OT: Who came first?

[Rob]

The chicken or the Egg?

[sKilled]

The egg - that what we consider today as the chicken is a genetic anomaly which has prevailed. This genetic anomaly was at some point bred by its predecessors, and in order for it to see the light of day it must have itself been inside an egg.

[trumpetr]

The egg - that what we consider today as the chicken is a genetic anomaly which has prevailed. This genetic anomaly was at some point bred by its predecessors, and in order for it to see the light of day it must have itself been inside an egg.

ok, i give up,,,what makes a chicken a genetic anomaly?

[sKilled]

It is a genetic anomaly in the sense that it is a mutation, a mutation which was particularly successful. Well sort of, if you consider being eaten, and having ones young scrambled or turned into pancakes successful.

[Rob]

But you need a chicken to lay the Egg...but how did the chicken get there...

[sKilled]

It wasn't the chicken which we know today, but its predecessor which laid the egg that contained the chicken. Oversimplified, x+y=z. One does not require z in order to have it as an end product. Bear in mind it is commonly accepted that this process is so gradual, that most biologists consider 20,000 years to be an acceptable timescale for ONE successful mutation.

[Rob]

Okay, so where did it's predecessor come from?

[trumpetr]

It is a genetic anomaly in the sense that it is a mutation, a mutation which was particularly successful. Well sort of, if you consider being eaten, and having ones young scrambled or turned into pancakes successful.

Huh? An anomoly/mutation??? Huh? I guess, I just dont get it. A chicken is a genetic anomoly,or is it a mutation?? Kinda' hard to be both. Or either, if you are a chicken.

Sometimes a chicken, is just a chicken.

[DaveVoorhis]

Huh? An anomoly/mutation??? Huh? I guess, I just dont get it. A chicken is a genetic anomoly,or is it a mutation?? Kinda' hard to be both. Or either, if you are a chicken.

Sometimes a chicken, is just a chicken.

Mutation and "genetic anomaly" mean the same thing.

Here's a simplified version:

At some point in the dim, distant past, a creature that was very similar to, but not quite a chicken, laid a special egg. That egg contained a genetic anomaly, aka a mutation. When the egg hatched, out popped a creature very similar to -- but not the same as -- a chicken, and very similar to -- but not the same as -- its parent.

When that new creature mated with the other not-quite-chicken creatures, the resulting eggs hatched. The combination of mutant not-quite-chicken DNA and normal not-quite-chicken DNA produced what we call chickens. Those chickens mated with other chickens, laid eggs, and they hatched to produce more chickens, and so on.

As it turned out, the offspring of the non-chicken mutation and the non-chickens was dominant and successful, and so its offspring are with us today, and happen to be very tasty fried, curried, sauteed, boiled, or in soups.

[trumpetr]

Mutation and "genetic anomaly" mean the same thing.

Here's a simplified version:

At some point in the dim, distant past, a creature that was very similar to, but not quite a chicken, laid a special egg. That egg contained a genetic anomaly, aka a mutation. When the egg hatched, out popped a creature very similar to -- but not the same as -- a chicken, and very similar to -- but not the same as -- its parent.

When that new creature mated with the other not-quite-chicken creatures, the resulting eggs hatched. The combination of mutant not-quite-chicken DNA and normal not-quite-chicken DNA produced chickens. Those chickens laid eggs, and they hatched to produce more chickens, and so on.

As it turned out, the offspring of the non-chicken mutation and the non-chickens was dominant and successful, and so its offspring are with us today, and happen to be very tasty fried, curried, sauteed, boiled, or in soups.

Thank you. Risking beginning a sentance with a preposition, Is that not evolution, in general 'simplified'? I was wrong,,,I thought of an anomoly, as an unexplained, unexpected change.

[sKilled]

Of course we could always spice it up and invite the opinion of a creationist. Please excuse me for a bit as I have to go pis myself laughing. ID cracks me up. It's right up there with the Flat Earth Society guys.

[pingu]

This is easy! The egg came first - dinosaurs laid eggs and were around long before chickens.

So what came first, the dinosaur or the egg?

[sKilled]

Hmm, I wonder if therefore dinos taste like chicken? Where was that Jurassic Park island again?

[DaveVoorhis]

Thank you. Risking beginning a sentance with a preposition, Is that not evolution, in general 'simplified'? I was wrong,,,I thought of an anomoly, as an unexplained, unexpected change.

Yes, that is a simplified version of evolution. Evolutionary theory uses random mutation -- i.e., an unexplained, unexpected change in a DNA sequence -- to explain the generation of new species. "Unexplained" in this case means we don't know specifically what caused the mutation, but we know in general that mutations occur spontaneously all the time.

Mutations are common, but the vast majority are not viable, resulting in worthless sperm and non-fertilizable eggs. A tiny percentage are viable, but result in stillbirths, sterility, retardation, or physical deformity. An even smaller percentage are viable, non-sterile, and dominant, and result in a new species.

[trumpetr]

Of course we could always spice it up and invite the opinion of a creationist. Please excuse me for a bit as I have to go pis myself laughing. ID cracks me up. It's right up there with the Flat Earth Society guys.

More better to spice it up with some garlic, olive oil, mushrooms, tomatoes, crushed red pepper, Voila-- Chicken Caccitore!!

Yum.

[Morgenster]

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14213717

I won't spoil the answer:D

[misfortune]

Why did you bring this discussion here?

Now the psuedo intellectuals will come out of the woodwork with their "logic" and this thread will erupt into flames and idiocy. Good work!!

[angrypancake]

and its going to be awesome. and the chicken came first.

[SharkmanBMW]

I love omelettes, and chicken!:p

I don't care who came first, as long as they keep comin'!!!

[angrypancake]

I love omelettes, and chicken!:p




and beer!

[Alexlind123]

Chicken!!

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

and the Hen was left to sleep on the wet spot.

[sKilled]

Thanks for ruining my lunch Blitzkrieg.

[Jon K]

Kfc

[ProZak]

and the Hen was left to sleep on the wet spot.
lmao. I was just thinking that.

[angrypancake]

Kfc


is only ~30% "chicken" and therefore cannot be called kentucky fried chicken

[Jay 535i]

There is no such thing as either a "chicken" or an "egg".

You take "chicken" and "egg" to each be absolute, finite notions, when in fact those notions are strictly human conventions, and chickens and eggs are both really points on a continuum. The names we give them are practical, but force an unnatural conception of that animal as though it is frozen in time, when in fact it is a dynamic, evolving species, ever-changing.

The chicken is on the continuum of whatever branch of evolution chickens are on -- starting way back when with unicellular organisms and ending up wherever that branch of evolution is going to end up. Eggs are on the continuum of the lifecycle, beginning with the primitive mitosis of unicellular organisms and culminating in the death of an adult complex organism.

Since each is just a point on a smooth continuum, one cannot say where either the chicken or the egg actually begin and end. And so it cannot be determined which came first.

Furthermore, the egg is part of the chicken, existing outside its body. You can no more ask "which came first -- chicken or egg" than you can ask "which came first -- one or two". Each is meaningless without the other. A chicken that does not lay eggs is not a chicken. An egg which did not come from a chicken is not an egg. The answer is tautological. The very definitions of "chicken" and "egg" preclude one coming before the other.

Howzat?

[ThoreauHD]

The chicken or the Egg?

The cock.

[Jay 535i]

This is good, too:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/05/26/chicken.egg/

[DaveVoorhis]

There is no such thing as either a "chicken" or an "egg".

...

Howzat?

You get an "A" on the exam.

[Alexlind123]

Since each is just a point on a smooth continuum, one cannot say where either the chicken or the egg actually begin and end. Howzat?

The egg begins when it drops outta the chicken. It ends when it hatches.

Howzat?

[Nick.Hay]

Who came first??

She did!! A few times!!

But thats enough about MY weekend... ;)

[Jay 535i]

The egg begins when it drops outta the chicken. It ends when it hatches.

Howzat?

That's just one egg. I was talking about more general eggdom. As in, the evolution of eggs as sex cells. Not just the life of one egg.