Couldn't fing Mobil 1 0-40, so went with.....

[Dave M]

5-50.

Since the M50 was rebuilt, I've put >2000km on it, varying engine speed and load (driving it pretty hard on occasion ;) ). As I'm about to put @ 5000 highway km on it, I figured it was time to step up and purchase my first barrel of synthetic.

Any gripes about the grade? Vehicle only gets driven from April to November.

I'm looking forward to spending a few quality hours behind the wheel and seeing the mountains again. Oh, and spending some time with my wife too.

Dave M

[SharkmanBMW]

I waited and checked back time and again at Crappy Tire (aka Canadian Tire), but they just kept saying "it's on order" scratch head a bit.... "we've been waiting a long time".
Dingbats.

I used Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40

[Dave M]

Do they normally stock it in Montreal? I have yet to see it in Ontario or BC.

Oh well,

Dave M

[ryan roopnarine]

they have that nice esso xd 0w30 that the people on bobistheoilguy.com seem enamored about. it's not like bmw wouldn't use 5w30 syn to do do an oil change on your "old" m50. i guess that april-november in BC doesn't have that cold of morning temps (or does it?) i'm guessing that the oil you used is castrol syntec?

[SharkmanBMW]

Do they normally stock it in Montreal? I have yet to see it in Ontario or BC.

Oh well,

Dave M


There is one location that usually has it, but the last 3 times I went, the shelf was empty.
The "in stock by" date had passed in their computers as well.

My new indy / race-a-holic mechanic told me that his Motul far exceeds Mobil 1 anyways...?!

[Bill R.]

its not available here in the US. So i use 0w40 instead.
Note: How expensive is the 5w50 in Canada?





5-50.

Since the M50 was rebuilt, I've put >2000km on it, varying engine speed and load (driving it pretty hard on occasion ;) ). As I'm about to put @ 5000 highway km on it, I figured it was time to step up and purchase my first barrel of synthetic.

Any gripes about the grade? Vehicle only gets driven from April to November.

I'm looking forward to spending a few quality hours behind the wheel and seeing the mountains again. Oh, and spending some time with my wife too.

Dave M

[SharkmanBMW]

its not available here in the US. So i use 0w40 instead.
Note: How expensive is the 5w50 in Canada?



For the record, the 0w40 is 8.99 CAD when available, same price as the other grades of M1. I have never noticed 5w50 though.

[nuclearfusion]

CanTire here in Vancouver seems to have as much Mobil 1 5W50 as you'd want to buy, pretty well all the time.

Enjoy!

Fusion

p.s. - I've always been a bit suspicious of the 0 weight oils. I stay away from them in favour of the 5W-xx options. 5W-40 seems very good for the M30 engines.

[swenpro]

and I would have loved to have found a synthetic Mobil 1 5w40 or 5w50, but neither were to be found... apparently the stores around me only stock the likes of 0w40, 5w30, and 15w50 in Mobil 1, so I went with the 0w40...

[Qube]

For the record, the 0w40 is 8.99 CAD when available, same price as the other grades of M1. I have never noticed 5w50 though.

WalMart usually has them for a little over $7, and the jug goes on sale every once in a while.

[Espen]

I just did an oilchange and went from penzoil 5W30 to Castrol Edge 0W40.

I must say that i got much more noise and valve ticking now. In my climate the temperature changes from down to -25 in winter and +27 in summer, is there an oil i can use all year?

Or should I use 0W40 oils in winter and 5Wxx oils in summer?

[t_marat]

What a difference between 1W-40 and 0W-40? I thought 0W-40 should be more desirable (higher quality) as it has lower freezing temp, rest being the same.

[Espen]

Does a 1W40 exist?

thought there only was intervalls of 5, like 0,5,10,15,20 and so on.

[t_marat]

New grade of oil, invented by me :)

Sorry, mistake. Meant to say 5W-40

[BillionPa]

redline 10W30 and 5W40 have the same pour point, the 5 and 10 part is the viscosity range at 40C (not freezing!!!)

[Espen]

redline 10W30 and 5W40 have the same pour point, the 5 and 10 part is the viscosity range at 40C (not freezing!!!)

In my climate the temperature changes from down to -25 in winter and +27 in summer, is there an oil i can use all year?

Or should I use 0W40 oils in winter and 5Wxx oils in summer?

[t_marat]

Any difference why a 5w-40 would be more desirable that 0w-40?

[Espen]

A 5w50 is better for hotter climates, the 0w40 gives you better protection in cold winters.

I`ve been told that the 0w40 is too thin for summer use, so that it will cause a very low oil pressure..

I am experiencing valve rattle after i went from 5w30 to 0w40.

Thats why I am asking.

[t_marat]

currently its +30C (+86F). From time to time it goes as high as +45C (113F).
is 0w-40 suitable for this climate?

[Dave M]

its not available here in the US. So i use 0w40 instead.
Note: How expensive is the 5w50 in Canada?

The M 5-50 was $38 CAN or @ $34 USD for 4.4L.

Judging by your (and other) responses, this grade should be fine.

Thanks All

Dave M

[Ausmpower]

currently its +30C (+86F). From time to time it goes as high as +45C (113F).
is 0w-40 suitable for this climate?

In a word 'NO'!

I use castrol edge 10w-50 all year here (Aus) temps range from 1-2c upto 40+c.

That 0-40 could cost you a head rebuild if used in hot climates, oil pressure at idle when hot will be near on 0 psi! Bad news for the cam and HLA's.

[t_marat]

In a word 'NO'!

I use castrol edge 10w-50 all year here (Aus) temps range from 1-2c upto 40+c.

That 0-40 could cost you a head rebuild if used in hot climates, oil pressure at idle when hot will be near on 0 psi! Bad news for the cam and HLA's.
Are you serious about it? I don't get any warning about a oil pressure.
After the engine is fully warmed up and it is really hot, at 2500rpm and higher it sounds like Woooooo. I was thinking this is because the fan clutch is engaging. Right?

[Ausmpower]

The oil light comes on at around 5 psi (at the filter) but the top end will be at 0 psi before then!

The noise you mention is indeed the fan clutch winding the fan up to speed.

Worst case scenario: 0w-40, 40C day, peak hour traffic crawling along, engine at or near idle for long periods = by, by hydraulic lash adjusters.

Run a 10w-40 at least.

[pundit]

I would love to be able to use mobil 1 5w50, unfortunately its not available here in the US. So i use 0w40 instead.
Note: How expensive is the 5w50 in Canada?
It seems odd that 5w-50 is not available in the U.S.
I've been buying Mobil 1 5w-50 here in Oz for the last year.
At $64.00 AUD (about $50.00 USD for 5 litres) it's actually $15.00 per 5 litres cheaper than Mobil 1 0w-40.

As the temp over here in my neck of the woods rarely gets below 0 degrees celcius, and often up to 40 celcius in summer I use it all year round.

[ryan roopnarine]

In a word 'NO'!


That 0-40 could cost you a head rebuild if used in hot climates, oil pressure at idle when hot will be near on 0 psi! Bad news for the cam and HLA's.

i try not to engage people that say something contrary to me on this board, but...
what the hell are you talking about?
the synthetic technology that allows you to have a 45 split (between 5 and 50) isn't robust enough to entertain a 40 split (0 and 40) but the 5 somehow makes things all better?

[Ausmpower]

i try not to engage people that say something contrary to me on this board, but...
what the hell are you talking about?
the synthetic technology that allows you to have a 45 split (between 5 and 50) isn't robust enough to entertain a 40 split (0 and 40) but the 5 somehow makes things all better?

At IDLE it makes all the difference to the cam and valve train!!

Read and understand what I wrote before jumping on me mate!

0w-XX in hot climates kills valve gear, don't take my educated word for it. I've seen it time and time again, collapsed HLA's caused by low viscosity 'winter' oils (Not just BM's). What you gain in rapid flow at startup costs you oil pressure at idle when hot.


Like I said don't take my word for it, try testing it out yourself with any car with an oil pressure gauge. Try 5-50 then 0-40 and report back here with your hot idle oil pressure readings.

I'll bet my car on the fact that the 5-50 will hold a much higher oil pressure at idle hot than the 0-40!

Anyone in AUS (east coast) remember the class action taken against Mobil for Mobil 1 induced engine failures in the early 90's? COKE anyone!
The synthetic friction modifiers were breaking down and burning in several makes and models of vehicles due to high underbonnet temps, the crud left behind ate cams, bigend and rod bearings cases were reported of engine failure in a little as 1000Km.

I'll stick with Castrol Edge or OEM Softec thanks!....

[ryan roopnarine]

if 5w offers such an increase in oil pressure, then why not 10 or 15 or even 20w? why not just skip synthetic altogether and put in conventional SH grade 20w50? that will yield a crapload more oil pressure at idle than any syn. none of those things is a tradeoff that i'd be willing to make, and i see no indication to note that my car is suffering for it.

i drive about 1k miles a week right now (alternating daily between 100% stop and go city/100% highway) everyday of the week. that's 160km/day in stop and go city traffic, a/c on, on the days when i'm city driving. the only vehicles that could possibly drive more are livery cabs). my valve cover comes off once a year. my valvetrain looks better than good, save for the conventional oil varnish from the PO. i've only had a sporadic tick once about a year ago, and a leave in oil cleaner stopped it with one application. everyone here gets ticks despite more than adequate oil service, and they use 5w/10w oils no metal comes out in my crankcase oil. my ambient temperature is above 90f/~30C from march until early november, at which time it can go down to about 30F/0C. my only oil pressure issues so far had to deal with a bad $4 oil pressure sensor.

my car isn't abused or broken, so i'll be staying with my fat german castrol 0w30 (aka castrol SLX for people in eurasia) or 15w40 diesel (when i know i'll be diluting my oil with 100% city driving and need to change it every 3k miles/5k km).

[Ausmpower]

Low temp flow v high temp stability is a catch 22, it always has been.

Newer engines with smaller design clearances can survive on thinner oils (many are spec'd for 0w30 these days from new) but older engines are not designed for these types of oils.

The reverse is also true, you can have HLA problems from using too thick an oil too, the HLA's won't bleed (pump up). Mainly Ford/Mazda.

Valvetrain damage resulting from collapsed lash adjusters is a fact in many of the older hydraulic lash adjusting valvetrains (for arguments sake say late 80's to mid 90's and pick any manufacturer). The damage is caused by low or 0 oil pressure (at the head) at IDLE (IE stopped in traffic) with the engine at normal operating temp.

Back to BMW:
There have been tsb's regarding problems with VANOS equipped engines using too low a viscosity oil. The high volume, high pressure (200psi in some cases) needed to operate the system is reduced when using low viscosity oils causing vanos unit failure and cam wear issues.

The M50 has issues with collapsing HLA's through oil starvation.
The M30 has issues with cam lobe wear and cam bearing siezure.

Ford Australia had similar issues with the lash caps in the 3.9 & 4.0 6cyl in the EA- ED Falcons (some cars having 3 sets fitted under warranty). Their issue was mech's using too thick an oil (15w-50 from memory).

[Bill R.]

noticed this years ago that we couldn't get it and Quentin and Geoff from Aus. had mentioned that they used it.




It seems odd that 5w-50 is not available in the U.S.
I've been buying Mobil 1 5w-50 here in Oz for the last year.
At $64.00 AUD (about $50.00 USD for 5 litres) it's actually $15.00 per 5 litres cheaper than Mobil 1 0w-40.

As the temp over here in my neck of the woods rarely gets below 0 degrees celcius, and often up to 40 celcius in summer I use it all year round.

[Espen]

Low temp flow v high temp stability is a catch 22, it always has been.

Newer engines with smaller design clearances can survive on thinner oils (many are spec'd for 0w30 these days from new) but older engines are not designed for these types of oils.

The reverse is also true, you can have HLA problems from using too thick an oil too, the HLA's won't bleed (pump up). Mainly Ford/Mazda.

Valvetrain damage resulting from collapsed lash adjusters is a fact in many of the older hydraulic lash adjusting valvetrains (for arguments sake say late 80's to mid 90's and pick any manufacturer). The damage is caused by low or 0 oil pressure (at the head) at IDLE (IE stopped in traffic) with the engine at normal operating temp.

Back to BMW:
There have been tsb's regarding problems with VANOS equipped engines using too low a viscosity oil. The high volume, high pressure (200psi in some cases) needed to operate the system is reduced when using low viscosity oils causing vanos unit failure and cam wear issues.

The M50 has issues with collapsing HLA's through oil starvation.
The M30 has issues with cam lobe wear and cam bearing siezure.

Ford Australia had similar issues with the lash caps in the 3.9 & 4.0 6cyl in the EA- ED Falcons (some cars having 3 sets fitted under warranty). Their issue was mech's using too thick an oil (15w-50 from memory).


Looks like you know alot about this stuff.

What oil would you recommend for my m50b25 in my climate?
may-september: 0 to +30 C
november- april +10 to -25

If its not possible to get an allaround oil i would be ok to change to a thicker summer oil.

Currently driving with 0W40 Castrol edge. (would 15w50 castrol edge be to thick for summer here?)

[ryan roopnarine]

[QUOTE=Ausmpower]Low temp flow v high temp stability is a catch 22, it always has been.

Newer engines with smaller design clearances can survive on thinner oils (many are spec'd for 0w30 these days from new) but older engines are not designed for these types of oils.

The M50 has issues with collapsing HLA's through oil starvation.
The M30 has issues with cam lobe wear and cam bearing siezure.

QUOTE]


ok, now. i don't own an m30 but i think you are being disingenuous in your suggestion that the m30's cam problems had anything to do with grade of oil when its oil dispersing hardware in the head is known for coming loose. the mitsubishi tsb on diagnosing HLA noise and issues looks exactly the same as the bmw one for the m50, and neither suggest using thicker oil to solve the problem. in north america since 01/2002 all ford gas vehicles made since 1991 were advised to use 5w20 oil, no matter what the original oil grade recommendation was. i don't think that anyone in 1990 (or earlier) anticipated the usage of 5w20 in 2002, so the engines couldn't have possibly been designed for it. since the discontinuation of the chevy caprice,the primary livery and police vehicle in north america has been the ford crown victoria with a relatively old technology dohc v8 (4.6l putting out 225 hp or so). anybody in fleet service correct me if i'm wrong, but there are no widespread reports of engines on these cars breaking because of oil choice. all these vehicles tend to do is sit,and idle, and run an air conditioner. even if some fleets disregarded the retroactive 5w20 recommendation, since about 2000 (2002 for certain), 5w20 would be the only way to preserve warranty on such vehicles, so SOMEBODY must be running it. i'm going to have to believe, for the time being , that the reluctance to run 0w is more precautionary/arbitrary than necessary.

[Dave M]

[QUOTE=Ausmpower]Low temp flow v high temp stability is a catch 22, it always has been.

Newer engines with smaller design clearances can survive on thinner oils (many are spec'd for 0w30 these days from new) but older engines are not designed for these types of oils.

The M50 has issues with collapsing HLA's through oil starvation.
The M30 has issues with cam lobe wear and cam bearing siezure.

QUOTE]


ok, now. i don't own an m30 but i think you are being disingenuous in your suggestion that the m30's cam problems had anything to do with grade of oil when its oil dispersing hardware in the head is known for coming loose. the mitsubishi tsb on diagnosing HLA noise and issues looks exactly the same as the bmw one for the m50, and neither suggest using thicker oil to solve the problem. in north america since 01/2002 all ford gas vehicles made since 1991 were advised to use 5w20 oil, no matter what the original oil grade recommendation was. i don't think that anyone in 1990 (or earlier) anticipated the usage of 5w20 in 2002, so the engines couldn't have possibly been designed for it. since the discontinuation of the chevy caprice,the primary livery and police vehicle in north america has been the ford crown victoria with a relatively old technology dohc v8 (4.6l putting out 225 hp or so). anybody in fleet service correct me if i'm wrong, but there are no widespread reports of engines on these cars breaking because of oil choice. all these vehicles tend to do is sit,and idle, and run an air conditioner. even if some fleets disregarded the retroactive 5w20 recommendation, since about 2000 (2002 for certain), 5w20 would be the only way to preserve warranty on such vehicles, so SOMEBODY must be running it. i'm going to have to believe, for the time being , that the reluctance to run 0w is more precautionary/arbitrary than necessary.

Woof Woof. Pull over bitch, I want your paws where I can see em. This is a sniff-down.

You guys and your oil ;)

Nice new sig pic Ryan,

Dave M

[BillionPa]

WHOA THERE!!!

a 0W40 and a 15W40 oil will have almost the SAME viscosity at engine operating temperature at idle, because the engine is at OPERATING TEMP!

infact, the kinematic viscosity for Belray 0W40 is higer at 100C than Amsoil 15W40.

the optimum high temp viscosity for an engine is the same in winter as it is in summer, however the low temp viscosity is not.

Redline 5W40 and 5W30 have different high and low temp viscosities, even though they are both 5WXX oils.

the 5W40 is thicker at cold than M1 10W30, and amsoil 5W30 HDD.

Castrol 5W50 is an excellent choice for the I6 engines above 3L.
I would still choose my oils based on the actual viscosities they have, the type of base oil they use, and the antiwear components, not just the viscosity "ranges" they fall in, which are HUGE ranges.

for my M60, i run 0W40 till april, then switch to 5W40 for the next 6 months.

2 changes per year at a 6000 mile interval.

if i had an M50, i wouldnt use 50wt oil, its too thick for the hydraulic adjusters.

my suggestion for an M50 (and i will probably get some flack for my suggestion) is 2/3 Redline 5W40 and 1/3 5W30 mixed. it balances out the lower and higher temp viscosites so they are more optimal to both low and high temperature flow.

[diamond777]

noooooooo. dont mix grades, that is for ****. i recommend 10 30 mobil 1 for winter and 15 50 for the summer. keep it simple gang and use your efforts for filters and other maintenance just my 2 cents

[BillionPa]

see i said i would get flack!

i dont recommend mixing grades with any oil except Redline's, specifically because the additive package is identical, and so is the base oil. the difference is the amount of viscosity index improvers, and the 2/3 1/3 mix balances them out to an almost ideal range for the M50.

Redline 5W40 is a bit too thick for that engine, and 5W30 a bit too thin.

different brands can use different additive packages, different base oils, different types of VIIs, some of which are incompatible.

if you dont want to mix..... Amsoil AME 15W40 has a LOWER low temp viscosity than Redline 5W40, same pour point (-45C) and a fairly optimal high temp viscosity. Mutol 300V 5W40 has a rather robust additive package, but i dont have viscosity figures and therefore wont make a recommendation for the M50.

[Espen]

Redline 5W40 is a bit too thick for that engine, and 5W30 a bit too thin.


How can that bee when they both have a 5w visc at cold?
Redline is way to expensive for me. I bought 8ltrs of Castrol edge and it cost me like 120$ I change my oil following my service indicator in the OBC, thats like every 3. month.

If I use 0W40 all year could I do any litteral dammage to my engine over long time? is it too thick in the winter? And too thin for the summer?

[BillionPa]

the 5W is a generic range of viscosities at operating temp, 5W specifies that the oil will flow at a minimum level at -35C, and have a maximum cranking viscosity at -30C.

at -30C and 40C, there are very different numbers at play, and you want to look at the kinematic viscosity levels to determine the thickness of the oil.

Redline 5W40 has a 40C viscosity of 94, but the 5W30 is 67.

Amsoil 15W40 AME has a LOWER 40C viscosity than Redline 5W40, but since it doesnt pump as well as redline unless its 10C warmer, it gets a 15W rating.

SAE tried to make it nice and easy for people to choose oil, by taking the 6 or so important viscosity factors and compressing it down to 2, but that rating doesnt give enough info to determine the "cold engine" viscosity of the oil.

most 0W40 oils are fine for the M50, which likes a "thick" 30wt or a "thin" 40wt oil.

if the environment you are in does NOT drop below freezing, then Redline 10W30 is actually the best viscosity match, flowing well at cold start, and not getting too thick at operating temp, while still providing the cam and bearing film strength of most dino 50wt oils, and most synthetic 40wt oils.

thats another number you never see, the high temp film strength.

Redline uses an ester basestock, so it has naturally high film strength (the same type of basestock is used in jet turbines).

synthetic hydrocarbon oils have better viscosity ranges than dino oil, and less unwanted debris and chemicals, but almost the same film strength, which isnt so great, just barely meeting SAE standards.

the SAE standard does specify minimum film strength for the high temp numbers, but most BMW drivers need more, not only because we want the motors to last longer, but because we tend to use the upper RPM band a bit more than your average driver.

Redline 10W30 oil has MORE film strength than the minimum required by 15W50 oils. what does that mean for you? You get the engine protection from a 50wt oil without the upper valvetrain starvation, because it flows like a 30wt. And not just any 30wt, but right in the dead center of the standardized viscosity range, which is rather impressive.

There are many different reasons to choose a specific oil, like the engines optimal flow levels, good wear protection, long term use, personal experience, price, etc...

and these need to be balanced well. almost any oil you buy will have an acceptable balance, but some oils are just far above the rest.

Redline and almost all ester based oils have high strength, low temp flow, excellent metal adhesion, and a high flash point.

but not all oils have a robust anti wear additive package, or BALANCED flow levels, or even clean base oil!

a lot of people shy from redline oils because they are so expensive (and they really arent if (http://www.myoilshop.com/AutoPrds.html) you know (http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/) where to look (http://www.soloperformance.com/ShoppingCart/tabid/22/BrandName/Red+Line/Default.aspx)), but so is having to replace your cam followers because of wear, or having crank bearings wear to nothing over 250K miles. redline has more calcium and a high TBN like amsoil does, and more anti wear additives for a gasoline engine oil than most of the companies out there, but not enough to damage catalytic converters.



....hopefully i didnt confuse anyone more than need be, its good to know the facts behind the numbers on the bottle, but understanding them will allow you to choose a better oil for your engine, that even at at additional expense will save you money in the long term, thanks to massively reduced engine wear, and longer drain intervals.

[rob101]

cool an oil argument, i needed something to read during quiet times at work
This will do nicely :p

[Ausmpower]

ok, now. i don't own an m30 but i think you are being disingenuous in your suggestion that the m30's cam problems had anything to do with grade of oil when its oil dispersing hardware in the head is known for coming loose

Actually if you got your facts straight, cam problems (Lobes wearing out) from loose oil feed pipe bolts are pretty rare on M30's now as most are using the newer bolts that are pre thread locked(or people are locktiting them during tappet adjustments) and don't loosen.

Low oil pressure at ide (and low engine speeds in traffic) caused through oil pump wear / thin out of OEM spec oil is causing more problems now. They are prone to galling the cam bearings on the front two journals due to lack of oil flow (They feed from the back journals forwards), and the oil spray pipe supply is fed from the journals so if the journals are running dry I can catagorically say the the rest of the valvetrain is running pretty dry too.

It's the same for all the manual tappet adjust BMW motors (M10, M20, M30 etc) as they're all running fairly high mileage now. Who has a noisy tappet type head then?? Go ask the e30 forum..... many are badly 'ticky'.

FYI: there is an oil gallery tapping point in the M30 head (inlet side at rear)just unscrew the plug install an oil pressure gauge and see where your cam oil feed pressure is..... My E12 M535I was around 5 psi @ the head (hot idle with 15w-50 Dino oil) whilst the bottom end was happy @ 25 psi.

[Ausmpower]

Redline 10W30 oil has MORE film strength than the minimum required by 15W50 oils. what does that mean for you? You get the engine protection from a 50wt oil without the upper valvetrain starvation, because it flows like a 30wt. And not just any 30wt, but right in the dead center of the standardized viscosity range, which is rather impressive.


EXACTLY!!

I love redline, I've run it in my Subaru Liberty engine , g/box and diffs for 5 years now. My E34 has redline ATF in the manual trans and light weight shockproof in the LSD.

The Redline 2 stroke oils are the shiznits too (I own a Suzi RGV) oh so clean burning!

[Bill R.]

the most common cause that i see is still the original banjo bolts backing out on the oil spray bar. Maybe here in the US we're backwards still compared to Aus. but i see at least 3 a year here in my little backwoods town. Thin out of any of these synthetic 0w40 oils is pure ********. If you check the allowable viscosity charts for bmw you'll see that the 0w40 mobil one far outperforms the mineral oil 10w30 and 5w40 which are approved. The VI index for the m1 is far far above that of mineral 5w40. All of which is a moot point anyway as I haven't seen a single engine failure that i can attribute to an oil viscosity problem in at least 20 years. Every failure i've seen can be pinned on other things such as oil starvation, abuse, neglect (try 50k miles on a honda civic with mineral oil and never a single oil change). Also i made it a point to look up the castrol 10w50 edge synthetic that you use. In Aus. there is no edge 10w50 according to castrol aus.
Here's another interesting reason why you don't want to use any higher viscosity oil than is needed to protect your engine. Check the horsepower numbers between the mobil one 0w40 and the Castrol type R (EDGE) At 5k rpm there's almost 9 horsepower difference on this motor tested. (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:op3ZWhV8KwkJ:www.performanceoilnews .com/oils_against_oils.shtml+mobil+one+0w40+analysis)

I also have searched through all of my TSB's up till the end of 2005 and i can't find any that blame too low a viscosity of oil as causing the hva problems. Since you have seen them , post them. They didn't show up here in the US.




(http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:op3ZWhV8KwkJ:www.performanceoilnews .com/oils_against_oils.shtml+mobil+one+0w40+analysis)



Actually if you got your facts straight, cam problems (Lobes wearing out) from loose oil feed pipe bolts are pretty rare on M30's now as most are using the newer bolts that are pre thread locked(or people are locktiting them during tappet adjustments) and don't loosen.

Low oil pressure at ide (and low engine speeds in traffic) caused through oil pump wear / thin out of OEM spec oil is causing more problems now. They are prone to galling the cam bearings on the front two journals due to lack of oil flow (They feed from the back journals forwards), and the oil spray pipe supply is fed from the journals so if the journals are running dry I can catagorically say the the rest of the valvetrain is running pretty dry too.

It's the same for all the manual tappet adjust BMW motors (M10, M20, M30 etc) as they're all running fairly high mileage now. Who has a noisy tappet type head then?? Go ask the e30 forum..... many are badly 'ticky'.

FYI: there is an oil gallery tapping point in the M30 head (inlet side at rear)just unscrew the plug install an oil pressure gauge and see where your cam oil feed pressure is..... My E12 M535I was around 5 psi @ the head (hot idle with 15w-50 Dino oil) whilst the bottom end was happy @ 25 psi.

[Ausmpower]

the most common cause that i see is still the original banjo bolts backing out on the oil spray bar.(Like I said MOST have been threadlocked by now (If the person doing the clearances had a clue)) Maybe here in the US we're backwards still compared to Aus. but i see at least 3 a year here in my little backwoods town. Thin out of any of these synthetic 0w40 oils is pure ******** (O.k so down under when oils are hot they thin out but up there they get thicker...thats weird?? Must be something to do with being 'down under'). If you check the allowable viscosity charts for bmw you'll see that the 0w40 mobil one far outperforms the mineral oil 10w30 and 5w40 which are approved (according to Mobil anyway)] . The VI(You mean KV) index for the m1 is far far above that of mineral 5w40 (Which API rating are you refering to? Sc? SH? SJ? SM?) . All of which is a moot point anyway as I haven't seen a single engine failure that i can attribute to an oil viscosity problem in at least 20 years. Every failure i've seen can be pinned on other things such as oil starvation(Because that only happens when the sump is dry.......NOT!), abuse, neglect (try 50k miles on a honda civic with mineral oil and never a single oil change (That's pretty normal for Japanese cars in JAPAN)). Also i made it a point to look up the castrol 10w50 edge synthetic that you use. In Aus. there is no edge 10w50 according to castrol aus.(You are correct I'm using the 10w-60 sorry my mistake!)



Oil starvation is caused by what?...... no oil pressure perhaps.

O.k I'll fix this oil thing once and for all:

MOBIL 1 IS THE WORLDS BEST OIL!!

And as far as posting any BMW internal TSB's keep dreaming mate!!

And as far as being a mechanic for xx years so what??? I'm sure you're great at your trade but You guys (Qualified mechanics) call US (dealer service) to diagnose YOUR problems over the phone so gimme a break!! I get those calls everyday!

We have over 150 years combined EXCLUSIVE Bmw experience at my dealer just in the parts dept. how about you?

Castrol TDS for Softec LL01 (current BMW OEM oil) (http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/t/TXT_Softec_LL01_B1567_02.pdf)

Castrol edge 10w-60 TDS (http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/EDGESport10W60_200601.pdf)

This is what the MOBIL website recomended for my 89 535i:

535i E34 Series, 3430cm³ M30 Eng. (1988-1993)

Crankcase

MOBIL 1 5W-50 or MOBIL SUPER HP 20W-50
Service Refill Capacity: 5.75* Litres

[Espen]

the 5W is a generic range of viscosities at operating temp, 5W specifies that the oil will flow at a minimum level at -35C, and have a maximum cranking viscosity at -30C.

at -30C and 40C, there are very different numbers at play, and you want to look at the kinematic viscosity levels to determine the thickness of the oil.

Redline 5W40 has a 40C viscosity of 94, but the 5W30 is 67.

Amsoil 15W40 AME has a LOWER 40C viscosity than Redline 5W40, but since it doesnt pump as well as redline unless its 10C warmer, it gets a 15W rating.

SAE tried to make it nice and easy for people to choose oil, by taking the 6 or so important viscosity factors and compressing it down to 2, but that rating doesnt give enough info to determine the "cold engine" viscosity of the oil.

most 0W40 oils are fine for the M50, which likes a "thick" 30wt or a "thin" 40wt oil.

if the environment you are in does NOT drop below freezing, then Redline 10W30 is actually the best viscosity match, flowing well at cold start, and not getting too thick at operating temp, while still providing the cam and bearing film strength of most dino 50wt oils, and most synthetic 40wt oils.

thats another number you never see, the high temp film strength.

Redline uses an ester basestock, so it has naturally high film strength (the same type of basestock is used in jet turbines).

synthetic hydrocarbon oils have better viscosity ranges than dino oil, and less unwanted debris and chemicals, but almost the same film strength, which isnt so great, just barely meeting SAE standards.

the SAE standard does specify minimum film strength for the high temp numbers, but most BMW drivers need more, not only because we want the motors to last longer, but because we tend to use the upper RPM band a bit more than your average driver.

Redline 10W30 oil has MORE film strength than the minimum required by 15W50 oils. what does that mean for you? You get the engine protection from a 50wt oil without the upper valvetrain starvation, because it flows like a 30wt. And not just any 30wt, but right in the dead center of the standardized viscosity range, which is rather impressive.

There are many different reasons to choose a specific oil, like the engines optimal flow levels, good wear protection, long term use, personal experience, price, etc...

and these need to be balanced well. almost any oil you buy will have an acceptable balance, but some oils are just far above the rest.

Redline and almost all ester based oils have high strength, low temp flow, excellent metal adhesion, and a high flash point.

but not all oils have a robust anti wear additive package, or BALANCED flow levels, or even clean base oil!

a lot of people shy from redline oils because they are so expensive (and they really arent if (http://www.myoilshop.com/AutoPrds.html) you know (http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/) where to look (http://www.soloperformance.com/ShoppingCart/tabid/22/BrandName/Red+Line/Default.aspx)), but so is having to replace your cam followers because of wear, or having crank bearings wear to nothing over 250K miles. redline has more calcium and a high TBN like amsoil does, and more anti wear additives for a gasoline engine oil than most of the companies out there, but not enough to damage catalytic converters.



....hopefully i didnt confuse anyone more than need be, its good to know the facts behind the numbers on the bottle, but understanding them will allow you to choose a better oil for your engine, that even at at additional expense will save you money in the long term, thanks to massively reduced engine wear, and longer drain intervals.

Well that post did actually confuse me even more.
As posted 3 times allready in this thread my climate goes from about 0 to +30 C in summer and 0 to -25 in winter.

I really just want a suggestion on wich (two?) oil types ill have to use.

[Ausmpower]

Simple read your owners manual! (And sorry for the highjack!)

[t_marat]

Sorry, its me, I started all this..
:(

[BillionPa]

to make it simple Espen: Redline 5W30, approved viscosity at crank for -30C, approved for max flow in the engine at 40C, approved for max engine protection at 100C and beyond.

if you went down below -30 often during the winter season, i would recommend a 0wt oil, but you should be ok with 5W30 to change once a year if you keep it under 10K miles and dont make lots of short trips, or have lots of "spirited" driving. most of us would need 2 changes per year, and a few of us who autocross often may want 3.

almost all oils by Amsoil and M1 have very low pour points and will meet the viscosity levels needed for cold, but at hot the film strength can only be enhanced by using higher viscosity oils, which isnt always the best option.

[Bill R.]

30 years each.... wow, in your pictures you're all so well preserved for your ages.. Better tell the people responsible for your website that they forgot to put a 1 in front of that 50... you seem to have a problem with numbers , 10w50 castrol instead of 10w60.. some one with your tremendous experience i would think would be aware of what viscosity oil they were running and the 40weight portion of mobile one 0w40 is calculated at 100C or 212F which is roughly the normal operating temperature of the oil. Edit, and i don't call the local dealer for advice. They don't seem interested in working on the older cars such as the e34. I was going to send them a e31 with a dash cluster problem and they told me they no longer have any people who can work on it.They have all retired or left...so its pretty much useless to contact the local dealers for info. The independents seem to have most of the information on the older cars.




Oil starvation is caused by what?...... no oil pressure perhaps.

O.k I'll fix this oil thing once and for all:

MOBIL 1 IS THE WORLDS BEST OIL!!

And as far as posting any BMW internal TSB's keep dreaming mate!!

And as far as being a mechanic for xx years so what??? I'm sure you're great at your trade but You guys (Qualified mechanics) call US (dealer service) to diagnose YOUR problems over the phone so gimme a break!! I get those calls everyday!

We have over 150 years combined EXCLUSIVE Bmw experience at my dealer just in the parts dept. how about you?

Castrol TDS for Softec LL01 (current BMW OEM oil) (http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/t/TXT_Softec_LL01_B1567_02.pdf)

Castrol edge 10w-60 TDS (http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/EDGESport10W60_200601.pdf)

This is what the MOBIL website recomended for my 89 535i:

535i E34 Series, 3430cm³ M30 Eng. (1988-1993)

Crankcase

MOBIL 1 5W-50 or MOBIL SUPER HP 20W-50
Service Refill Capacity: 5.75* Litres

[Scott H]

teach you this? Your not supposed to dress a headgasket with anything on any of these engines. 50 years of experience only goes so far when you have 1 guy who has been around for 30 years and 4 other who have each been around for only 5 years a piece.


.....P.s hylomar is great for head gaskets......

Also, I tried almost every grade of Mobil 1 in my 145k mile M30 when it was in my 89 535i sedan. Nothing helped my problem with low oil pressure at idle. I ran 15w50 in the summer and 0w40 in the winter yielding oil pressures just above 8psi at idle when the oil was running at full operating temp (~210F). I had gauges on everything since I was specifically monitoring for this issue. The differences in VI between all grades, at the operating temps we run at with these engines, will not yield live or die differences in psi at the top of the head.

My oil pressure issue was due to one thing, and one thing only....a worn pump. Our indy in Chicago (where there is a large population of olders BMWs and M30s....and he sees a lot of these), still cracks open engines that have no treatment (wire ties or loctite) on the banjo bolts for the oil spray bar.

I'd say your experience that oil grade choice is the majority factor in top end wear on the M30 is not accurate.



We have over 150 years combined EXCLUSIVE Bmw experience at my dealer just in the parts dept. how about you?

[31Hertz]

I dunno about headgaskets, but the Bentley says to use Hylomar on the Valve cover gasket(s) at the corners over the timing chain cover... This was for the M60. I did not read about the M30 or M50.

[SharkmanBMW]

EXACTLY!!

I love redline, I've run it in my Subaru Liberty engine , g/box and diffs for 5 years now. My E34 has redline ATF in the manual trans and light weight shockproof in the LSD.

The Redline 2 stroke oils are the shiznits too (I own a Suzi RGV) oh so clean burning!


My e46 has Redline in every orifice but the engine! Next oil change though, I may switch it over as well.
It is worth the cost to protect the investment.
Plus, I have a hard time finding Mobil1 , so I have never had the chance to actually try it.

[BillionPa]

hard time finding M1???? its fricken everywhere here.

it IS worth the cost to get redline, and that cost isnt very high.

my car uses 8 quarts of oil, and thats $70 for oil, $10 for a filter, and $0.50 for a new crush ring, good for 6-12K miles depending on how i drive, about $1 every hundred miles.

M1 has lower amounts of anti wear and extreme pressure additives, and also lower film strength at the same viscosity as a Redline oil will. also, i was looking at microscope scans of M1 oils, and most of em look rather filthy, while the Redline oils were absolutely spotless. Mobile1 MX4T motorcycle oil however is one of the cleanest oils i have ever seen.

[Bill R.]

that has an actual documented wear test other than mobil. I don't know how many of your remember when mobil had it on their website, it was five years ago though. The mobil one million mile test where they took a new bmw and ran it for 1 million miles then disassembled it and measured how much wear had occurred. Keep in mind that this was 5w30 mobil one , befor e they even had the much better 0w40
I had to use the wayback machine to find mobils original post's and i still can't find the really complete one that had many many photos and other documentation verifying the tests Here's the wayback machine link to it though
(http://web.archive.org/web/20001020171734/http://www.mobil1-motorsport.com/products/mobil1/million.htm)





hard time finding M1???? its fricken everywhere here.

it IS worth the cost to get redline, and that cost isnt very high.

my car uses 8 quarts of oil, and thats $70 for oil, $10 for a filter, and $0.50 for a new crush ring, good for 6-12K miles depending on how i drive, about $1 every hundred miles.

M1 has lower amounts of anti wear and extreme pressure additives, and also lower film strength at the same viscosity as a Redline oil will. also, i was looking at microscope scans of M1 oils, and most of em look rather filthy, while the Redline oils were absolutely spotless. Mobile1 MX4T motorcycle oil however is one of the cleanest oils i have ever seen.

[liquidtiger720]

wow

[Espen]

to make it simple Espen: Redline 5W30, approved viscosity at crank for -30C, approved for max flow in the engine at 40C, approved for max engine protection at 100C and beyond.

if you went down below -30 often during the winter season, i would recommend a 0wt oil, but you should be ok with 5W30 to change once a year if you keep it under 10K miles and dont make lots of short trips, or have lots of "spirited" driving. most of us would need 2 changes per year, and a few of us who autocross often may want 3.

almost all oils by Amsoil and M1 have very low pour points and will meet the viscosity levels needed for cold, but at hot the film strength can only be enhanced by using higher viscosity oils, which isnt always the best option.

Amsoil is a brand that Ive never seen in my country. So i would have to get some Redline. below -30 is VERY rare.. usually just between -5 to -20, but I have seen the -30 some times, anyhow, in those times I use the engine preheater a coupple hours before i use the car.

I drive about 3000 km a month, so Ill have to change oil 3 to 4 times a year.

the Redline 5w30 would be Ok for summertime use as well? Is not the w30 part to thin for summer?

[BillionPa]

30wt oil has the optimal flow rate for pretty much any piston based internal combustion engine with an upper valvetrain. The reason it would "seem" thin to somebody looking for oil is that the SAE standard for film strength is 2.9 on a 30wt.

HOWEVER, here is where it gets just plain stupid
the standard for 40wt is ALSO 2.9
the standard for 40wt HD and 50wt is 3.7

that is why a lot of BMW owners will look for a 50wt oil, the high film strength, which provides maximum bearing and camshaft protection under load.

a lot of us will look for synthetic 40wt, which almost always has the minimum HD strength of 3.7, but is rarely marketed that way, so you dont always know what you are getting.

the downside is that the 40 and 50wt oils dont provide enough oil flow to the upper valve train, which causes oil starvation problems. the problems may not manifest for 200000 miles, but we dont want our engines to have problems at all, I am sure.

Redline 5W30 has the optimal 30wt kinematic viscosity of 10.8 at operating temp, while maintaining a film strength of 3.8, which is higher than most other 40wt oils, and a few 50wt oils.

that is the long answer, the short one is: No, Redline 5W30 is not too "thin" for summer, unless you see consistently high temps like Arizona or Texas, which should use 40wt, because at the temps they see the oil thins out more than "operating temp" thickness.

[Espen]

30wt oil has the optimal flow rate for pretty much any piston based internal combustion engine with an upper valvetrain. The reason it would "seem" thin to somebody looking for oil is that the SAE standard for film strength is 2.9 on a 30wt.

HOWEVER, here is where it gets just plain stupid
the standard for 40wt is ALSO 2.9
the standard for 40wt HD and 50wt is 3.7

that is why a lot of BMW owners will look for a 50wt oil, the high film strength, which provides maximum bearing and camshaft protection under load.

a lot of us will look for synthetic 40wt, which almost always has the minimum HD strength of 3.7, but is rarely marketed that way, so you dont always know what you are getting.

the downside is that the 40 and 50wt oils dont provide enough oil flow to the upper valve train, which causes oil starvation problems. the problems may not manifest for 200000 miles, but we dont want our engines to have problems at all, I am sure.

Redline 5W30 has the optimal 30wt kinematic viscosity of 10.8 at operating temp, while maintaining a film strength of 3.8, which is higher than most other 40wt oils, and a few 50wt oils.

that is the long answer, the short one is: No, Redline 5W30 is not too "thin" for summer, unless you see consistently high temps like Arizona or Texas, which should use 40wt, because at the temps they see the oil thins out more than "operating temp" thickness.

Thanks this cleared it out for me!

But this is Redline numbers only right? A Mobil1 5w30 would not have the same filmstrength as redline?

[Ausmpower]

30 years each.... wow, in your pictures you're all so well preserved for your ages.. Better tell the people responsible for your website that they forgot to put a 1 in front of that 50... you seem to have a problem with numbers.


That '50' on the web is just our front counter..... not phone room, not back counter, not motor cycles, not Mini.

Anyhow next time you're down under pop in and say HI!........

[Ausmpower]

teach you this? Your not supposed to dress a headgasket with anything on any of these engines. 50 years of experience only goes so far when you have 1 guy who has been around for 30 years and 4 other who have each been around for only 5 years a piece.


My oil pressure issue was due to one thing, and one thing only....a worn pump(I agree! and a worn pump struggles to flow enough oil to maintain oil pressure ay idle using the reccomeded oil (for AUS M30's 15-50) then you wonder if there is any problem running thinner oils in the same worn motor!!....SHEESH!!). Our indy in Chicago (where there is a large population of olders BMWs and M30s....and he sees a lot of these), still cracks open engines that have no treatment (wire ties or loctite) on the banjo bolts for the oil spray bar(Who has been doing the previous lash adjustments then? I'll bet another INDY, dealers have know of the problem since the early 80's and have been using the prepreg banjo bolts since 84 in AUS).

I'd say your experience that oil grade choice is the majority factor in top end wear on the M30 is not accurate.(In original worn engines it is, as you said before "worn oil pump" it won't flow stock oil with enough pressure but you seem to think it would pump a thinner oil adequately at higher temps? that's just nonsensical)

Hylomar: I've used it for years and some manufacturers use it OEM (Ford, Mazda, Toyota) on specific engines. I used it on My EJ20 in my RS Liberty Just as SUBARU recommended...... 100,000 km later wow no head gasket probs even after continual running @ 25 Psi....... Nope I have NO clue.

Hang on a dingo's eating my baby...

[BillionPa]

I dont have film strength #s for anything but redline and some dino oils, but I doubt M1 is nearly as high as redline is. Only certain types of base oils exhibit exceptional film strength at low viscosities, and thats group 5 oils.

M1 is mostly Group 4 (PAO) with some 5 in it.
Redline is mostly Group 5 (PE) with some group 4 in it!
Amsoil is Group 4
Lubro-Moly is a combo like M1, but with more esters.
German Castrol is Group 4 (supposedly)
Regular Castrol Syntec is hydroisomerized Group 3 with synthetic additives, which makes it 85% non synthetic.

Esters stick to metal better than PAOs, and work better at high temperatures.
Esters also dissolve additives better than PAOs
PAOs also tend to cause seal shrinking, which causes oil leaks, Esters cause seal expansion.

Redline formulates PAOs into their Ester oils to reduce the amount of seal expansion without causing shrinking, M1 formulates Esters into their PAO oils to better disolve their additive package.

Esters arent the only thing in G5 by the way, but they are the most effective G5 in motor oil. G5 compounds are more effective than G4 oils alone, and a balanced combo of 4 and 5 makes the best oil.

[Bill R.]

the rest of the world. Here's the tsb that the rest of the world got and notice the publication date. Do you ever state anything thats accurate?

[Bill R.]

spreading this meaningless bullsh*t around. Your making this poor guy think that he's buying more protection with your film strength babble. How many engines have you actually torn down and inspected? How many bearing failures have you seen from loss of film strength? How many spun rod bearings or mains or even galling on the piston skirts? Most of these motors go well in excess of 200k miles under all kinds of conditions with the vast majority of bmw owners running only dino oil back when these were new.
And when they do die its not usually an oil related failure. Its usually because somebody blew a radiator hose or cracked a radiator, ran it completely dry and then kept going because they didn't want to stop. At this point the engine gets so hot that it blows the head gasket then proceeds to crack the block
Then when they keep going such as halfway to Vegas from L.A. for example up that nice long grade. At this point its so hot that no oil in the world will keep the piston ring lands from collapsing, the skirts from galling and the bearings from going.
This is the most common failure mode i see living here in the desert
Any of the synthetics mentioned would provide him with far superior protection over the mineral oils that the cars originally came with and lived so long with. He doesn't need to hunt up redline in the european country that he's in. Any quality oil where he's at will work fine and there are enough synthetics everywhere to find something that suits him.

All of this oil nonsense is really starting to piss me off.






30wt oil has the optimal flow rate for pretty much any piston based internal combustion engine with an upper valvetrain. The reason it would "seem" thin to somebody looking for oil is that the SAE standard for film strength is 2.9 on a 30wt.

HOWEVER, here is where it gets just plain stupid
the standard for 40wt is ALSO 2.9
the standard for 40wt HD and 50wt is 3.7

that is why a lot of BMW owners will look for a 50wt oil, the high film strength, which provides maximum bearing and camshaft protection under load.

a lot of us will look for synthetic 40wt, which almost always has the minimum HD strength of 3.7, but is rarely marketed that way, so you dont always know what you are getting.

the downside is that the 40 and 50wt oils dont provide enough oil flow to the upper valve train, which causes oil starvation problems. the problems may not manifest for 200000 miles, but we dont want our engines to have problems at all, I am sure.

Redline 5W30 has the optimal 30wt kinematic viscosity of 10.8 at operating temp, while maintaining a film strength of 3.8, which is higher than most other 40wt oils, and a few 50wt oils.

that is the long answer, the short one is: No, Redline 5W30 is not too "thin" for summer, unless you see consistently high temps like Arizona or Texas, which should use 40wt, because at the temps they see the oil thins out more than "operating temp" thickness.

[Ausmpower]

the rest of the world. Here's the tsb that the rest of the world got and notice the publication date. Do you ever state anything thats accurate?

I notice that TIS is in electronic format (And colour too, windows based? Not Panda? look further back in time, what's the oldest service update on your system?)......

When did BMW introduce that system btw? can You remember? I still have 2 files full of old (Oh my god ........PAPER!) TSB/TIS/SI updates.

BTW that was the second banjo supercesion, as I said the first was in 84....Hmm prior to the electronic TIS system is it not?, I don't have a scanner (OOHH I have a paper copy though!) so you'll need to do your own research on that Bill.

Even prior to the 'official word' dealers were retorquing the banjo's on the E12's regularly.

[Jose]

All of this oil nonsense is really starting to piss me off.

Finally something sensible to say about the never ending oil discusssion. Only you can decide what oil you want to use and the feel it gives to your car as long as you don't use salad dressing oil......

[Ausmpower]

spreading this meaningless bullsh*t around. Your making this poor guy think that he's buying more protection with your film strength babbleHey don't call me in to film strength debate I couldn't careless!). How many engines have you actually torn down and inspected?Bmw or just in general? BMW- 15 or so several x-german police turbo M30's, Others? Lost count...I'm a mech by trade)

How many bearing failures have you seen from loss of film strength? How many spun rod bearings or mains or even galling on the piston skirts?( You missed the point I was talking top ends not bottom ends, in the case of M30's the bottom end is bullet proof and will go 400k miles if looked after!) Most of these motors go well in excess of 200k miles under all kinds of conditions with the vast majority of bmw owners running only dino oil back when these were new.(Dino is what they were designed and clearanced for! the block in the E34 has the same oil cuircut design as the 2500 from '68)

And when they do die its not usually an oil related failure. Its usually because somebody blew a radiator hose or cracked a radiator, ran it completely dry and then kept going because they didn't want to stop. At this point the engine gets so hot that it blows the head gasket then proceeds to crack the block(where was this supposed to go? Again I reiterate that I was talking valvetrain failures)
Then when they keep going such as halfway to Vegas from L.A. for example up that nice long grade(doesn't apply to me I'm in Aus where it is just damn hot most of the year!). At this point its so hot that no oil in the world will keep the piston ring lands from collapsing, the skirts from galling and the bearings from going. (Maybe you're getting confused as the bottom half of this dribbling post seems like it was supposed to be in another thread about COOLING SYSTEM FAILURES.
This is the most common failure mode i see living here in the desert
Any of the synthetics mentioned would provide him with far superior protection over the mineral oils that the cars originally came with and lived so long with(At higher viscosities mind you!). He doesn't need to hunt up redline in the european country that he's in. Any quality oil where he's at will work fine and there are enough synthetics everywhere to find something that suits him.

All of this oil nonsense is really starting to piss me off.

Sorry if this pisses you off but if you post attacking people expect a reply!

(It's 11.30pm friday night and the bourbon is going down nicely this end!)

[Scott H]

I got the same PSI at idle with 0-40 as I did with 15-50 with my worn pump. At your average M30 operating temps, the VI varies between the two weights on paper, but not enough to show significant differences in psi. I liken this real world test to THD specs on an amp and speakers. You could have the best THD spec in the world, but ultimately the human ear can only interpret the quality to a certain point.....after that, it's all rubbish.

If you have a paper TSB about the oil spray bar banjo bolts that dates before 3/93, then scan it in PDF format and upload it to this site for us to look at.

Regarding hylomar, yes use it on a lot of gaskets in the engine, but NOT a headgasket.


Hylomar: I've used it for years and some manufacturers use it OEM (Ford, Mazda, Toyota) on specific engines. I used it on My EJ20 in my RS Liberty Just as SUBARU recommended...... 100,000 km later wow no head gasket probs even after continual running @ 25 Psi....... Nope I have NO clue.

Hang on a dingo's eating my baby...

[Espen]

spreading this meaningless bullsh*t around. Your making this poor guy think that he's buying more protection with your film strength babble. How many engines have you actually torn down and inspected? How many bearing failures have you seen from loss of film strength? How many spun rod bearings or mains or even galling on the piston skirts? Most of these motors go well in excess of 200k miles under all kinds of conditions with the vast majority of bmw owners running only dino oil back when these were new.
And when they do die its not usually an oil related failure. Its usually because somebody blew a radiator hose or cracked a radiator, ran it completely dry and then kept going because they didn't want to stop. At this point the engine gets so hot that it blows the head gasket then proceeds to crack the block
Then when they keep going such as halfway to Vegas from L.A. for example up that nice long grade. At this point its so hot that no oil in the world will keep the piston ring lands from collapsing, the skirts from galling and the bearings from going.
This is the most common failure mode i see living here in the desert
Any of the synthetics mentioned would provide him with far superior protection over the mineral oils that the cars originally came with and lived so long with. He doesn't need to hunt up redline in the european country that he's in. Any quality oil where he's at will work fine and there are enough synthetics everywhere to find something that suits him.

All of this oil nonsense is really starting to piss me off.

Ok, I ask just to be sure i wont hurt my engine with the wrong viscosity grade for summer/winter time. What brand is actually not that important. I have heard that oilpressure go low when the oil is to thin in summer. But a 0w40 Mobil1/castrol is Ok for me in the Norwegian summer? temp up to +30 C.
And for winter? the same 0w40?

[Bill R.]

that moderate of temps. I gather that the winters get very cold. In which case a 0w40 would be fine in a synthetic oil.






Ok, I ask just to be sure i wont hurt my engine with the wrong viscosity grade for summer/winter time. What brand is actually not that important. I have heard that oilpressure go low when the oil is to thin in summer. But a 0w40 Mobil1/castrol is Ok for me in the Norwegian summer? temp up to +30 C.
And for winter? the same 0w40?

[Espen]

Thanks. Then I`ll go for the Castrol Edge. (just because I get a good discount on it)

[Chowchilla Skunkwerks]

Damn all this gave me a flashback to the early 80's....nothing like a good "discussion" between the parts dept and the service dept!!!!!!!!!!

[Ross]

Sort of like architects and builders.