M5 conversion

[colamangr]

Hello guys!

I want to swap the M5 S38B36 engine to my 520 M50
What am i going to need apart from the engine?

Thank you!!!:D

[rob101]

err ECU, Transmission, mounts, exhaust
have you considered doing an s50 swap?

[colamangr]

Only these???
Yes i have, but it is easier for me to find a S38! And a lot cheaper i think(at least here in greece).

[rob101]

in all honesty an M5 would be cheaper
and would have lots of goodies that a 520i doesn't
i like my 525i m50 also, but i've crunched the numbers and they just don't justify engine swap vs. an m5 or 540i
and no there is more stuff than that, that'd be for starters!

[Scott H]

He knows the exact list, but it's not terribly different from many other swaps.

You need the engine with all accessories (including exhaust), the tranny, clutch, flywheel, driveshaft, tranny support, pedal box, clutch master and slave, shifter linkage, ECU for engine, engine wiring harness, a couple of brackets to weld in the engine bay to hold coil, etc. The M5 used a larger case differential so if you want to use the M5 differential, you will need the entire subframe from the M5 as well.


Only these???
Yes i have, but it is easier for me to find a S38! And a lot cheaper i think(at least here in greece).

[colamangr]

He knows the exact list, but it's not terribly different from many other swaps.

You need the engine with all accessories (including exhaust), the tranny, clutch, flywheel, driveshaft, tranny support, pedal box, clutch master and slave, shifter linkage, ECU for engine, engine wiring harness, a couple of brackets to weld in the engine bay to hold coil, etc. The M5 used a larger case differential so if you want to use the M5 differential, you will need the entire subframe from the M5 as well.
you are saying about pedal box, what do you mean? As for the differential i will use a large case differential from a 535 e28 which fits to my subframe!

[colamangr]

I know all these but i don't want to sell my car or buy another one... i want to convert it to an M5. Also an M5 here would cost the triple from swaping engines!

[Scott H]

If so, then you are set regarding the pedals and the box. Otherwise, you need pedals and a pedal box for the manual cars as the pedal box for a manual car has a small tab that accomodates the clutch helper spring.


you are saying about pedal box, what do you mean? As for the differential i will use a large case differential from a 535 e28 which fits to my subframe!

[Brandon J]

I did this. DO A SEARCH!!! I am not going to say the list again. You will need a donor car. Too many different odds and ends that complete such a project. Even the heatshields for the front subframe have to be correct or else you will cause premature wear on the center link ball joint from the heat. Again, you will need a donor car.


Hello guys!

I want to swap the M5 S38B36 engine to my 520 M50
What am i going to need apart from the engine?

Thank you!!!:D

[colamangr]

If so, then you are set regarding the pedals and the box. Otherwise, you need pedals and a pedal box for the manual cars as the pedal box for a manual car has a small tab that accomodates the clutch helper spring.
Yes my 520 is a manual! Sorry i forgot to mention it...

[colamangr]

I did this. DO A SEARCH!!! I am not going to say the list again. You will need a donor car. Too many different odds and ends that complete such a project. Even the heatshields for the front subframe have to be correct or else you will cause premature wear on the center link ball joint from the heat. Again, you will need a donor car.

I did a search and i haven't found a list... Could you please say that list?:(

[pundit]

Hello guys!

I want to swap the M5 S38B36 engine to my 520 M50


Thank you!!!:D
I have a hole in the ground that I wish to turn into the Taj Mahal.
Can someone please tell me what materials I need and where I can get the best deal?

"...What am i going to need apart from the engine?..."
Oh not much really... just about everything 'cept for the ashtray and door handles...! ;)

If you want an M5... buy an M5!!

[Espen]

If you want an M5... buy an M5!!

He doenst want a M5, he want to rebuild his 520 ;)

Here in Norway a M5 e34 costs about 3 or 4 times more than bying a m5 in for example germany. Many people here buys a german m5, strip their 525/520 ENTIRELY, so thats its just the body left, then the move one part after the other from the m5 over to the 520. That way they would have a "m5" that is legal in this country, the authorities in Norway have no problem to "accept" this rebuild if all parts are from a m5.

[Jon K]

I agree with brandon you need an entire M5 parts car to make it even worthwhile.

[genphreak]

I agree with brandon you need an entire M5 parts car to make it even worthwhile.The problem here is recurring, it is simply that most people don't get the reason why M-cars justify the premium BMW charges and subsequent owners charge; Part of this is that an M-car has far less parts common to other BMWs than it looks. All these non-common parts are 2-10x more expensive at the factory, let alone if you have to buy replacements.

In any such 'swap' a lot of things are too worn or old to reuse which is a key problem I see in the initial math that people apply.

I spend enough on the 'common' parts to know this... :( nick

[Brandon J]

I agree. The other problem is that people don't do a research. It isn't a get a list of parts and torque values and swap. It is learning about basic swaps, wiring diagrams, compatibility issues with many different things, etc.etc. I eally hate it when someone says, "what else do I need besides the engine." Ummm, tranny, corssbrace, driveshaft, and a thousand little things.

Again, so when people search, I did a swap b/c there was a rolled over e34 M5. I obtained the major parts at a cost that rivaled an S50 swap.

Scott H did a 535 swap into a 525iT M50. He took everything, I mean everything. However, he bought many many parts that needed replacement b/c of wear or age. That's a great accomplishment in itself.

That's why I STRESS!!!!! doing a S50 or S52 swap into any M50tu equipped e34. All you really need are gaskets, M3 performance chip, and perhaps new rubber engine mounts. Everything else is there. All the externals of the M50tu bolt right into place of the S50 and the M50tu externals and vanos can be used in the S52. Obvioulsy you will have to use the M50tu oil pump and oil pan, but you already knew to buy a new oil pump while the engine is out anyways;)

OK, here is the complest list for an M5 S38 swap into a normal e34.....
1) Complete donor car
2) the etk
3) patience, as some parts can take a few weeks to come in
4) knowledge in wiring
5) extra money to replace lots of wear and old parts
6) either a custom driveshaft to fit smaller case diffs or need the M5 rear subframe
7) the brakes and suspension better be upgraded
8) don't forget to upgrade the wheels too
9) forget the instrument cluster of the M5, unless you want to spend hours and hours to make the temp gauge work and then, try to make the tach work....recoding of the plug can help the tach, but no the oil temp
10) ooops, you will find some more parts to replace in a few months
11) daignose any broken or bent parts if the M5 was in an accident
12) patience and time


Good Luck.

The problem here is recurring, it is simply that most people don't get the reason why M-cars justify the premium BMW charges and subsequent owners charge; Part of this is that an M-car has far less parts common to other BMWs than it looks. All these non-common parts are 2-10x more expensive at the factory, let alone if you have to buy replacements.

In any such 'swap' a lot of things are too worn or old to reuse which is a key problem I see in the initial math that people apply.

I spend enough on the 'common' parts to know this... :( nick

[bfd]

One thing that most of you all seem to forget is that the E34 M5 was actually a car that was hand-built at the factory. So, even if you can find a "donor" car, it will never the same as the one built by BMW Motorsport.

Now in some countries it may be *cheaper* to actually buy a used M5 and transfer parts to a 516 or 520. Still, it will NEVER BE A REAL M5.

I say if you got the $$$$$ and time to do it, go for it. Otherwise, the real bargain would be to JUST BUY A REAL M5.

[Jon K]

Well if an M5 is hand built, and you take its guts out and put it in another E34 shell... you're pretty much doing what they did to the M5.

I agree with Brandon, S50 or S52 swap is so easy in comparison. Another thing people forget is just force inducing their M50 or M30. Screw the swaps build a turbo kit for less money and be faster.

[Brandon J]

While I agree, I have to say that the direction of this thread was to know about swapping because of a particular situation, being that owning an e34 M5 is much much more expensive that putting in the work for a swap. So in his case, it might work out better. Again, my situation worked out better. Better b/c of price and better b/c a lot of the wear parts were changed. So, if done well, and understanding that higher initial cost is probably saving in the long run, then yeah it can be cost effective rather than buying any e34 M5 where the rear accumulators need to be changed, bushings, refresh the engine, tranny rebuild, etc. etc. There are bargains out there, but a lot of the well taken care of M5s do cost a lot more.

I guess I must stress the importance of planning, planning, planning. That can save a lot of money, headaches, and time. Scott H, the acountant that he is, did a whole spreadsheet of every part he would need for his 535i swap and rebuild into the touring. Alongside with the etk, and microfiches, it worked very very well. He did his homework ahead of time. A lot of homework.

Now that's opening up can of worms when doing paper and html arguments about original M5. I know a lot of e34 M5 guys and they have changed suspensions, brakes, sways, chip, reapinted, repaired bumpers, changed bushings, etc. So that changes the originality of it too. However, the spirit is different on a non M. Just like the old reatorations of the muscle cars, the spirit of the chassis and chassis number while everything else is changed. Not better, not worse, just a different tast that is also very sweet.

I think 1 in how many thousands of swaps are made to duplicate the original. So, that isn't the real issue. Now it is cool to make hybrids like mine, or Scott H's 535iT, or Drew's 540iT 6spd. All of this was done for the performance aspect and the bragging rights of a one-off car. Even more rare than an M. ;) That is sweet too. I have a sweet tooth.

There are a lot of die hard e34 M5 guys out there who think the original is the best. That is perfectly ok because it is a great car in stock form. No doubt about that.

However, many people are now rebuilding their engines and trannies so those aren't done at ///M, and those actually get better parts than supplied orginally by M. Such as pistons, cam gears, chain tensioners, cams, shift levers, synchros, fluid, gaskets, etc.

I like my hand built hybrid a lot. Haha. Things that I changed/already had on the car before/after the swap that I would have changed on an M5 whether performance or wear items are, the shocks/springs, sways, brakes, bushings, perhaps change diff if M5 supplied with he 3.73, radiator, hoses, belts, engine mounts, tranny mounts, exhaust (rust), O2 sensor, over flow bottle, thermostat, water pump, timing chain tensioner, got an engine rebuild, new oil pump/chain/guides, gaskets, spark plugs every 12-15k miles, cam gears, chip, and more. I didn't mention the tranny and its seals too.

I want to give an idea of some of the common things that are changed on an original e34 M5 or when doing a swap. There may be more questions than answers here, but at least it gives a better idea to everyone else what is invloved. Now this will be in the search results, lol.



One thing that most of you all seem to forget is that the E34 M5 was actually a car that was hand-built at the factory. So, even if you can find a "donor" car, it will never the same as the one built by BMW Motorsport.

Now in some countries it may be *cheaper* to actually buy a used M5 and transfer parts to a 516 or 520. Still, it will NEVER BE A REAL M5.

I say if you got the $$$$$ and time to do it, go for it. Otherwise, the real bargain would be to JUST BUY A REAL M5.

[Brandon J]

That is another good route. Forced induction. I really like the Eurosport twin screw kit for the S50 and S52. Now do that in a wagon!!!!! I think that pulling those numbers with all that torque down low is too much for the e36 chassis and rear subframe to handle. However, the e34 is beffier and can handle the extra power and use that extra torque. Oh baby, I keep on daydreaming about n e34 525iT with S52 swap and twin screw just out pulling an e39 M5 with Dinan mods. Hehehehe and still able to tame the power for handling. That's what I like about the twin screw as it is so similar to the stock curves...just higher up, is predictable, and good torque even at idle for our heavy sedans.

hehe, so a project done in stages. Engine/tranny swap. Suspension/brakes. Then twin screw. Oh baby.


Well if an M5 is hand built, and you take its guts out and put it in another E34 shell... you're pretty much doing what they did to the M5.

I agree with Brandon, S50 or S52 swap is so easy in comparison. Another thing people forget is just force inducing their M50 or M30. Screw the swaps build a turbo kit for less money and be faster.

[Kalevera]

Scott, not to bust your balls, but that's not entirely true.

Most early E32/E34 cars have the same pedal cluster -- manual or automatic -- and factory auto cars have the appropriate spring perch for manual conversion. I don't know when the cutoff date was, but I know that practically all 88/89/90 E32/E34 cars have the same pedal boxes.


Best, whit

[Scott H]

Otherwise I don't know what you are referring to. My 1992 525iT did not have the appropriate pedal box, and neither did Don Gale's 735 to accomodate the clutch helper spring. He had the tab welded in, and I ordered the pedal box from BMW which is now a universal replacement fitment under one part number (which is why you only see one p/n in the ETK under all models now 35 11 1 159 647). We discover later that colamgr's car is a 5-spd anyway, so it does not matter, but if it were and auto, and it being a 1991, it just may have had a pedal box without the tab for the clutch helper spring.


Scott, not to bust your balls, but that's not entirely true.

Most early E32/E34 cars have the same pedal cluster -- manual or automatic -- and factory auto cars have the appropriate spring perch for manual conversion. I don't know when the cutoff date was, but I know that practically all 88/89/90 E32/E34 cars have the same pedal boxes.


Best, whit

[Elekta]

I am currently looking for a donor M5 with black interior for my 530iT wagon, so I know I will have even more extras to buy converting a pig V8 engine bay to a inline 6er....

of course I could just say **** it and have this bizzatch sent over.

http://www.euromcars.com/92m5t/m5t-2.jpg
http://www.euromcars.com/92m5t/

92M5T....a brave little vintage...double roof but no racks....wild onya