I give up, what the frck is going on!?

[Rob]

Okay as Jeff and others know, I have or what seemed to be have had a cooling problem with my E34.

So this morning I really need to use the car. As if I don't, I loose my job as I would have not be able to get there as my Dad usally takes me. So no choice but to bite the bulit and take the E34 out. Sure okay....here we go..

So I open up the radiator cap, and put more water and coolant in the car. And I leave for work.

The car take a while to warm up, normal. Then get's to half way temp. Still normal. So then I start to hit heavy traffic. Last time I was in heavy traffic in this car, she went into the red and I had to turn off. That was when the overheating first started. So anyway, I look down at the temp gauge and see it's a needel past half way. Ok, what gives? usally she would be next to the red now. So I carry on in this heavy traffic for like 5 minutes.

After this the needel is a little more past half way 3/4th of the way. I'm in the middle of traffic here, and no where to go. I cannot switch the engine off...so I sit...and sit in traffic. Needel stary where it is...

Then I get the the works car parking. Drive half way round as I want to park on the roof...no, some idiot has just blocked that way for the day. So I go past the fuel station and drive round I watch the needel still, it starts going back to half way point. What the ****? Normally at this speed (40 Km/s) she would be very hot. I know this as that's what happened last time when the cooling problem first started.

So there I am, stilling at the round-abount waiting to turn left, needel is now sitting half way again. Okay what the **** is going on here I think??

So then I turn left and make my way to the roof of the building. Park the car and now I'm in the parking bay, rol windows and roof up. And let the car idle, while needel in still half way. Now last time I idled this car when the heating problem first started, at a robot, she got very hot, needel next to red mark in like 20 seconds. So I keep this car idled for atleast a minute....needel still half way. I'm now running late for work, so I give up turn off the car and go into work.

Seems now this has really confused me, big time!

Anyone want to shed some light here for me. What has happened??

[Paul in NZ]

how much water/coolant did you add?.

[Rob]

Just so it was past the COOL/KLAT mark on the tank. As it was a little low.

[Morgenster]

Cooling fan clutch?

[Rob]

What do you mean, bro?

[ILoveMPower]

Cooling fan clutch?

The fan clutch might be going, therefore it's not properly engaging/disengaging the fan to cool your engine.

You can test this by using something to try and stop the rotation of the fan when it's spinning... if it stops quite easily, it's pretty obvious you should change the fan clutch.

Hope this is the problem, and hope this helps :)

-jeremy

[Rob]

Hmm. Okay. I have susspected it was the fan clutch. That's making much more sense now.
Going to drive the car home from work this afternoon and will test it when I arrive home and report back to you guys tomorrow.

Thanks guys

[Mendozart]

It sounds like a bleeding problem. It may have bled itself now that it's working right.

[Rob]

Hi,

Well I'm going to drive her home in three hours time. I think it may be the clutch that is going. As I had a big problem with power on the car. It had no power. And had the overheating problem. few weeks later I replaced the fuel pump and power was back. But the overheating problem seemed to have sorted it self out. So one week of driving, and she started the whole overheat badly. So since my aux fan switch was dead I jumpered the conecter and kept the fan working when ever engine was on to see if that was the problem. As I said I had to use the car this morning, and cooling has seemed to correct it self again.

Might be clutch. I hope not as I have no idea where the hell I am going to find a new one here! :(:(

[azale]

It sounds like you are learning a lot about how a car's cooling system works. Good for you. I just hope we are moving in the right direction here (and I'm a little concerned about the rest of the car.)

The cooling system in a car is similar to the cooling system in your body. An engine (or your body) is going to generate a little heat, and the radiator (or your sweat) dissipates that heat into the air.

The main fan (between the engine and the radiator) 'turns on' (clutch engages) when the engine is hot but it spins with the engine all the time, just not as fast as the engine until the clutch engages. The auxillary fan is in the front of the radiator and turns on when the A/C is on (the A/C produces even more heat).

I jumpered the conecter and kept the fan working when ever engine was on to see if that was the problem. As I said I had to use the car this morning, and cooling has seemed to correct it self again.
Do you still have it jumpered? Is it running all the time?

Apparently a lot of people think the fan clutch os your problem, probably because they have had to change them before. Read the replies again for how to test that fan clutch with a rolled up newspaper.

But there are a whole load of problems that you could have, you just have to start from the top and narrow it down.

1. If you have no fluid you are screwed because the water transfers the heat . . . but you said you checked the fluid level.
2. The water has to *move* otherwise hot water will stay in the engine . . . you can test this by holding the big hose that goes into the top of your radiator when the car is hot. You should be able to feel water flowing. Or you might be able the open the cap on your radiator to watch the water move in there. If water isn't moving, you could have a bunch of problems: pump broken (you would probably hear pump noise or see a leak at the front of the pump (between the fan and your engine), clogged radiator (you would test this by removing the bottom hose on your radiator and letting water flow through it; this would also tell you how dirty your radiator is), broken thermostat (in cold climates you don't want the water to flow all the time so a thermostat is installed to keep the engine a little warm. It is a valve which opens when the engine is warm; I think most are designed to open fully when they fail but sometimes they get stuck closed. This is usually on the top of the engine in the hose where the top hose touches the engine.)

Most importantly *do what these guys tell you to do.* They know what they are talking about but you have to be trying this stuff on your car . . . and it looks liek you keep asking questions and aren't going back to your car to implement the solutions.

You have been given a bunch of suggestions but now you have to test them all out. I suggest reading back through the last 3 threads you started about this and make sure you followed everyone's advice. If you don't know how to do it, ask questions about specific tests . . . and take some pictures

If water is moving, the radiator is clean inside and out, and the fans are working, you have a more serious problem. Have you been taking car of your e34?

[Rob]

Hi aZale,

Thanks for that post. I do try take as much care about my E34 as I can and as money allows me to. I'm sorry I keep posting. This post wasn't really to give answers to the cooling problem, more of to what happened this morning. Anyway. I can definitely tell you that the water is flowing though to the raditator. Did the test you just mentioned. The thermostat is working. Again tested it. Only thing I have not tested is the fan clutch and I don't know if the system is bled proberly. I will be bleeding it this weeked though. I can tell you that the head gasket is still in tacked as I have just gone out now to check if there is oil in the coolant or if i can see any leaks or if the car is smoking. It's not smoking. No oil in coolant and no leaks as I can see. So H.G is fine. Someone told me to check that anyway.

You see I'm bassically trying to get all the possible problems it can be, then test them all out on the weekend when I can. Look, I really apericate ALL the help I have recieved here. If you guys knew how much I talk about my car to my family members and to my G.F you'll know just how much I love it and really want her to get back on her feet 100%.

You're right, I am learning about the cooling system now. It's the same or similer used in watercooling PCs. You have a block which attaches on to the CPU. Pipes to push the water though to the rad's expansion pack and though the rad it self. cooling fans to cool the water using air. and back though to the cpu. The car's cooling system is much like this.

I have disconnected the aux fan now as well. As I don't see why I need it on all the time anyhow.

I go home in 30 mins. When I get home I will use a rolled up news paper. and test as soon as I can. I really am starting to think it's the fan clutch now. Because if she wasn't bled proberly, she would over heat while driving or stopping, when ever. But if it's the fan clutch, i'm ****ed. As I don't think I will be able to get one easy this side! :(:(

Thank you for your input. And time.

Enjoy the rest of the day.

Robert.

P.S Why are you worried about the rest of my car? everything else is okay with it.)

[azale]

P.S Why are you worried about the rest of my car?
Because I wouldn't be surprised to hear, after a long exchange like this, the following:
"Hey guys I figured out my problem, my oil is so black and old that it stopped lubricating the engine and therefore the engine was getting too hot," or "my friend just told me he was trying to grow Beluga Caviar in my cooling system and I think a Sturgeon got stuck in my water jacket."

[joshua43214]

well, I still have my money onthe fan clutch. Keep this in mind, the car heats up, the aux fan comes on and stays on until the car cools down to normal temp. Sound familiar?

When you tested the fan switch the other day, was the switch itself hot? maybe you had an air pocket hovering over the switch that finaly bled out.

[Ross]

Has anyone yet suggested the water pump? Some have a plastic impeller that fails,sometimes disintegrating I'm told. Just had one fail myself but it stayed in one piece,a radial crack alowed it to slip on the shaft. Sometimes it turned and sometimes it didn't. If you are going to the trouble of changing the fan cutch put on a pump while you are there it's cheap and easy.

[632 Regal]

Leave the aux fan on until you get a new clutch, dont need to bust the head or gasket cause of it!

Where you at that you cant get a fan? Damn man I'll send you a clutch if its that big of a deal. Hope you make it home with no probs.

[BillionPa]

as i read page 1 i started thinking of the impeller.

if you have a plastic one, CHANGE IT BECAUSE IT WILL BREAK!

i like regals new sig...

[fkong777]

if the car is moving and the temp is normal.. AND if the car is near stationary then the temp goes up..

= Fan clutch.

[Paul in NZ]

Rob are BMW parts really that hard to Get?Or do you not know where to get them.?
ps i did a search for BMW car clubs in your area,however i could only fond a motorcycle club....never know he may be able to hook you up with someone inn the know.It seems strange that a country with BMW manufacturing history has no actual BMWCC.Is there a dealer in Durban?

Durban BMW Motorcycle Club (South Africa) Motorcycles Stephen Smith
E-mail: sksmith@netsolutions.co.za

another site
Website: http://www.bmw.co.za/Fascination/ClubsAfrica

[Rob]

aZale: That was a little uncalled for, don't you think? For your infomation, I changed my oil and oil filter two weeks ago.

Josh: No, the switch was, is just dead. So I jumpered the aux fan to test the fan it self out, fan spins up perfectly. Left it on to get me home.

Ross: I will look at the pump when I can. I will be bleeding the car tomorrow and have it up on ramps so I can see if I'm missing anything.

Hi Jeff: I'm in Durban, South Africa. Believe me, that fan clutch doesn't exsist here. Unless I go and take it off some other guys E34. Which I won't do. So it leaves me with a part that I just cannot get here. There is a BMW dealer here. They want R6,000 for the fan clutch. I just cannot afford that on a small part. They also want R1696 for one fog light. And about R600 bucks for the metal trim for the passengers door. So you see their prieces are far too expensive for the parts. So going to them isn't an option for me. :(

I did make it home, just the engine took about 6 - 10ks of driving just to get warm. Usally she gets warm pretty quick.

Jeff, I'm going to test the clutch when I get home today. I have left the car at home now and I'm not driving it until I get this heating issue fixed. I can't risk blowing the head gasket, last thing I need right now. On tomorrow I will drain all coolant and bleed the car. I just hope it's a case of bleeding and not the clutch that's gone. Like I say, if it's the clutch, I'm screwed, big time! :(

I would be very greatfull if you could send me a clutch. However I don't expect you to do that for me. I will make a plan here I'm sure. If I can't then it's another E34 down in this world. :(

Paul: Yes, BMW parts, for this model is very hard to get. Unless you want to sell your house and go directly to BMW South Africa who want your right nut for a rubber seal. Even the damn junkyards don't have the parts I need for this car.
Thanks for the links, I will definitely go to them and see what I can find. Appericeated.

Thanks, Jeff, Paul and others who are giving me more help then I probably deserve. It's guys like you who make this forum so great!

[TheEndIsNear]

R6,000 what is that about $200USD?

[Rob]

No. It's about $960.

[TheEndIsNear]

DAMN.... That's just screwed up... What about ordering it online or something like that...

[TheEndIsNear]

I can get it here for $100USD new(aftermarket). I wonder how hard or costly it would be to buy it here and ship it to you?

[Rob]

It wouldn't be hard to ship it here. Costly? Well I'm not 100% sure on that?

Can't order it only as I don't have a credit card. :(

[Morgenster]

Hi,

sorry about the very short question on page 1.
But I was referring to the fan clutch going out since your symptoms point in that direction.
960 dollars for a fan clutch seems insane considering I bought my E34 with new radiator, silentblocs, exhaust, LPG installation, brake pads and discs for 2500 euro (about 3000 dollar). I admit, it has 260000Km on it, but still.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a gun and kill the dealer for the parts? It kind of reminds of this ethical question about the man who couldn't afford the right medicine for his wife who was dying.:D

[Rob]

Lol, thanks, Monrgenster. Yes. It would be a lot cheaper going into the steelership with a gun demanding parts. And killing for them if I have to. But I don't want to see jail bars for the rest of my life so that's no option either, lol. :):(

[Rob]

Just phoned another place. Sounds a lot more reasonable. They want R895 ($138.53USD) for the fan clutch. So that's what I'm going to get if that's the problem. I have my rolled up news paper. Doing test when I get home today. Wish me luck guys!

Are there any other tests I can do to test the fan clutch. The news paper test doesn't sound 100% reliable.

[emw525E34]

Rob, cooling expert on M20 engine here.

If your cooling system was flushed before or if it had extremely low levels, then you have less than the amount of coolant in the system than you think. Don't think because the raditor cap shows there is coolant, that you have enough in there. Its simply NOT True.

Here is the proper way of filling coolant. You need to REMOVE the top host INLET hose. Remove the clamp and pull the hose off. This is where you actually fill into the system. Used a funnel, pour 50:50 mix into that inlet until it is full. Its fine if you spill some. Bleed the system. Bleeder screw is near that inlet. The radiator plastic screw bleeder is not much use. bleed that as well for good measure.
Now you have about 80% of coolant in the system. Why ?. You will find out the next day, cos a litre or more will need to be filled again.

Next day, pop open the radiator cap and you will see that the expansion tank is either almost empty or maybe 1/2 to 3/4 empty. Then you ask "where did the coolant go ?." Some crevices are being filled with the engine cools as it will suck the coolant and fill those places. Just top-up the expansion tank and you are done!.

I am very surprised that some INDY shops did not know this. I had an overheat situation years ago. This method never failed me for several years and that M20 still runs well and never overheat since.

Note: Another tip, if for some reason you lost some coolant during the day and got stuck in traffic. You see the needle going towards 3/4 mark. Switch off aircond, roll all windows down and switch on high HEAT (3 or 4 on the blower speed). Direct the vents away from you , of course as it will get steamy hot!. This will bring the TEMP down. You still have a moving and functioning car rather than being stuck by the road-side. About 3 years ago, I did this for 4 hours (the jam was 4 hours long!), got me home without much delay, once you got going (60kph and above, you can switch back the ac and drive normally).

[joshua43214]

I use a method very similar to EMW's method for filling colling systems. Basicaly just pull the radiator hoses and fill the engine and the radiator through the hoses, top up, bleed and run and bleed. Test drive the vehicle, bleed, and slightly over fill the tank. Done, no hassle and fool proof.

If you are really desparate for parts, you could always try the Detroit method of obtaining new parts. Find the same car that is well maintained, remove the part you want when no is looking. wait a few days and return and remove the new part the owner kindly installed for you. this method is both cheaper and produces less jail time than demanding free parts from the dealer. Use this method at yourown risk=).

[Paul in NZ]

be nice and bring the old part back the second time!

[TheEndIsNear]

Well, I hope you figure it out. Cooling problems are not cool.

[Rob]

Hi,

Ya, I figured it out. A leaky pipe under the top rad hose was or still is causing the problem. Need to fix it this Sunday. :)

Thanks hey. :)

[TheEndIsNear]

Right on, now, how did you track that one down?

[genphreak]

Hi, Ya, I figured it out. A leaky pipe under the top rad hose was or still is causing the problem. Need to fix it this Sunday. :) Thanks hey. :)3 threads and 80 posts and it's still **not** fixed? (How come I said that be4 Jeff did? He must still be flt out chasing shimmies...)

[Rob]

Well, after I drain and refilled the cooling system I saw water under the car. By the sump. So I thought the water pump was stuffed. Took top rad off, saw the source of leak and it's on the end of the pipe. I have already fixed this pipe once. Last week. Done it again. :(

genphreak: Sorry dude.