Budget Audio Upgrade Complete !!!

[Derek A.]

What a pain in the ass. But wow what a difference. The basic systems is as follows:

1. Base e34 crossover with amp gutted
2. ADS 100 Watt amp feeding front six factory speakers
2. ADS 60 Watt amp feeding read four factory speakers
3. PPI 240 Watt (bridged) amp feeding 10" dual VC Kicker Comp VR in a sealed box.
4. MTX electronic crossover
5. Blaupunkt head unit - with custom color display
6. XM Radio Roady XT

The factory speakers do a great job when given enough power and no really low end signals 70/80 hz.

Many thanks to Scott Hersted for the doner e34 amp & Anthony Doyle for the deatails on the factory amp modification



http://www.opus45.com/pics/e34_amps.JPG


http://www.opus45.com/pics/blau_xm.JPG

[Derek A.]

Here is a pic of amplifier portion of the factory BMW e34 amp.

http://www.opus45.com/pics/e34_famp.jpg

[Kalevera]

Derek -- very nice! A/D/S, though? Not really a small budget, was it :)

best, whit

[Jon K]

The smaller a/d/s amps aren't that expensive.

[Derek A.]

The ADS amps were a donation - $29 for the crossover on ebay. $50 at sound domain for interconnects. $30 at Lowes for wire, fastnerss etc and $20 at Radio shack for some misc BS. The PPI amp and sub were already in the car.

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

[QUOTE=Derek A.]What a pain in the ass. But wow what a difference. QUOTE]

Glad to see you "got 'er done" - looks good!

[Kalevera]

Ah, I always thought the classic A/D/S/ stuff was big money. Never really messed with their stuff.

best, whit

[GoldenOne]

just curious, is it possible to use the factory 6-disc changer with an aftermarket headunit??? it would be cool if I could hook it up and use it...

[Derek A.]

You might have to do some custom wiring - or try and find an adapter someplace. I never bothered with a changer. Invest in an MP3 player - its smaller, easier to hook up and will hold a lot more music than 6 discs worth!

[genphreak]

You might have to do some custom wiring - or try and find an adapter someplace. I never bothered with a changer. Invest in an MP3 player - its smaller, easier to hook up and will hold a lot more music than 6 discs worth!What a sweet way to cut through the crap Derek. I am close myself to doing this myself. Are you running line level to the crossover and have some fader control on that? Are you running midrange drivers at the rear or simply leave mids up to the front speakers entirely? What are your thoughts on running a separate crossover for the rear and front speakers?

What is with the amp section you posted the pic of from the stock amp? Did you look into running it off low-level inputs?

I'm thinking of retaining the stock amp as is, or using it to run just the mids and tweeters, thus driving the stock woofers with an aftermarket amp (whilst adding a sub amp/woofer combo on top of course). But I will only do this if I can work out a way to run the whole thing off line-level inputs (and utilise an in-dash line-level equalizer with a fader). :) Nick

ps; if this seems weird, see my previous post here (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?p=145144#post145144) for more info

[Derek A.]

The only fader control on the system is the individual amps level control.

All the factory speakers are operational - and running through the OEM BMW crossover. I merely removed the amplifier portion and fed a much stronger signal through the crossover to the factory oem speakers.

That OEM piece is all that amplifies your stock system 15 watts - maybe. You should hear the oem speakers with 150+ watts running through them.

If I had to do all over again - I would probably go the route that Anthony originally did with a single amp to run eveything. Getting those three amps and a crossover wired up was a pain. More chances for noise - less room etc. I see no benefit to letting the oem amp do anything. I modded the factory amp in about 15 minutes with a sottering iron.

Below is a shot of the hookups for the factory amp (Provided by "Anthony (M5 in Calgary")

http://www.opus45.com/pics/amp_wiring.jpg

[genphreak]

Oh I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

So the factory amp has a wopping great cross-over working on the speaker side of the power amps. I was thinking it'd be a passive crossover on the low-level side- I'd better mod mine too- awesome info. It all makes sense now (as it is a booster amp).

Now I know what to do :), all I need is an equalizer with sub-output and fader control. Love your work dude, thanks Derek!

[genphreak]

How did you work out which pins (on the cross-over) to connect the new amp outputs to? That pic of Anthony's looks like each wire is connected to 2 adjacent pins (tho it is hard to tell, I guess I am wondering which amp connection runs what tweet, mid or woofer really- but perhaps when I pull the thing I can work it out too... ;) Nick

[Derek A.]

Anthony M5 Calgary -did the leg work on the amp.

Yes there are two pins for each connection.

All you do is feed the amp signals into the factory crossover and it takes care of the rest. All you are doing is feeding the speaker level signals from your amp into the factory piece - and it does the rest.

I got 100W going into the front 6 speakers - and no complaints.

I put an active crossover on to A. feed a line level signal to the sub amp - and b. keep anything below 60hx from hitting the factory stuff. Much cleaner at higher levels.

[Jjcarr]

Here's a possible alternative (I'm sure you've considered, just for evaluation's sake)

Get a 5-channel amp (I got a Fosgate off eBay for $80)
Get some decent quality 5.25 separates, you can get Infinity off eBay for about $75-$100 a pair.
Wire it all up.
It looks like you did a great job with the parts you had, but is gutting the factory amp worthwhile? (it might be, I'm just bringing this up for discussion)

This is more of a "mainstream" approach, but when you tally up all the $$$ it might be worth it to dump the factory speakers. Granted, they aren't bad. In fact I ended up just adding a sub and cutting the 80z signal to the factory speakers and it sounds decent (or more importantly it looks 100% factory and it's done...)

I definitely agree on the MP3 player vs the changer. I have a small folio of burned MP3 CD's, and each one has more albums on it than the factory changer could hold. Plus, if someone breaks in and steals them, or the car, I just burn new ones, and don't loose any original CD's

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

Here's a possible alternative (I'm sure you've considered, just for evaluation's sake)

Get a 5-channel amp (I got a Fosgate off eBay for $80)
Get some decent quality 5.25 separates, you can get Infinity off eBay for about $75-$100 a pair.
Wire it all up.
It looks like you did a great job with the parts you had, but is gutting the factory amp worthwhile? (it might be, I'm just bringing this up for discussion)

This is more of a "mainstream" approach, but when you tally up all the $$$ it might be worth it to dump the factory speakers. Granted, they aren't bad. In fact I ended up just adding a sub and cutting the 80z signal to the factory speakers and it sounds decent (or more importantly it looks 100% factory and it's done...)

I definitely agree on the MP3 player vs the changer. I have a small folio of burned MP3 CD's, and each one has more albums on it than the factory changer could hold. Plus, if someone breaks in and steals them, or the car, I just burn new ones, and don't loose any original CD's

Gutting the factory amp as shown and using the OE speakers is probably the easiest and least expensive way to improve the audio system on the E34 - no messing with re-wiring the speakers either. The OE speakers are high quality and if, after testing, you find they need improvement then by all means replace them. The factory speaker wiring is twisted pair - good for noise rejection.

The Alpine 5 channel amp (pictured below) only cost ~$300 a few years ago. The photo shows an early iteration using speaker level inputs from the OE head unit. This first attempt was noisy as the OE head unit doesn't have enough drive to get adequate output without cranking the amp's sensitivity. It raised the noise floor (alternator whine and head unit's hiss) well into audible range. I'm running 4 RCA inputs now, allowing head unit to fade front to rear. The sub output is linked to the front amp pair and fades out when fader is set toward rear.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/interalian/stereo%20stuff/14finalinstallation.jpg

[Jjcarr]

Gutting the factory amp as shown and using the OE speakers is probably the easiest and least expensive way to improve the audio system on the E34 - no messing with re-wiring the speakers either. The OE speakers are high quality and if, after testing, you find they need improvement then by all means replace them. The factory speaker wiring is twisted pair - good for noise rejection.


In your setup, are you using a gutted factory amp as well? If so, how does the aftermarket amp compare in that setup to stock? I'm definitely a fan of not tearing up the stock system, and gutting a junk yard amp is definitely an idea. The stock speakers are definitely not bad at all. Part of the reason I ended up not using my 5-channel is because I didn't want to cut the factory wires.

[5spd]

GoldenOne, I have an alpine 6 cd changer in my e34, with a new alpine head unit, and it was a direct plug. If you have a matching brand changer and head unit, it should plug right into the back. (but make sure you buy a head unit that supports a cd-changer)

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

In your setup, are you using a gutted factory amp as well? If so, how does the aftermarket amp compare in that setup to stock? I'm definitely a fan of not tearing up the stock system, and gutting a junk yard amp is definitely an idea. The stock speakers are definitely not bad at all. Part of the reason I ended up not using my 5-channel is because I didn't want to cut the factory wires.

"Gutting" the factory amp only requires removal of the module shown in Derek's post (photographed next to a CD). This change is reversible - just remove the wires soldered onto the pins and re-install. I guess "gutting" is an overstatement of the actual process...

No cutting of factory wires is needed - again, fully reversible.

[Jjcarr]

"Gutting" the factory amp only requires removal of the module shown in Derek's post (photographed next to a CD). This change is reversible - just remove the wires soldered onto the pins and re-install. I guess "gutting" is an overstatement of the actual process...

No cutting of factory wires is needed - again, fully reversible.

Are you using this type of setup? Does it sound better than the stock amp?

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

Are you using this type of setup? Does it sound better than the stock amp?

Yes and hell yes. The photo with the Alpine amp is my setup. The difference between my setup and Derek's is I used a 5 channel amp with built-in active crossover. He used 3 separate amps and a separate active crossover.

[Jjcarr]

Yes and hell yes. The photo with the Alpine amp is my setup. The difference between my setup and Derek's is I used a 5 channel amp with built-in active crossover. He used 3 separate amps and a separate active crossover.

Yeah, I've got a 5-channel amp as well, just haven't gotten around to installing it, plus I didn't want to mess with the factory wiring. Sounds like if I get a used e34 amp then I can tear it up to my heart's content and still use the factory plugs for all my wiring. Thanks.

[Derek A.]

My project was a little more involved - due to all the power wiring and the signal path to all the components. If I didn't have all the seperate amps - I would have done a single 5 channel and saved some aggrevation.

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

Yeah, I've got a 5-channel amp as well, just haven't gotten around to installing it, plus I didn't want to mess with the factory wiring. Sounds like if I get a used e34 amp then I can tear it up to my heart's content and still use the factory plugs for all my wiring. Thanks.

No need to get a used amp. All you need to do is take off the module at the top (att'd to heatsink) and wire the 4 80+ Hz speaker leads to the pins left on the large board. Completely reversible and you don't even have to undo a single connector if you do the soldering whilst in the trunk. If you don't want to solder to the pins, 4 4 pin connectors can be used.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/interalian/stereo%20stuff/06insideamp.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/interalian/stereo%20stuff/10outputsfromnewamp.jpg

[Jjcarr]

No need to get a used amp.

Getting a used amp is more about leaving room for error. That way if I screw something up I can always pop the factory amp back in with zero hasstle. Plus, given that I can probably get one for $15 or so, it just something to ease my concience. Thanks for the info.

[acidfire52]

Hate to bring up such an old ticket...

Can anyone tell me which pins to connect to on the Crossover side from my new amp?

Hard to tell in the pictures.

Thanks

[Tiger]

Used ADS amps are reasonably priced.

[acidfire52]

Used ADS amps are reasonably priced.

??? :(

I have an amp... wondering what pins I connect the outputs to after I remove the stock amp from the crossover. ie. see the pics a few post up.

[TC535i]

Just to clarify... "gutting" the factory amp just means "turning it into a crossover", right?

How does the new aftermarket amp get signal? Run "line-level inputs" from the head unit, which aren't really line-level, and that causes distortion (alternator whine, hiss, etc)? Anything I can do to replace the amp, but keep the factory head unit? Or do I have to go aftermarket head if I want better amplification?

[acidfire52]

That is what it seems Derek did. Took the amp off the crossover and fed his new amp into it.

I have an aftermarket deck already, I will just run 3 sets of RCAs to the back, two for the speakers and one for the sub.

They do make line level converters that should, in theory anyway, convert the signal from the stock deck to RCAs. I think.

[gmannino]

What a pain in the ass. But wow what a difference. The basic systems is as follows:

1. Base e34 crossover with amp gutted
2. ADS 100 Watt amp feeding front six factory speakers
2. ADS 60 Watt amp feeding read four factory speakers
3. PPI 240 Watt (bridged) amp feeding 10" dual VC Kicker Comp VR in a sealed box.
4. MTX electronic crossover
5. Blaupunkt head unit - with custom color display
6. XM Radio Roady XT

The factory speakers do a great job when given enough power and no really low end signals 70/80 hz.

Many thanks to Scott Hersted for the doner e34 amp & Anthony Doyle for the deatails on the factory amp modification



http://www.opus45.com/pics/e34_amps.JPG


http://www.opus45.com/pics/blau_xm.JPG



I have a few questions,
Do you experience any engine noise? Alternator whine? popping? scratching" Do your stock speakers crack or pop at loud volumes?

[Derek A.]

I used ground look isolators at the amp line in and off the line in from the XM radio. With the volume way up and no signal - you get a very little bit of noise. Other than that - its very quiet.

I once again cannot emphasize how well this system plays with lots of power behind it.

Derek.-

[ILoveMPower]

just curious, is it possible to use the factory 6-disc changer with an aftermarket headunit??? it would be cool if I could hook it up and use it...

My headunit has auxillery inputs for "CD2" and then I simple select which disc

[acidfire52]

I used ground look isolators at the amp line in and off the line in from the XM radio. With the volume way up and no signal - you get a very little bit of noise. Other than that - its very quiet.

I once again cannot emphasize how well this system plays with lots of power behind it.

Derek.-

Derek,
Can you tell us which pins on the crossover to connect to, or is it obvious once I get in there?

Thanks

[TC535i]

Hmm... I really want to do this, but I'm confused. Can I splice new connectors on to my stock wiring and go straight into the amp? What about a sub signal?

Somebody should do a writeup with diagrams... that would be a huge help, simplify a DIY that could really help a lot of people...

[acidfire52]

Hmm... I really want to do this, but I'm confused. Can I splice new connectors on to my stock wiring and go straight into the amp? What about a sub signal?

Somebody should do a writeup with diagrams... that would be a huge help, simplify a DIY that could really help a lot of people...

This is what you need to go from the stock deck to an aftermarket amp.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2kzG49fhF1f/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=750&I=127OEM2&search=signal+converter

Once we figure out what pins to connect to we will be all set.

[TC535i]

This is what you need to go from the stock deck to an aftermarket amp.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2kzG49fhF1f/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=750&I=127OEM2&search=signal+converter

Once we figure out what pins to connect to we will be all set.

"converting a factory radio's speaker-level outputs to preamp-level signal that can be connected to aftermarket amplifiers; "

We're not using speaker-level signal tho, it's at a pre-amp level signal (unamplified) because it's coming off the head but before the stock amp... right?

[acidfire52]

"converting a factory radio's speaker-level outputs to preamp-level signal that can be connected to aftermarket amplifiers; "

We're not using speaker-level signal tho, it's at a pre-amp level signal (unamplified) because it's coming off the head but before the stock amp... right?

Yes, but from what i remember reading, mabey on bmwe34.net, the output from the stock deck is amplified. The stock amp just adds like another 15watts or so.

EDIT: The stock system consists of a tape deck, CD Changer (optional), amplifier/crossover (a four channel amp, and it is ~20 watts/channel, amplifying ~5 WPC that the head-unit produces

So, you need to convert 5 watts to a line level input somehow.... I am not sure how...

[RussC]

So, you need to convert 5 watts to a line level input somehow.... I am not sure how...

There are low to high impedance converters that do this. Look around. Low impedance(8 ohm speaker level) and high impedance(pre-amp level).

Russc

[Derek A.]

Here are the images I used as reference to wire up my amp - after I gutted it.

http://www.opus45.com/pics/535ampwirestospeakers.jpg

http://www.opus45.com/pics/10outputsfromnewamp.jpg

You have to connect the input wires to two terminals. In the pics - the white stripes are positive.

I will do a write up and send it to Bruno - maybe this weekend to put on the e34 site.

D.-

[acidfire52]

So, it looks like not all the pins are active. Looks like you have the wire wraped around two pins on a few of them.

Or am I way off base here? :p

[Derek A.]

All the outputs need two terminals per wire. And yes - not all of them are used.

[attack eagle]

can't wait to read the write up.

[TC535i]

can't wait to read the write up.
Yup. This is looking like my upgrade, can't wait for the info. Also, if you could include how to wire up a sub in this setup, I'd appreciate it (obviously before the caps/crossovers, etc)

[attack eagle]

For a sub you just grab the aftermarket head unit's sub outs to 2nd (sub) aftermarket amp or sub input on a 5 channel amp. That much I can tell you for sure.

[acidfire52]

Well, am about half way through doing this in my car. I have the RCA cables run to the back, got my amp taken apart. Waiting on the paint to dry that I will mount everything to. Looking good. :D

One thing, Derek if you see this, which connector on the amp is in and which is out, white or black? Or do you have to hook both back up?

Thanks
Ash

[TC535i]

For a sub you just grab the aftermarket head unit's sub outs to 2nd (sub) aftermarket amp or sub input on a 5 channel amp. That much I can tell you for sure.
I'm trying to do it with the stock head unit.. .only changing the amplification.

[acidfire52]

Well, it is done. Got everything wired up. I had been running it with a Pioneer deck, the stock amp/crossover, and an amp powering a 12" sub.
Now, the Pioneer is fed into a 4 channel amp via RCAs. The amp feeds into the crossover with the amp removed which feeds the speakers.
It actually is not much louder, thought it would be as my new amp feeds 50x4 RMS where as my Pioneer deck only feeds like 25x4. Hard to tell about sound quality, will have to listen to it for a while.

The hardest part for me was soldering the wires to the crossover, not very good at soldering. Came out good though. The only thing you really need to know is in the pics that Derek posted. Show you wright where to connect to. Plugin both the black and white connectors on the crossover.

Well, now I need to go clean up.

Thanks

[Derek A.]

I plugged both back in. The input side is not going to do anything - as the amplification is all gone.

From a power perspective. You need to remember that you are still driving 10 speakers, and that is without a sub. When I did my system I used two separate substantial amps to power the factory speakers. I also used a separate electronic crossover to tone down some of the lower end frequencies ? It doesn't take much to distort the factory drivers. Using the crossover you get a lot more aggregate volume. I bought on off ebay for like $20.

D.-

[acidfire52]

I have come to the conclusion it does sound quite a bit better. Although I do have some engine noise I need to eliminate with some filters.

My deck has a high pass filter I set at 80hz to keep anything lower out of the speakers, everything lower goes to my sub.

Thanks for your help Derek.

Ash

[Derek A.]

I used one of these on the inputs to the crossover - made a big difference in nuking the engine noise

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAC-SNI-1-SNI1-Ground-Loop-Isolator-RCA-Noise-Filter_W0QQitemZ170068558843QQihZ007QQcategoryZ505 52QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

D.-

[hk20000]

Walmart sell that "DUAL" brand amp + 2x 12" sub for $50 when there was a clearance.

those worked great and thumped loud if you have an aftermarket deck (which I see you do) with RCA outputs.

but I have it installed in my Toyota Cressida instead.... the E34 is too heavy even without the system.

[acidfire52]

I used one of these on the inputs to the crossover - made a big difference in nuking the engine noise

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAC-SNI-1-SNI1-Ground-Loop-Isolator-RCA-Noise-Filter_W0QQitemZ170068558843QQihZ007QQcategoryZ505 52QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

D.-

I just ordered two of them just a couple of minutes ago. Ned two as my deck is my crossover. Should clean everything up nicely.