Its final - I cannot get crank bolt off

[Jon K]

I used a piece of 1/4" steel flat bar, drilled a hole in there, grabbed a crank pulley bolt, threaded it thru and used the floor as a stop. Turned the bolt counter clock wise with 4' breaker bar, SNAP goes the bolt in the crank pulley end. Thinking they aren't bolts rated for that kind of force, I move to the flywheel end... put one in so that it stops against the engine stand/bar, SNAP goes that bolt too.


Wtf do I do now.

[632 Regal]

Big D says it was 600 ft lbs and he had to use 2 hands so whats your problem?

[Kalevera]

3/4" impact gun, 3/4" socket.

Remount the flywheel if it's not still in place, fab up a copy of the factory tool (picture should be in TIS -- check group 11, then should be somewhere around 031) or use the real mccoy. Edit: actually, the picture probably isn't in TIS -- can snap a few and give dimensions if I go in tomorrow. Or, find a ring gear with holes through it, find a large brass drift that'll fit through one of those holes and snug up against the block (assume you've got the pan off). Make sure it's a brass drift.

It'll be off in two seconds that way...do it all the time.

For torquing? 5 foot long 3/4" torque wrench :)

best, whit

[Jon K]

3/4" impact gun, 3/4" socket.

Remount the flywheel if it's not still in place, fab up a copy of the factory tool (picture should be in TIS -- check group 11, then should be somewhere around 031) or use the real mccoy. Edit: actually, the picture probably isn't in TIS -- can snap a few and give dimensions if I go in tomorrow. Or, find a ring gear with holes through it, find a large brass drift that'll fit through one of those holes and snug up against the block (assume you've got the pan off). Make sure it's a brass drift.

It'll be off in two seconds that way...do it all the time.

For torquing? 5 foot long 3/4" torque wrench :)

best, whit


Pics of any of this?

I have it on an engine stand, so flywheel won't fit :(

[632 Regal]

all you need is a big D...lol, I miss that guy.

[Jon K]

a big what

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

to the crank and block will hold it tight while you break it free.

[Bellicose Right Winger]

You need to redesign your holder to pickup at least 3 or 4 of the 8mm(?) bolts in the front crankshaft hub. Bolts have to be tight also, if not then they'll likely shear also.

I'd avoid trying to hold crank from flywheel end. Crankshaft is long and you'll feel the crankshaft deflect at these torques.

Also, be careful you don't break your engine stand. These are large loads that you're applying to the unsupported end of the engine.

Paul Shovestul




I used a piece of 1/4" steel flat bar, drilled a hole in there, grabbed a crank pulley bolt, threaded it thru and used the floor as a stop. Turned the bolt counter clock wise with 4' breaker bar, SNAP goes the bolt in the crank pulley end. Thinking they aren't bolts rated for that kind of force, I move to the flywheel end... put one in so that it stops against the engine stand/bar, SNAP goes that bolt too.


Wtf do I do now.

[yaofeng]

Pics of any of this?

I have it on an engine stand, so flywheel won't fit :(

You are very screwed. I had the same situation on my 525i last summer. The twin mass was too thick so I removed it to fit the engine on the stand. On hind sight I should have loosened the crank bolt (318 ft-lbs?) in car but it won't help you now. I Jammed a big flat blade screw driver between two flywheel bolts trying to turn it. It damaged the lip of the end of the crank. Major disaster. I had to trim about 1/4" off the end by Dremel. See picture.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/yaofengchen/DSC_1707.jpg

Anyway, so how did I do it...Trying to remember now. Yeah, I opened the sump. Turned the block upside down. Then jammed a piece of 2x4 between the crank shaft and the block to turn the bolt loose. I think that's is your only hope now. There is no way to get eny other leverage without the flywheel on the stand.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/yaofengchen/DSC_1712.jpg

But you know if you have the engine in car, you can insert a punch of 1/4" diameter in the hole below the starter. Line up the engine at No.1 TDC, you can lock the crankshaft to the block and turn the bolt loose that way.

[winfred]

if you have the pan off sticking a chunk of wood between the crank counterweight and the block works like a charm, otherwise it's build something that may or may not work/**** up the crank if you build it crapyly, i guess if the head is on you could try filling a cylinder with oil but that'd be messy, real messy if you got the valve timing wrong and filled it on the wrong stroke. if you build something bolt it to the back of the crank so you are using the larger bolts that are less likely to sheer unless you make something that uses all of the 13mm's on the front

[bjl4776]

find a buddy at the bimmer dealership near you and borrow one. That what I did. It uses all 6 bolts on the crank hub so it wont snap.

[Jon K]

I am going to try the chunk of wood method next. That wont **** up the crank?

[yaofeng]

I am going to try the chunk of wood method next. That wont **** up the crank?

My 525i is still running.

[Kalevera]

I've used the chunk of wood method, too. Works great if the engine's still in the car and the pan is off. Otherwise I'd stick to the factory tool or a drift through a hole in the ring gear.

Paul makes a good point about crank deflection. I've never really encountered that because I've only used that method with the engine out of the car/using a 3/4" impact that takes the nut off in five seconds. I suppose it would be more apparent and critical to the crank when using a breaker bar.

Can snap some pics, probably tomorrow, if still needed. Should have some pics of the flange tool around here somewhere, though.

best, whit

[Kobe Diesel]

Put some heat on it, with beeswax and/or regular coca-cola.

[JMI]

Put some heat on it, with beeswax and/or regular coca-cola.

That's a seaman's solution for ya! ;)

[Incantation]

hit the gym ya puss

[Kobe Diesel]

That's a seaman's solution for ya! ;)

You know what I'm talking about! But regular Coke does wonders, something I learned from a Swedish tech rep.

[bahnstormer]

coke will take ur paint off in a day or two =]

[Kalevera]

Coke? Beeswax? Explicame.

best, whit

[angrypancake]

highway road crews carry gallons of coke with them... it cleans deer (roadkill) blood.... and apparently if you leave a 16oz t-bone submerged in a bowl of coke it will be totally gone in 24 hours.

[Kalevera]

Nat, that last bit of info sounds like something hannibal lechter would have discovered. And used.

[angrypancake]

haha yeah, i was wrong, it's 2 days. here's some other interesting things...


Pour a can of coke into the toilet bowl, let sit for one hour, then flush clean. The citric acid in coke removes stains from china.

To remove rust spots from chrome car bumpers, rub with aluminum foil dipped in coke.

A can of coke will bubble away the corrosion on car battery terminals.

A cloth soaked in Coke will loosen a rusted bolt.

Empty a can of coke into a load of greasy clothes, add detergent and run through a regular cycle. The coke will loosen grease stains.

It will also clean road haze from your windshield.

The active ingredient in coke is phosphoric acid. It will dissolve a nail in about 4 days. It leeches calcium from bones and is a major contributor to the rising increase in osteoporosis.

To carry Coca-Cola syrup, a commercial truck must use the Hazardous Material cards reserved for highly corrosive materials.

The distributors of coke have been using it to clean the engines of their trucks for about 20 years.

[Jon K]

hit the gym ya puss


It has nothing to do with strength, i sheared 2 grade 10 bolts in half, so I am confident in that.


I used the wood block idea between the crank shaft counter weight and it worked a charm. I then knocked all 6 pistons out noting the bearings etc. The wear on all said items is great! The engine looks like a low mileage motor but it apparently is not.

The only thing I am having trouble with is the hub that the crankshaft pulley bolts to is pressed on pretty tight and I can't really get it off yet. I may rent a gear puller and see if that does the trick. Any ideas on this one guys?

[Felixdacat]

Try putting the breaker bar and socket on the crank bolt, place the end of the bar on the ground, and tap the ignition, being carefull not to start the car. This should work.

[Dave M]

I used the wood block idea between the crank shaft counter weight and it worked a charm.

Jon, how many blocks of wood did you use? Did you spread the force out over a few couterweights? I have a suspicion that my M50 crank was bent due to this procedure, I'll never know, but its in the back of my head. 400+ NM of torque on a breaker bar, with the force applied to a single couterbalance seems like a lot of force.

Anyhow, I'm sure you gave it enough thought. Good luck with the rest of it :)

Dave M

[Jon K]

Jon, how many blocks of wood did you use? Did you spread the force out over a few couterweights? I have a suspicion that my M50 crank was bent due to this procedure, I'll never know, but its in the back of my head. 400+ NM of torque on a breaker bar, with the force applied to a single couterbalance seems like a lot of force.

Anyhow, I'm sure you gave it enough thought. Good luck with the rest of it :)

Dave M


I only used one piece of wood as recommended by winfred. the wood doesnt deflect the force like a metal block wood, it distorts and takes shape of the counter balance...i dont know, the crank still turns straight and all it seems, I don't see that removal procedure enough to bend a crank

[632 Regal]

the forces between hanging on a breaker is a lot different than using an impact.

[Jon K]

u saying breaker is worse?

[genphreak]

Can you not lock the output end of the crank with something against the engine stand?

If not, is the head off yet?

I had the same problem with an old M30 with the head off.

What I did was grab a handy piece of 40x40mm thick Square Hollow Section steel tube (about 8" long will do) and drill two holes through the walls, so on one side you could see straight through the SHS, thorugh both holes. I drilled the holes exactly the same length apart as the diagonal distance between the head bolts across each cylinder

I also made a few squares of wood to fit into the bore as I was plannign to spread the pressure over the piston top. Be carefull if it has lumps in the surface- one needs to cater for these by taking some meat out of one of your wooden blocks as you don't want uneven pressure cracking the piston).

Moving the crank nut I found a cylinder that was well on its way up the bore and popped the wooden squares down onto the piston surface. then I placed the SHS tube diagonally accross the bore and dropped an old head bolt through the hole at each end of the tube, screwing them well into the threads in the block surface, but not tight. I had some more wooden packers to make the positioning of it all easy.

So as you can guess the idea was to jam the piston so that when I tried to loosen the crank nut it would rise against the wood which would push against the SHS tube and pull against the head bolts.

I actually did this on 2 cylinders, but I am sure it would work on one only, I was being paranoid about splitting a bore or piston in the process.

This securely jammed the motor in the kind of way that it is designed to take a lot pressure. It took 16" of SHS (40x40x4.0mm (you want 4mm wall thickess) cut in two, 4 holes on the drill press and 8 3" squares of timber.

After that all I had to do was undo the nut, which I tried but promptly broke the breaker bar clean through in an incredible effort at the end of our (only 3') pipe.

In the end we cut the sucker off the damn crank (that was sooooo hard and almost heart breaking after all this- a friend of mine who is a lot handier with a mini grinder than me did it. It was a hell of a job, basically he ground it down to the thread on two opposite sides hoping the stress would do the work for us. Eventually it did and it unscrewed rather obligingly, coming off in 2 pieces.

It was very hard to leave enough meat on the nut to get enough purchase with the socket to help break the tension.

I bought a new crank nut, but the balancer didn't go on until last. I had no way to tighten it past the turning pressure of the engine itself (you can't lock the motor with an auto transmission) so I plan to get it tightened at a shop that has the tool Whit describes.

Sometimes life is easier driving a Ford... it's part of the price we pay for excellence I guess.

If you decide to cut it be very careful... that's all I can say. :) Nick

[genphreak]

Try putting the breaker bar and socket on the crank bolt, place the end of the bar on the ground, and tap the ignition, being carefull not to start the car. This should work.I've never done this, but it sounds like you could blow your ring gear or your starter or both too...

[Jon K]

i just blocked the crankshaft weights with wood, its off :)

[joshua43214]

I've never done this, but it sounds like you could blow your ring gear or your starter or both too...

it's actualy an old tried and true method, works very well. it imitates an impact gun and will actualy put less stress on parts than a breaker bar. there is another fun old tool, but I am not sure where you get them any more call a hammer wrench. its basicaly a large long casting with a knob on the end and a hole for a socket in the middle. set it up and beat on it with a big hammer, you see firemen use them sometimes to loosen the caps on fire hydrants.

[genphreak]

it's actualy an old tried and true method, works very well. it imitates an impact gun and will actualy put less stress on parts than a breaker bar. there is another fun old tool, but I am not sure where you get them any more call a hammer wrench. its basicaly a large long casting with a knob on the end and a hole for a socket in the middle. set it up and beat on it with a big hammer, you see firemen use them sometimes to loosen the caps on fire hydrants.OK, cool- the idea worries me but I am glad to learn of it working for others - experience is usually better than ignorance. I wish I could use this method to tighten the wretched thing!!! Knowing my luck it'd tighten the thing up to 900ftlbs and then strip my ring gear before I could get my key off the starter switch... Cheers :) Nick

[winfred]

i've done that to loosen them before when i just don't want to pull the radiator to fit in my impact, spins the wrong way to tighten but i always kill the coil wire or main relay to prevent starting, i get a buddy to hold the ring gear with a prybar to tighten just get in a good position with the tip of the bar between the teeth, sometimes this position doesn't work


OK, cool- the idea worries me but I am glad to learn of it working for others - experience is usually better than ignorance. I wish I could use this method to tighten the wretched thing!!! Knowing my luck it'd tighten the thing up to 900ftlbs and then strip my ring gear before I could get my key off the starter switch... Cheers :) Nick