1989 535i No Crank, w/ Check Control

[borderchris]

Hi all-

Hopefully I can get some ideas. This is an intermittant problem, and usually only after the car has been driven quite a bit, on a warm start attempt. She will go into a no crank condition- no click, nothing; I just sit there listening to the various relays popping and clicking in the car on position 3. After a while, the lovely CHECK CONTROL OWNERS MANUAL will start popping up. I fiddled with the LKM and CCM, to no avail. Once again, no crank at all- the starter is just not getting juice. After 2 hours, I went to Walmart to buy a tow cord, and upon my return, she started just fine. Any ideas? Help!

Chris

1989 535iA

[cschollum]

Hi all-

Hopefully I can get some ideas. This is an intermittant problem, and usually only after the car has been driven quite a bit, on a warm start attempt. She will go into a no crank condition- no click, nothing; I just sit there listening to the various relays popping and clicking in the car on position 3. After a while, the lovely CHECK CONTROL OWNERS MANUAL will start popping up. I fiddled with the LKM and CCM, to no avail. Once again, no crank at all- the starter is just not getting juice. After 2 hours, I went to Walmart to buy a tow cord, and upon my return, she started just fine. Any ideas? Help!

Chris

1989 535iA
yours is an automatic yes?
id check the neutral switch, and that power is getting to the solenoid on the starter, the solenoids are known to stiick when warm, so it could be either of those issues

[borderchris]

OK- sounds like a good idea. Anybody know where the neutral safety switch is, and how much do they cost?

Thanks


Chris

[Javier]

shift lever. First debug operation by testing voltage to ground at pin 11 of diagnostic connector (http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/electrical/e36_reset_service_lights.html).

If you have 12 volts there when turning ignition key to start position, then your Park/Neutral switch, and your starter relay are OK, so check starter connections, and starter it self.

If no 12 Vdc at pin 11, then check starter relay K1 (Right next to fuse F1). It should click in/out when operating transmission shift lever in/out of N or P wile ignition key is in Run position.

If no clicking and exchanging relay does not solve it, then you may start considering to dig in the Range switch and clean it. I'm sure I've seen in the internet a writing about that job, just can not remember where it was.

Javier

[joshua43214]

Fast and dirty method of checking a bad neutral switch. next time it does not crank, keep holding the key over in start position, with your foot on the brake reach over with your left and and push the shifter farther up into park, if it does not start pull it back into neutral and see if it starts there. the neutral switch can get a dead spot at its normal "rest position" and moving it out of that spot will often allow the car to start.

[borderchris]

Thanks for all of the help, fellas. BTW, it always starts when cold, so I'm starting to think it may be the starter solinoid. Any thoughts? Also, the start relay clicks on and off when I move from N to D in position three- I guess that means that the switch and relay are working... Hmmmmm. How hard is it to replace the starter?

Chris

[borderchris]

Yep- dead again, and after 3 hours in an Albertson's parking lot, she cranked right up, and again and again. She only seems to do it after there has been heat soak. Any ideas beyond neutral switch and relays?

Chris

[joshua43214]

Try useing a remote starter when it doesn't start, that will bypass all the relays and such and confirm the starter good or bad. Not unusual for for starters to fail on hot soak. Sometimes you can give them a sharp rap with the end of a broom handle or something and make it wake up, but you run the risk of breaking the magnets inside it.

You can cobble up a remote "switch" if you dont have one. Just put an aligator clip on the end of a 5' length of wire and bare the other end. clip onto starter and press the bare end against the positive lug under the hood.

[Dizzy]

Yep- dead again, and after 3 hours in an Albertson's parking lot, she cranked right up, and again and again. She only seems to do it after there has been heat soak. Any ideas beyond neutral switch and relays?

ChrisOn my 89 535i I was able to start it from the 10mm bottom lug on the solenoid and a 12volt hot. I used the jumper lug. When it acts up see if it has power at the solenoid then relay. My problem was a secondary alarm someone added. Anyway, good luck.:)

[borderchris]

Well, every time it does it, I can hear the relay click in the fuse box if I move the shift selector in and out, so I know that it has power and a signal from the neutral switch. Also, there is power at the solinoid, because I've been able to jump the two nuts with a long screwdriver, but this only results in the WHIRRRRRRRRRRING of the starter motor- it does not engage the teeth. Any more ideas? And of course, a few minutes later, it starts. I'm going nuts!

Chris

[Rustam]

OK- sounds like a good idea. Anybody know where the neutral safety switch is, and how much do they cost?

Thanks


Chris

Netral safety switch is not worth buying unless its cracked into two pieces for some strange reason. You can look for information on how to check and adjust the switch on my website - address is in my profile...

[borderchris]

Thanks for taking the time- I'll check it out.

Chris

[Javier]

debug the solenoid, as it seems to be sticky.

Javier

[pingu]

I've had what seem like similar problems on both a 1991 525 manual and on a 1993 540 automatic. Both cars would start fine when cold but wouldn't warm start after they'd been driven for about 30 minutes to an hour - they simply had to be left to cool down for an hour or so. Infuriating. Bonnet up helped!

On the 525 I had the starter changed which was a waste of £200 as the same fault still occured afterwards.

On the 540 I left the starter alone but eventually managed to track down the problem to what I think was a combination of low battery voltage (11.7V with ignition on, 10.7V with the key in the "start" position) and a bad connection in the ignition switch (when the problem occured, the ignition switch was dropping about 2 volts [10.7V - 2V leaving just 8.7 volts for the starter solenoid] - no wonder the starter solenoid didn't get enough volts to fully engage!).

I no longer have the 552 but on the 540, changing the battery and they ignition switch seems to have banished this problem. If your battery is OK then it might be worth checking just the ignition switch.

Hope this helps!

[cschollum]

heres your answer!
Ok I had this issue on my 525, started ok when cold, not when warm
I replaced the starter and solenoid - Same problem after a ahort time!!
Answer, I checked the voltage at the solenoid, 10v....hmm it seems that by the time the signal gets through the ignition system, call it what you want old wires..bad connections whatever but its only 10v, should be much higher
the solenoid seems to require just a bit extra power to pull in when warm

Ive just read the other poster pingu who had the same issue and he replaced his ignition switch, which ties in with what i found, however my answer was to put a repeater relay near the solenoid which when recieving the normal signal to start the solenoid, instead made a relay connection between the large red +12v cable on the starter to the solenoid - result was that you always had full battery voltage to turn on the solenoid even if the signal from the switch was low.
I find that I always have a healthy start even when the battery is quite low, which I never had before
Let me know if you require more clarification on this relay repeater

[borderchris]

Well, I'm not too sure what you mean, but any ideas are welcome. What relay, and where would I splice it in? Thanks


Chris

[Javier]

It is the voltage feed to the starter. If it is low you'll know. If you have 12 Vdc or up, and keep over 10 wile starting, you have no voltage issues from the battery, relay contact, or ignition switch.

Javier