Getting out of the buisiness... [Archive]

kyleN20

05-21-2006, 10:09 AM

i started my own lawn service, and im 19, got a truck, 2 commerical mowers, and a shitload of other commerical equipment. im not taking full advantage of the money that can be made because i have another job still, but i can tell, the potential for money is HUGE, espshilly in Detroit. im in the suburbs and i can get business like that, but when i go down to the D there is no shortage of people wanting there lawns cut (i work for a lawn crew the runs bank houses downtown) its a very open market, people are always gunna want their lawn cut. a word of advice, start small. most people take out loans, and but big truck and trailers and brand new mowers, and are out of business due to high overhead.

Gayle

05-21-2006, 10:13 AM

Over the years, I have observed that most people do not like their jobs and find them stressful. Call me idealistic, but I can't subscribe to the philosophy espoused in Derek's post. I don't want to spend 50% of my waking life being tortured. While I have had interesting work that has paid moderately well, I have always valued quality of life over money. When a job starts to go south, I immediately start looking for the next thing. I applaud you for doing the same thing.

You don't give us much information in your post that would allow us to make meaningful suggestions, like where you live, what kind of skills or education you have, whether you have a family to support, whether you can afford to go to school, etc.

There are tests (vocational interest tests) that tell you what kind of work you would be happy with. They don't tell you if you have the ability to do the job, but just what you would enjoy based on your interests. Very often colleges or junior colleges have counseling departments that administer these tests. Sometimes you have to enroll in junior college and enroll in a 1 hour course to be able to utilize the counseling department, but it is so helpful in figuring out what you would enjoy doing. The results of the interest test will give you several option and you can figure out what you have to do to get the skills for the job.

It is much easier to do what it takes to get on the right path when you are young than later when you have lots of responsibilities are are locked in.

ThoreauHD

05-21-2006, 10:52 AM

BlueM, find a independent BMW shop. The atmosphere can be 90 degrees different from shop to shop. When you work for an independent shop, you get paid for what you do. And usually there is no warranty work. If it was warranty, they would go to a dealer. That's my suggestion. Contact the bmw cca rep for your area and ask him what the coolest shop is in a 40 mile radius.

joshua43214

05-21-2006, 11:20 AM

Unfortunately 1year as a tech is barely enough to get your feet wet in this business. I would also recomend an aftermarket shop so you can get some more experience wrenching. It takes many years to learn all the tricks to make fixing cars easy money, and the dealer is not the best place to learn them since the cars are too new and older techs seem to gravitate to the aftermarket. I went to a dealer only because my body was starting to give out and I wanted to stop doing so much heavy work. With my many years in the aftermarket, I wound up being one of the more knowledgable techs on the older models and recieved a disproportionate amount of the customer pay cars. I was always happy when an old 750il would roll in since I new that I would make great money off of them while every one else is tossing window regulators at every other oil service that rolled in. Learning to diagnose electrical problems really fast can make great money on waranty, but you need alot of control over all your repair orders so you can run the clock on one job as you fix another, but this is hard to balance if you are not getting any customer pay work that you can shortchange the time on. And of course all the good customer pay stuff goes to the senior techs who want it, and then you have to play politics with the service writers. The aftermarket is much better about all this crap and alot less stressful.

If nothing else, its a good way to make money to pay your way through school in something else. If you had BMW tech training, you already have a nice edge on education since the aftermarket has very poor training in the theory. You can probably land a decent job in a Euro shop if you can convince them to overlook the fact that you come from a dealer.

In the end for me, it made no difference, after too many years of abusing my body, I finaly riped 2 disks out of my lower back removing the seat from an e34. I don't recomend fixing cars to any one as a lifelong career since back injuries seem to put alot of us hunting for a new career at middle age.

BlueM60

05-21-2006, 12:11 PM

Thanks for all the helpful replies guys. I do agree that an aftermarket shop would be the way to go and I may go that route. Honestly tho, Ive just lost interest in working on cars for a living. Id rather keep it a hobby. I definitely follow the philosophy of happiness over big income. i do want to be comfortable and support by BMW addiction, but with less stress, misery. I have actually thaught of the landscaping idea many times, I dont have a whole lot of the needed equipment. I love the idea of buisiness for myself. Im not into the idea of busting my balls to fill some corporate jack-0ff's pocket.
Thanks for the comments so far, anymore are wecome.

-Ben

kyleN20

05-21-2006, 12:50 PM

hey, i dident have any of the stuff i needed, found a guy online selling it all, picked up a 95 f-150 with 100k on the clock, a bobcat 48in WB commerical mower, a ExMark 36in WB mower, a 21in honda push mower, 2 stick edgers, 2 trimmers, 2 blowers, a hedger and other tidbits all for about 5k, i went in with a buddy, and now we just do about 6 lawns on sat. giving me beer money for weekends, caue im working 60+ hours during the week.

BlueM60

05-21-2006, 02:29 PM

What do you do during the week, is this lawn maintenance idea eventually going to be a career?

-Ben

ThoreauHD

05-21-2006, 02:48 PM

It sounds like you are disgusted with the atmosphere rather than the work, since you want to keep it as a hobby. Also you intimated that you don't want to line somebody else's pockets. At the independent shop that I go to, the techs never see the customers. They get paid via commission. Which means they do a great job and they work very fast. It's very calm and quiet. The tech are just techs listening to music in the back. I can tell they don't like talking to customers, but I don't care. They do a good job.

But if you just hate BMW's and working on them that's another thing. I like building and fixing things myself, but am not in the auto industry. So if you are not happy fixing them, then yes you should change professions.

The way that I picked my profession as a computer monkey, is that I thought hard about two things. What would I be doing for free when I'm not working/in school. What do I have insight into/what am I better than anyone else at doing. Because I have innately somehow insight into computing and worked on them whenever I had spare time, I went that route. Not to put to fine a point on it, I can feel what's wrong and fix it. I have yet to run into something that I can't. If that is mechanics for you, then keep on. If not, then look at what you have a feel for and like. And hit it hard. Good luck.

ericcamaro

05-21-2006, 02:50 PM

Work on BMW Motorcycles I find them much less stressful than working on the cars.

fkong777

05-21-2006, 03:02 PM

try to get enroll in STEP or ELITE program. Certified STEP or ELITE tech will get you 60-70K a year. you will deal with more of the electronics and troubleshooting instead of the dirty muscle work.

onewhippedpuppy

05-21-2006, 03:07 PM

I found myself in a similar spot recently. I spent five semesters in college straight out of high school, quit and decided to pursue a blue collar life. Started in remodeling on basic stuff, ended up doing higher end stuff like finish work and cabinets. Didn't do it for me, so I went to a diesel shop and worked as a tech for a while. Hated it with a passion, even though I enjoy working on my own cars. Moved on to manage a lumberyard, didn't care for that either. On top of all of it, none of them paid what I wanted to make. I eventually realized that the choices I was making were wrong because of my lack of options, and decided to go back to college. Now majoring in aerospace engineering and couldn't be happier.

I did all of this with a wife and now two year old son. I'm only 26, but it's difficult making a major change in life with a family. Your options are wide open right now, you can do anything. I understand your issues with working for someone, I have them myself, but you also have to come to terms with the fact that it's nearly impossible to make a living working for yourself if you have no experience. Whatever it takes, do it. If you like a field that requires college or extra training, do it, because you may not be able to later. Gain some experience in a field that you at least are interested in, then eventually can strike out on your own. Just do something now, whatever it is, because someday you won't have these options.

Brandon J

05-21-2006, 04:01 PM

I agree with you. I went to UTI and then after getting exposed to the insides of the industry I decided to go back to college. I now work for a non profit agency. Very fulfilling helping kids. I just wanted the knowledge of the automotive stuff for hobby and realized quickly that the career aspect wasn't what I was looking for. You can still do side work to make some extra money along side whatever you choose to do. Good luck.

I agree, Derek, I do have a technical degree for automotive tech. but thats it. Theres got to be something better out there. I love working on my Bimmers as a hobby, but I dont see it as a career anymore.

kyleN20

05-21-2006, 04:43 PM

during the week i have a job on a lawn crew, imagin that. i work upwards of 60 hours a week, so for now my lawn business i own is not trying to expand at all, im to busy. and no, this wont be a life long thing. mechanical engineer is the path im headed. although my cousin dose it as his career, started young, and is now 23 with a new house in Royal Oak making around 60k a year plowing in the winter and mowing in the summer.

Zeuk in Oz

05-21-2006, 04:50 PM

After exactly a year of being a BMW technician, I turned in my 30 days notice Fri. Im just not happy at alll and I dont like hating going to work. The warranty pay sucks and my hourly pay isnt that great to start with. Theres too much stress/ bullsh*t in the this buisiness to put up with for the money. I still bleed blue and wihte and love my E34 but need to find something different. Im 24 with no family and unmarried, any ideas guys on a new career?

-Ben
Take some time off, go abroad and travel and spend some time appreciating life. You will also spend time thinking and will probably be better placed emotionally to make the correct decision, whatever that might be.

I spent 2 years abroad after high school and when I got back I changed my career path totally (I had a different course deferred at Uni) and ended up doing what I still do and enjoy today.

There is nothing like the real world to give you perspective and even motivation. :)

onewhippedpuppy

05-21-2006, 05:19 PM

during the week i have a job on a lawn crew, imagine that. i work upwards of 60 hours a week, so for now my lawn business i own is not trying to expand at all, im to busy. and no, this wont be a life long thing. mechanical engineer is the path im headed. although my cousin dose it as his career, started young, and is now 23 with a new house in Royal Oak making around 60k a year plowing in the winter and mowing in the summer.

People always think that you can't make a good living in blue collar work, but they're wrong. In a bigger city, $40k-60k is pretty easy if you're talented and hard-working, much more is possible if you go it alone. You just have to be ok with busting your ass all day, everyday. I mowed yards from 13-16, made $30-$40 an hour self employed. Future prospects are good as well, at least in the states. Most blue collar professions have a demand for help that is expected to skyrocket in the next 20 years or so. All the boomers are retiring, with not enough people to replace them. One other plus, it's pretty damn hard to outsource or downsize someone swinging a hammer or turning a wrench. It's all in what you want, I just decided that life wasn't for me.

Kalevera

05-21-2006, 05:25 PM

Take some time off, go abroad and travel and spend some time appreciating life. You will also spend time thinking and will probably be better placed emotionally to make the correct decision, whatever that might be.

I spent 2 years abroad after high school and when I got back I changed my career path totally (I had a different course deferred at Uni) and ended up doing what I still do and enjoy today.

There is nothing like the real world to give you perspective and even motivation. :)
Absolutely the best advice one can get from this thread.

BlueM60

05-21-2006, 09:32 PM

rob101

05-21-2006, 09:46 PM

Absolutely the best advice one can get from this thread.
I agree sometimes you just need a bit of time to get your head straight, i have seen alot of people who went into generic courses at uni like arts or whatever and thought i am not sure of what to do blah blah.
and then they kind of falter and drop out eventually, thing is if your going to do something really bloody difficult you really need to know 10000% that this is what you want to do. I was wasting my time in my degree until late in 2nd year and early 3rd year where i really decided hey, this is what i want to do and dammit i am going to do it no matter what. and yes it was painful and i had to put crazy hours in at some stages, but it was worth it in the end. I only wish i'd realised that when i first started university.

BigKriss

05-21-2006, 09:53 PM

BlueM60, how much do you get paid?

BlueM60

05-21-2006, 09:56 PM

Ill probably make 40k this year.

BigKriss

05-21-2006, 09:59 PM

wow, thats really good money. What stress/bs do you have to put up with, give us a few examples and how long untill you are fully qualified? It seems good money to me.

BlueM60

05-21-2006, 10:04 PM

Yea the money is not really the problem for me. I just dont really enjoy pulling dashed to change evaporators, doing trannie's on someones 200,000 super greasy road weary E32, doing engine jobs etc. Alot of warranty work comes in the shop wich entails endless programming and modules failing etc. I made that this year by staying late bsically every night and working 6 days a week. In the end, I love my 540 and tinkering with it because its mine, I odnt have to race a clock to work on it and I know its in good condition, not someone else's junk. I just dont enjoy the work, it absolutely sucks in my opinion.

-Ben

ajt3nc

05-21-2006, 10:06 PM

I have been a dj, s.f. marine, a G.M. at a new car dealer, and am currently a tax attorney.
I have two degrees and can state in nearly 50 years all jobs have good and bad sides. I make very good money and put up with more BS than my other jobs.
Your GPA means crap 5 years from now. Learn what you can then get a job and learn the skills to perform it.
I was a gifted/talented 16 year old with a degree in communications and realized it sucked. I enjoyed the gung-ho thing but did not see a future in being constrained. When I ran the dealership, after years of HARD work, I was sick of the customers and went back to college. I now put up with crap but have a wife, 2 daughters, and two ex-wives looking for $.
A good tech is every bit as educated and committed as any college grad. College does not mean you are superior, smarter or wiser, it means you stuck out some crap to get ahead of the quitters.
If you REALLY want to best others, get a masters and then you will still put up with a massive amount of stress, demands, and expectations but you will be rewarded for your efforts. Twenty years later when you are making $150k a year it will pay off.
Good luck and give it your all.

BigKriss

05-21-2006, 10:06 PM

fair enough then. Good explaination. Good luck with whatever you choose.

BlueM60

05-21-2006, 10:21 PM

Once again thank all you guys for the great posts, I feel really inspired at this point. Theres a reason the we all have the cars that we do, we know class, quality, style and craftsmanship. I think that fact carries through in other aspects of life. I am enlightened on what a terriffic group embodies this forum. Im happy to be here with people that share my passion for BMW's and life.

-Ben

BlueM60

05-21-2006, 10:22 PM

Cheesy eh...

Zeuk in Oz

05-22-2006, 01:55 AM

People always think that you can't make a good living in blue collar work, but they're wrong. In a bigger city, $40k-60k is pretty easy if you're talented and hard-working, much more is possible if you go it alone. You just have to be ok with busting your ass all day, everyday. I mowed yards from 13-16, made $30-$40 an hour self employed. Future prospects are good as well, at least in the states. Most blue collar professions have a demand for help that is expected to skyrocket in the next 20 years or so. All the boomers are retiring, with not enough people to replace them. One other plus, it's pretty damn hard to outsource or downsize someone swinging a hammer or turning a wrench. It's all in what you want, I just decided that life wasn't for me.

I don't understand the pre-occupation with categorising what sort of work you do into blue collar or white collar. As some of you know I am a vet and love it. Many would call this a profession, but when I am cleaning dog$hit out of a cage, is that white collar or blue collar work ?

As long as you enjoy what you do, who gives a tinkers if you have letters after your name or not. In my case I am not legally allowed to practise without those letters.

As for remuneration, I find that people who like their job tend to do it well and so tend to earn more.

I spent some time working part time for a mining company that manufactured mining pumps (gravel pumps, slurry pumps etc) putting their manual stock system onto computer when I was still at Uni. They offered me a ridiculous amount of money to stay on and work for them full time but I didn't take it because I would have been bored in 6 months. It was a good part-time job but no career.

Take your time, find something you like and do it well.

Satisfaction will almost certainly follow.

Paul in NZ

05-22-2006, 03:17 AM

Theres a reason the we all have the cars that we do, we know class, quality, style and craftsmanship

something just doesnt gel here..a few peices above you are calling them peices of junk....

ThoreauHD

05-22-2006, 03:24 AM

OK, so you hate the work. That's fine.

As for the GPA problem Blue, it's not a problem if you know you want a college or Masters or JD/MD/PhD. I live near the University of Virginia and there is a college nearby called Piedmont Community College. People with a low or average GPA go there for 2 years, bust ass, and then transfer directly to UVa for the last 2-3 years. I'm sure next to most major Universities the same situation applies for access to State Universities. So if you want it, it's there for you. You just need to know what you want going in. Getting a 4 year degree honestly doesn't mean **** in the real world, but it allows you to get your MBA or MD or.. I take that back.. you don't even need it for a MD. My father went through college in 1.5 years and then to med school. Other MD's I know were english majors and psych majors and basically just took the required to get it. Your 4 year is granted at admission to a higher degree. I'm babbling.. but those are all options to you.

And I also agree with Zeuk. The blue and white collar thing does not wash. You will crawl through **** no matter what you do. I did medicine for a bit and working on cars are clean compared to that. And you don't die if you cut yourself.

My current profession has me crawling around cielings and floors in places people haven't seen for 10 years. It's just part of it, but not the whole part. The only thing I can call a white collar job are the ones that are useless. Management. CEO's. Money launderers. Politicians. People that can't do, teach. People that can't teach, manage. That is about as white collar as I know of. And you have to really be into yourself to do it. So, YMMV, but all these things are all options for you.

rob101

05-22-2006, 03:31 AM

I don't understand the pre-occupation with categorising what sort of work you do into blue collar or white collar. As some of you know I am a vet and love it. Many would call this a profession, but when I am cleaning dog$hit out of a cage, is that white collar or blue collar work ?

As long as you enjoy what you do, who gives a tinkers if you have letters after your name or not. In my case I am not legally allowed to practise without those letters.

As for remuneration, I find that people who like their job tend to do it well and so tend to earn more.

I spent some time working part time for a mining company that manufactured mining pumps (gravel pumps, slurry pumps etc) putting their manual stock system onto computer when I was still at Uni. They offered me a ridiculous amount of money to stay on and work for them full time but I didn't take it because I would have been bored in 6 months. It was a good part-time job but no career.

yeah well most of the blue collar people i work with earn more than I and they get RDO's. oh well they are mechanics whilst i don't mind the occasional dabble here and there i am not a mechanic, each job has its pro's and con's.
I've met a guy who used to work hard, hard as all buggery in the mines as a fitter. now he's a sales rep for a torque wrench company (the big ones that run off hydraulic power packs) we did some work tightening slew bolts. he said he didn't miss that ****. but he is happy with the lesser paying job.
I tend to agree with Zouk as well, if you excel naturally in your chosen field because you love it. people will recognise that in your wage, or if they don't their competitors probably will :D
PS mechanics can earn 6 figure salaries working in mines etc. around here. they say skilled trade peoples are the new rich!

onewhippedpuppy

05-22-2006, 05:04 AM

I use blue collar vs white collar because it's an easy, common way to classify jobs. Not that white collar work doesn't require getting your hands dirty, because it often does. It's not a matter of being elitest or anything, it's just easier than listing a bunch of different examples.

onewhippedpuppy

05-22-2006, 05:25 AM

Wow excellent advice from everyone here, very much appreciated. I thnk when it boils down to it, Im not happy with the blue collar lifestyle. I realized tonight Id rather be designing these cars rather than working on them. I wouldnt even know how to get back into school tho, I F*cked up my GPA when I was in college last time. Man, if I could go back to high school and do it again...

-Ben

My first go at college probably beats yours, I had a 1.154 GPA my first semester. Went three semesters, got kicked out. Worked for a year, got back in, did well for a semester, then dropped out. It was all about motivation, I didn't have any because I didn't know why I was going. It took having a family and finding that the blue collar world wasn't for me to realize that college was the right path, sounds like you may be at that point now. With a bit of motivation I'm doing well, I'm above a 3.0 in engineering.

However bad it is, you can overcome it. I had 5 semesters of crap and didn't have any problem enrolling in Wichita State University. Many schools have a academic forgiveness program, where they only take the credit from your prior classes, and not the bad grades. Hard to believe, but mine weren't bad enough to qualify. WSU isn't MIT, but they have an excellent aerospace engineering program, that's all I care about.

The community college route is probably the best suggestion thus far, because it's cheap and easy. That way you help bring up that bad GPA, and you ease back into learning. As odd as it sounds, that was the hardest part of my return to college, learning how to learn again. I assume you're in the US, so you should have no trouble getting financial aid to pay for it all. The only catch is making sure that your CC credits/grades transfer to the 4 year school you intend to go to. Not a big deal, just so you stay in the same state most schools work together, but worth checking out.

It's a big step, but I would venture to say it may be the right one for you. My breaking point was working as a mechanic, because it was the most miserable job I have ever had, for a lot of reasons. I realized that I was out of options, and that if I didn't do something that this would be my life. It was an epiphany of sorts, I realized that I had taken the wrong path, and it was time for a U-turn. Put some serious thought into it, if you decide it's right for you it's not too late to enroll for the fall semester and apply for financial aid. If you think about taking this path and feel like a huge load is off of you, then it's the right path. Good luck.

s_ribbens

05-22-2006, 06:43 AM

I don't understand the pre-occupation with categorising what sort of work you do into blue collar or white collar.

I'm not sure that it's anything more than the generalized attitude within each socially classified division of the workforce. Just because a job is "white collar" doesn't mean that you don't get your hands dirty, nor that people don't talk stupid and make inappropriate jokes. But, I think there is a certain gap, if for no other reason than the typical requirements for white collar jobs, which blue collar typically do not have. Or, take it down to basic human nature; we like to have a label for every damn thing we can.