luck


Trevor,

I have looked there but to no avail.......heck the BMW is mine.....and divorce well....been there done that.......

I think I need a drink.....and I don't even drink.....

Seems the symptoms don't fit the troubleshooting board. :(

[MarkD]

Javier,

I am just sick. We found spark to the plugs so that is ok. The car sat because it had a "trans code" and we were told it was the transmission. I bought if from a guy in Texas and had it shipped to Atlanta. I was prepared to figure out any tranny issue, but now I think it is more than that. It only has 100K on it and I thought it did not have anything other than the trans to worry about. But, I worry now that we have bought something more. From all the receipts with the car, it appears to be well taken care of. Hubby is an "american car" guy, but does know alot about cars....this is not making sense. If I have a cracked head or "ring" issues, it will be more than I can afford to fix.....I am just sick about it......I have always wanted a 525 and thought that this was going to be my own little red car....I dont know what to do but cry right now....sorry to be such a sissy.....but it seems when it rains it pours....

It was smoking from the tail pipe too, a little....not sure what that means.....either...

Any help would be appreciated.....

Shirley

Hi Shirley,

sorry I can't figure out what's wrong with your car right now but you should give up for today. Get in your husband's car and drive over to Buckhead and go eat dinner at Bones! That's what I would do if I was an Altanta. I still remember the great dinners I has there.

Mark

[George M]

Shirley,
Know you are going through a tough spell...a couple of comments. You are in over your head. Don't think this board can help you based upon what you have written so far relative to the advice you have gleaned. Believe many of us could fix your car if we were there but don't think we can arm chair it for you on-line. The basic premise for using this forum for advice is you almost have to be a bit of a motor head to apply the advice and respectfully you are not. As to hubby knowing about "American cars"... Cars are cars. If you can fix an American car you sure can fix a 525i...they are pretty simple...same concepts apply. Again, please don't take this wrong, I just believe you may be wasting time if you want to get your car back on the road. If you are ernest about doing so, purchase a Bentley shop manual and start working through the troubleshooting sections...your best bet without a sense of urgency or dispair. As to your trans issue, which could be something as benign as a low battery, failing alternator, failing voltage regulator, corroded serial connector, failing trans computer, failing trans select switch or perhaps a mechanical malfunction within the trans....all these things need to be systematically exhausted/eliminated step by step. You probably don't have the resources to address either the engine or trans diagnostics therefore I suggest you have a heart to heart with hubby and take it to a mechanic.
Please take this positively from a guy who knows a bit about these cars.
Lastly, I would not dispair about your baby. A skilled mechanic should be able to get it up and running in no time and hopefully as minimal cost. If you can't afford to have an aging BMW worked on and you don't have the requiste skills to fix it, you probably did buy the wrong car and sure isn't worth upsetting your relationship with your s/o.
Good Luck,
George

[Brandon J]

Make sure that you turn the ignition key to the second position, where the key is in position when the car is running. Do not turn the car on. Then, push the pedal all the way 5 time quickly, but not too quickly. At this time the check engine light should begin flashing.Don't forget that your car is fuel injected. It doesn't flood like 'ol american carburetors. You may smell the fuel b/c fuel is injected upon start-up, but it is not burned and gets pushed out the exhaust unburned.

[winfred]

if you know for sure that you have spark the crank position sensor is doing it's job, have you ever driven it? or did it just show up with a "bad tranny"? id start by checking all of the fuses, sometimes they corrode, and get weak

[Saleswman525]

Brandon,

Thanks I will re-try that again tomorrow.

Shirley

[Saleswman525]

George,

Thanks for you kind words......I have every intention of buying a Bentley's manual and going thru the diagnostics. I will however be an "educated" bmw owner before I send it off to the repair shop. And if with the help of the forum I can remedy some of my issues that would be great.

If I am offending any of the members by asking some diagnostic questions then I apologize. I have already gotten very valuable info from several people and have tried each one of their suggestions.

I have gotten a few more "symptoms" with this car but feel now that maybe I should just hope someone else will post the same and I can read and learn that way.

I guess I used the board to learn about my 525, hoping that others had the same symptoms with there cars at some time or another.

Oh well......I will figure it out.

Shirley

Thanks,
Shirley

[George M]

Hi Shirley,
You certainly didn't offend anybody on the forum...on the contrary, everyone here would like to help you out. Your posting did seem to have a sense of urgency to it which isn't really compatible with working through both the engine problems you state plus the trans message, particularly someone not used to working on these cars. You need some time to develop your learning curve and check a number of things in a strategic manner to resolve your problems...but they can clearly be resolved. A Bentley manual and a multimeter will go a long way to working through the engine management. You can perform a leak down test or compression test to assess the overall mechanical condition of the engine.
Good Luck,
George

[winfred]

Saleswman525 i replyed to your PM

[Tiger]

Shirley, let's take it from the top... okay? Now we all need some informations... detailed information from you about your car. Let's start with the most basic...

1. When did you buy the car?
2. What problem did it have before you buy it?
3. You said you bought the car from TX... but u are in FL? How was it transported?
4. Was the car ever running in your posession? How long?
5. How long did your car sit? (this is usually not a problem)
6. How did you check for spark?
7. Did you check the crank position sensor resistance? What was the reading?
8. Let's start with the above. Any little info you might thing is not important is probably very important thing we need to know.

[Tiger]

Guys... I need to know... 1992 525i have timing chain right? I want to eliminate the possibility if belt timing...

[winfred]

twin cam got da chain

[Tiger]

Thanks... timing chain would not be a problem...

[632 Regal]

Shirley,

what about $hit fuel...basics here, the car was from texas and transported what last year? how long did it sit there with old fuel and how long did it sit here? It could (I know I'll shut up in a minute) be a stupid as old fuel, in there. These cars have a drain plug on the tanks to drain old fuel/water out. Wait till hubby hears that one! Drain/fill/flush the old fuel out of the injector lines then try again.

Smoke out the tailpipe could mean flooded with fuel that wont burn, that again is my guess. Do not try to start it with the peddle down! That ads fuel to the...well...adds fuel to an otherwise flooded engine.

A low battery could produce spark on a plug out of the engine but put some compression on it and maybe it blows the spark out? Old weak battery+old un-ran bimmer=no run bimmer.

I'm also an old chevy kinda guy and if you have spark and fuel it should run dammit! lol

If the thing is flooded, take all the plugs out, remove the fuel fuse and relay and crank it over a couple times to let it breathe (without flooring it). Thats the first thing I would do tomorrow if I was you. Look at the plugs, check the gap.

I'm guessing it's something stupid (hoping). You say the car looks like it was well maintained by the records...good thing, thats what makes me think it's something simple.

Back to basics, could be everything gone wrong at once but could be 1 overlooked thing also. Dont be overwhelmed about everything, go slow, one step at a time and start all over fron the beginning.

Jeff

[Saleswman525]

Ok,

1. Bought the car in Jan
2. Trans code...owner said it needed a new transmission
3. Bought online from lady in Texas, had it transported to Atlant via trailer
4 Ran the first day, white smoke at first, then clear, sounded pretty good for about 3 minutes, then died think ran out of gas in driveway.
4.. Sat for 3-4 months I think
5 CKd for spark by pulling putting different plug on coil, to see if it would spark...and it did
7 Manually ckd the crank position sensor to see if it was loose. It was not.

Yesterday upon cking the new plugs, there was oil around my new plugs, and misty out the tail pipe...

Car has 100K miles, with all the receipts. Looks visually like it was well taken care of. Trans code has always been on, now "check control" came on late yesterday afternoon after we were doing all of the above.

Thanks.
S

[Scott C]

Just a bit of encouragement - not all transprog messages mean the trans is bad!!!!!
The battery can be weak, the connectors corroded, the 50A fusible link may be faulty or corroded (under the seat), the switch below the shifter can be loaded with someone's drink, the check control module could be bad, the transmission control unit could need an eeprom update.
Check the battery first!

If the car sat, there may be water in the gas tank! That could explain the white smoke.

Oh, by the way, I am fighting through a trans prog issue myself - and the transmission works flawlessly. It is just being reported in error!

Scott C

[Tiger]

Forget about transcode... that maybe nothing like many of us told you... get the engine running is first priority. Drive the car after you get the engine running to determine if you got tranny problem.

Old plug... what did it look like on the outside and inside? Is there alot of oil on the outside of the plug? If yes, then you have to change all the valve cover gaskets... especially those around the plugs... oil can short out the coil packs. Make sure these are clean.

Do us a favor... charge up the battery to full if it is still good... don't give us those jumpstart type of attempting starting.

How much fuel is in the tank? If you can fill in fresh gas, that would be great.

Crank sensor is just a magnet... did you check for resistance like alot of us asked?

How does the air filter look like? Clean dirty?

I don't think you need new tranny... especially at only 100,000 miles. Not likely at all... more like engine problem that mimic tranny problem. You may have a bad mass air flow sensor but you still should be able to start the car... do not replace this part unless you are absolutely sure.

Check the battery contacts... make sure it is shiny and clean... battery and cable clamps... brush it with battery cleaner brush or wire brush or sandpaper.

Check your main fuse link like Scott mentioned..

Keep track of what you checked so we have all the info handy...

[Warren N.CA]

Shirley,

what about $hit fuel...basics here, the car was from texas and transported what last year? how long did it sit there with old fuel and how long did it sit here? It could (I know I'll shut up in a minute) be a stupid as old fuel, in there. These cars have a drain plug on the tanks to drain old fuel/water out. Wait till hubby hears that one! Drain/fill/flush the old fuel out of the injector lines then try again.

Smoke out the tailpipe could mean flooded with fuel that wont burn, that again is my guess. Do not try to start it with the peddle down! That ads fuel to the...well...adds fuel to an otherwise flooded engine.

A low battery could produce spark on a plug out of the engine but put some compression on it and maybe it blows the spark out? Old weak battery+old un-ran bimmer=no run bimmer.

I'm also an old chevy kinda guy and if you have spark and fuel it should run dammit! lol

If the thing is flooded, take all the plugs out, remove the fuel fuse and relay and crank it over a couple times to let it breathe (without flooring it). Thats the first thing I would do tomorrow if I was you. Look at the plugs, check the gap.

I'm guessing it's something stupid (hoping). You say the car looks like it was well maintained by the records...good thing, thats what makes me think it's something simple.

Back to basics, could be everything gone wrong at once but could be 1 overlooked thing also. Dont be overwhelmed about everything, go slow, one step at a time and start all over fron the beginning.

Jeff

[John 535is (Sydney)]

Ok, I read you have checked for spark and the crank position & sensor. If it actually ran then stopped, keep with the basics (ie Air, spark, crank/cam alignment and fuel = engine running (even badly but still running). If you have a bit of white smoke out the exhuast but the engine won't fire, don't panic, thats just unburnt fuel. You said it ran out of fuel when you first got the car. Did you follow that up by changing the fuel filter and checking you have fuel pressure at the motor. If there was junk in the tank, and you used the last of the fuel, you might have dragged the crap into the filter. Its an easy and cheap part, so replace it. When I got mine, it stopped on the side of the highway and all it was the filter. I changed it, and 6 months later changed a second time (it was blocked again). No problems since.

John 535is

[Bill R.]

that puts it into the clear flood mode which shuts off the fuel injectors while cranking











Shirley,

what about $hit fuel...basics here, the car was from texas and transported what last year? how long did it sit there with old fuel and how long did it sit here? It could (I know I'll shut up in a minute) be a stupid as old fuel, in there. These cars have a drain plug on the tanks to drain old fuel/water out. Wait till hubby hears that one! Drain/fill/flush the old fuel out of the injector lines then try again.

Smoke out the tailpipe could mean flooded with fuel that wont burn, that again is my guess. Do not try to start it with the peddle down! That ads fuel to the...well...adds fuel to an otherwise flooded engine.

A low battery could produce spark on a plug out of the engine but put some compression on it and maybe it blows the spark out? Old weak battery+old un-ran bimmer=no run bimmer.

I'm also an old chevy kinda guy and if you have spark and fuel it should run dammit! lol

If the thing is flooded, take all the plugs out, remove the fuel fuse and relay and crank it over a couple times to let it breathe (without flooring it). Thats the first thing I would do tomorrow if I was you. Look at the plugs, check the gap.

I'm guessing it's something stupid (hoping). You say the car looks like it was well maintained by the records...good thing, thats what makes me think it's something simple.

Back to basics, could be everything gone wrong at once but could be 1 overlooked thing also. Dont be overwhelmed about everything, go slow, one step at a time and start all over fron the beginning.

Jeff

[Tiger]

Bill... what do you think might be the problem in this case?

[Brandon J]

OK,

You really need to get the info for the fault/trouble codes before wrenching or digging into the car for the problem. What you can do as of right now is start on maintenance work. I would suggest the basic spark plugs, oil/air/fuel filters. Do an oil change and see how the oil looks. What if the previous owner didn't change the oil on regular intervals?

The car has many sensors and circuits that can trip a fault code. This can help narrow your search without doing any physical labor. This isn't like an old Chevy where you have to do 'hit or miss' on things that could be wrong or do multiple tests. Modern cars tell us what is (or can be) wrong, and the e34 is no exception. We just need to know how to interpret. An O2 sensor code doesn't necessarily mean the O2 sensor is bad, but the A/F ratio could be off. A crank sensor code doesn't necessarily mean the sensor needs to be replaced...it could be a loose connection or gunk on the sensor.

That being said, get the fault codes stored to narrow your search without spending any money.

[Javier]

Bill, do you mean that if I go to my 535i right now (working fine) floor the pedal and keep it down wile cranking to start it will not? Actually, my car manual reads not to push the pedal wile starting the engine, but never though this was the reason!!

[632 Regal]

Like I said Im a chevy kind of guy too so I dont know about cutting the fuel off by smashing the peddle in fuel injected deals...good to know. Shirley is having way too many probs at one time to isolate the cause, thats why I'm tending to stick with the basics here. Eliminate the basics and the rest should fall in place. I'm still stickin to stale gas, kinda like the snowblower you need mid winter that wont start and the generator in mid summer that wont start. Back to basics here and no Bentley is gonna tell you to look at that, it assumes but dont know.

Just stickin my ugly head in here, Its a Bimmer, it's supposed to run!

Jeff

[Bill R.]

rpm's have to be below 400, I think on your car that there is probably enough fuel puddled out of the injectors sitting in the manifold that it would defeat this by allowing it to start briefly and the rpm would climb above 400 at which time the injectors would be energized... However if you disabled the coil and held the pedal to the floor cranked it for 30 seconds or so, long enough to pump any fuel in the manifold out and then reconnected the coil and tryed to start with the pedal all the way down then I think it would not start... Some cars reduce the injector on time to something like 20% when the pedal is held down but i think that motronics shuts it off completely...





Bill, do you mean that if I go to my 535i right now (working fine) floor the pedal and keep it down wile cranking to start it will not? Actually, my car manual reads not to push the pedal wile starting the engine, but never though this was the reason!!

[Javier]

Seems the designers tried to emulate the old way to solve flooding on the carb engines, "keep the pedal down without pumping to help air go trough without sucking any more fuel and vent out the residual fuel.

It's nice to know

[632 Regal]

I should smoke crack.

[Bill R.]

variables here without seeing the car.. the only reason I asked about the starting fluid is because if you spray it into the air intake and it hits the hot wire mass airflow sensor that the m50 uses it can damage it ... I suspect that she's going to have to take it to a mechanic. Also like you I agree that the trans code is the last thing I would worry about, they frequently pop up under a low battery or low voltage condition so I would try to straighten everything else out first...






Bill... what do you think might be the problem in this case?

[Bill R.]

I should smoke crack.

[Saleswman525]

Tiger,

Ok...tomorrow is work on 525 day...we will do all of what you ask...... Also, I print out every email and take it to the car to do the procedures.....

-the old plugs were black....and cruddy on the ends....I bought 6 new plugs.....you know what......I did not see oil on the old plugs.....only on the new plugs around it....and only on the 1 on the end(right).

The crank sensor.....he ckd for looseness....I may have told him the wrong thing to do.......not sure if I know what resistance is to ck....let me know and we will do it too.

Thanks for your help

Shirley

[Saleswman525]

John,

Will do that tomorrow too....will let you know

SHirley

[632 Regal]

dude ramsteins wakin up the house brb...K uhh I was in a car once, I guess thats what they were doin, smelled like wires burning till I saw them punching each other for a smoke bowel. I left said i had to take a pissssssss and ran home 23 miles. best night of my life, cops wanted to arrest me but I wouldnt admit to usin so they had to let me go. If I just had that beer belly compared to todays model...hmmm. Best night of my life, saw the users... never gonna be there.

[Saleswman525]

Jeff,

The car ran out of gas in the drive way....so I believe that I dont have to worry about old gas anymore right? We added new gas about 5$.....due to the fact that that is how big our can is........

But, I will tell you, that the cars turns over but never starts.....he just keeps the ingnition turning without pumping the gas....We are going to get a tool to ck compression today....remore the filter and ck it anything else you can think of.....

S

[Javier]

Shirley.

What do you mean by this?

...he just keeps the ignition turning without pumping the gas....

Have you checked the fuel pump circulating gas trough the injectors rail?

If you bypass the fuel pump relay, you should immediately hear the hissing noise of the fuel pumped trough the rail and this will be good to know. It will also help pressurizing up the system with gas, as the pump is energized only momentarily if the engine does not start. Remember you are coming from an out of fuel situation!

Javier

[mikey535im]

Jeff,

The car ran out of gas in the drive way....so I believe that I dont have to worry about old gas anymore right? We added new gas about 5$.....due to the fact that that is how big our can is........

But, I will tell you, that the cars turns over but never starts.....he just keeps the ingnition turning without pumping the gas....We are going to get a tool to ck compression today....remore the filter and ck it anything else you can think of.....

S
Shirley,
This is straight from the Bentley's manual(you really need to get your hands on one)

"The crankshaft position/rpm sensor is mounted to the front of the engine and reads a toothed wheel on the front of the crankshaft.Engine speed is determined by the rate at which the wheels teeth pass the sensor.Crankshaft position is determined by the missing teeth gap on the pulse wheel.If the DME control module does not receive a crank position signal during cranking the engine will not start.
1.Disconnect the sensor harness connector.
2.Using an ohmmeter,check the resistance between the terminals in the sensor end of the connector.
(this connector is illustrated as a 3 wire connector with a single tab on one side and double tabs on the other)

CPS specifications:

Coil resistance (approx.)
M20/M30 engines............................540 +/- 10% ohms
M50/M60 engines...........................1280 +/- 10% ohms

Air gap(sensor distance from toothed wheel)..............1.0 +/- .03mm
(0.04 +/- 0.01 in)

Also check your Distributor cap/rotor condition,you might indeed have spark but if not timed properly then does no good!
HTH,
Mike

[Javier]

Its a said over here meaning every thing has an explanation. The engine was running fine, run out of gas and now does not start. I would focus on fuel system and won't pass onto other things until sure its working fine. May be the pump was damaged, may be it has not been able to fill up the lines yet, may be your pump inlet is clogged with bottom tank dirt. You should get sure the gas is flowing. IDENTIFY and unplug the hoses in the sender unit below the black metal cover below the carpets in the trunk. You start the pump momentarily and look at the sender tubes, if none pumps fuel you should go in the tank and check what is going on with the pump. If one pumps fuel out, plug again its hose (Don’t mixed them, that’s the reason you should have identified properly before unplugging). Start the pump again, and see the fuel coming back through the unplugged hose. If not, filter is clogged, or something is wrong with the fuel lines or fuel pressure regulator. Be sure you are not pumping fuel out of the system under the car.

Note: Best way to start the pump for doing this is to bypass the pump relay, just let us know if you need help doing this.

[black_bird_blue]

I agree with everyone saying this is something basic. I've had problems on single cylinder engines when they've been left for a while and the volatile fractions of the fuel evaporate, but usually draining the float bowl and letting it refill with fresh fuel does the trick - however, that doesn't apply here and in any case, I've never experienced it on a multi.

It can't possibly be a cracked head, that will disable one or two cylinders but not all of them - it would run, but badly, if the head was cracked, so put that one out of your mind.

For what it's worth, I've had this experience a couple of times with electronic ignition cars - they run fine one day and then they just don't. On older cars with points they run a bit rough, or begin to start badly and you know it's time to do something, but electronic ignition goes just fine one day and not at all the next. Check the gaps on your spark plugs is the first thing - even if they were new plugs. And also the rotor arm (presuming there is one in this car - I'm not certain) and cap - I've had a car do exactly this and run like a dream once the rotor arm and cap were replaced. At the very least, cleaning the contacts inside them cannot do any harm. Producing a spark in air proves nothing - the conditions in the combustion chamber are significantly more challenging. If you don't have a spark in air it proves there's no spark in the cylinder, but if you do have a spark in air it doesn't really prove anything.

The final thing is that if something is a bit marginal, cranking to make a cold start is the hardest time for the electrics. You could help it out by having another car delivering alternator voltage via jump leads while you crank it. Although it feels brutal, try to keep cranking it for about 30 seconds at a time (make sure you give it a rest between attempts).

The other possibility, the failure of a sensor, *should* be picked up by the on-board computer (it makes the same resistance checks as you do) - although marginal voltage can confuse it a bit. It's definitely worth checking the crank position sensor against specifications as was recommended. If the on-board computer gives you no messages, it thinks there is nothing wrong.

No idea if that helps...

Damian

[black_bird_blue]

Just one completely stupid point - is your drive flat?

I once had the experience where the car wouldn't start because of the rotor arm. I tried repeatedly to get it to go but it definitely wouldn't. I swapped the arm and it still wouldn't start. My wife said "It couldn't be because the drive is on a slope and there's not much fuel, could it?" Obviously I derided her simplistic approach, told her she was just a woman and should go back to the kitchen sink, etc etc. After an hour's fruitless investigation my wife asked again if I could be certain the slope wasn't interfering. To prove I knew best, I let off the handbrake and rolled the car onto the flat. ..

Wherupon it started straight away.

I like to think to think of it as character-building rather than utterly humiliating, it's a more positive way to view it.

Damian

[Warren N.CA]

Don't think about it. Just do it. You didn't mention you had run out of gas.


Jeff,

The car ran out of gas in the drive way....so I believe that I dont have to worry about old gas anymore right? We added new gas about 5$.....due to the fact that that is how big our can is........

But, I will tell you, that the cars turns over but never starts.....he just keeps the ingnition turning without pumping the gas....We are going to get a tool to ck compression today....remore the filter and ck it anything else you can think of.....

S

[Saleswman525]

Damian........You are so funny....that very comment came from me today too......but he said there is no way, then people from San Fransisco could not have BMW's.

Go figure...

Shirley

[Saleswman525]

Warren...

The gas thing....hubby says we have almost 1/2 tank.....the car must not have run dry because when we added 5 gallons it brought it up to almost half a tank.

So the engine just died....and the story is the same

Shirley

[Javier]

nt

[Javier]

If you want us to help, you should submit clear and positive info, otherwise, you keep misleading us.

[ryan roopnarine]

it says that it has 1/2 tank, and your absolutely suure it DIDN"t run dry, then disregard the advice about adding the gas...if not so sure..5 gallons (you said $5 before?) is only a quarter usable capacity...fillable capacity is about 18 gallons with 1.8 gal reserve... tank total capacity is over 20 gallons. if you only put 5$ into it, go put another.


Warren...

The gas thing....hubby says we have almost 1/2 tank.....the car must not have run dry because when we added 5 gallons it brought it up to almost half a tank.

So the engine just died....and the story is the same

Shirley

[Saleswman525]

Javier,

I cannot read your post....only the title.....so I am guessing what you are saying. I missunderstood when hubby talked about the gas amount.....apparently....at least he said I did. All along I was told that it ran out of gas and he went to gas station with a gas can which is 5 gallons....and brought it back and put it right in the tank..So the level is between 1/4 and 1/2 tank now. I think he does not want me to go to the easy remedy, as he thinks it is not a fuel issue......he is leaning towards something bigger......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why?????

I am trying to get info from people that are very knowledgeable about BMW's but he thinks that my analagies are off base and that my questions are stupid.....you know this is beginning to piss me off too....not the car either.....

[Saleswman525]

Brandon

Tried again yesterday....and ck engine does come on but does NOT begin flashing....so does that mean there are no codes stored???

Shirley

[Saleswman525]

Why am I only able to read the title of the posts????

Shirley

[black_bird_blue]

He said there is no way, then people from San Fransisco could not have BMW's.

As I recall that was exactly the same sort of derision that I heaped on my wife. I now believe people in SF can't run their cars as low on gas as people somewhere flat. Gravity gets everywhere.

Not long after that some friends of ours got stuck in a valley because they didn't have much fuel and the climb-out was too steep. They could drive around the floor of the valley happily but not out of it until a good samaritan donated some fuel. That was a fuel injected BMW.

Anyway, if you really have half a tank of gas now then it probably wasn't out of gas when it first stopped on your driveway. In any case it would have stopped as soon as it ran out gas and so adding more or less any more would let it start again.

When it stopped before, can you remember if it stopped abruptly or stumbled to a halt? The former is typical of an electrical problem, the latter of a fuelling problem.

Have you tried the brutal cranking on jump leads thing yet? If you crank it for a while it starts to put some heat into the combustion chambers and gives everything an easier time. As was previously pointed out though, don't put your foot on the throttle pedal - this isn't a carburettor car so wiggling and tickling the pedal like some ol' Hillman Imp* isn't likely to help, it will only reduce the air speed in the manifold and make the mixture preparation poor.

One other question (for the board as a whole really). I'm not completely familiar with my V8 E34 (mainly because it just works) so I don't know if it runs multiple coils or what. My 4 cylinder bike engine runs twin wasted-spark ignition systems so that a coil failure won't stop the bike (although it will run dog rough). What's the layout of the E34 ignition system? For troubleshooting you need to be looking for "pinchpoints" where a single component failure disables ignition or fuelling to the entire motor - e.g. fuel pump, distributor rotor arm, crank position sensor, that sort of thing.


Damian

*Hillman Imp - a very english car from some back.

[Robbo]

Regarding holding down gas pedal on start up - this can cause a "backfire" through the air flow meter which can cause the air flap to stick in the wrong position for starting.

The above definitely applied to my older E28 5 series but I'm not sure if it applies to the E34 model.

If it does then it might be a good idea to take the air box off and check the air flow meter out, the flap should move easily, with a spring loaded closure.

[MarkD]

Regarding holding down gas pedal on start up - this can cause a "backfire" through the air flow meter which can cause the air flap to stick in the wrong position for starting.

The above definitely applied to my older E28 5 series but I'm not sure if it applies to the E34 model.

If it does then it might be a good idea to take the air box off and check the air flow meter out, the flap should move easily, with a spring loaded closure.

No flap in an M50 motor, it has a MAF.
I'm thinking this is a fuel issue. Since we were told there is spark, it should at least start and run if there is fuel. Even is the spark timing is off, I would expect it to run, even if poorly.

And I've never had a problem with stale gas, though maybe it can happen. I have a car with I store for 6 months a year with the same fuel in the tank, (once I didn't start it for a year) and when I cranked it, it started right up.

Mark

[MarkD]

One other question (for the board as a whole really). I'm not completely familiar with my V8 E34 (mainly because it just works) so I don't know if it runs multiple coils or what. My 4 cylinder bike engine runs twin wasted-spark ignition systems so that a coil failure won't stop the bike (although it will run dog rough). What's the layout of the E34 ignition system? For troubleshooting you need to be looking for "pinchpoints" where a single component failure disables ignition or fuelling to the entire motor - e.g. fuel pump, distributor rotor arm, crank position sensor, that sort of thing.

Damian

Hi Damian,
your car has an M60 motor. Shirley's would be an M50. Both of these have a single coil per cylinder and no distributor. The DME controls each coil separately.

Mark

[Saleswman525]

Win,

Bought with a "trans code" on.....see Don's posting ....today...

Shirley

[Robbo]

Mmmm, me thinks she needs to bite the bullet and get it checked over by friendly wrench - too many ifs buts and maybes to diagnose this by forum.

[Karl]

Hey Gang,

[snip]

1, How do I fix the flooding?
2. Symptoms of a cracked head?
3. Transprogram mode code
4 check control code came on today

Help.....he wants to sell her....and I am having a cow.....

Thanks,
Shirley

Not trying to make light of your situation, but please don't assume the worst to start with.
1. Flooding fixes itself if you let the car rest a few minutes. If you keep cranking it will just burn out the starter (that's true of Chevy's too)
2. With cracked head the car will run. When it runs you get either clouds of steam out the tail pipe or bubbles coming up through the radiator.
3. Transprogram mode code can mean a transmission job--it did for me. It can also mean some electrical gremlin, as the computer is very sensitive to voltage.
4. Ditto for check control code. It can lead you to codes you find thru the stomp test, and some engine malfunction, or be as simple as low voltage from the battery.

There may be some common point that is giving you several failure indications, no start, rough running, spurious codes, or a check code light then no response to code test just might all be due to a low battery--especially after the car has been sitting for a long time. The computer is very sensitive to voltage drop as the battery goes down and can get confused. And trying to jump start the car will not fix that. So check or replace the battery--you're likely to get a better deal from Interstate than your dealer. Interstate does have battery that's properly vented to ride under the seat. (no affiliation)

When you do get to the transmission issue, try an independent transmission shop that knows their stuff. If your car is like mine, it's a GM automatic trans.

Wish you well with it.

[Unregistered]

Make sure that you turn the ignition key to the second position, where the key is in position when the car is running. Do not turn the car on. Then, push the pedal all the way 5 time quickly, but not too quickly. At this time the check engine light should begin flashing.Don't forget that your car is fuel injected. It doesn't flood like 'ol american carburetors. You may smell the fuel b/c fuel is injected upon start-up, but it is not burned and gets pushed out the exhaust unburned.
link its orange collor and you can find in engine departments and nomber 1 its close to bateri in rare