Can we go yellow with M60 engine?

[Alpinewhite]

Hi All,

How about using Ethanol fuels in M60 engines? Especially the Nikasil ones. What percentage of ethanol do you guys think will work? What kind of mods have to be done?

Thanks
Arun

[winfred]

technically all you need to run it is compatable rubber fuel lines, i am beleaving more and more the nic motor problems were blown out of proportion due to the test procedure using the modic, i think if the motor hasn't shown the leak down problem by now it's not going to happen, my thoughts on what really happened are, there was a bad batch of blocks which set up the mind set that if it runs bad it is bad, bmw came up with up with the quicky procedure that looks at individual cylinder combustion quality to gauge leak down and if a couple holes are down the computer tells the tech to tear down and inspect, the shop manager is unlikely to tie up a bay and mechanic for a couple days on something that the customer is not going to want to hear if the motor is good (uhhhh we pulled the heads on your motor and found out that it was fine, that will be $3500) espcially if he can just warranty the short block and get paid by bmw for a gravy job. i think the problems that came after the bad blocks ran out were a combonation of bad cats, blown pcv plate and intake leaks, i had one " bad nic motor" car come in that just needed a fuel pump, it was not supplying enough pressure and pissed off the computer which over compensated and made the engine run bad like the "nic problem" reset the computer and it would idle fine

[onewhippedpuppy]

Glad to see an authority on the topic speak his mind. I read an piece by an engine rebuild/exchange place, he said very few of the Nikasil problem engines he got as cores were really Nikasil related problems. People need to hear that if your M60 has a rough idle, Nikasil isn't the only possible reason.

[Bill R.]

specifies that a leak down test be done if the car fails the idle quality test. The quality test was done to keep the dealer from having to go to all the trouble of a leakdown test on every car that people complained about a rough idle
So the dealer was required to do the idle quality test, if the car failed that test then a leakdown test was required. Only if it failed the leakdown was the block authorized to be changed.

Imagine for a moment the costs for bmw to originally diagnose this problem in the beginning, try various fixes such as the reprogramming of the
dme, raising the operating temp, thermostats, fuel curves etc.

Then the costs incurred to design and cast a new block out of alusil and piston and ring designs to go with it. Then since these were provided as a complete shortblock only the expenditure in cranks,rods,block,pistons ,rings etc, And not to mention that on the m62 and other newer blocks they still have to cast a special block for the US, GB, South Africa, South America, Mexico, If anything i'm fairly certain the the problem was understated rather than over.




technically all you need to run it is compatable rubber fuel lines, i am beleaving more and more the nic motor problems were blown out of proportion due to the test procedure using the modic, i think if the motor hasn't shown the leak down problem by now it's not going to happen, my thoughts on what really happened are, there was a bad batch of blocks which set up the mind set that if it runs bad it is bad, bmw came up with up with the quicky procedure that looks at individual cylinder combustion quality to gauge leak down and if a couple holes are down the computer tells the tech to tear down and inspect, the shop manager is unlikely to tie up a bay and mechanic for a couple days on something that the customer is not going to want to hear if the motor is good (uhhhh we pulled the heads on your motor and found out that it was fine, that will be $3500) espcially if he can just warranty the short block and get paid by bmw for a gravy job. i think the problems that came after the bad blocks ran out were a combonation of bad cats, blown pcv plate and intake leaks, i had one " bad nic motor" car come in that just needed a fuel pump, it was not supplying enough pressure and pissed off the computer which over compensated and made the engine run bad like the "nic problem" reset the computer and it would idle fine

[winfred]

the last dealer diagnosed bad nic i got ran fine after a computer reset so i leak down tested it and it was fine, so i had the manager find me the dealer procedure for testing a bad nic and i saw nothing involving a leak down tester, i threw away the paperwork a while back or id scan it, whatever they were supposed to do at the dealer level i don't think a lot of them were bothering with, as of yet i have never seen a bad nic


specifies that a leak down test be done if the car fails the idle quality test. The quality test was done to keep the dealer from having to go to all the trouble of a leakdown test on every car that people complained about a rough idle
So the dealer was required to do the idle quality test, if the car failed that test then a leakdown test was required. Only if it failed the leakdown was the block authorized to be changed.

Imagine for a moment the costs for bmw to originally diagnose this problem in the beginning, try various fixes such as the reprogramming of the
dme, raising the operating temp, thermostats, fuel curves etc.

Then the costs incurred to design and cast a new block out of alusil and piston and ring designs to go with it. Then since these were provided as a complete shortblock only the expenditure in cranks,rods,block,pistons ,rings etc, And not to mention that on the m62 and other newer blocks they still have to cast a special block for the US, GB, South Africa, South America, Mexico, If anything i'm fairly certain the the problem was understated rather than over.

[Bill R.]

pressure distribution test. If it failed both of these tests then a leakdown test was not done. The cylinder pressure distribution test was basically the same test that the sunnen scopes do for cylinder balance where it shorts out 2 cylinders at a time and measures the rpm drop on each to determine if one cylinder is really weak.
If the results from these two tests were inconclusive then a leakdown test was required. All of them that i have seen here had a leakdown done. and a number of people paid for the leakdown themselves if the dealer claimed that the car passed the idle tests. Here are the 2 bmw documents that cover it. And the second one is the one with the leakdown test procedure and results First one here (http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images2/m60%20engine%20test1.pdf)
Second one here
(http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images2/m60%20engine%20test%202.pdf)



the last dealer diagnosed bad nic i got ran fine after a computer reset so i leak down tested it and it was fine, so i had the manager find me the dealer procedure for testing a bad nic and i saw nothing involving a leak down tester, i threw away the paperwork a while back or id scan it, whatever they were supposed to do at the dealer level i don't think a lot of them were bothering with, as of yet i have never seen a bad nic

[Johntee540]

I just spoke to BMWNA on the newer fuels coming out (10% Ethanol - NOT - flexfuel 15% Ethanol) and their official answer is that "up to 10% Ethanol Fuels are okay" to run. - JT

[Alpinewhite]

Hi John,

Did they tell, what is the problem with more Ethanol?

Thanks
Arun

[BillionPa]

fuel system and cylinder wall corrosion? horrible gas mileage?