$1200 repair quote!?! E34 Gurus HELP!

[ILoveMPower]

Alright, well, I've had my 1990 535iM for about 8-9 months now. Everything was fine, until I got my snow tires mounted and balanced. I noticed a very slight shimmy/vibration at about 45-35mph when deccelerating. I kept putting this off, as it was ever so slight and could usually be prevented by simply using the gears to slow me down.

Then my temp gauge stopped working. Since I had a brake linings warning that WOULD NOT go away even after replacing mint pads and mint sensors, I figured I'd take it to the pros (Bergeron, hell, they even have M-stripes painted on their wrecker) for some quick fixes.

Well I arrived home today to a phone call stating the estimate was $1200.
:(
They said I need 2 new control arms, 2 center link arms, and 2 idler arms.

Now I understand BMW's have very sensitive/delicate suspension components, but this seems a bit excessive considering how slight the shimmy is. Are these guys trying to rip me off? Is there any way you could easily tell visually that these need to be replaced?

I assumed at most this was going to be the common thrust arm bushing problem... any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,
-Jeremy

[SC David]

Thrust arm bushings and allignment fixed this shimmy problem for me. They could be trying to rip you off by making you buy parts you don't necessarily need. Get some 750iL bushings put in, have it realligned, and see how it drives. If the problem persists, then maybe they were right all along :)

[ILoveMPower]

I was tempted to just get the bushings... however these guys specialize in BMW's are have been around for 20yrs in my small-ass hometown. I can't imagine they would just make up something like this... but it could be the case.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Done a front-end job, you'd probably spring for replacing as many parts as you could afford and find.

With all the work required to replace just the arms or bushings you could go all the way while its all apart and have it done completely.

[632 Regal]

time to do it yourself, thats probably an average price for taking it in.

[Jjcarr]

Well I arrived home today to a phone call stating the estimate was $1200.
:(
They said I need 2 new control arms, 2 center link arms, and 2 idler arms.

Now I understand BMW's have very sensitive/delicate suspension components, but this seems a bit excessive considering how slight the shimmy is. Are these guys trying to rip me off? Is there any way you could easily tell visually that these need to be replaced?

I assumed at most this was going to be the common thrust arm bushing problem... any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,
-Jeremy

Your shop is taking the classic BMW repair approach of replacing everything around the offending item. Like if you get the brake pads replaced at the dealership they want to replace the disks and everything.

The shop might be right, and I have no doubt that replacing all of those items will fix the problem, but you might get away with replacing just one or two of those items. Also, if you're willing to DIY it, then you can save a TON. I think the parts on all of those items comes out to around $450 (correct me if I'm wrong). I just did the thrust ams on my 525it and it fixed me up right. My total cost was $220 (Lemforder arms w/750 bushings).

You can try to do the thrust arms, see if that fixes it, if not then do more. Or, you can take the approach outlined by other members of "do it right" and replace all of the items your shop quoted.

Either way you'll save a bundle by doing it yourself and the front end suspension parts are pretty easy to do.

James

[DanH]

There is only one center link and one idler arm that I'm aware of in the front end. Maybe you misquoted the parts they said need replacing.

You could buy a whole new set of front end parts and some tools for less than 1200 and do it yourself and be done with it, since once you replace one part, another will go shortly after. Its fractionally more labor to do it all at once, but a lot more to do everything a couple months apart.

Get these parts:
2 thrust arms w/750i bushings
2 control arms
2 tie rod ends
1 center link
1 idler arm
2 stabilizer links

I did it a couple years ago along with new springs and shocks and it was much nicer afterward, and cost less than $1200.

[glocati]

Overall mileage on the vehicle would shed some light as well. If the car has over 125K, it would be reasonable to replace items beyond just the bushings. FYI, replacing just the upper contol arm bushing on my 95 525ia with 100K eliminated a horendous shimmy.

[jjdickm]

I just bought a suspension pack off ebay for around 300$ with 750i bushings and m5 control arms everything. although there are trick to installing everything correctly. you can easily do the control arm bushing at least and there is only one idler arm on my 525i I am having a mechanic help me install all that stuff I will let you know if the problem persists

[Derek A.]

Keep in mind - that a good shop - does not want a customer comback. If you take your car in and pay to have it fixed and 2 weeks later its acting up again you are going to be pissed. So they are going to quote the job to get it done right the first time.

If he is doing a center drag link - its going to need an alignment as well to re set the toe. I assume those costs were figured into the $1200 price.

D.-




Your shop is taking the classic BMW repair approach of replacing everything around the offending item. Like if you get the brake pads replaced at the dealership they want to replace the disks and everything.

The shop might be right, and I have no doubt that replacing all of those items will fix the problem, but you might get away with replacing just one or two of those items. Also, if you're willing to DIY it, then you can save a TON. I think the parts on all of those items comes out to around $450 (correct me if I'm wrong). I just did the thrust ams on my 525it and it fixed me up right. My total cost was $220 (Lemforder arms w/750 bushings).

You can try to do the thrust arms, see if that fixes it, if not then do more. Or, you can take the approach outlined by other members of "do it right" and replace all of the items your shop quoted.

Either way you'll save a bundle by doing it yourself and the front end suspension parts are pretty easy to do.

James

[dacoyote]

I just bought a suspension pack off ebay for around 300$ with 750i bushings and m5 control arms everything. although there are trick to installing everything correctly. you can easily do the control arm bushing at least and there is only one idler arm on my 525i I am having a mechanic help me install all that stuff I will let you know if the problem persists

fcp I would assume???

Get ready to do it again next year...

[ILoveMPower]

Thanks for the help guys. I don't really feel confident doing work like this myself... while I'm sure I'm probably able, I'd rather be dead broke with the work done right.

I'm gonna call them up tomorrow and get an exact part list, because I didn't actually get a chance to talk to them, only a slip of paper with some attempted part names (what I posted above) made by my Mom.

[632 Regal]

he will have some practice by then, probably do it himself.

[genphreak]

Your shop is taking the classic BMW repair approach of replacing everything around the offending item. Like if you get the brake pads replaced at the dealership they want to replace the disks and everything.I don't disagree, but I like the idea that the dealer does it properly and one has that option (as with many other cars one simply doesn't). It is kind of like insurance, if we get into **** and can't fix something you can always pay the dealer for the 'right' amount of time and a reasonable hourly rate and **know** its done (as close as possible) to factory spec. The labour rate sround here is usually not much higher than a good indie charges.

No monkeys, right methods, right parts and no ********. The only problem is the price of the parts, so for less mechanically capable people it's not a bad option if all the other mechanics are happier working on other cars. (Until the parts required become extensive that is, oh yea, and one has to be careful of them marking up ridiculous charges on workshop supplies and so on- ie get a quote first...)

Has anyone ever tried taking OEM parts to the dealer and having them fit them? I would have thought they'd refuse as a matter opf policy to avoid tarnishing their reputation (and protect their profit of course...)

:) Nick

[genphreak]

Thanks for the help guys. I don't really feel confident doing work like this myself... while I'm sure I'm probably able, I'd rather be dead broke with the work done right. I'm gonna call them up tomorrow and get an exact part list, because I didn't actually get a chance to talk to them, only a slip of paper with some attempted part names (what I posted above) made by my Mom.If I were you I'd buy the FCP kit and pay someone (good) the time it takes to do the job- that way all the parts are new, you know they are good. Make sure they can tell you the method they will use to torque the thrust and lower control arms. (search for it here or look it up in the bently) as they must tighten all the nuts+bolts properly, use threadlock and **very particularly** get those arms torqued right.

[Kalevera]

Nick, I'm going to call you out on this.

While there are plenty of ethical and good dealer techs, they're idiots more often than not. The last time Fritz went to the dealer, he came back with three problems he didn't have before he went in. While I've never worked for a dealer, I associate with past and current dealer techs and have had plenty of opportunities to witness occurences that counter the "no monkeys, right methods, right parts and no ********" assertion. The right parts bit is about all that I agree with, and even then it's faulted on occasion (ie selling rebuilt calipers as new, at new cost). You'd be surprised at what goes on.

Just about the last thing I would do with an older car is send it to a dealer. The more senior techs typically don't want to work on old cars, and don't have to. So you get a rookie. That's how my exhaust ended up with a huge dent in the end pipe and how bolts were mismatched and left loose. Turnover in this industry is high, factory training (even going through step) doesn't mean the tech knows anything about models other than the current lineup.

None of this is to say that tomfoolery doesn't happen at independents, or that there aren't ethical dealer techs/service managers. Choose wisely. Maybe I'm biased, but I don't trust the dealer to change oil, let alone swap suspension parts.


Also, to comment more broadly on the thread: we have no idea how this car drives. Maybe it does need all of the parts, maybe it doesn't and these are items that will fail in the near future. Maybe the shop has no idea what it's doing and is making random guesses at what needs to be fixed, or has a more nefarious intent. To make assertions on some repair shop's theory of diagnosis based on a cagey parts list and an estimated cost is ridiculous.

And another thing: a good shop will take the time to explain, or even show, how they diagnosed the source of a problem. Furthermore, in Ohio, it's illegal to throw away old parts before a customer has taken delivery of their car. There shouldn't be any doubt in it -- the front suspension is easy to diagnose on these cars, noises and operating characteristics are relatively easy to visually or audibly replicate with the car in the air.


best, whit

[632 Regal]

with all respects, these are older cars and unless someone works on them regularly I dont think you will have a good job done. This is why this forum is here, education and help on our specific E34 lineup. Even if you dont have faith to do this yourself, with this forum and the people on it (-diamond777) you as a rookie will probably do a better job than you could pay any amount to someone else to do the same.

[E34 530]

(-diamond777)

lol.

[genphreak]

lol.Damn good point from jeff.. and eloquently made as ever!

With that in mind perhaps someone more local on the forum that has done it before would help you do it...

[Jjcarr]

I don't disagree, but I like the idea that the dealer does it properly and one has that option (as with many other cars one simply doesn't). It is kind of like insurance, if we get into **** and can't fix something you can always pay the dealer for the 'right' amount of time and a reasonable hourly rate and **know** its done (as close as possible) to factory spec. The labour rate sround here is usually not much higher than a good indie charges.
:) Nick

I agree, but I figured I'd offer both sides to the guy. Personally I like to replace stuff before it's worn out, and I like the idea that the dealership does that...means I get a better car when I buy it used off the sucker who leased it...:)

Basically he's got some options:
1) Pay $1200 and have it done, end of story
2) Buy all the parts for around $450, DIY, end of story
3) Start replacing the more likely parts DIY a piece at a time until the problem fixes itself (yes, obviously he can evaluate the condition of the parts but I'm trying to keep it simple here), minimum $220, maximum $450.

[Jjcarr]

Thanks for the help guys. I don't really feel confident doing work like this myself... while I'm sure I'm probably able, I'd rather be dead broke with the work done right.

I'm gonna call them up tomorrow and get an exact part list, because I didn't actually get a chance to talk to them, only a slip of paper with some attempted part names (what I posted above) made by my Mom.

BTW: ask them if they are going to upgrade the thrust arm bushings to 750 bushings. Shouldn't cost any extra.

[632 Regal]

I have done it several times, first couple from this boards advice....then I wandered aimlessly and did a trial test along with Lowell and uhhh...somebody (insertname here) else that had bad occurences. I just did the thrusts and control arms which one still needs to be installed but if this BS shimmy is from the thrust arms im gonna throw them through Ebay and FCP's window. I however did replace all the rest with lemforder stuff as I believed it would have been harder than a simple 30 minute ordeal. Anyways it should be done for another half life which would be 90k or so.

[Alexlind123]

From BMAparts:

2 thrust arms w/750i bushings: ~$120
2 control arms: ~$100
2 tie rod ends: ~$30
1 center link: ~$96 (is that the tie rod?)
1 idler arm: ~$32
2 stabilizer links: ~$?

~$400

EDIT: The different names for these things are confusing, i may have some of them wrong.

[Paul in NZ]

go to the indy and look at the cars that are there...The place i go too is full of e 32 e 34,and e 36 as well as e 30 and e 24,s and e 28,s...so they know without a doubt what they are doing when they work on my car.I watched them do my arms from removal pressing in the new bushings and the mid air preloaded retorquing process...

[Jjcarr]

From BMAparts:

2 thrust arms w/750i bushings: ~$120
2 control arms: ~$100
2 tie rod ends: ~$30
1 center link: ~$96 (is that the tie rod?)
1 idler arm: ~$32
2 stabilizer links: ~$?

~$400

EDIT: The different names for these things are confusing, i may have some of them wrong.

I think those numbers are a little off. The Lemforder Thrust arms w/750 bushings from BMA are about $110 each, I just got a set from them.