The pieces are falling into place...

[Jon K]

Well - bought the intercooler. Alan (alan_525i) and my bud PT (turbo GTI VR6) came over yesterday and we all watched Top Gear, which lead to them telling me to buy a damned turbo manifold and get **** seriously rolling. I said "no, no not yet.." but later that night after watching some movies with the g/f the "buy bug" got to me and I went and pulled the trigger. I managed to snipe this Stainless Steel T3 flanged M3/325/328 manifold well below the Buy It Now price... now I wait eagerly.


Mr. IRS man sent me a check too, so later this week I'll be buying my Tial 38mm wastegate and maybe some silicone couplers. Then later, as I get done these E34 installs I will pick up a nice Holset H1C :)

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/10056586/Images/tm-e36-1.jpg

[Incantation]

http://www.photohosting.info/uploads/faa3c9c5b3.gif

[SchnellE34]

if you get it done before the e34 meet, your car would be fast enough to make it there and back in time for you intership, haha

Note: If you decide to do this, pick me up in Pgh, cause I want a ride in that bad ass machine

[Jon K]

if you get it done before the e34 meet, your car would be fast enough to make it there and back in time for you intership, haha

Note: If you decide to do this, pick me up in Pgh, cause I want a ride in that bad ass machine


I dunno if it will be done by then - I really doubt it. If I did manage to get it done, you can bet I'd be ripping the hell out of it and probably blow it up on the way out there. In this case, I am almost thankful that it won't be done LOL.

[SchnellE34]

HAHA, that’s hilarious. Gettin towed into Schaumburg, lol. Well good luck with the project let us know the results.

BTW you suck, um green with envy…:D

[Jon K]

Haha not a prob -

I guy buyers bite again... instead of ordering the wastegate later this week, I went ahead and ordered it now. Polished housing, 38mm, 8.7 psi wastegate spring, stainless steel flanged :) I am really getting anxious. One more part needed... turbo. :)

[kyleN20]

best of luck to you, please change yer sig

[tim s]

it has been laying in his living room for about a year with his waste gate.
tim s.

[Scott H]

Should he add horses to it?


best of luck to you, please change yer sig

[Jon K]

Should he add horses to it?


Ponies scott, ponies...

[kyleN20]

less anamation

[genphreak]

Good to see Jon. With custom ECU and M20 engine I am surprised you persisted with the SC for so long as so much is easily available, a lot of the hard work done and helpful knowledge out there.

On an RHD M30 like mine it is much easier to supercharge, but that is because things are tight on the RH side of the engine bay with the steering box beig right under the manifold (Hence the bi-turbo Alpina B10 was only ever available in LHD). You have all the luxury to choose <cries>

Enjoy, and don't blow it up! You won't need to dial in that much boost to be happy in the real world, restraining one's urges is vital if you want to avoid trouble in the long run on a turbo install :) Nick

[Jon K]

Good to see Jon. With custom ECU and M20 engine I am surprised you persisted with the SC for so long as so much is easily available, a lot of the hard work done and helpful knowledge out there.

On an RHD M30 like mine it is much easier to supercharge, but that is because things are tight on the RH side of the engine bay with the steering box beig right under the manifold (Hence the bi-turbo Alpina B10 was only ever available in LHD). You have all the luxury to choose <cries>

Enjoy, and don't blow it up! You won't need to dial in that much boost to be happy in the real world, restraining one's urges is vital if you want to avoid trouble in the long run on a turbo install :) Nick


I have 2 M50 non vanos

[genphreak]

I have 2 M50 non vanos;) Hah I meant to say M50. Never messed with them myself- but they sound highly promising from you and others have said and done. If I ever get a new motor, it'll include a manual tranny and be a toss-up between one of them and an M88 variant and the M50 would be far smarter fiinancially and be far more 'scalable' !~ Hahahaha!

[kyleN20]

i always thought that the m30 was a turbo engine first and formost, not a sc engine?

[genphreak]

i always thought that the m30 was a turbo engine first and formost, not a sc engine?Only cos the factory, Alpina and Schnitzer did all that work with the old KKK turbos on the M88s during the CSL and ProCar racing days (in the late 70's early 80's). BMW then took up this work and incoporated it into a production car (the e23 745i turbo) which as you may know is based on a modified M30 block. For us, an M102/M88/S38 engine is so similar, it is not hard to decently charge an M30. **But** the manifolds are far more abundant for M50s as the 3 series brigade encouraged a massive world market for more modern turbo solutions for their 2.5 litre motors, making these a much more affordable and adjustable option fo anyone with these same engines.

These days an M30 can be turboed using the older, conservative but VERY reliable e23 745i setup (but these are now very old parts), or it may be done using customised intake and exhaust manifolds to acheive a better, more modern installation. These are done by a handful of tuners on each continent and are necessarily costly projects that require ECU changes also. Not many M30s get turboed nowadays due to this.

A supercharger on the other hand fits in the LH side of the L6 engine bay where there is ample room by an M30 oil filter (which is best remotely mounted anyway), requires only re-routing the intake piping and can be simply driven by an M30's power steering or alternator V-belt. Lower levels of boost don't even require massive ECU mods or even any fuel-air ratio map changes.
:) Nick

[E34 530]

Sounds sweet Jon. Still waiting for my crap to arrive... Hopefully it arrives before the e34 meet in Chicago, or I won't be going. Like last time, I demand a ride in it again. I'm also considering doing a tv install like you did because my friends I was telling you about came out so nice. I' thinking about putting it under the ashtray though. best of luck w/ the turbo install- Andrew

[Jon K]

Only cos the factory, Alpina and Schnitzer did all that work with the old KKK turbos on the M88s during the CSL and ProCar racing days (in the late 70's early 80's). BMW then took up this work and incoporated it into a production car (the e23 745i turbo) which as you may know is based on a modified M30 block. For us, an M102/M88/S38 engine is so similar, it is not hard to decently charge an M30. **But** the manifolds are far more abundant for M50s as the 3 series brigade encouraged a massive world market for more modern turbo solutions for their 2.5 litre motors, making these a much more affordable and adjustable option fo anyone with these same engines.

These days an M30 can be turboed using the older, conservative but VERY reliable e23 745i setup (but these are now very old parts), or it may be done using customised intake and exhaust manifolds to acheive a better, more modern installation. These are done by a handful of tuners on each continent and are necessarily costly projects that require ECU changes also. Not many M30s get turboed nowadays due to this.

A supercharger on the other hand fits in the LH side of the L6 engine bay where there is ample room by an M30 oil filter (which is best remotely mounted anyway), requires only re-routing the intake piping and can be simply driven by an M30's power steering or alternator V-belt. Lower levels of boost don't even require massive ECU mods or even any fuel-air ratio map changes.
:) Nick


The only issue with trying to supercharge an M30/M20 using a like-stock belt system is that they use V-belts, which do not have NEARLY enough surface area to grip a compressor pulley and spin it at high revs without slipping. Every supercharged M30/M20 I have seen either incorporates a very tedious serpentine belt conversion (6 or 8 rib belt) or a crank pulley with an additional track for a serpentine belt (typically 8 rib) that runs a seperate belt circuit for the blower - both methods must incorporate an automatic belt tensioner. With my old setup, I used the OE tensioner and sized the belt so it was real tight against the stock layout. This meant I used a VERY long belt - 94" long to be exact - but because the belt was longer, tight, and 6 rib, it was less likely to get hot and start expanding/slipping. I was experiencing belt-slip the last 50 miles before the damage to the blower occured, but that's to be expected - supercharged cars typically replace belts fairly often unless they're cog belts, which are horrible for the belt system of the car. But alas, no more belt drama for me - no more parasitic loss - no more "wheres my boost?!?" at 3500rpm - this thing should be fun!

Andrew - let me know whats up man. I still have jasens car in the garage waiting on his springs. You'll definitely get a ride when it runs!

[genphreak]

Agreed. But modding one of these cars to run a serpentine belt is not easy or cheap - and I don't want to spend heaps on an M30; a custom turbo becoems more enticing then...

I'd go for a smaller charger as it is cheap and can run on v-belts. Replacing $10 belts is fine and a 13mm can pull a fair bit. I consider 4-6 pounds more than enough for extra fun, judiciously used on a good stock motor.

The best way I figured on the M30 (avoiding serpentines that is) would be to run a dedicated 13mm V belt (requires another pulley on the balancer but they are only $10 each) direct to the SC.

I'd rather a nice clean looking serpentine but its so damned expensive to run everything on a single $50 belt that one's charger will wear through in a matter of months. And they ain't easy to change either.

[Jon K]

Agreed. But modding one of these cars to run a serpentine belt is not easy or cheap - and I don't want to spend heaps on an M30; a custom turbo becoems more enticing then...

I'd go for a smaller charger as it is cheap and can run on v-belts. Replacing $10 belts is fine and a 13mm can pull a fair bit. I consider 4-6 pounds more than enough for extra fun, judiciously used on a good stock motor.

The best way I figured on the M30 (avoiding serpentines that is) would be to run a dedicated 13mm V belt (requires another pulley on the balancer but they are only $10 each) direct to the SC.

I'd rather a nice clean looking serpentine but its so damned expensive to run everything on a single $50 belt that one's charger will wear through in a matter of months. And they ain't easy to change either.

That's my point - S-belts are pricey and hard to implement. I did that, it wasn't fun. But realistically, you're forgetting something. "I'd go for a smaller charger as it's cheap..." Theres not such thing as a "small charger". If by small, you mean the pulley size, that's not good. The smaller the pulley, the more "belt wrap" is required to make the greatest grip on the pulley - hence the greated circumference in contact with belt. However, a larger pulley will have greater belt contact/belt wrap while not requiring belt wrap. A v-belt cannto really "wrap" any more than about oh 100 degrees or so - you can't make it wrap back up with an idler pulley like you can a S-belt. So - now you basically need a supercharger with the LARGEST pulley size... but that means you need a supercharger with the highest compression ratio to make boost since a large input pulley at X rpm = lower output rpm at that same X rpm.

This is why I went with the ASA blower. Rotrex, Vortech, Powerdyne, all use a < 3.3" pulley because they all have a internal gear ratio of about 9:1 - 1 spin on the main pulley spins the impeller 9 times. The ASA blower, however, has a internal gear ratio of 15:1 meaning that the pulley on the outside can be larger which will allow for more belt contact (sort of moot because of S-belt wrap via idlers, but i was still slipping a little!) and better spin of the impeller. The 3.3" pulleys on Vortech make like 7 psi. My ASA pulley was 150mm, basically 5.5+" pulley, put out ~9 psi. It really depends on the internal ratio, the belt system, the pulley size, and the gear type (heat!). Lots of variables to consider and that's why it took me so much thinking to get my custom built kit complete and running correctly.