Problems pressing in rear subframe mounts - any suggestions?

[John 535is (Sydney)]

I got my new Lemforder rear subframe mounts from Patrick at BMA. I had to cut the old ones out. I removed the centre bolt, and cleaned up the subframe housing using a wire brush on a drill. All looks clean. I am trying to press the new ones in using a jack, a peice of timber and water as the lubricant without any joy. I now have the mount halfway in, and it wont go any futher (and now I can't get it out either!)

Once I get it out, any suggestions on lubricating or trimming the mount?

Thanks

John - 535is Sydney

[Bellicose Right Winger]

Try liquid dish washing detergent.

Paul Shovestul



I got my new Lemforder rear subframe mounts from Patrick at BMA. I had to cut the old ones out. I removed the centre bolt, and cleaned up the subframe housing using a wire brush on a drill. All looks clean. I am trying to press the new ones in using a jack, a peice of timber and water as the lubricant without any joy. I now have the mount halfway in, and it wont go any futher (and now I can't get it out either!)

Once I get it out, any suggestions on lubricating or trimming the mount?

Thanks

John - 535is Sydney

[632 Regal]

what an ugly spot you are in...hope you can wiggle that sucker back out!

[Bill R.]

amount diluted with a large amount water. Some people who have use straight liguid detergent have had problems with the bushing not staying in place. Bmw only recomends circolight, a rubber lubricant that is competely absorbed into the rubber a few minutes after its pressed in... P80 listed here is the same thing as circolight. (http://www.ipcol.com/prod-p80.htm)

These are both rubber lubricants designed to absorb completely into the rubber that the bushing stays in place once its pressed . Using other lubricants that stay on the surface can cause problems with the bushing moving. You'll have to look around and see what rubbler lubricants are available to you.




Try liquid dish washing detergent.

Paul Shovestul

[John 535is (Sydney)]

But i will take your advice, at least it will take my mind off the car for a while.

John

[BigKriss]

It doesn't sound very good John. I recall Shogun saying that he / or other people put them in hot water to get the rubber softer when installing. I assume your car is on the ground. hmmm sorry to hear about your problems.

[rob101]

i am not sure if this is suitable, but you might try heating up the housing a bit. standard thing might not be suitable because of the rubber bushing. its just an idea

[Rustam]

I got my new Lemforder rear subframe mounts from Patrick at BMA. I had to cut the old ones out. I removed the centre bolt, and cleaned up the subframe housing using a wire brush on a drill. All looks clean. I am trying to press the new ones in using a jack, a peice of timber and water as the lubricant without any joy. I now have the mount halfway in, and it wont go any futher (and now I can't get it out either!)

Once I get it out, any suggestions on lubricating or trimming the mount?

Thanks

John - 535is Sydney

Maybe this can help with the next bushing: Hold in the freezer overnight for shrinkage?

[Jeff N.]

Bill's correct!

...the bushing will slip back out under load. Trust me. Been there, done that. See bwme34.net on rear subframe bushing section if you don't believe me.

Re getting the sucker pressed in - it's a helluva press. We used the factory tool and it was moaning the whole way. Be careful not to mushroom the top of your bushing too - that will just make things worse.

Good luck...

Jeff




amount diluted with a large amount water. Some people who have use straight liguid detergent have had problems with the bushing not staying in place. Bmw only recomends circolight, a rubber lubricant that is competely absorbed into the rubber a few minutes after its pressed in... P80 listed here is the same thing as circolight. (http://www.ipcol.com/prod-p80.htm)

These are both rubber lubricants designed to absorb completely into the rubber that the bushing stays in place once its pressed . Using other lubricants that stay on the surface can cause problems with the bushing moving. You'll have to look around and see what rubbler lubricants are available to you.

[Paul in NZ]

just to take your mind off your present problems,did you get your obc problems sorted?
I have my fingers crosed you can get the is back on the road soon!

[genphreak]

Dude, freezing the mounts shrinks them down; this should be the trick you need. Heat the subframe itself with a portable butane blowtorch, just before installing. A search of the forum will find this procedure, it really sounded the business to me, the guy that did it popped them out with special (round, slightly smaller diameter than the bushing) wooden blocks using the wieght of the car to push it out against the floorpan. Then froze the new bushings overnight and heated the mounting frame on each side before doing this. Do this right and all should be well. The very best of the very best of luck there... :) Nick

[John 535is (Sydney)]

At least I got the new one that was stuck halfway back out with the wooden blocks.
I have the entire weight of rear of the car sitting on the wooden blocks I made up on top of the original mount and it still won't budge. At least with it stressed I can see the mount is actually broken so this project is not a waste of time.
I will explore some rubber grease and freezing the new mounts before attempting to put the new ones in, its just way too tight.
Not happy to use the heat torch method if possible, the fuel lines run right past the mount which kinda worries me a bit.

John

[genphreak]

At least I got the new one that was stuck halfway back out with the wooden blocks.
I have the entire weight of rear of the car sitting on the wooden blocks I made up on top of the original mount and it still won't budge. At least with it stressed I can see the mount is actually broken so this project is not a waste of time.
I will explore some rubber grease and freezing the new mounts before attempting to put the new ones in, its just way too tight.
Not happy to use the heat torch method if possible, the fuel lines run right past the mount which kinda worries me a bit.

John Good point. Forgot about those suckers, there are brake lines too I think, but none of them will explode unless they get real hot. Beware the plastic clips too!

Perhaps shield them using some alfoil over a piece of gyprock or the like. Make sure the shiny side faces the heat on both sides, ie stick the foil to it on both sides first. If possible use a 2nd piece of gyprock or timber panel on the back side.

lines

3mm timber
al foil
8mm gyprock
al foil

heat

That'd make a damn good insulator. You don't need to heat the metal a great deal.

Asbestos is kinda cool as an insulator if you can find some that isn't too flakey... 'cough, cough wheeeeez'... best not to try this tho, at least- not at home!

[BigKriss]

I'm very intersted in how you go with this John. I have a subframe bush puller coming in about 10 days borrowed from "Hector" on here. Did you get bruno's subframe plates John?

[John 535is (Sydney)]

Let me know when the puller turns up. If the car is still on blocks I may need your help.
I got the plates from Bruno, but when I pulled the drivers side mount apart I could see the rubber mount was actually broken, so I got Patrick from BMA to send new mounts as well, plus dogbones, sway bar mounts etc.

I also scored some new Zender springs so I may take the opportunity to pull the shocks out and replace the HIOP lowered springs with new Zender lowered. Also thinking of sending the Bilstiens in for a check. i really didn't want this to be a big project, but its kinda expanding.

John

[genphreak]

Let me know when the puller turns up. If the car is still on blocks I may need your help. I got the plates from Bruno, but when I pulled the drivers side mount apart I could see the rubber mount was actually broken, so I got Patrick from BMA to send new mounts as well, plus dogbones, sway bar mounts etc. I also scored some new Zender springs so I may take the opportunity to pull the shocks out and replace the HIOP lowered springs with new Zender lowered. Also thinking of sending the Bilstiens in for a check. i really didn't want this to be a big project, but its kinda expanding. JohnWhat are HIOPs? Billies are usually fine unless they are obviously failing: I had the same discussion with the guys at Heasman's about the ones Kriss and I installed recently.

[BigKriss]

yeah - it should be here in about 10 days. The rubber lubricant looks like the trick for the bushes. Rear springs are easy, as nick mentioned we removed them on his car a while ago.

[John 535is (Sydney)]

What are HIOPs? Billies are usually fine unless they are obviously failing: I had the same discussion with the guys at Heasman's about the ones Kriss and I installed recently.

I hadn't heard of them before I got the car, so i looked it up on the web. What are Heasemans like to deal with ?

[632 Regal]

I read you can cut the bushing with a sawsall to get it out easy, just dont cut too far :D
At least I got the new one that was stuck halfway back out with the wooden blocks.
I have the entire weight of rear of the car sitting on the wooden blocks I made up on top of the original mount and it still won't budge. At least with it stressed I can see the mount is actually broken so this project is not a waste of time.
I will explore some rubber grease and freezing the new mounts before attempting to put the new ones in, its just way too tight.
Not happy to use the heat torch method if possible, the fuel lines run right past the mount which kinda worries me a bit.

John

[genphreak]

I hadn't heard of them before I got the car, so i looked it up on the web. What are Heasemans like to deal with ?I see, like these ones. (http://www.d2technik.com/sushiop.htm) I wish some of these suspension manufacturers would market their products on the web properly. They are basically saying "we're too lazy to market or engage with potential consumers. We're so great we're just gonna sell our **** thru existing shops and specialists". (Rant over, apologies.)
[/URL]
John, [URL="http://www.heasmans.com.au/"]Heasmans (http://www.heasmans.com.au/) are an excellent suspension shop. Highly experienced staff, run by Peter. They are quite reaonsable, but not cheap- as with anywhere get a quote always. Rates are somehting like $80/hour. They know BMs well and work on a lot of exotics, notably things like a heavly modified AWD Jensen Interceptor II running a supercharged 454 big block which I saw when last there. (Its a Targa rally car). Bilstein distributor is in the same building there at Tempe. May even be affiliated somehow, not sure. The distributor will look after your shocks if you drop them in, but it's handy if you'd prefer to pay someone to remove and replace them as the workshop is next door (and is highly reliable). I don't reccommend many, but do reccommend them.

A mate of mine used to rebuild shocks for them in their workshop and also at race meets- that might also be a good place to do get it done ;) you sure can't miss their mobile workshop at the tracks. It goes to the formula car race meets I think, perhaps others where they adjust shocks all day long for the competitors. :) Nick

[MBXB]

Just happen to have that link:

http://www.tycksen.com/bmw/tech/subframe/index.php?session=nudY24bh04RndJKvYmZGw3itv2




I read you can cut the bushing with a sawsall to get it out easy, just dont cut too far :D

[632 Regal]

looks easy!

[John 535is (Sydney)]

I used the cut out method to get the original stuffed mount out. The problem was trying to press the new one with water as a lubricant as everyone suggested got stuck half in, half out. I didn't want to then cut out a new mount that Patrick had sent from US to Sydney. Eventually I used the wooden blocks, lowered the car to use the weight as a press and then an engineers hammer to add some vibration.

Now I'm in search of a rubber lubricant. BMW Aust couldn't suggest anything here that would work.

[genphreak]

Perhaps Lanolin? You want the right stuff tho. Door rubbers come covered in talc I think- what is it made from? And what is that P-80 (http://www.europeancarweb.com/auto_tools/0307ec_tool/) stuff made from?

[rob101]

I used the cut out method to get the original stuffed mount out. The problem was trying to press the new one with water as a lubricant as everyone suggested got stuck half in, half out. I didn't want to then cut out a new mount that Patrick had sent from US to Sydney. Eventually I used the wooden blocks, lowered the car to use the weight as a press and then an engineers hammer to add some vibration.

Now I'm in search of a rubber lubricant. BMW Aust couldn't suggest anything here that would work.
PBR makes rubber grease, you can use it in brakes etc. it is rubber and plastic friendly
got a couple of tubes to fix the brakes on the e28.
is that what you're looking for?

[Paul in NZ]

bma or one of our freinds stateside might have to send you some of that stuff that bill r said.

[Paul in NZ]

the key (no pun intended) is the grease has to disapear again

[rob101]

the key (no pun intended) is the grease has to disapear again
ah yes i remember that stuff
Don't buy the PBR stuff then!

[Bill R.]

what bmw uses. Its the 3rd or so item down on this link (http://www.sunoco.be/uk/processoils.html)




I used the cut out method to get the original stuffed mount out. The problem was trying to press the new one with water as a lubricant as everyone suggested got stuck half in, half out. I didn't want to then cut out a new mount that Patrick had sent from US to Sydney. Eventually I used the wooden blocks, lowered the car to use the weight as a press and then an engineers hammer to add some vibration.

Now I'm in search of a rubber lubricant. BMW Aust couldn't suggest anything here that would work.

[BigKriss]

thankyou Bill. Greatly appreciated.


what bmw uses. Its the 3rd or so item down on this link (http://www.sunoco.be/uk/processoils.html)