Tyre wear and bad judder from steering wheel

[shuriken]

Front tyres outer wear and rear tyres inner wear, all in about 12k miles. Front judders baddly at 50 mph, and if you hit a bump in the road then the wheel is unholdable almost like the front is violantly wobbling. This has been like this for about 2.5 years(!) so changed wheels last year. One on from old owner were BBS deep dish 16" 8.5j's with 245/45/16 tyres. New wheels are 18" 8.5js with 235/45's. have inserts to center the wheels too. get tracking done seems ok for a few miles and goes back to old ways again. Suspension is lowered with with standard dampers all new all round and new shock mounts at rear. fronts I was told is all ok.
This has been lifted from my introducion posting, managed to hi-jack my own post?!
Car has had this problem for a few years and it has passed it's MOT(UK yearly road worthy test) Every year, with minor work needing to be done. Even BMW say that everything is fine underneath incl steering box. I'm just getting sick of putting money at this problem without ant results and nobody any the wiser.:( Of the owners who have gone the lowering and big wheel route what did you do, was anything else done as well, and if so do I need to do it? The car is our family car and my work car too, so no "Pimp My ride" too much please.lol

[joshua43214]

Inner tire wear is normal on a car if it is lowered enough. The front judder is another mater.

There are a number of things that can cause this ranging from bad sway bar links to excessive toe out. verify that all the suspension parts are good, pay special attention to the tie rods. If every thing is good, have the alignment checked.

[saj3n]

Inner tire wear is normal on a car if it is lowered enough. The front judder is another mater.

There are a number of things that can cause this ranging from bad sway bar links to excessive toe out. verify that all the suspension parts are good, pay special attention to the tie rods. If every thing is good, have the alignment checked.

thrust arms

[Jehu]

:( I have the 50 MPH shudder too. Its a 1995 540. it had Rondell 58 17x8 1/2 inch all around.The front tires are new as are tie rod ends and rear sway bar bushing.None of that did a thing for the shudder. BMW Dealership just told me right rear wheel was bent and i had it trued yesterday.BMW dealership also said all my front end parts are tight.I have hubcenteric rings on the way and will look at the rear tires for uneven wear when i have the freshly trued wheel put back on this Saturday.Something tells me still none of this is going to do a thing to this 50 MPH shimmy.One shop mentioned upper caster arms and bushings. I haven't seen any part called by that name, do they mean control arms/thrust arms or are caster arms a different part?After i get the aux water pump, fog lamp, drive belts and left bumper marker light all replaced next Monday i ought to, if what everyone says is correct, have a perfectly funcctioning e34 540 6 speed to enjoy for the summer.I have a feeeling out of all the shops and techs i've had this car in to, they have ALL missed the problem for whatever reason and the fix for the shimmy will still be with me.I can't drive it like this so I will find the problem. How you drove your car for 2 years like that is beyond me..

[joshua43214]

One shop mentioned upper caster arms and bushings. I haven't seen any part called by that name, do they mean control arms/thrust arms or are caster arms a different part?

Shops will ocassionaly refer to thrust arms as caster arm or leading arms.

Normaly the thrust arm will not give a judder at cruise unless they are really bad. They give lots of warning when brakeing.

If you are running a nonstock wheel with no centering ring, that will cause all sorts of problems

[romus]

I never had that until I did this in my signature pic last March. Since then I have exact same steering wheel behaviour you are describing and starts at exact same speed (80km/h) and only rarely it doesn't wobble. I also discovered bad inner wear on front tyres that definitelly wasn't there few months back.

[Phatty5BMW]

I know my moms 735 had the steering wheel wobble on bumps, check the front struts, could have a blown one.

Pat

[shuriken]

Thanks for the feed back guys, will start to get this checked out. Have to get new tyres now to gonna set me back £500+:( Let you know the out come.
Thanks.
John

[genphreak]

Just beware, any car that is running on rims larger than 8" will not drive like factory- they tend to follow lumps in the road due to the track and or tyres being wider.

I run 225mm wide tyres and notice it a lot more than the same car running 205s. Its just a fact of life in some respects. However (as on any car) if any suspension parts are worn you can notice it especially if you expect a decent ride quality.

Of course the effect the slack worn parts can deliver is amplified/aggrevated emnormously by having wide tyres too, not to mention correct wheel alignment becoming damn near impossible to keep... :) nick

[shuriken]

Just beware, any car that is running on rims larger than 8" will not drive like factory- they tend to follow lumps in the road due to the track and or tyres being wider.

I run 225mm wide tyres and notice it a lot more than the same car running 205s. Its just a fact of life in some respects. However (as on any car) if any suspension parts are worn you can notice it especially if you expect a decent ride quality.

Of course the effect the slack worn parts can deliver is amplified/aggrevated emnormously by having wide tyres too, not to mention correct wheel alignment becoming damn near impossible to keep... :) nick
Tram lining I don't mind, but this out of control front end thing is different. It's amplified if I hit a bump, to the point that front looks like it's visably shaking( don't know if thats the case though). Garages say can't see anything wrong though. UK E34's ran 225's as standard all round.I'm gona try the advise give here and look at these areas. Thanks again for the feed back.

[genphreak]

Tram lining I don't mind, but this out of control front end thing is different. It's amplified if I hit a bump, to the point that front looks like it's visably shaking( don't know if thats the case though). Garages say can't see anything wrong though. UK E34's ran 225's as standard all round.I'm gona try the advise give here and look at these areas. Thanks again for the feed back.I doubt if in the UK it is any different to here, in Oz we get the same cars but we tend to buy bigger engined ones. UK is mostly 520 and 525, better speced 525s might have them but anything with bottlecaps is 215 standard unless its a sporty metric rim where 220/240 is the go. We barely buy 520s and never had a 518. AFAIK 225s are only factory fitment on the sportier alloy rims (may only be 525 and up). That said some people fit 225s to bottle caps but that makes them a bit too wide for the rim- and increases consumption, road noise and tram-lining.

Thrust arm bushings are common but tie-rods more so perhaps they are not testing well enough. Sometimes a joint can appear okay but run loose on the road as the pressures are higher than a pry-bar can manage if in the wrong place... Also many don't ever change the lower control arm bushings and these are hard to fault on a hoist. Mine passed expert inspections but caused a really bad wobble in the wheel but only under brakes downhill at high speed. These are all usual cuprits, but check the steering box (using a helper) with the car on ramps perhaps so you can see where any slack is coming from. The bushings are usually cause braking problems as Joshua said- so tie rods, steering box and ball joints are what I'd be looking underneath the car. :) Nick

[shuriken]

Thrust arm bushings are common but tie-rods more so perhaps they are not testing well enough. Sometimes a joint can appear okay but run loose on the road as the pressures are higher than a pry-bar can manage if in the wrong place... Also many don't ever change the lower control arm bushings and these are hard to fault on a hoist. Mine passed expert inspections but caused a really bad wobble in the wheel but only under brakes downhill at high speed. These are all usual cuprits, but check the steering box (using a helper) with the car on ramps perhaps so you can see where any slack is coming from. The bushings are usually cause braking problems as Joshua said- so tie rods, steering box and ball joints are what I'd be looking underneath the car. :) Nick
Cheers, you're a star. Will look at this asap.
thanks for the replys once again guys.

[Jehu]

Just thought i'd update this thread with some good news. I had the strong 50 MPH front end shimmy,the steering wheel would rock and the car seemed like it might dissintegrate..... I replaced the front tires first and that didn't fix it. Then i found a rear wheel was bent and i had that trued. I just drove it to the shop to have the trued wheel and tire reunited and remounted on my car, i had the stock spare on and the shimmy was the same approaching 50 MPH. I got four aluminum Hubcentric Rings from the Tire Exchange via FedEx yesterday,had the shop mount them when they put my wheel on and to the other three as well and NO SHIMMY! I was ecstatic and humbled. I dissed these things when i saw them thinking them too flimsy to do anything with the kinds of forces involved but the car went right up to and thru 50 MPH smooth as silk .Not sure if it will cure your issue but for $45.00 shipped in two days i might consider it unless you've found the problem elsewhere.

[shuriken]

I got four aluminum Hubcentric Rings from the Tire Exchange via FedEx yesterday,had the shop mount them when they put my wheel on and to the other three as well and NO SHIMMY! I was ecstatic and humbled. I dissed these things when i saw them thinking them too flimsy to do anything with the kinds of forces involved but the car went right up to and thru 50 MPH smooth as silk .Not sure if it will cure your issue but for $45.00 shipped in two days i might consider it unless you've found the problem elsewhere.
Was running my wheels without them at first, took the car to a BM athorised garage and he said that's what the problem was, checked out everything else too. This was last year now. got 4 hubcentric spacers to fit the gap (plastic ones) and the problem was ok for about 5 miles then the problems came back... I will try with the sujestions above and maybe gey some fresh hubsentric spacers too.
John

[Jehu]

aaaaghhhhh... i didn't drive it that far yet, I wanted the Policarbonate ones but all they had were aluminium i'll update after i drive it to the dealership Monday, that's about a 25 mile round trip. If they hold out it may be the plastic once just get smooshed.As pliable as aluminium is it may be a tad more able to withstand the forces and remain consistant....I like it!