need info camshaft removal M30B35 engine

[shogun]

One of our club members has some trouble with a camshaft on his E32 735iL (built 1990) and we want to help him to change it.

Questions to the people which have done this already on E34 535 or 735:

1. is it possible in situ or does the head complete to come out?

2. Any online DIY procedure available besides Bentley manual? Or special hint from own experience?

3. What else would you change on this occassion in addition to camshaft, as we are working on that area? A chance to do some preventive maintenance.

3. recommended parts to order to be on the save side that nothing is missing when we do it? Rough price idea for parts?

4. approx. time required for DIYers

I have checked various boards. Most say: cylinder head has to come out of the engine room complete to do this.

But on the German board they say it is possible to keep the head on the engine and just pull the camshaft out. Might be a little bit tricky work.

Thanks for the input

[Kalevera]

1) Never done it myself, but I'm relatively certain it can be done if the front of the engine is angled up. The factory tool for holding the valve springs in the compressed position (and rockers up) assumes that the head bolts are removed, but I'm sure that could be worked around, as well.

2) Personally, I think it's easier to just remove the head.

3) Valve stem seals and keeper caps, check the pad bushings on all rockers for wear (if a cam lobe is worn, the rocker likely has a gouge, as well). To do those, however, really requires removing the head. Heck, the head gasket, as well -- they blow all the time, and it's an easy job to do.

That second #3) head bolts (if the head gets pulled), an extra rocker (if replacing the rockers). The top end gasket kit should be ~ $100. Get Elring or Goetz.

4) Maybe 8 hours with good tools? No clue...


best, whit

[Gene in NC]

Check out this link for possible help on cam removal w/o Iron Maiden.

http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/525i/26Jun05/

[Morgenster]

The following link applies to most 6cyl engines, but isn't M30 specific.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Camshaft-Removal/E36-camshaft-removal.htm

Looks like you should get the head out if you want it done properly.

[Rustam]

One of our club members has some trouble with a camshaft on his E32 735iL (built 1990) and we want to help him to change it.

Questions to the people which have done this already on E34 535 or 735:

1. is it possible in situ or does the head complete to come out?

2. Any online DIY procedure available besides Bentley manual? Or special hint from own experience?

3. What else would you change on this occassion in addition to camshaft, as we are working on that area? A chance to do some preventive maintenance.

3. recommended parts to order to be on the save side that nothing is missing when we do it? Rough price idea for parts?

4. approx. time required for DIYers

I have checked various boards. Most say: cylinder head has to come out of the engine room complete to do this.

But on the German board they say it is possible to keep the head on the engine and just pull the camshaft out. Might be a little bit tricky work.

Thanks for the input

I've done this myself, and developed a procedure (a tool).
1 - The head must come out as all valves must be depressed. The pistons will be on the way otherwise.
2 - Yes - my webpage shows how to modify regular 4-inch clamps to depress the valves: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzerdcib/e34a/id1.html
3 - Else change all the rockers, oil sprayer bar, updated oli bar "banjo bolts".
4 - 2 rocker shafts, 12 rockers, 14 head bolts, gasket set ~450USD
recommended part - a protractor to measure 35+5 degrees of bolt torque angle.
5 - Approximate time - never done this job before - first time ~ one month including time for shipment of parts...
_________

NOW: At the Cyl 1 TDC mark on the wheel at the front of the engine 2 cylinders are positioned at TDC - 1 and 6. Next two cylinders will find TDC 120 degrees away, since pistons travel together in pairs and 6 makes three pairs with 120 degrees separation at encountering TDC. So, it is very concievable that a few degrees past Cyl 1 TDC on the wheel (60 degrees - guessing) no pistons would be on the way of the valves as they are depressed...
BUT: If he finds a problem with the camshaft he may as well find a problem with the rockers (guessing - camshaft is worn?). It's a tougher job but I would remove the head.

At least you can try turning the engine ~60 degrees past Cyl 1 TDC and depressing all the valves if the rockers are deemed "fine"... The engine must be inclined and the hood must be off...

One last thing - I forgot which one but one type of the valves is larger in diameter - either exhaust or intake. The smaller valves must be depressed FIRST to provide greater space for the larger ones to come down before clashing. If the larger valve is depressed first then its greater diameter would not allow as much space for the other valve before clashing very possibly resulting in insufficient space for camshaft clearance.

[Gene in NC]

Rustam, clever approach. Is reader assumed to be smart enough to understand that 12 sets of clamp/pin are required or am I missing something.

[Bellicose Right Winger]

I can't speak to this particular engine but previous M30's did not require a cam removal tool, even though factory recommended it. I was able to do this on my '83 533i. You slid the rockers off the cam, rotated the cam as needed and you could work the camshaft out.

If you've got a bad cam you've probably got a bad rocker also. Even if you could get the cam out you can't get rocker shafts out w/o pulling head.

Paul Shovestul

[genphreak]

Rustam, clever approach. Is reader assumed to be smart enough to understand that 12 sets of clamp/pin are required or am I missing something.That is the snag. But they are only $4 each at the hardware shop- assuming you cna find ones that fit as Rustam dide- (but they don't look special). Once should repalce rocker shafts if replacing rockers I would have thought (did on mine), they are $100US for all 4.

Bare in mind you need the clamps even if the head is off, unless you don't reaplce the shafts and are happy to do the valve stems and seals one by one. As Lowell said, its easier if you take the thing off, and a new gasket might be preventative maintenance anyway. At $150 for gasket and bolts, why not if it makes the job easier. Also if it comes off, you can take it to a head reconditioner and avoid doing the valve work yourself. They usuallly have the tool (ie only use one that has) and like working on the older stuff so it usually doesn't work out too expensive if you want a clean, check, the valve guides, seals and stems done. If keen you can reseat the valves too, its easy once the thing is apart. :) nick

Things to be careful of? Get the sprayer bar round the right way (before putting the head on as you have to remove a head bolt to remove the bar) and get it acid tank cleaned with the head if you resuse the old one (they don't wear out). Banjo bolts of course -Gale's bolts are great- and the special seal bolt at the back of the head- remember which of the little 10mm hex bolts came from which hole! The different one with the o-ring is critical to get in the right hole.

Tings to change at the same time? Timing chain and sprockets, front crank seal, oil pump or the parts that wear on it- and the chain that drives the pump from the crank sprocket (similar to the way the timing chain drives the camshaft). That means pulling the pan- making the job bigger, but you don't want low oil pressure one day soon wrecking your nice new head! See Rustam's page for good info on the oil pump too. Parts are cheap here too :)

Last thing to replace is the check valve in the oil cannister as preventative maintainence- or swap to remote oil coolar and filter using Bruno's plates. They are very nice- (only!) another $100!

[Rustam]

Rustam, clever approach. Is reader assumed to be smart enough to understand that 12 sets of clamp/pin are required or am I missing something.

Well the reader is assumed to use as many as (s)he finds necessary. Minimum that I found is 6. Why? If the cylinder 1 is set to TDC then the rear half of the head does not constrain the rockers much - relief of the camshaft is simply achieved by undoing the bolts holding eccentrics. This leaves the person with 6 rockers to lift quite comforably...

The material used for pins must be tough!

________

P.S. The reader is assumed to be smart enough to be careful! - eye protection is a must. And the material must be tough. One of the pins had actually bent and flew up. I would recommend using the screwdriver shaft to cut a few pins.

[Rustam]

I can't speak to this particular engine but previous M30's did not require a cam removal tool, even though factory recommended it. I was able to do this on my '83 533i. You slid the rockers off the cam, rotated the cam as needed and you could work the camshaft out.

If you've got a bad cam you've probably got a bad rocker also. Even if you could get the cam out you can't get rocker shafts out w/o pulling head.

Paul Shovestul

What did you use to rotate the camshaft?

[Bellicose Right Winger]

As I recall it was a couple of bolts in cam sprocket flange and a screw driver for leverage.

Paul Shovestul



What did you use to rotate the camshaft?