Any proof on E34's safety?

[Leo_Straight6]

Hey guys,

I currently drive a 1988 Honda Prelude Si and I want to upgrade to a 1989 BMW E34 535iS (with ABS, no ASC, no airbag)

I'm all set to go but my parents are prohibiting me from buying this car as they believe that it's unsafe! I know personally that E34s are built like tanks and that they are pretty indestructable cars but my parents want conclusive proof of the E34's safety.

I've been searching all over the internet for crash tests of the E34 but I can't find any! And any safety information on it seems to be pretty unreliable (for example one place reckons an E30 gets a 4 star rating and the E34 gets a 3 star rating)

Does anyone have any proof of the E34's safety?

Thanks in advance,

PS: These forums look fantastic!

[632 Regal]

get a newer model with an airbag.

[ThoreauHD]

Here's one I know of offhand.

http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/other/E34_crash.htm

[angrypancake]

proof of safety? the e34 had the shortest braking distance in it's class. and yeah it's built like a tank i hit a ****ing tree and walked away from it.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1903/natscar0470od.jpg

before that car i had an 89 accord, if i'd hit the same tree at the same speed, there's probly no way i'd be alive right now. my car did have an airbag though (knocked me out on impact, gave me a concussion, lol)

[liquidtiger720]

no abs? really?

[Gayle]

you might try here. They say that they have research back to 1969 and can provide reports

http://www.iihs.org/research/default.html


if you feel like watching some crash tests of newer cars, it will convince you that nothing is safe

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=17576&highlight=crash+test

[mattyb]

right. so they let u drive an 88 honda prelude SI at the momement eh and they bothered about the e34. wtf!

[SRR2]

Forget what everyone else is saying, here's what's actually going on from a parent perspective:

1) We don't want you wasting more money on another car. The Honda is paid for and cheap to operate. A BMW is expensive and all your college money will be going to run it.

2) BMWs are big and powerful. You aren't responsible enough yet for such a car. When you're old enough and self-supporting then you can have any car you want and can afford. Right now, an old, cheap, low-powered Honda is right for you.

3) Our insurance bills are high enough already without a BMW on it.

4) Hmmm...We're not so sure about the message sent to the neighbors by our son driving a BMW.

5) Hmmm...Drug dealers drive BMWs

6) We need an excuse to sell the above. AHA! SAFETY!!

[genphreak]

ROFL, too true srr2... everyone knows an e34 is safer than a tinfoil car, parents included! For years they've BMWs have been designed by professionals with International reputations for their work. Then a team of the world's best engineers spend the next year trying to blitz the safety tests (and succeed as they lead the market with similar people like Volvo.. ), and then they worry about planning production and doing the tests and marketing the thing.

By comparison the SE Asian manufacturers plan production before the designers finish the concept.

Also, the marketrs do a good job at selling the safety features and benefits- it is not done behind the scenes. Due to the benefit of their years our parents are more lilely to know this than us... :) Nick

[BillionPa]

the number of accidents i have avoided thanks to superior braking and handling is a testament to the safety of the car.... as long as you know how to drive it when someone is about to hit you.
Safety should be first and foremost avoiding the accident in the first place (if possible) and that comes with experience and a car that can perform in that kind of situation.
If i was driving my friends 89 honda, i would probably be dead now. Im not saying they are unsafe, but they would take some modifying to handle at high speeds like a BMW can and will.

[Leo_Straight6]

Thanks for the replies guys! Keep them coming!

But does anyone have an actual lab crash test of an E34?

[Russell]

As a parent, I would not buy that car. I would buy a newer e34 with air bag (or bags), abs and traction control.

For example, We bought our daughter a 2001 4-runner because the newer models had traction control and stability control.

Just my opinion.



Thanks for the replies guys! Keep them coming!

But does anyone have an actual lab crash test of an E34?

[BillionPa]

if you get a car with traction control, make sure you have a way to turn it OFF when you need to. mine has ASC+T and you just cant move in some situations unless you hit the off button

[winfred]

i've parted dozens of wrecked e34s and they hold up pretty good in a varity of hits, front, rear, side, rollover and sandwedged, we actually fixed a rolled 95 525 for the bosses wife many years ago that's how well they hold up

[liquidtiger720]

Forget what everyone else is saying, here's what's actually going on from a parent perspective:

1) We don't want you wasting more money on another car. The Honda is paid for and cheap to operate. A BMW is expensive and all your college money will be going to run it.





SOOO SOOO SOOO SO OOOO True. Ask me how I know. I adopted the 525i when I was 15.5 years old because it was paid for already. You don't want to keep up with the maintnence. I think I would be happy with a civic right now. :D



and im still wondering....why did my car not come with asc?!?!?!

[billb]

Thanks for the replies guys! Keep them coming!

But does anyone have an actual lab crash test of an E34?

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showpost.php?p=142490&postcount=1

[angrypancake]

https://home.insightbb.com/~england31/DSCN1472.JPG


just show your parents that car, tell them it's after it hit a deer and was fixed. they will be so awestruck it will be e34 for life

btw it has, what, 104,000 miles on it?

[Lennyz525i]

Forget what everyone else is saying, here's what's actually going on from a parent perspective:

1) We don't want you wasting more money on another car. The Honda is paid for and cheap to operate. A BMW is expensive and all your college money will be going to run it.

Yeah an older bmw can get expensive, especially if it hasn't been maintained well.

2) BMWs are big and powerful. You aren't responsible enough yet for such a car. When you're old enough and self-supporting then you can have any car you want and can afford. Right now, an old, cheap, low-powered Honda is right for you.

A low powered is a complete punishment for anyone who cares about driving.

3) Our insurance bills are high enough already without a BMW on it.

BS, my E34 is super cheap to insure, partly due to its age and also excellent safety record...

4) Hmmm...We're not so sure about the message sent to the neighbors by our son driving a BMW.

Great, screw the neighbors.

5) Hmmm...Drug dealers drive BMWs

No they drive low powered hondas so they won't get noticed.

6) We need an excuse to sell the above. AHA! SAFETY!!

I'll go look for those safety ratings now. :D

[Alexlind123]

For one thing, ALL bmw 5-series have ABS and have had ABS for at least the past 20 years. Secondly, you're looking at a 1989; a 1990 wont be much more expensive and it will probably have an airbag. Thirdly, the e34 has a 60-0 stopping distance of 130ft (correct me if im wrong people). Thats better than most new cars today, so some searching.

Now, i remember awhile back someone posted some pics of hitting a tan chevy car in the side which was severly damaged and the e34 seemed barely scratched in comparison. I will start searching for that now, if anyone knows what im talking about, please post a link.

[Alexlind123]

I found the pictures. I hope the owner doesnt mind me posting them :s

http://servo.postverket.us/alex/P8200304.jpg
http://servo.postverket.us/alex/P8200300.jpg
http://servo.postverket.us/alex/P8200301.jpg

[Zeuk in Oz]

Notwithstanding SRR2 and BillionPa's excellent contributions, as a parent who bought my kids an E34 to learn to drive on and use as their first car perhaps I should put forward my 2c.

Firstly let me explain that I am absolutely anal about safety when it comes to cars and I have always bought cars with this uppermost in my mind.

My wife, who can't drive for peanuts (:D ), drives a 3 yo Mercedes ML 270 CDI 4WD (SUV) complete with every active and passive safety feature known to man - ESP (ASC), traction control, brake assist, window bags, side airbags, front airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners, safety cage etc etc. I also only buy the safest tyres I can get and I think you get the picture. Prior to that she drove a Volvo 850 AWD with all the safety gear available when it was new.

When I was looking for a car for my oldest of 4 sons to learn to drive on I spent at least 6 months researching the subject.

With the help of the Swedish insurance company Folksam (I was born in Sweden, by the way, and speak the language fluently) I came to the following conclusions with respect to my kids' first car.

As an aside, Folksam have real-life safety data on most older cars and I will try to find these and post them for you if I can.

1. It had to have a critical mass - all safety studies I have read indicate that your chances of surviving a crash increase dramatically if the vehicle weighs at least 1300-1400 kg. My 525i weighs 1504 kg.

2. Front airbags are nice to have but they probably save you from facial injuries rather than saving your life. If a frontal collision occurs where the front airbag has saved your life, then your brain has collided with the front of your skull with such a force that your brain has already turned to mush. By all means try to get a newer car with an airbag as it is preferrable to no airbag, but its value isn't as great as the hype, in my opinion.

3. Where the seatbelt sits on your body is vital. A client of mine is an engineer who researches crashes and he will only drive a Volvo for this reason. I am fairly impressed, however, with how the E 34 seatbelt self adjusts with fore and aft movement of the seat.

4. Window air bags are in my opinion the most important of all, as they prevent the (softest part) side of your head from hitting the B pillar. If you want window bags you basically have to buy a new or near new car - nice if you can afford it.

5. A car's suspension and how it handles, including ABS, are really important. In my opinion the superior handling and braking of the E 34 go a long way to making me choose it for my kids to drive. Make sure that the suspension ans steering components and shock absorbers are replaced as required. In short, they are less likely to lose control of an E34 with a LSD than most other cars. A Volvo 850 / S70 or V70 would be my second choice of car for safety, but their handling is no-where near as good as an E34.

5. Power is often a significant factor in inexperienced driver crashes. You won't thank me for saying this Leo, but I feel that the 3.5 litre motor is too powerful for young drivers. I would suggest the M20 2.5 litre motor is the one to buy - ie '88-'90 525i. Alternately the 2.0 litre M50 motor would be worth a look if it is available in your area - I see that you are in Oz so it should be an option and it would come with an airbag. Don't scoff at these engines, they might not be chest thumpers but they are certainly adequately powerful. These cars are often also less desireable generally so might be cheaper.

6. Learn to drive properly. You don't give us much information about your age or driving experience, but just because you might have a licence, doesn't mean you can drive. BMW offer an excellent young drivers' course designed for P platers and there are numerous other such courses available - do at least one so you can learn how little you actually might know !

7. Buy tyres you can't afford. I run my E 34 on Michelin Pilot HX MXM tyres that cost me over $400 each, but they are absolutely brilliant and are about to be replaced with the same.

8. Compared to the Prelude, any European car of similar vintage and adequate size will be preferable - BMW, Saab, Volvo, Mercedes.

In summary, I would suggest you buy a 520i with airbag or else an M20 525i manual with LSD.

PM me if you want any further information.

Bo

Sorry this was so long.

Edit : an example of 520i for sale today :
http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/bmw/5/sydney/detail.aspx?id=2648399&pg=1&pp=11&d=0&nv=1

[romus]

[QUOTE=Leo_Straight6]Hey guys,

I currently drive a 1988 Honda Prelude Si and I want to upgrade to a 1989 BMW E34 535iS (with ABS, no ASC, no airbag)

-----------

I got hit by a Honda a few months back and I got two small cracks in my bumper. Wanna ask the girl how much she spent on repairing her Honda? Her bumper completely gone, her hood out of alignment and headlights smashed. And that was a low speed hit - lucky for her.

So much for the safety of the car you're currently driving compared to the one you want to get.

Besides I have a huge book on 535i intended only for press release and there are many facts your parents should see. Including safest 4 door sedan of the 90's as well as best breaking one.

Good luck

[Zeuk in Oz]

For one thing, ALL bmw 5-series have ABS and have had ABS for at least the past 20 years. Secondly, you're looking at a 1989; a 1990 wont be much more expensive and it will probably have an airbag.
AFAIK, all 535 M30 BMWs in Oz came without airbags.

[Traian]

Personally, safety ratings by some gov't insurance company puppets would never sway me to buy one car over another. That said, safety-wise I feel like I'm driving a tank in the E34. In fact, I would say that that may be the only downside: the car feels so solid and secure that you might be less observant to risks on the road than you would be in a smaller, lighter car, such as a Prelude. Imo you never realize how much of your attention you really should devote to the road until you ride a motorcycle. That may sound like bs, but i definitely think it's true.

[Zeuk in Oz]

Info from Folksam's crash results for real crashes - not the same as crash testing - this measures what happens in the real world :

5 series BMW 1988-1996 was 15% safer than average cars of same size.

Unfortunately I can't post a link of this specific data but they have an English section that you can go to yourself

Go to :

http://www.folksam.se

Then click on "English" at the top RH corner
Then click on "How safe is your car" in LH margin
Then select the BMW option in the "The Folksam list with real-life accidents" box
Click search
This should then give you the above information.

You can do the same for any other car. :)

It is interesting to note that Folksam have found that Electronic Stability Programme (or whatever any manufacturer calls it) reduces accidents in dry conditions by 35%, in snow and ice by 55% and in wet conditions by 65%.

The moral to the story is that if you can afford to buy a BMW with ESP (they call it ASC) eg E39 523i, do so !

Hope this helps !

Bo

[F4Phantom]

Hey check this link, it had a very basic bar graph on some common bmw's and saftery. Not very qualitative data and to my mind also rubbish accuracy. It shows the E30 is safer than the E34.
http://motoring.racv.com.au/racvm/whichcar/UCSRArticle.cfm?ID=56363EFA-60ED-4624-A7273E1C08AAE167

[goat128]

hey guys i was reading this and though i might add I've never seen e34 crash test data on the iihs web site but I am pretty sure you can get the crash test data on the nhtsa dot web site. I've seen it on there before.

oh let me add this the following generation of 5-series got the highest ratings offered by the institute and they felt it was the best car you could get for 1997 and for quite a while after as well. So I think if they had tested the e34 it probably would have done quite well.

If you wanted to spec a "safest" e34 it would be by feature and you would want a later year with a passenger side airbag in addition to the optional traction control.

[Lennyz525i]

If you want safety, get a Jiangling Landwind, it scored 0 on a crash test, lol.
Here's the video of the crash test. Check the steering wheel ending up behind the driver's head. In a 40 mph head on collision you will not survive in this car.

http://paultan.org/archives/2005/10/07/jiangling-landwind-x6-crash-test-outside-view/

[pundit]

If you want safety, get a Jiangling Landwind, it scored 0 on a crash test, lol.
Here's the video of the crash test. Check the steering wheel ending up behind the driver's head. In a 40 mph head on collision you will not survive in this car.

http://paultan.org/archives/2005/10/07/jiangling-landwind-x6-crash-test-outside-view/
This is the view from inside....

http://paultan.org/archives/2005/10/07/jiangling-landwind-x6-crash-test-passenger-cabin/

Holy ****in' Neck Snappers Batman!!!
I guess these Chinese made mobile coffins could be considered a form of population control.
Just drive over a six inch speed hump at 25mph and you'll probably wind up a quadraplegic if you were lucky!!

As both a manufacturer and importer of electronic security products many Chinese companies will put any kind of compliance labelling on anything you like... even if it doesn't comply. They may get one prototype passed but once production begins.... They just regard this as perfectly normal. I've seen CE approved labelling stuck on products that had never been tested and it goes on all the time.

[Gayle]

[QUOTE=Zeuk in Oz]Notwithstanding SRR2 and BillionPa's excellent contributions, as a parent who bought my kids an E34 to learn to drive on and use as their first car perhaps I should put forward my 2c.


Bo--Most excellent review of safety considerations. My favorite was buy tires you can't afford.


.

[Leo_Straight6]

Thank you all so much for your replies!

Especially Zeuk in Oz!

I'm still on my Ls and I want to move up to a manual car (my Prelude is auto) but me and my parents want a safe car! For my price range one of the safest cars I can get is BMW E34 5 Series.

I'm not chosing a 535iS specifically but my car has to be a manual car. I do admit I am a bit of a power addict as I drive my dad's BMW E39 530i all the time and anything less then that feels quite sluggish...imo.

Unfortunately manual E34s in Australia are quite hard to come by and are, interestingly, most common in 535i form. E34 525i (M20) can be found around but all the people I've come accross who have driven an M20 powered 525i have always commented on their sluggish performance (one guy who said this drives an E21 318i!).

M50 520iM are very hard to find in Australia as well and I don't see them as a good alternative. The 520i's fuel consumption is still pretty bad (a 525i is better cos it dosn't need to rev as hard) and it seems a waste to get a 520i if I can get a 525i (M50) that will save me on fuel!

I also did some figures on fuel consumption and cost comparing an M50 525i and a M30 535i and the 535i's fuel cost is about on par with a 525i partly because it dosn't require premium unleaded. I'd assume M30 parts are also cheaper to get then M50 parts...

Once again, thanks for the prompt replies guys! Keep them coming!

[Alexlind123]

Be sure to tell us all about your e34 when you get it! take lots of pictures, too.

[Zeuk in Oz]

my car has to be a manual car. I do admit I am a bit of a power addict
Leo, if this is the case, I would strongly recommend that you resist the temptation to get a 535. My E34 is an M20 525 and it is so smooth and turbine-like that I am very impressed with it. It might not win any traffic light derbys but it winds up quite nicely in manual form - I would suggest you drive one before discounting it.
It is also very economical - we average 8-9 litres per 100 km in daily driving - quite remarkable.
Early M50 525 cars were available as manual ( however are rare ) in Oz and you might just be able to find one and it would also have an airbag. I still maintain that you would be better off with a 520i if you can find a manual one and it would also have an airbag.

Interestingly the Folksam site doesn't mention Preludes but I would be surprised if it would rate as well as an E34.

Hope you win your parents over but the only problem I see is that you will be spoiled for life, just like my kids are ! :)

Edit : As far as parts are concerned, I do not think there would be much difference between any of the sixes - I buy all my parts from the US at www.bmaparts.com - speak to Patrick - much cheaper than here in Oz.

[Zoik in Aus]

Thank you all so much for your replies!

I'm not chosing a 535iS specifically but my car has to be a manual car. I do admit I am a bit of a power addict as I drive my dad's BMW E39 530i all the time and anything less then that feels quite sluggish...imo.

Unfortunately manual E34s in Australia are quite hard to come by and are, interestingly, most common in 535i form. E34 525i (M20) can be found around but all the people I've come accross who have driven an M20 powered 525i have always commented on their sluggish performance (one guy who said this drives an E21 318i!).




Hello all... as u can probably gather from my original tag, i am an unforntunate relation to my namesake. I am his oldest son, condolences and pity accepted

Now in regards to leo's concern. I can assure u that the M20 2.5L motor is not as sluggish as u think. Once you get the revs up past 3000, i find it goes quite nicely. Although i agree with you about the 535i and would love won myself, hoepfull sooner rather than later.

Hope you convince your parents, my parents didnt have to convince me when they told me what they were buying :D

As for the drug dealing... you will b amazed how much free time u have once you buy such a speedy car... gotta do something in that time ;)

[Jzza4]

I nearly lost my life in an crash a few years ago in an 89 525. I believe the car is the reason I am still here today.

[Gayle]

Beg to differ with one of my favorite Aussies and his offspring. I feel emminently qualified to opine on the experience of driving an M20.

I used to own a 90 325 convertible and hubby had a 90 525, and now have a 90 535 (all 5 speeds). The 325 was hot and the 525 was not.

The 525 was sluggish.... That is the reason I was willing to over pay for the 535, piss my boss off by taking vacation at the worst time, fly across country to get the 535, drive it 3000 miles to get it home. I have never regretted it. I love my car and one of the things I love about it is that it has the power when I need it.

For driving in SoCal where we are all aggressive drivers packed in like sardines, I considered the 525 dangerous for its lack of power. There are times you need to have your car LEAP out of the spot you are in so you don't get hit. The (M20) 525 wasn't up to the task.



http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/e34Gayle/5aatwins.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/e34Gayle/20drear.jpg

[rob101]

Early M50 525 cars were available as manual ( however are rare ) in Oz

I can confirm this as i own an aussie delivered M50 manual.
I am getting a strange sense of deja vu
this reminds me of a conversation i had on another forum....... something about "There are a LOT of variables in real life crashes which can vary the results, thus, reducing their accuracy."

PS hurry up and ditch that honda mate! i think you would find that having to buy premium for the 525i makes the cost in fuel the same for the 535i as the 525i m50 24V as you already mentioned....... and if you don't want to wait until the end of time to get a manual m50 then perhaps you should consider the 535i....... which is ultimately more torquey and powerful than the m50 anyway and the engine design is more simple and durable important if you intend on working on the car yourself. I'd recommend just getting a 535i there are quite a few manuals on the market now in aust you can get them with lux options and be the most blinged out L-plater on the block!

[Leo_Straight6]

Lol Rob,

Yeah I'm going to give an M20 525iM a go and I'll report back when I've tried one.

But I still reckon a 535i or 535iS will be a goer.

Just for those who don't know the Australian models,

The 535iS has M-tech sport seats, chrome ring dials, LSD, m-tech steering wheel and m-tech body kit and sports suspension!

I'd much prefer a 535iS!

Me and my parents have found one but parents are hesitant to buy it because it dosn't have an airbag. Everything else about it is fantastic though, leather is as new, reconditioned engine 80 000km ago, E39 ///M rims (17 inch), full service history, Koni shocks with eibach springs, and reciepts for all the upgrades! (Body has done 260 000km)

I really want that car but my parents take a lot of convincing.....:(

[Gayle]

So guys... Can he install a steering wheel with an airbag? Is that possible? (Even though my sig does not say it anymore, I still consider myself to the be the official spokesperson for the totally clueless.)

If your father owns a bmw, your parents understand that bmws are safe. What they are saying is the car you have your heart set on does not have an airbag.

We have had this whole thread on the general safefy of e34s and it is really just about the airbag. Ask your parents if they would be concerned about the safety of this car if it had an airbag. If the answer is they would not be concerned if it had an airbag and if it is possible to add one, you have your solution.

[Leo_Straight6]

It is possible to add an airbag to the car but to set it up properly so the airbag will fire will probably cost a few thousand dollars, hardly worth it!

Plus I'll have to get rid of the brilliant M-Tech steering wheel and replace it with somthing not quite as nice...

My parents are just used to traveling around in the E39 which has 10 airbags and ASC (mum dosnt know what ASC does still lol) so an E34 with just ABS seems a bit spartan to them...

[Zeuk in Oz]

So guys... Can he install a steering wheel with an airbag? Is that possible? (Even though my sig does not say it anymore, I still consider myself to the be the official spokesperson for the totally clueless.)

If your father owns a bmw, your parents understand that bmws are safe. What they are saying is the car you have your heart set on does not have an airbag.

We have had this whole thread on the general safefy of e34s and it is really just about the airbag. Ask your parents if they would be concerned about the safety of this car if it had an airbag. If the answer is they would not be concerned if it had an airbag and if it is possible to add one, you have your solution.
Theoretically retro-fitting of airbags can be done. It all comes down to cost.

Mercedes offer them as a retro-fit in Oz on their W124 (equivalent age to E34s) models (at least) but I have never heard of it being available from BMW.

I would imagine that for the extra spent you could probably get an E39.

More importantly, IMO, ASC cannot be retro-fitted AFAIK.

I would still question to a certain extent the value of front airbags and would say that ASC would be more important to me as a parent than front airbags. Therefore I would have to disagree with you Gayle that this thread has only been about airbags.

On the question of the M20 2.5 litre motor, please don't think that I am calling it a powerhouse - it certainly is not.

My concern, however, is that in the hands of a 17 year old the 3.5 litre motor will have too much power and particularly torque. I would certainly, no doubt, prefer to drive the 535i myself but feel that looking at the smaller engine is prudent.

It all comes down to expectations and personal preference.

I have driven all sorts of cars, from high powered sports cars to my F250 truck but I still find driving the M20 very rewarding. Admittedly I might not feel the same were it automatic, but the silence and smoothness of the engine is impressive.

The beauty of all this is that it comes down to preferences and priorities. Hopefully Leo and his parents will have some information to digest and use in their decision making, and if so, we have done our bit.

Good luck Leo in you deliberations.

Bo

[romus]

Zeuk, 8-9L you said? That IS impressive, I didn't think it would be so economical. My 535 does about 14.5L combined driving and around 17L in city. It doesn't really seem to matter if you drive it hard or easy. (Tested numerous times with driving 100km after topping up the tank then filling it up again).

Leo, considering consumption, 525 (presuming you find a manual) could be a better option. My weekly petrol bill can easily reach $100 and you can't really say I didn't get out of the car all week.

[SharkmanBMW]

the e34 is the best you can get compared to anything in it's class... surely, if you can afford an e39 with multiple bags, you will be safer.

I seriously broke my face in a crash with no airbags, and have a brain injury because of it... If I had airbags, I would not have broken any bones, and would have MAYBE had a similar brain injury, but likely less substantial since the impact is absorbed by the bag, instead of my brain!
I will never drive in a car without multiple bags, I had to eat through a straw for a total of about 6 months, multiple surgeries, still in physio for my jaw 3 years later, haven't worked since, can't remember what I did last week most of the time......

I had a modded VW years ago, I pulled the airbag and installed a MOMO wheel... it felt awesome, but knowing what I know now, never again.

I understand all of you who swap out the airbag for a sexy wheel... but don't be surprised when your face goes through the steering wheel!

I would prefer however an e34 with no bag to almost any basic american car with an airbag... still safer in a crash and can out-handle any american car out there!

I also fully appreciate the dsc in my 330xi... in the snow, it is almost impossible to lose control, even when I try to spin out, the car just knows what to do to stop it from happening... a little boring until you need it!

face xray after surgery #2, for those who haven't seen it:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/sharkmanedw/finalxray.JPG

[Incantation]

dude trade your parents in with the prelude

[Russell]

Apparently he has parents that care about his safety. Thats a good thing!



dude trade your parents in with the prelude

[rob101]

hey have you thought about getting an e39 523i? i have heard from a very good indy bmw mechanic down the coast that the prices of the e39's are starting to come down again. I remember that e39 528i's used to be 27k now i have seen a few local delivery for around 20k but you could definitely find a decent 523i for low 20s if you look hard enough. http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!cs_content.private_vehicle?vehicle_id=2870254&current_rec=16&used_rec=16&total_rec=20&sort_type=&total_rec=20&sort_type=&make_id=13&model_id=525&state_id=-1&search_distance=25

the e39 has impeccible safety creditials it is significantly more crash worthy than the e34 if you look at the accident data in australia.

[Zeuk in Oz]

hey have you thought about getting an e39 523i?

That was my suggestion as well.

From Leo's spec description of the 535iS that he is looking at, I feel that it wouldn't be far away from an E39 523i with respect to price.

Only problem I see with this is that they are all auto - except for private imports that I think should be avoided like the plague.

An auto E 39 MUST be preferrable to an auto '88 Prelude.

[rob101]

except for private imports that I think should be avoided like the plague.
yes, other week we looked at a private import e39, turned out to be an illegal import without compliance i've never seen a grey import that wasn't fuked.

[Felixdacat]

His parents probably don't want him driving a far superb machine than them. Good luck. When they see all of the responses, I hope they change their minds. I use to drive an 88 Toyota Supra turbo targa. The Bmw is the best vehicle and the smartest purchase that I have made. Once again....GOOD LUCK

[Wyn]

This is what happens when you hit a dear at 65MPH head on.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTEzMTI0NzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg

I think it faired pretty well.

[Leo_Straight6]

Yeah E39 prices are coming down a fair bit, I once saw an E39 528i for about 22 500 !!!

If they were available in manual I'd definately consider. But it's no use if its an auto because I will be using this car to practice on before I get my full liscense! Parents wouldn't want a 2nd E39 on the house anyway (Dad's not happy after seeing the bill for Inspection 2, lol)

This E34 535iS i've seen is 15 000 and negociatioble, E39 523iA for 23 000 is a fair bit more expensive!

btw I just had a thought... Would an airbag in a....say... 1990 car still be working today?

[Zeuk in Oz]

Yeah E39 prices are coming down a fair bit, I once saw an E39 528i for about 22 500 !!!

If they were available in manual I'd definately consider. But it's no use if its an auto because I will be using this car to practice on before I get my full liscense! Parents wouldn't want a 2nd E39 on the house anyway (Dad's not happy after seeing the bill for Inspection 2, lol)

This E34 535iS i've seen is 15 000 and negociatioble, E39 523iA for 23 000 is a fair bit more expensive!

btw I just had a thought... Would an airbag in a....say... 1990 car still be working today?
For what its worth, I still feel an E39 523i is worth looking at. I have seen them as low as $15,500 with plenty at $20,000 now.

The only other alternative if you have to have a manual is an E 46, either 318i, 320i or 325i. These are available in manual but unless they are very recent don't have ASC AFAIK but stand to be corrected.

They certainly came with multiple airbags around 1999-2000 but I would not consider them as safe either dynamically or in a crash as a 5 series.

Sounds to me as though a compromise might be necessary and I'd go with a 523i, if I were you, but spend some time looking for a clean one.

Services costs are something I cannot advise you on, however it would be interesting to see the difference for an inspection II on an E39 compared to an E34. The difference might not be as large as you think.

Airbags in some manufacturers eg Volvo need to be serviced after a statutory number of years but I'm not sure that applies to all marques.

Bo

[Leo_Straight6]

A big reason why I am chosing an E34 over an E36 or E46 is the look of the car.

Some people look at an E36 and reckon its still a $50 000 car! I don't want that, I'm only 16!

I turn so many heads as I drive around in Dad's E39 530i with L plates on it and its so fustrating! I prefer an E34 because of its older, more traditional BMW look. And I must emphasize that the car I get MUST be a manual.

Parents wont buy me an auto car, cos I can practice in the E39 530i anyway!:D


PS: Once again, thank you all that have replied to this thread! I've never come across a forum with such friendly and prompt response to a newbie!

Thanks!!! This forum is fantastic and I look forward to contributing my knowledge here:)

Leo.

Keep the posts coming!

[rob101]

yeah, i wouldn't worry what people think. people still complain about the price of fuel and then go and buy a bottle of water for $2.50 ie people are retarded.... for ease of finding a manual, which looks to be a major consideration. e36 is much easier to find in manual and e36s are very safe also.... soooooooooo perhaps you're missing something here..... if you principle concern is that it looks to expensive, who cares, play it up invite them to your private yacht and make porn.:p Thing is they'd probably think that about a well turned out e34 anyway, you just say "no you're a retard it cost $X". i find people tend to believe you rather than choose option A: of going to your private yacht.:D

[Sweetwater]

Since my 17 yo son totalled out my '94 Audi quattro CS100 several months ago, I have to add one item to this discussion. And I'll admit that I haven't read the entire thread but just the opening page.....

Do not buy older cars that do not have working air bags!

I can not empasize this point enough.

Beyond that, any German sedan will be safer in a collision than the lightweight sedans or sports cars from the Pacific, IMO.

[angrypancake]

Leo you should buy Aussie e34's 540iLe!!!!! god i wish i was in OZ to buy it....

[rob101]

since your parents are so safety conscious, make sure you milk them for a defensive driving course,:p a good one that will get you concessions with your insurer...... its all very well to have electronic gizmos to save your ass but don't neglect the gizmo that sits inbetween the steering wheel and the seat. hell you might even have fun while your doing that course too :p

[SharkmanBMW]

since your parents are so safety conscious, make sure you milk them for a defensive driving course,:p a good one that will get you concessions with your insurer...... its all very well to have electronic gizmos to save your ass but don't neglect the gizmo that sits inbetween the steering wheel and the seat. hell you might even have fun while your doing that course too :p


ditto, the car is only a part of the formula to safe driving, experience is extremely valuable, proper training will help you tons.

Keep in mind driving a bimmer is NOT like driving a front wheel drive honda!

[Zoik in Aus]

Just a quick word on the BMW driver training course. I compeleted the junior (P plater) course and found it not only to be a great deal of fun, but also very helpful in a few ways. It really teaches you how to emergency break and swerve and those kind of things that are very useful, though so far i havnt had to use them (touch wood). It also is a great way to just thrash a brand new BMW 3 series, like i did :D

I do recommend the course very highly, and am thinking of doing the next lvl. You will love it if u do it, trust me ;)

[Leo_Straight6]

Thanks for the posts guys!

I've already taken a defensive driving course and it was so much fun I am going to do it again this coming Sunday!

I've attached a pic of me at the course!
:D

Milked the defensive driving courses....now for the car!;)

I have looked a some 540iLe but they are very hard to come by......
And theres absolutely no way the parents would let it happen... even though it has 2 airbags. Regardless.....Straight6 is better then V8:D

Speaking of 540iLe.... I have a video of my friend's one with an Eisenmann exhaust system and it sounds AWESOME! If anyone wants the video just PM me!

After bickering with my parents about it I'm going to leave it and let things settle... I hope it all goes well!

[rob101]

the dude with the Eisenmann on his 540i LE is the guy who is selling his 540i he posted on here if you look in the for sale section of ECCA forums he has a thread there. straight 6 better than V8? maybe back in the Big Six era of M30s but now?

[Leo_Straight6]

Just saw it mate, that car is nice as but parents would never approve of it.:(

EDC Suspension is awesome but costs so much to replace! Parts for a 540i won't be cheap to get either...:(

[Beemr750]

Air bag or no air bag?

More than a year ago when driving at ~75 mph on a interstate at a rainy night,some ass..le lost a washing machine seconds ahead of me.Needless to say I hit it straight on.The minute I seen it-it was to late for any evasive action.First the air bag blow but I did not touch it with my face because the seatbelt held me down allright.I also had the windows closed which accounted for the moonroof being partially blown out.Besides the yellowish looking stuff out of the air bag made me nauseous and uncomfortable.

The damage to the front ran about $1200 since the scum had a suspended licence,borrowed tag,no insurance,and left the scene rather quick.


I do have another air bag installed to fill the gap,but not hooked up.I think a seatbelt works just as good since I went thru this experience.

[SharkmanBMW]

Air bag or no air bag?

More than a year ago when driving at ~75 mph on a interstate at a rainy night,some ass..le lost a washing machine seconds ahead of me.Needless to say I hit it straight on.The minute I seen it-it was to late for any evasive action.First the air bag blow but I did not touch it with my face because the seatbelt held me down allright.I also had the windows closed which accounted for the moonroof being partially blown out.Besides the yellowish looking stuff out of the air bag made me nauseous and uncomfortable.

The damage to the front ran about $1200 since the scum had a suspended licence,borrowed tag,no insurance,and left the scene rather quick.


I do have another air bag installed to fill the gap,but not hooked up.I think a seatbelt works just as good since I went thru this experience.

a washing machine and a moving vehicle are not the same in a crash, good luck - has an airbag but won't use it.... now I've heard it all!

[Zeuk in Oz]

Air bag or no air bag?

More than a year ago when driving at ~75 mph on a interstate at a rainy night,some ass..le lost a washing machine seconds ahead of me.Needless to say I hit it straight on.The minute I seen it-it was to late for any evasive action.First the air bag blow but I did not touch it with my face because the seatbelt held me down allright.I also had the windows closed which accounted for the moonroof being partially blown out.Besides the yellowish looking stuff out of the air bag made me nauseous and uncomfortable.

The damage to the front ran about $1200 since the scum had a suspended licence,borrowed tag,no insurance,and left the scene rather quick.


I do have another air bag installed to fill the gap,but not hooked up.I think a seatbelt works just as good since I went thru this experience.
Must agree with SharkmanBMW here and I hope I did not give anyone the wrong idea about my view of airbags.

I would always choose a car with front airbags over a car with no airbags. All i was trying to say was that sometimes airbags aren't available in a particular car and IMHO I'd rather be in an E34 without airbags than a little 800 kg buzzbox with airbags.

Beemr750 - just because you didn't need the airbag in your last crash doesn't mean it won't assist you next time - connect the damn thing !

By the way, have you had your seatbelt replaced after the accident ? If not, do it !

[rob101]

Besides the yellowish looking stuff out of the air bag made me nauseous and uncomfortable.
thats because sodium azide is poisonous.......... its better than getting facial reconstruction. i have to agree with zeuk though i am sick of d-heads saying oh my hyundai excel has airbags its much safer than your car (my car does have an airbag though but even if it didn't it'd still be safer)......... ********e, i'd rather have a broken nose than end up being the meat in a seat and dashboard sandwich........ has anyone seen the only car to get zero stars in the Euro CAP tests? chinese POS WITH airbag, but the car has no structural rigidity thus the dash etc. crush the occupant. as an engineer myself, i believe everyone places waaaaaaaaay too much emphasis on airbags, and airbag isn't going to help if you car gets ripping in half. that said airbags are important but for example the choice between a hyundai excel with airbag vs bmw e34 without one.... i'd take the bmw anyday.

[Alexlind123]

4-point racing harness with a restrained helmet FTW.

[Beemr750]

In reply to you guys suggestions, I'm all for air bags if available and economicly visible. In my case it melted the air bag wires all the way down the steering column.I did repair the rest of the wires leadiing up to the steering wheel without doing a complete harness job.The air bag I found fits the steering wheel but the horn slip ring came with, is of a later design and uncompatible. The old slip ring is completly shorted out as far as the a/b power flow goes.It's ok to use the horns.

I did not won't to go thru another great expense like get a steering wheel too, where this slip ring would fit.

I look it this way,air bags are a good invention, but than again I drove many,many years without it, not even seatbelts were known then... bla.bla..Can't live forever.But I rather like to be a defensive driver, even with a E34 - if possible,than rely on every safety gadget avail.

[E34-520iSE]

For one thing, ALL bmw 5-series have ABS and have had ABS for at least the past 20 years.

Mine hasn't! ;)

Cheers,

Shaun

[SharkmanBMW]

http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=14328

pics after crash, a link from Shogun

[Sean H]

I had a bad one in my old E34 three years ago:

http://www.student.gsu.edu/~jhannay1/car.jpg

T-boned by a concrete wall. Not a scratch on me. In fact, the car was still somewhat drivable afterwards. :p

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

run a stop or something.

Those and the killer trees, car hating telephone poles and the occasional ill tempered canal are a menace drivers everywhere

[SharkmanBMW]

it looks like the concrete wall may have been at a track day with him and run him down!

I hope you got the numbers off the window before the insurance saw it!

[BFEINZIMER]

Very true, some biotch in a Dodge Neon was trin to race me today it was very funny but yea I have never driven a 525i and and knew nothign about bimmers when I got mine, glad I went for the 535 I love!


Beg to differ with one of my favorite Aussies and his offspring. I feel emminently qualified to opine on the experience of driving an M20.

I used to own a 90 325 convertible and hubby had a 90 525, and now have a 90 535 (all 5 speeds). The 325 was hot and the 525 was not.

The 525 was sluggish.... That is the reason I was willing to over pay for the 535, piss my boss off by taking vacation at the worst time, fly across country to get the 535, drive it 3000 miles to get it home. I have never regretted it. I love my car and one of the things I love about it is that it has the power when I need it.

For driving in SoCal where we are all aggressive drivers packed in like sardines, I considered the 525 dangerous for its lack of power. There are times you need to have your car LEAP out of the spot you are in so you don't get hit. The (M20) 525 wasn't up to the task.



http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/e34Gayle/5aatwins.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/e34Gayle/20drear.jpg

[Gayle]

Sort of weird to open this moldy oldie thread and see my cars...... but as long as this thread has been revived from the dead, I think we should add some anecdotal evidence to the e34's safety:


E34 saved my life... (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=28718)

[BFEINZIMER]

Haha nice to notice, I ran a search after reading that thread and camp up with this...o btw you heard anything about the BMW pErformance Driving schools, I think I've convinced my parents to let me do it...

alrite, out to party, happy new year everyone!


Sort of weird to open this moldy oldie thread and see my cars...... but as long as this thread has been revived from the dead, I think we should add some anecdotal evidence to the e34's safety:


E34 saved my life... (http://www.bimmer.info/forum/showthread.php?t=28718)

[Gayle]

alrite, out to party, happy new year everyone!
Watch out for the amateur drunks.

[hk20000]

the 525i is just a commuter car. to achieve the quickness and sportiness of the Prelude Si (I had a 1988 Si before for a bit) at the very least get a 535. I'm driving the 525 because I already have a much faster car at home and I don't need to race to work or something. 525i manual 0-100km/h is rated at 8.8 or something and it's even a tad slower than a manual 1988Si (and I drive an auto....the ultimate sluggish machine). As for safety you can't go much better than a BMW car..... Especially your dad owns a E39 I find it amusing that he thinks a E34 BMW is unsafe compared to what you drive.

But again they probably just don't want to maintain another BMW coz they are really a bitch to work with after their peak 5 years. Japanese cars may be flimsy but they tend to go on and on well past 300,000km....Especially the economy cars. Ask the driving instructors and taxi drivers why Camrys and Corollas are their weapons of choice.

[mattyb]

no camry or corolla taxis in OZ mate !

[hk20000]

out here in Vancouver the weapon of choice is actually this:
http://john1701a.com/prius/owners/andrew_autoshow_1-mini.jpg
Jeremy Clarkson may hate it because it's slow, it's cheaply made and it looks ugly, but it makes absolutely perfect sense as a taxi. Talked to one of those taxi drivers and against common believe those hybrid batteries lasted them well past 440,000km and the car has used an amount of gas of what a normal car would have used in 200,000km.
http://john1701a.com/prius/owners/andrew_prius-taxi_2-mini.jpg

pretty neat to see these things roll around town, knowing that they are doing their job using maybe 1/3 the amount of gas a 540i would use doing exactly the same thing. And that wedge shape makes them look like cars from Minority Report. :D

[Incantation]

yea.. actually yellow cab traded in a couple priuses at 300,000k (or something) back to toyota and got two new ones for free cuz toyota wanted to do some R&D to see how the cars handled the mileage

this was back when they came out.. i think they racked 300k in a year

[repenttokyo]

Very true, some biotch in a Dodge Neon was trin to race me today it was very funny but yea I have never driven a 525i and and knew nothign about bimmers when I got mine, glad I went for the 535 I love!


I actually bought my 525 because it was significantly slower than my last car. I had a pretty horrible accident in November and I need to get out of the racing world for a while. I find the 525 has enough power not to be boring, but not enough power to make me feel like it could race anyone. Which is perfect.

[hk20000]

^ is it? I find 0-100 taking longer than a 2007 Corolla quite boring...

I guess it has the RWD layout for some handling fun... power-wise it's pretty bad :P

[repenttokyo]

^ is it? I find 0-100 taking longer than a 2007 Corolla quite boring...

I guess it has the RWD layout for some handling fun... power-wise it's pretty bad :P


having driven a 2007 corolla extensively, there is absolutely no comparison between the 2 cars. thank goodness!

my 525 has well over 100 hp less than my last ride, but the fact that I still find it interesting is a testament to the handling and driver experience that I find quite pleasant. I don't see how you could compare a 5 series to an entry level economy car. Driving a corolla is what I imagine being dead is like :D

[Zeuk in Oz]

Wonder what he actually bought......

Interesting to seem my comments and to realise that I took my own advice and bought an E39 for its safety features !

[rob101]

Wonder what he actually bought......

Interesting to seem my comments and to realise that I took my own advice and bought an E39 for its safety features !
He was looking at e36s last I heard which is funny because they cost more than e34s lol but anyway I think some of that is the lack of manuals post 1992 in e34 that aren't M5s or M-sport 540i s (which cost as much as m5s here) there are way more 3ers in manual though

[bmwalfa]

honda or bmw
that is a dumb question

[ryan roopnarine]

wtf? the fastest corolla is .2 or .3 seconds away from the 0-60 times of the slowest 4 valve e34 and its the superior machine? ohkay. the corolla weighs more than 1,000 lbs less than an e34 and has 164 hp (fastest) or 12x hp (slowest) and has 13 year newer technology. no automotive reviewer gives the faster of the two models a time under 8 seconds. so unless you are exceptionally good with breaking in motors or have the toyota corona turbonium edition, you might wanna change the plugs and air filter in the e34. nobody here denies that technology has eclipsed the once bleeding edge performance of the e34. consider going back to 1989.5 or so and see who else was getting 189 hp from 2.5l back then.

[yy101]

He was looking at e36s last I heard which is funny because they cost more than e34s lol but anyway I think some of that is the lack of manuals post 1992 in e34 that aren't M5s or M-sport 540i s (which cost as much as m5s here) there are way more 3ers in manual though

Lol I hate you, I have to work today.

Anyway I made it back to Gladstone, dont know how but I did...just reading this thread, I remember that e39 I almost bought but turned out to be the dodgy grey import, wonder what happened to it?

[rob101]

wtf? the fastest corolla is .2 or .3 seconds away from the 0-60 times of the slowest 4 valve e34 and its the superior machine? ohkay. the corolla weighs more than 1,000 lbs less than an e34 and has 164 hp (fastest) or 12x hp (slowest) and has 13 year newer technology. no automotive reviewer gives the faster of the two models a time under 8 seconds. so unless you are exceptionally good with breaking in motors or have the toyota corona turbonium edition, you might wanna change the plugs and air filter in the e34. nobody here denies that technology has eclipsed the once bleeding edge performance of the e34. consider going back to 1989.5 or so and see who else was getting 189 hp from 2.5l back then.
192 hp over here and the only corolla that comes anywhere near a manual 525i m50 or m20 is a corrolla sportivo which does 0-100 in low 7s and that car is manic it has the current celica engine.

[hk20000]

yes we are comparing cars of different era here but in the end of the day you are driving it TODAY in 2007 not back in 1989. To drive the 525i on roads where the average economy car well matches your P.W.R. is lackluster experience. Sure handling is all good but flooring your car to keep up with a Toyota Sienna - AND get dusted by it good is NOT.

Actually, in 1989 you have to consider toyota's main rival for the 525i, instead of the economy flimsy Corolla consider the 1989 Toyota Cressida. 3.0L DOHC 24valves and does 190HP = one horsepower ahead of a 525i with the M50. RWD, 4 doors and helluva fun car driving it side by side with the 1991 BMW 525i. although it was only offered in North America with 4 speed automatic it can sprint to 100km/h in 8.8 seconds, matching that of a manual 525, costing about 2/3 of the money when new, and 1/3 the money today.

Why would I know? hell I own both cars.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid220/p44f5dd0fd34691ecee04dbe13ebaa7f6/eb9de89d.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/p2e80f85e4e60516bfa2cfa01b783ffb2/f0049c11.jpg

I'm by no means knocking on BMW's rep as strong and safe cars. But if you say the E34 525i is fun you really need to try out more stuff....newer bimmers (or same age bimmer with bigger engines) or just newer cars in general.

[yy101]

yes we are comparing cars of different era here but in the end of the day you are driving it TODAY in 2007 not back in 1989. To drive the 525i on roads where the average economy car well matches your P.W.R. is lackluster experience. Sure handling is all good but flooring your car to keep up with a Toyota Sienna - AND get dusted by it good is NOT.

Actually, in 1989 you have to consider toyota's main rival for the 525i, instead of the economy flimsy Corolla consider the 1989 Toyota Cressida. 3.0L DOHC 24valves and does 190HP = one horsepower ahead of a 525i with the M50. RWD, 4 doors and helluva fun car driving it side by side with the 1991 BMW 525i. although it was only offered in North America with 4 speed automatic it can sprint to 100km/h in 8.8 seconds, matching that of a manual 525, costing about 2/3 of the money when new, and 1/3 the money today.

Why would I know? hell I own both cars.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid220/p44f5dd0fd34691ecee04dbe13ebaa7f6/eb9de89d.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/p2e80f85e4e60516bfa2cfa01b783ffb2/f0049c11.jpg

I'm by no means knocking on BMW's rep as strong and safe cars. But if you say the E34 525i is fun you really need to try out more stuff....newer bimmers or just newer cars in general.

Cressida, 525i, Sportivo etc...meh my 540i will eat you all for breakfast lol...

Btw I dont think a Corolla Sportivo with a 1.8L VVTLi Celica mill in it is a economy car...

And why would you even compare a 525i of the 90s to the average economy car of this era? The 525i will still outclass it in every respect except fuel economy and PWR, and if PWR is what matters and the ability to dust 18yos in brand new hitech 4cyl hatch backs...get an ///M or a 540i :D

[yy101]

Actually there is one car that I might be tempted to pick over my e34...the new Toyota Aurion, saw a black one on the freeway yesterday, looks sweet.

Think...200kW, V6 with VVTi, its a Toyota (low insurance, safe and economic), its NOT a Holden, its 0-100 is like low-mid 7s, its new, and again its NOT a Holden.

Actually the e34 still holds up pretty well against the Aurion IMHO.

[rob101]

yeah the aurion is quicker than a XR6 which surprised me. mind you i'd go a xr6 when they get down a bit, depreciation of those australian cars can be more than 50% in the first 3 years. which...... well i'd just rather not and buy 2nd hand. the other thing is well, are there good communities for support for these new cars. I don't think so, the wealth of knowledge that is out there for most bmws still astounds me. also you can feel that bmw puts alot of effort into their cars.

[repenttokyo]

I'm by no means knocking on BMW's rep as strong and safe cars. But if you say the E34 525i is fun you really need to try out more stuff....newer bimmers (or same age bimmer with bigger engines) or just newer cars in general.


i think you need to consider other people's perspectives. after hitting a wall at over 200 km/h in my "fun" car, i have decided that "fun" for me is now much slower, and I enjpy the slowness and agility of the 525i. If you read the post I made that started this all off, it was to say that I bought the 525i because it was considerably slower than my last car.


As for "trying out more stuff", well I've driven everything from Studebakers to Vipers....Not everyone wants to drive a rocket sled. I certainly don't want to be driving a fast car right now.

[hk20000]

no don't take it personally it's not even directed to you. It's some other dude that kept knocking on the comparison of 1989 525i with a 2007 Corolla that I'm responding to....I just think you can't knock on 2007 cheaper machines like that because "it's an economy car". Yes they lack soul and spirit but then they are the more advanced machinery, too. the 07 econ cars have better crash test score, better fuel economy, better for the environment yet it goes faster and in many cases even turn better. Yet some dude have it so hard that BMW is the best machine that the 1989 BMW product must be better than a 2007 economy car.

525i is cool and awesome in handling I never said otherwise. But fun it might just be a bit lacking, like this dude said, a 540i would eat all these comparison for breakfast. :D You want a slower car then all the power to ya.

[ryan roopnarine]

i never said that my car was a sporty car.

hahahaha how ribald, a 3.0l cresida against a 525i

3.0 !=2.5,

lets see, in 1990 the direct competitor against the 4 valve e34 was....
the lexus es 250 sporting a blistering 156 hp from 2.5l

if you want to go cheaper for rwd performance, how about a 1990 chevy camaro? that probably cost less than your cressida, and it makes 208 hp from 5l. since the .5 difference between the cressida and the 525i makes absolutely no difference, whatsoever, the 2l difference doesn't either, no? 189-192 hp from 2.5l in 1989.5 was bleeding edge at the time, whether you acknowledge it or not

the place of the japanese is to hang back 2 or 3 years and make reliable versions of the bleeding edge cars produced by the germans (now that the british are negligible in the grand scheme of things). maybe italians, i don't own a maserati quattroporte to know. i don't begrudge anybody buying a lexus to avoid german car headaches, it's where the smart money goes. but don't even try to pretend that the japanese (or the koreans) have a single original thought in their heads, with respect to cars (or most technologies, for that matter) as they don't. same thing as when i worked for lucent technologies in their semiconductor production fab. the american production equipment was absolute ****, constantly leaving patterns on wafers. there was an army of short japanese men constantly running around under the semi-transparent floors trying to make the excellent japanese machinery work better. there was a japanese drying unit that picked an object the size of a household clothing dryer up and spun it to 1500-2000 rpm, all without transmitting a single bit of perceivable vibration to a person standing a foot away from it. though i knew the answer to the question, i asked a nameless, faceless engineer (who i'd never have to work with, hence me asking them) as to why, if the japanese made such superior production equipment, why they didn't positively own the design market on the semiconductors themselves. as i thought, they responded with "....still takes a fatass, imprecise american/western european engineer to come up with original ideas and actually make them work, as the japanese were unable to do this themselves. but once the idea was successfully executed, just sit back and let them perfect them themselves, as nobody would/could do this better" (paraphrased of course)

i have no hatred in my heart for the japanese. but until they prove otherwise, their niche is in making other people's ideas work reliably--NOT being on the bleeding edge. if i was married and my wife wanted a premium car, i'd probably try to harass her into buying a lexus. if i wanted a transportation appliance, i'd be in a toyota corolla manual in a heartbeat. if i needed a high mpg 2nd car, same story. i quite like my perfected 1960s american car with excellent handling and smatterings of 1990s computer technology. my car lived in ny for its first 10 years. it has slight rust in hidden places. this rust has made absolutely no advance movement since it has been in florida. if this car feels up to it, i have no doubt that the chassis will hold up to 500k, unlike a japanese car in a similar upbringing that will probably buckle in half far before then. i can give similar reasons for liking my car all day long, but i won't.

[repenttokyo]

i'll have to take issue with your assertion that the japanese never have original ideas in the automotive field. Mazda is still the only company to mass produce, to this day, a rotary engine powered car, not to mention they helped bring the Miller cycle engine to market.

In addition, Toyota was the first car company to ask "Why don't minivans have icemakers?" ;)

[ryan roopnarine]

i'll have to take issue with your assertion that the japanese never have original ideas in the automotive field. Mazda is still the only company to mass produce, to this day, a rotary engine powered car, not to mention they helped bring the Miller cycle engine to market.

In addition, Toyota was the first car company to ask "Why don't minivans have icemakers?" ;)

I think i rest my case when i say the names of the inventors/competitors in one of your examples are miller and otto:D

[Bill R.]

It wasn't otto, it was Felix Wankel on the rotary, also a german. And DKW and NSU were the first manufacturers to use rotaries, Mazda refined the design and made it practical.



I think i rest my case when i say the names of the inventors/competitors in one of your examples are miller and otto:D

[ryan roopnarine]

It wasn't otto, it was Felix Wankel on the rotary, also a german. And DKW and NSU were the first manufacturers to use rotaries, Mazda refined the design and made it practical.

nah, i was more going along the lines of miller cycle v. otto cycle. but both otto and wankel are germans, so it doesn't hurt me any :D

[repenttokyo]

I think i rest my case when i say the names of the inventors/competitors in one of your examples are miller and otto:D


they maybe have invented the technology, but they never applied it to mass produced automobiles. That was my point: originality in the market place from a Japanese company.

[Bill R.]

33 and 37,000 of the Ro80's rotary engine car long before mazda did. What do you consider mass produced?




they maybe have invented the technology, but they never applied it to mass produced automobiles. That was my point: originality in the market place from a Japanese company.

[repenttokyo]

33 and 37,000 of the Ro80's rotary engine car long before mazda did. What do you consider mass produced?


if i recall correctly, NSU, before and after it was absorbed, had many problems with the rotary cars - they weren't reliable, they got poor fuel economy, and the rotor tip seals just didn't last. Essentially, it was a prototype engine shoehorned into a platform that was in all other respects very good.

Historically it's an important car, but I wouldn't call it a sucessfully mass produced automobile - AU pulled the car quickly and killed rotary designs. I would view it more as a proof of concept than a mass produced model. Just my opinion though.

[Bill R.]

mazda rotary trucks when they first came out back in 1975 and you pretty much described it to a T. Wasn't reliable, got poor fuel economy and the rotor tip seals didn't last... They still don't get good fuel economy and the tip seal problem wasn't solved until around 1980 or 81 if i recall correctly, my 12a still had the tip seal probem and it was a 79. So as Ryan first stated the Japanese have been good at making things better but not typically at original designs.




if i recall correctly, NSU, before and after it was absorbed, had many problems with the rotary cars - they weren't reliable, they got poor fuel economy, and the rotor tip seals just didn't last. Essentially, it was a prototype engine shoehorned into a platform that was in all other respects very good.

Historically it's an important car, but I wouldn't call it a sucessfully mass produced automobile - AU pulled the car quickly and killed rotary designs. I would view it more as a proof of concept than a mass produced model. Just my opinion though.

[repenttokyo]

i still find it impressive that mazda was able to take a technology designed for high maintenance aircraft and refine it enough to apply it to a consumer automobile, when all other manufacturers had essentially failed. Impressive, and a little crazy at the same time ;)