Ticking noise from top of engine

[Mas (UK)]

After a 2hr drive down to London last night, I noticed a distinct ticking noise coming from the top of the engine as I parked up. This is an 525 with the M50 engine and hydraulic lifters and I've never heard such a tick-tick-tick noise coming from the top of the valve cover area before. Normally the car is near silent (ignoring the normal noise of the fan spinning) after it has warmed up.

I took a look around but didn't see any obvious leaks or hoses hanging loose. The oil level is fine. Water temperature and level also fine.

How can I check whether any oil is actually being pumped up to the valvetrain? I tried to look down into the valvetrain through the oil filler hole while the engine is running, but there is the splash panel over the camshaft and I could only just see a tiny bit of the spring-deck area. Couldn't see any oil flowing around there. Should I be able to see any oil anyway? The only thing I noticed was a fine mist trying to escape from the open oil hole. I'm guessing this is normal, but the ticking noise is not.

I am tempted to remove the valve cover to check for further clues. I suspect it's the supply up to the top that's the problem though. So any ways to check the oil pump is working? The oil pump is in the pan on an M50, yes? Should I take the oil pan off and check the pick-up pipe? Your thoughts would be very welcome.

Cheers,

Mas

[RobPatt]

or do they keep chatting away... OR is it only noisey after a good drive? OR both?


After a 2hr drive down to London last night, I noticed a distinct ticking noise coming from the top of the engine as I parked up. This is an 525 with the M50 engine and hydraulic lifters and I've never heard such a tick-tick-tick noise coming from the top of the valve cover area before. Normally the car is near silent (ignoring the normal noise of the fan spinning) after it has warmed up.

I took a look around but didn't see any obvious leaks or hoses hanging loose. The oil level is fine. Water temperature and level also fine.

How can I check whether any oil is actually being pumped up to the valvetrain? I tried to look down into the valvetrain through the oil filler hole while the engine is running, but there is the splash panel over the camshaft and I could only just see a tiny bit of the spring-deck area. Couldn't see any oil flowing around there. Should I be able to see any oil anyway? The only thing I noticed was a fine mist trying to escape from the open oil hole. I'm guessing this is normal, but the ticking noise is not.

I am tempted to remove the valve cover to check for further clues. I suspect it's the supply up to the top that's the problem though. So any ways to check the oil pump is working? The oil pump is in the pan on an M50, yes? Should I take the oil pan off and check the pick-up pipe? Your thoughts would be very welcome.

Cheers,

Mas

[Mas (UK)]

or do they keep chatting away... OR is it only noisey after a good drive? OR both?


and gets louder with faster engine speed. I changed the oil and filter to see if it would make a difference but nothing noticeable. At idle, the ticking is about 2 ticks second and definitely seems to be coming from inside the valve cover or somewhere a bit lower in there.

I am going to open the valve cover up and take a look in there. What is really strange is that even after a few minutes run of the engine there is a fine mist which you see when the oil filler cap is removed. I don't believe I ever noticed this before this problem. I am guessing oil isn't getting up to the top. Where are the oil holes if I want to check that they are clear and unblocked? Any help & suggestions would be very welcome.

Thanks,

Mas

[gmannino]

Valves need to be re-adjusted?

[Mas (UK)]

Valves need to be re-adjusted?

and doesn't need adjusting as it's done automatically.

Mas

[Alexlind123]

Sticking injector/s?

[Ausmpower]

I think you'll find one HLA has a carbon chip blocking the oil feed.

No oil to the head would be really rattly as all the HLA's would have collapsed.....

I'd be running an engine oil flush and doing another oil change to try to break the bit of crud down..

Do you run synthetic or mineral oil?

[Mas (UK)]

I think you'll find one HLA has a carbon chip blocking the oil feed.

No oil to the head would be really rattly as all the HLA's would have collapsed.....

I'd be running an engine oil flush and doing another oil change to try to break the bit of crud down..

Do you run synthetic or mineral oil?


some fresh mineral oil to check if the oil was the problem. The ticking is still there so something may well be blocked in the valvetrain. When I take the cover off, where exactly are the oil holes for me to check? Anything I can do to clean the hydraulic tappets manually? Is it worth spraying everything in there down with WD40 (or such thinning lub) to help free any blockages? Then renew the oil. Will WD40 harm the engine if traces are left in the oil?

Mas

[Yiorgos]

I have the same problem as you Mas. Whenever the car starts, ticks like a bomb. I tried some Lifter Free from some company called Nulon, also tried Engine Tune Up additive from Wynns.

Now, after the engine has warmed up, it's not as loud, but definitely still there. It also gets louder when the engine is at idle, but as soon as you press the pedal the sound (almost) disappears.

I think this is the case with my M50 because I have left this lifter to tick for more than a year now without doing anything about it (I know, my bad, what kind of d*ckhead am I, what kind of an E34 owner am I, etc etc.), so I'm guessing that a replacement of my lifters might be the only solution for me (and an expensive one -- $tealer quoted AU$2400).

I might try the Engine Flush, but I'll let the Lifter Free thing do its course first (it said on the bottle leave in the oil for 14 days or 500km).

[Omega]

I agree with AusMPowers diagnosis. Bit of crud blocking a lifter. My 525 M50 used to do this alot. Run some engine flush through and replace oil & filter.

I had to flush the engine twice but it has been rattle free for a long time now - over 10k mile.

With the Flush I used (Wynns) you have to fast idle the engine to around 2000 rpm for 10-15 minutes. If your BM is an auto either take it for a SLOW drive or jack the back end off the ground and put the box into drive. You will cook the trans if you rev it in Park or Neutral for that length of time.

My $tealer priced the job at £80 per lifter and he wanted to change them ALL. With labour on top the job wasn't financially viable so I had nothing to loose by flushing.

[Mas (UK)]

I have the same problem as you Mas. Whenever the car starts, ticks like a bomb. I tried some Lifter Free from some company called Nulon, also tried Engine Tune Up additive from Wynns.

Now, after the engine has warmed up, it's not as loud, but definitely still there. It also gets louder when the engine is at idle, but as soon as you press the pedal the sound (almost) disappears.

I might try the Engine Flush, but I'll let the Lifter Free thing do its course first (it said on the bottle leave in the oil for 14 days or 500km).


during a drive down to london. I suspect something has happened to stop/reduce the oil getting to the valvetrain area and things getting noisy because of this. I want to take a look under the cover to see if it will reveal any further clues, maybe like if some parts look too 'dry' compared to others. I found some serious sludge in this engine a while back and will not be surprised if some bits have come loose and ended up blocking certain oil paths. Who knows.

Sorry to hear about you suffering similar problems with your car. Hopefully we'll get both our cars sounding better soon with a little or a lotta help from this fab forum.

Mas

[Ausmpower]

You could try using a light diesel engine oil for a few hundred km as it has much stronger detergents that petrol engine oil and will help to break down the sludge nd get it into the filter quicker.

[Mr Project]

As crazy as this sounds, are you sure a spark plug isn't getting loose? A friend of mine with an M50TU powered 325is had a loud ticking develop suddenly, and it sounded like it was coming from under the valve cover. It turned out that a recently-installed spark plug had loosened up enough to make something of a racket. If your noise developed suddenly, it might be worth checking to make sure they're all clean and tight.

[Yiorgos]

Does anyone know if any damage is done to the lifter if it is starved of oil for a long period of time? As I said earlier, I left mine to tick for just over a year, I'm pretty sure it would be rooted now.

Sorry to hijack your thread Mas.

[Mas (UK)]

As crazy as this sounds, are you sure a spark plug isn't getting loose? A friend of mine with an M50TU powered 325is had a loud ticking develop suddenly, and it sounded like it was coming from under the valve cover. It turned out that a recently-installed spark plug had loosened up enough to make something of a racket. If your noise developed suddenly, it might be worth checking to make sure they're all clean and tight.


or low engine oil, but having checked these it is something else. The other thing is that the ticking is definitely mechanical and accurately precise like a swiss ticktock on your wrist. Isn't that the craziest thing, that even when our bm's are not feeling well, their coughs & sneezes sound well engineered! :)

Cheers all the same Mr P. By the way, good luck with your car transplants! This little ticking seems trivial compared to the heart surgery you're doing on your motors!

Mas

[Mas (UK)]

I thought it could be useful to post a little feedback to the ticking noise which my engine developed suddenly during a drive down to london.

The first thing I did after returning from london was change the oil and filter. But the ticking noise remained.

Then after talking to you guys and reading all your suggestions, I decided to try and run a valve cleaning additive as my second course of action before I got my toolbox out and started taking bits off the engine which would be my last options. So I went to my local auto store of Halfords and bought a bottle of Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment (325ml) for about £6. Added it to the oil and run the car, for a few minutes ... no change. Then a few days later I decided to drive it for the first time in to work with the aim to take it to the garage in the afternoon.

The mechanic I go to is a genuinely friendly and knowledgable indian man who runs his small garage with his brother. They specialise in bmw repairs and I just wanted to ask his advice. I told him the story, done oil and filter change, added valve lifter treatment, car driven about 30miles since but the noise still there very clear.

He listened to the ticking noise increasing with acceleration and suggested this: It sounds like one or more of your hydraulic valve lifters are not being lubricated efficiently and may need replacing. To begin with, since you've only driven 30miles since putting the lifter treatment in why don't you drive the car around for a few more days to allow the treatment to do its business. The car is safe for you to drive around at reasonable speeds, even upto 70-80mph on motorways, but I wouldn't go any faster. (I don't know whether he was joking becasuse the speed limit here in the UK is 70 but I took that as his way of saying it's ok for me to drive around town). Then in a week or two, if the noise is still there you can bring it back and we take a look at it. If engine work was needed, he recommended to replace all 24 lifters and quoted £500 for the job all in.

So what's the feedback you may be asking? Well, on the way in to work this morning, I distictly heard the ticking noise just fade away to nothing. I turned the radio down and nothing. Came to a stop lights with other cars around me and heard nothing bouncing back from my engine. Revved up in neutral and my engine was suddenly quiet as a pussy cat. So my good friends, I am firstly a happy man to have a quiet engine back again and secondly a believer in this Wynns valve lifter treatment stuff. It could be the new oil too I guess but either way, the tappets are quiet again. Hurray!!! :)

I will still keep an ear out on the way home, but so-far things are sounding sweet again. As for all you guys, please give yourselves a pat on the back from me as thanks for your support and helpful suggestions.

Cheers,

Mas

[keystone]

Unfortunately, my car has been doing the same thing for a long time (it must be 95 525 thing). It seems Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment is only available in UK. I searched for "Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment" in internet, nothing seems to be available in the USA. I would be very happy if that ticking sounds is gone from car. It seems to be the same problem as MAS's so Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment could have helped.

I thought it could be useful to post a little feedback to the ticking noise which my engine developed suddenly during a drive down to london.

The first thing I did after returning from london was change the oil and filter. But the ticking noise remained.

Then after talking to you guys and reading all your suggestions, I decided to try and run a valve cleaning additive as my second course of action before I got my toolbox out and started taking bits off the engine which would be my last options. So I went to my local auto store of Halfords and bought a bottle of Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment (325ml) for about £6. Added it to the oil and run the car, for a few minutes ... no change. Then a few days later I decided to drive it for the first time in to work with the aim to take it to the garage in the afternoon.

The mechanic I go to is a genuinely friendly and knowledgable indian man who runs his small garage with his brother. They specialise in bmw repairs and I just wanted to ask his advice. I told him the story, done oil and filter change, added valve lifter treatment, car driven about 30miles since but the noise still there very clear.

He listened to the ticking noise increasing with acceleration and suggested this: It sounds like one or more of your hydraulic valve lifters are not being lubricated efficiently and may need replacing. To begin with, since you've only driven 30miles since putting the lifter treatment in why don't you drive the car around for a few more days to allow the treatment to do its business. The car is safe for you to drive around at reasonable speeds, even upto 70-80mph on motorways, but I wouldn't go any faster. (I don't know whether he was joking becasuse the speed limit here in the UK is 70 but I took that as his way of saying it's ok for me to drive around town). Then in a week or two, if the noise is still there you can bring it back and we take a look at it. If engine work was needed, he recommended to replace all 24 lifters and quoted £500 for the job all in.

So what's the feedback you may be asking? Well, on the way in to work this morning, I distictly heard the ticking noise just fade away to nothing. I turned the radio down and nothing. Came to a stop lights with other cars around me and heard nothing bouncing back from my engine. Revved up in neutral and my engine was suddenly quiet as a pussy cat. So my good friends, I am firstly a happy man to have a quiet engine back again and secondly a believer in this Wynns valve lifter treatment stuff. It could be the new oil too I guess but either way, the tappets are quiet again. Hurray!!! :)

I will still keep an ear out on the way home, but so-far things are sounding sweet again. As for all you guys, please give yourselves a pat on the back from me as thanks for your support and helpful suggestions.

Cheers,

Mas

[ryan roopnarine]

Unfortunately, my car has been doing the same thing for a long time (it must be 95 525 thing). It seems Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment is only available in UK. I searched for "Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment" in internet, nothing seems to be available in the USA. I would be very happy if that ticking sounds is gone from car. It seems to be the same problem as MAS's so Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment could have helped.

if in the us, you can use seafoam (harsh) or auto-rx (gentle, but expensive and mail order only) to do the same thing.

[titanium25]

this also happened to me once and as i was trying to open the valve cover to find a mechanical problem i noticed a rip in the spark plug boot... the spark was jumping straight to the valve cover. after replacing the boot i noticed that i was running on five cylinders the whole time the tick was happening. its worth a try...

[Yiorgos]

Good to hear your problem has been solved Mas. I had the unfortunate decision of replacing all of my lifters, which cost me mega $$$$ but now my tapping is only contained to the first minute or so of starting the car from cold. I guess that's what happens when you drive the car around in that state for 13,000km!

What your BMW specialist said was pretty much on par with what the $tealer said to me when I went to get my lifters replaced -- they usually change all of them, and the labour and parts cost a fair bit.

[pyro]

2 things...

1st CHECK YOUR SPARKPLUGS-----when i first got my car I drove the $hit out of it and thought I broke it because of a little ticking noise like that and it ended up being a lose sparkplug.
2nd my motor on 20w50 in the m50 ticks like crazy on initial startup but after that it makes slight ticking noise, you cant even hear it when the hood is closed.

hope this helps and CHECK YOUR SPARKPLUGS!!

[pong]

what oil should u use 10w 30?

just wondering which is a good one...

im currently at 20w 50... and its ticking like hell

[genphreak]

what oil should u use 10w 30?

just wondering which is a good one...

im currently at 20w 50... and its ticking like hellDepends on the weather where you are. 10W/50 is handles all conditions. Thinner (when hot) oils are not good for our engines. If you have a noisy valvetrain on startup you have no oil pressure. How long does it take for your idiot light (oil pressure warning) to go out in your clusters? It should take no more than second after the engine fires (after one night stationery). If not you need to fix your oil canister or risk cam/valve wear every time you start- see BMW e34.net for info. In the cold it may take longer and you should run 10W/50 or 0W/40 to help your oil pumps :) Nick

[jbourke]

this also happened to me once and as i was trying to open the valve cover to find a mechanical problem i noticed a rip in the spark plug boot... the spark was jumping straight to the valve cover. after replacing the boot i noticed that i was running on five cylinders the whole time the tick was happening. its worth a try...

I was having an intermediate "Swiss clock" tick as well that I have been blaming on one or more lifters. Same as titanium25 , I discovered a tiny crack at the end of the nr 2 spark plug boot. Probing it a bit actually broke off a piece, other boots were supple and fine. I cut a piece of inner bicycle tube, this fitted nice and tight around the boot. Car is is using all six again now ... boy am i pleased with that:D

[RobPatt]

...fashion somewhere on the archives... no biggie, just saying it's not "original" material....

1. if can do in your climate, try 0w40 oil, synthetic
2. change oil often, at least increase frequency
want to ensure passages don't gum up, flow gets into vanos, etc etc.
3. if after a long fast drive starts ticking do research for oil foaming up in the pan... find articles/refs here on the board... it's happened to others who noticed it sudden and after a long drive...
4. all assumed you got enough oil to pump up lifters in the first place.
5. loose plugs, cracked boots/wires, etc also.

I got 0w40 and get chatter for about 3 seconds after start, then smooth and silent and I think she gets slightly louder after a long fast run.

good luck. i guess if you can pull the cam you can change your own lifters.... but pulling cam seems like a delicate process w/o the tool....

rob sends....

[infinity5]

I put my money on injectors. I've got 8 of them, and its like a goddamn orchestra of ticks when the engine cover is off and the hood is open.

If i poke my head around i can specifically hear the noise comming from the injectors, i'l 98% sure its not my valves, i've had the cover off several times and everything seems equally wet with oil.

[stu1]

My fave tool for 'tick tracking' is a long screwdriver - push the handle in your ear and place the tip on various parts - it can be amazingly accurate. (OK, you have your head on its side, but it's cheaper than anything else).

Stu.