Scary $hit: Rhino Ramps Can Collapse ...

[RockJock]

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/general-car-chat/283360-wtf-my-rhino-ramp-shattered-into-pieces.html :(

[HDhandyman]

OMG, two sets I can't believe that. Holy ****! WTF am I gonna do now about my Rhino ramps? I have them because I'm ultra paranoid about getting under there. They were my security blanket (Linus). WTF!

[RockJock]

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/general-car-chat/283360-wtf-my-rhino-ramp-shattered-into-pieces.html :(

from another forum, makes total sense to me:

Sorry, but the way they broke looks to me like you described what happened in the wrong order. It looks like you F'd up and drove over the edge of them, and then when your rocker panel slammed down on them it broke. I don't mean to be an *******(can't help it ) . But I've had a set for several yrs. that hold my 3600# car and my almost 6000# truck just fine. Of course I stop when I get to the top. Thousands and thousands of ppl use these ramps and your the first I've heard of with probs.
If I'm wrong, I apologize, and it sucks for you either way, but jmho.

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/general-car-chat/283360-wtf-my-rhino-ramp-shattered-into-pieces-4.html

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

and crushed it.

common beer chugging wrench turner mistake. Drive up too fast and over shoot the ramp.

at least with the plastic ramps break, the metal ones get stuck under the car.


Tip: one foot on the gas and one one the brake.

[HDhandyman]

Old buddy doesn't say anywhere in the thread that he drove over the ramps? It's just the opinion/guess of one other guy, with no retort yet from original poster. What if air bubbles are a real concern? It's certainly not a chance that I'm gonna take.

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Trust a plastic ramp in the end.

[RockJock]

i think the weight of the guys car absolutely had to be off center (i.e. towards the edge of the ramp) for it to break like that. he must have driven it way to far (like, off the ramp), else if the weight of the car would have been dead center it would have shattered in the middle .... bubbles/pores in cross-section of break most likely normal. but, then again, i'm not a Structural/Materials EngiNerd :D

[cableface]

I've used mine in some pretty sketchy situations, which I know isnt wise. Still it was done. I jumped, pushed, and slammed down on the car with all my might every time. These things didnt budge. So mine, at least are great (knock on wood). If for some reason I suddenly quit posting, you may want to call someone to check on me though.....!

[Alexlind123]

Trust a plastic ramp in the end.

I would trust a plastic ramp if the weight rating was well over the weight of my vehicle...but cartainly not after they failed once. That guy must be a moron to get under a car on the same ramps that failed once already.

[RockJock]

....and to be honest with you, after having one to many "Becks", thus driving off the ramp, i'd rather have a ramp failure than a crushed rocker panel ..... but then again why would you drink beer while working on a car?

[GoldenEagleFan]

If the story is correct and it's the driver's side, if he drove over and the car fell down the body would hit nearer the back of the ramp, not the front. (Draw a picture with a straight edge pivoting from the center of the rear wheel and you'll see what I mean). The pictures he has where all the porosity is in the center indicates cold shunting of the mold as the plastic is injected into it. Probably caused by the varying wall sections where there are thin sections next to the thick one. If you notice, the amount of solid material in the thicker section is almost the same as the thickness of the section in the thinner areas. What happens is the plastic is pushed into the mold and the cavity fills equally all over but as soon as the thin section is full no more material can get to the thicker section, leaving voids. Looks like a poor gating job by ther mold designer.

I wouldn't trust these ramps looking at the pictures. If you have used them in the past with no problems you have probably been lucky and always had the weight distributed equally in the center. Any off center loading adds additional bending moments and WHAM! no more support.....

[cableface]

If the story is correct and it's the driver's side, if he drove over and the car fell down the body would hit nearer the back of the ramp, not the front. (Draw a picture with a straight edge pivoting from the center of the rear wheel and you'll see what I mean). The pictures he has where all the porosity is in the center indicates cold shunting of the mold as the plastic is injected into it. Probably caused by the varying wall sections where there are thin sections next to the thick one. If you notice, the amount of solid material in the thicker section is almost the same as the thickness of the section in the thinner areas. What happens is the plastic is pushed into the mold and the cavity fills equally all over but as soon as the thin section is full no more material can get to the thicker section, leaving voids. Looks like a poor gating job by ther mold designer.

I wouldn't trust these ramps looking at the pictures. If you have used them in the past with no problems you have probably been lucky and always had the weight distributed equally in the center. Any off center loading adds additional bending moments and WHAM! no more support.....Like I said, I've used mine in many spots where I shouldnt have. This stupidly includes extremely non-level spots and severely cracked (f-upped) pavement. Maybe he didnt line up the ramps, and the driver's side ramp was ahead of the other side. Then the driver's side may have stopped on top of the "hump" at the end. I could easily see that shattering the ramp since that part is not meant for distributing the weight.

[RockJock]

If the story is correct and it's the driver's side, if he drove over and the car fell down the body would hit nearer the back of the ramp, not the front. (Draw a picture with a straight edge pivoting from the center of the rear wheel and you'll see what I mean). The pictures he has where all the porosity is in the center indicates cold shunting of the mold as the plastic is injected into it. Probably caused by the varying wall sections where there are thin sections next to the thick one. If you notice, the amount of solid material in the thicker section is almost the same as the thickness of the section in the thinner areas. What happens is the plastic is pushed into the mold and the cavity fills equally all over but as soon as the thin section is full no more material can get to the thicker section, leaving voids. Looks like a poor gating job by ther mold designer.

I wouldn't trust these ramps looking at the pictures. If you have used them in the past with no problems you have probably been lucky and always had the weight distributed equally in the center. Any off center loading adds additional bending moments and WHAM! no more support.....

excellent analysis! thanks!

p.s. you must be a gold bug! ..... i like that! $1,000 here we come baby! go Au ... go Ag ... go Gata :D ..... fiat currency sux!

[GoldenEagleFan]

but I still think the plastic looks suspect. There's something comforting about thick steel plate holding up a vehicle. Although, if it's welded in a low cost country....

Does anyone else fantasize about a garage with a drive over pit?

[cableface]

but I still think the plastic looks suspect. There's something comforting about thick steel plate holding up a vehicle. Although, if it's welded in a low cost country....

Does anyone else fantasize about a garage with a drive over pit?
I fantasize about a garage with 6" reinforced concrete and a lift, but HEY I'd settle for a drive over pit! :D

[HDhandyman]

I fantasize about a garage with 6" reinforced concrete and a lift, but HEY I'd settle for a drive over pit! :D

Definately second that notion! I even asked my wheel and brake Indy how much it would cost for me to purchase a used one from him they moved to a larger local. 2500 seems reasonable, but I don't have the height and a new garage would just be crazy.:D

[RockJock]

what do all the Geers out there think of these?

http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/News/mwramps/

cheers!

[ryan roopnarine]

i don't know if it is because of the decline in discourse on this board, but that was the faggiest thing i've read in a while. he drives over, breaks the first set due to his own negligence---i don't even know how, ramps get driven over every day and are perfectly fine for the rest of the owner's life. you got a chorus of jackasses goin: "WOW plastic sucks metal r0x0rs, i'm gonna throw my rhino ramps in the garbage. look at those pics--OMFUGBBQFTPNBCNNBCBS!" "thats why eye don't drive mah big furd truck on to plastic" anybody that has ever used any lifting item and can read english has seen the warning alluding to: "if this (item) shows any implication of being defective, disable it and contact the manufacturer for replacement." even the chinese pot metal crap says that on it. walmart, autozone, advance auto (&c. &c.) sell metric craploads of these ramps, yet we hear nothing of widespread failures of them on the internet.

[mikell]

Why not? This looks like a fail safe deal - they'll be heavy and not as easy to store, but so what? Low tech, and reliable. Besides, looks like you can make them as tall as you like, within reason.

[Russell]

Not sure I am going to use my Rhino ramps again. Anyone know of better alternatives?

[ryan roopnarine]

Not sure I am going to use my Rhino ramps again. Anyone know of better alternatives?


they generally stopped making metal ramps by 1995, which is why everyone has to buy the fiberglass rhino ramps ( i dare anybody in the US to show me a pic of metal ramps, still in service, that aren't painted that weird shade of yellow from the 70s/80s--almost single source)--and why there are massive, widespread reports of rhino ramps breaking and killing the person under the car, as well as creating a shockwave that destroys everything in a 1km radius. seriously, there are almost no alternatives to the rhino. you'd have to buy metal ones from a garage sale or such.

[KenB]

( i dare anybody in the US to show me a pic of metal ramps, still in service, that aren't painted that weird shade of yellow from the 70s/80s--almost single source.

I just picked up a set of metal ramps, someone had them out on the curb for trash pickup. They look like they were used once for an oil change, no rust or anything abnormal looking. Oh yeah, they are red.

I haven't used them and now I don't think I want to.;)

[Tiger]

I own Rhino Ramps... I trust it completely. First of all, they are rated for 12,000 lbs per ramp. That guy only has an Impreza...how much does that weighs? No where near 24,000 lbs combined. He broke those at the edge of the ramp... meaning he drove on the edge... don't know how he did that...we usually set the ramp in front of the wheel before we drive up.

I question where he set the ramp and drove up... In FL, not everyone has concrete driveway or garage. So if you drive on gravel, sand or your yard, you WILL break the ramps. Unstable surface. I believe this is what happened.

I want to see that guy use metal ramp... first of all.. it is darn narrow! Second of all, no crossbracing so the ramp can collapse in the middle. Lastly, you have to rely on plastic starter ramp for those of us with lowered suspension. Two separate part of ramp is a natural disaster.

[Tiger]

If you want to make Rhino stronger, then fill the cavity with something... Concrete would make it rock solid but super super heavy. Foam would be good and light, but don't know what foam... probably the Stuff-It polyurethane foam that hardens... available at home depot.

Once you fill those cavity up completely... no air spots... you pretty much triple the strength of the ramp. The reason is you reinforced the plastic honeycombs so they all brace each other.

[Mendozart]

I'll still use mine, but just to be safe I'll stick a couple jack stands underneath for backup.

[HDhandyman]

If you want to make Rhino stronger, then fill the cavity with something... Concrete would make it rock solid but super super heavy. Foam would be good and light, but don't know what foam... probably the Stuff-It polyurethane foam that hardens... available at home depot.

Once you fill those cavity up completely... no air spots... you pretty much triple the strength of the ramp. The reason is you reinforced the plastic honeycombs so they all brace each other.


What happens when one of the honey combs that is designing to flex slightly as you pull up, can't move and then cracks the concrete of foam or whatever? Or maybe cracks the plastic, and then then only thing supporting you is the concrete?--just trying to play devil's advocate.

[ryan roopnarine]

I just picked up a set of metal ramps, someone had them out on the curb for trash pickup. They look like they were used once for an oil change, no rust or anything abnormal looking. Oh yeah, they are red.

I haven't used them and now I don't think I want to.;)


i knew that somebody would chime in about the red ones! sean and johan have pics of red ones, and i've seen them in canada, but never down here. my uncle in canada bought some black ones in 1991. anyway.....if you look around for diy-ers that have metal ramps (that have lasted through till now), i would bet (not more than $1 USD tho) that they are a pecuilar shade of yellow, and probably came from montgomery ward or sears. i wasn't sentient at the time (just being born and all) so i really don't know the whole story behind that.

[Tiger]

Yeah, I know... I'd leave the Rhino ramps alone as designed. Foam is rigid but soft enough to allow some flexing.

Rhino Ramps also made two different versions... one is weaker than the other... so buy the strongest one.

[Mitch90535im]

The homemade wood ones are nice. They would be good for someone with a convienent place to store them. I end up having to use a couple short pieces of 2X10's anyway to keep from dragging the spoiler when I use my steel ramps anyway.

[E34 530]

I just picked up a set of metal ramps, someone had them out on the curb for trash pickup. They look like they were used once for an oil change, no rust or anything abnormal looking. Oh yeah, they are red.

I haven't used them and now I don't think I want to.;)

lol. I have the old metal red ones that my grandpa gave me. At the "cupped" part of the ramp, they have holes right.

[shadowpuck]

i knew that somebody would chime in about the red ones! sean and johan have pics of red ones, and i've seen them in canada, but never down here. my uncle in canada bought some black ones in 1991. anyway.....if you look around for diy-ers that have metal ramps (that have lasted through till now), i would bet (not more than $1 USD tho) that they are a pecuilar shade of yellow, and probably came from montgomery ward or sears. i wasn't sentient at the time (just being born and all) so i really don't know the whole story behind that.

Even though they aren't TruCut ramps, I did find metal ramps at a local auto parts store a few years back. They even had an extension kit for lowered cars. I use them quite often and have no problems....

I was surprised when I found them since the previous stores I had visited that day only had Rhino ramps. I've used the Rhino ramps at many local tech sessions and they work fine as well - proper positioning is key, as with any lift, jack, etc....

[granit_silber]

I got mine from a friend, who got them from her dad. (see pic).
-ashley

[RockJock]

it would actually be extremely easy to force "brittle-failure" on any of these plastic/composite ramps (i.e., even with the weight of a Mini Cooper). it's simply a function of the surface area over which the load is distributed. the ramp does not have to be defective.

[Alexlind123]

i knew that somebody would chime in about the red ones! sean and johan have pics of red ones, and i've seen them in canada, but never down here. my uncle in canada bought some black ones in 1991. anyway.....if you look around for diy-ers that have metal ramps (that have lasted through till now), i would bet (not more than $1 USD tho) that they are a pecuilar shade of yellow, and probably came from montgomery ward or sears. i wasn't sentient at the time (just being born and all) so i really don't know the whole story behind that.

I have red metal ramps.

[ryan roopnarine]

I got mine from a friend, who got them from her dad. (see pic).
-ashley


the ramps in acyre's sig pic are the yellow ones i'm talking about.

[KenB]

Am I going to have to go take a picture of my red ones now?;)

[Qsilver7]

Am I going to have to go take a picture of my red ones now?;)
I have red metal ramps, too. But I got them from a co-worker whose father had passed away and they were cleaning out the garage. God knows how old they are...his father was in his mid 60s.

[Bill R.]

How much would you pay for a set of very strong metal ramps? Would many people out there pay much for a good set of ramps? A set like this for instance only not quite so wimpy. (http://www.restorationramps.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/ramps?opendocument&part=3)

I may have to make a set just to see how much material is in them and how much time it would take to produce them.

[632 Regal]

http://www.bimmer.info/~regal632/safety%20ramp%20rear.JPG

I didnt know you cant buy these things new! I dont think i would use a plastic ramp even if he did drive over them and bust it on the bottom of the car.

[HDhandyman]

How much would you pay for a set of very strong metal ramps? Would many people out there pay much for a good set of ramps? A set like this for instance only not quite so wimpy. (http://www.restorationramps.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/ramps?opendocument&part=3)

I may have to make a set just to see how much material is in them and how much time it would take to produce them.

I'd pay you a lot of money for a set of ramps that I felt really safe under. I'm really really paranoid about getting under there. I thought that the rhino ramps I have rated for 8,000 pounds was over doing it, and that made me feel safe, but now... I would pay a lot of money for my own safety. Like I said, I'd even purchase a used lift if I had the space.

[Qsilver7]

http://www.bimmer.info/~regal632/safety%20ramp%20rear.JPG

I didnt know you cant buy these things new! I dont think i would use a plastic ramp even if he did drive over them and bust it on the bottom of the car.
WOW...that's just what my ramps look like...but without the 2x10/2x12(?) and I'd watch out for that big bolt you're gonna run over when you back down the ramp! :p :D :p

[RockJock]

How much would you pay for a set of very strong metal ramps? Would many people out there pay much for a good set of ramps? A set like this for instance only not quite so wimpy. (http://www.restorationramps.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/ramps?opendocument&part=3)

I may have to make a set just to see how much material is in them and how much time it would take to produce them.

Bill - those look pretty sweet. as for cost, what do you think labor + materials would come to? (edit: i figure in the $400-$450 range?!) ... so much easier than jacking up your car, i guess you could even back your car up those ramps?!

BTW, did you check out the homemade wooden ones posted earlier in this thread?

[F4Phantom]

Just read about not being able to get steel ramps in the US. I know plastic can be strong but it comes no where near the strength to weight of metals. Also with regards to safety margins plastic would not have much my guess 10 or 20% more than the rating. Ihave some steel shackles rated at 4.5 tonne, but they will not break till over 30 tonne! Over here all the shops sell steel ones for around $60.

[632 Regal]

the boards are so the car "cant" roll back down being my own safety type deal when under the car. I thought of it when i first slid the boards up the ramp to get them out of my way.
WOW...that's just what my ramps look like...but without the 2x10/2x12(?) and I'd watch out for that big bolt you're gonna run over when you back down the ramp! :p :D :p

[nuclearfusion]

I'd pay you a lot of money for a set of ramps that I felt really safe under.

May I make a recommendation? How about building yourself a set of the 2"x10" version that we've all seen before. You can do a good job of these if you like. Here's a nicely upgraded version... a trip to a quality local lumberyard (ie: probably not Home Depot or the like) and you should be able to get DFir #2 & better 2x10's for reasonable prices. If you pick through the pile you will likely be able to find some very premium pieces. If not you can go all out and check the #1 pile. Cost might be more but they should be straighter, closer-grained, etc. Don't forget to check the 12, 14 and 16' lengths since they are sometimes much better lumber (remember you will be cutting this up anyway so long lengths doesn't really matter.) The main point here is you want them straight and properly dimensioned on every edge. No twist, shake, edge burn, mould, etc. Pre-drill (to avoid splitting since Douglas Fir is very hard and may split if you don't treat the connections properly or place them too close to the edges, etc. Glue (polyurethane construction adhesive is good for this - PL Premium or the like) and screw (with 3" SS Robertson-head screws which you predrilled and countersink) the ramps together, add some high-quality grip tape to the surface (the skateboard-type stuff is good for this since it comes in wide swatches). If you really want to make a point out of doing these to a high standard you can make the first layer out of 2x12" to give them an even more stable base. If you do this be prepared to add some $ to your lumber bill since high-grade DFir in these dimensions does start to get expensive.

That's a good set of ramps. Heavy, but well-built and built for a purpose. They will never fail in compression and if you buy good lumber to build them with, even as they dry they won't twist out of shape. Also they are long and that makes it easy to drive up them even if you have a low spoiler, etc.

You certainly don't need to build them out of DFir. Of course other commonly available lumber will also work. I am recommending this because it is very hard, very stiff, very strong (high fibre content, very little pulp) and dimensionally very stable. Also, if you buy high-grade DFir you tend to get quality milling, nice straight and square edges, etc. All of this is helpful for stability. Of course stainless screws aren't necessary either and in fact they are a bit of a pain to deal with since they are softer than common plated screws. However, they won't discolour anything, aren't reactive, etc. The grip tape is also not strictly necessary... However I'm unashamedly suggesting all this based on you not minding too much what it costs as long as you feel safe under it.

Now having said all that, ramps aren't the really good way to go about this and I don't recommend them - if you can avoid them, that's a good idea.

I'd suggest a quality hydraulic floor jack and set of four axle stands. This is in my opinion a much better, safer and more versatile solution. I'd recommend you have a chat with Steve D'Gerolamo (Tel 201-262-0412, email ultgar@optonline.net) at www.ultimategarage.com or visit his site and check out the quality AC Hydraulic jacks and axle stands that he carries.

Here for example is the DK20Q with the quick lift pedal. This is a great jack with super under-car clearance, higher-rated than we need for any E34, easy to use and maneuver, well-built and overall a nice piece of equipment. Also the AC Hydraulic axle stands he sells:

http://www.ultimategarage.com/dk20q-550.jpg (http://www.ultimategarage.com/hmach.html)
http://www.ultimategarage.com/3000n-plus-550.jpg (http://www.ultimategarage.com/hmach.html)

(click either photo to link to the page on his site detailing these products and the process he uses to tune and test each before shipping them)

Steve is a fellow BMW nut and has been selling BMW parts and tools and building custom garage workshops for a long time. He is a guru of this stuff and knows what's what with great clarity when it comes to BMW maintenance and upgrades. Not to mention he's approachable and keen to share what he knows and develops with enthusiasts like us.

Also, notice that Steve's AC Hydraulic jacks are not run-of-the-mill units. He personally inspects, tunes and carefully certifies and repacks all of them himself. They are selected, tuned units from a good quality manufacturer available at a good price from a dealer with integrity and a lot of spare parts. Also he's over there on the East Coast along with you so shipping might not be too bad.

I think that's a much better solution than ramps. Far easier to store and much more versatile.

Enjoy!

Fusion

p.s. - I have no affiliation with Steve D'Gerolamo or Ultimate Garage, just an appreciative customer for many years. Over the last 8 years he has impressed me as one of the good guys.

[liquidtiger720]

Those AC jacks are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Russell]

Steel ramps. Unknown quality

http://www.discountramps.com/automotive_car_ramps.htm

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

I use these:

http://www.shercomindustries.com/products/ezrisers.html

Made from re-cycled tires. Strong and easy to drive up unless the tires are wet...

[Tiger]

Wow... never seen that before... How much is it? Does it clear the lowered car bumper?

[Tiger]

Nice ramps but I still don't like how they did not crossbrace those legs... One leg that is not perfectly plumb will bend and fall.

[Tiger]

That's much better design...with crossbracing but still it is bolted... I'd weld that thing along with the bolts and also weld another bar going horizontally to tie all the braces.

[Anthony (M5 in Calgary)]

Wow... never seen that before... How much is it? Does it clear the lowered car bumper?

I think I paid ~$40CAD for them a few years back. The approach angle is a bit steep but I can drive my OE ride height M5 onto them without touching the spoiler. When I had Dinan springs (crap) I had to pull the car onto some 2x6 scraps first.